More On the Democratic Policy Divide

by: Chris Bowers

Wed Dec 24, 2008 at 14:32


Adding on to Matt's excellent discussion last night of the policy differences between the "left" and "centrist" wings of the Democratic Party, here are some more votes where Senate Republicans were united, but Senate Democrats were split (make sure to check out Matt's twelve votes and four other examples of policy differences):

Limiting Class Action Lawsuits
Republicans: 53-0
Democrats: 19-26

Bankruptcy Bill
Republicans: 55-0
Democrats: 20-24

This is neither a new development, nor specific to the Bush era. Here are some classics from President Clinton's time in office:

Welfare Reform:
Republicans: 53-0
Democrats: 25-21

NAFTA (Republicans were not unanimous, but still a landmark divide in the Democratic Party)
Republicans: 34-9
Democrats: 28-29

Telecommunications Deregulation
Republicans: 51-0
Democrats: 30-18

Defense of Marriage Act
Republicans: 52-0
Democrats: 33-14

And here is an important one to watch in the House--The Progressive Budget
Republicans: 0-191
Democrats: 98-131

More in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: More On the Democratic Policy Divide
The point is that there are real policy disagreements between the "left" and "centrist" wings of the Democratic Party. These disagreements are not confined to a couple of lunatic blogs, as the Senate Democratic caucus itself regularly splits down the middle on important pieces of legislation. Further, these disagreements are not confined to narrow areas of policy, as the examples Matt and I have provided include Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, trade, telecommunications, judicial and cabinet appointments, civil liberties, LGBT rights, tort reform, bankruptcy protection, defense spending, plus both personal and corporate welfare. Finally, virtually none of the examples we have given can justifiably be classified as pragmatic incrementalism versus an "all or nothing" idealism. This is because virtually all of the examples we have given actually moved public policy to the right of where it stood before the passage of the law or appointment in question. As such, it wasn't slower progressivism versus faster progressivism: it was less progressivism versus not-less progressivism.

It is worth nothing that while these disagreements pretty much run the gamut of policy areas, there is a the lack of similar examples on green issues. Labor and environmental groups are the most powerful progressive organizations around, and it shows not only in the more progressive appointments like Hilda Solis and Steven Chu, but also in Democratic unity on votes such as the Employee Free Choice Act and most green issues. Power matters, and progressives have it more in labor and green issues than they have it anywhere else.

As far as Obama's policies, his voting record indicates that he is, overall, slightly to the left of the Democratic congressional median. This, really, is the minimum to be expected of a Senator who spent one and a half of his four years in the Senate running for the Democratic nomination. As far as his major cabinet and staff appointments went, I was personally hoping for about one in three (roughly the percentage of self-identified progressive caucus members in the Democratic caucus in the House) to represent the left-wing of the Democratic Party as exemplified by the more than twenty public policy examples Matt and I have provided over the last day. Further, I was hoping that at least two senior staff, advisors or cabinet secretaries would represent the left-wing of the party in every major policy debate that will take place during the Obama White House.

I had no illusions about the left-wing of the party dominating during the Obama administration, but I was HOPE-ing for significant representation in every single major legislative and administration discussion that will take place. To my disappointment, his major staff and cabinet appointments, at least those with congressional voting records, are noticeably to the right of the Democratic Congress. Also, the left-wing of the party seems to compose about one in seven of the major appointments, nowhere near one in three.  Further, I fear there are entire areas of policy, most notably national security and foreign policy, where there are no representatives from the left-wing of the party at all.

I don't feel betrayed by any of this. Obama's voting record put him pretty much in the center of the party, rather than in its left or right wings. Further, he spent two years running against "partisanship" and in favor of "pragmatism," which is pretty obvious code for saying he will govern to the center. Also, in June, just after he locked up the nomination, he immediately emphasized his centrism on a range of issues, and even flipped his position on telecom immunity. I felt betrayed by Obama on the FISA re-write, since he actually flipped his position in that case, but otherwise he is doing pretty much what I expected. I HOPEd for more, and I was disappointed when those HOPEs failed to materialized. For anyone to feel betrayed, however, strikes me as strange, since Obama is making appointments quite in line with his campaign rhetoric.

My goal with this post is that the meme about left-wing criticism of incoming Obama personnel has no policy basis dies the same death as previous nonsensical claims about governmental personnel not mattering, and about the need to escape ideology in general. Personnel has a major impact on policy, everyone has an ideology, and there are wide-ranging, substantive policy disputes between the left and centrist wings of the Democratic Party. How all of this will manifest itself within the Obama administration remains to be seen. During the legislative and administrative process, policy inevitably both changes and becomes far more detailed than when it appears in campaign proposal form. The major players involved in these changes are the President, the congressional leadership, relevant congressional committees, White House senior staff, cabinet Secretaries and senior cabinet deputy secretaries.

It feels strange that I even had to point out that there are actual, wide-ranging policy differences between the left and centrist wings of the Democratic Party, but that really is the degree to which the left is trivialized in our national political discourse. There is a zombie narrative that the left doesn't actually disagree with centrist Democrats and DLC-types, but simply:

  • Cares too much about messaging and personality;
  • And / or doesn't understand policy;
  • And / or doesn't understand the differences between making incremental gains and no gains at all.
I would feel frustrated by having to fight against memes like these, but after struggling through arguments about personnel not mattering, or the need to abandon ideology in general, I am getting kind of used to it.

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I'm wondering (0.00 / 0)
and this is just speculation, but are the discrepancies in uniformity you demonstrate an artifact of the current political system?

I mean, the uniformity of the Republicans is legendary, but they have had the added discipline of working under a strong (in regards the ability to create party consensus) President for the last 8 years while the Dems have been wandering the wilderness.

I'm hoping we will see a change here.  With a strong, unifying President (hopefully) on the Dems side and the new wilderness-wandering, leaderless Repubs aimlessly trying to find their way we might see a reversal of this trend.

Perhaps a year from now we will be discussing the shattering of the Repub block and a unifying of the Dems behind many of these issues.

Again, just speculation.


I don't think so .. (0.00 / 0)
as far as the Republicans are concerned .. they'll only become truly leaderless .. and Obama can peel off a few votes here and there to get past the 60 thresold .. because if Obama can do that .. he can make Mitch McConnell irrelevant .. since the Senate is the key .. because you know McConnell will do everything in his power to screw up everything

[ Parent ]
The problem with .. (4.00 / 4)
the DLC types(specifically clowns like Evan Bayh and the two Senators from Arkansas).. is that they lie to themselves .. and to their constituents .. and what I mean by that is ... they were elected as Democrats .. only people that live under a rock .. or are brain dead .. don't have at least a minimum understanding of the difference between the two parties .. meaning the Democrats are pro-middle class(meaning pro-union and should have been against things like the hideous bankruptcy bill .. and welfare reform) .. and more skeptical of things like NAFTA .. and the bank bailout .. but people like Bayh .. and the two Senators from Arkansas are clearly fooling people .. because they claim to be Democrats .. when they are more clearly what used to be called Rockefeller(or Eisenhower) Republicans .. and it is especially galling in the case of Evan Bayh .. considering who is father is

Things change (4.00 / 2)
Rockefeller Republicans are now Democrats and Dixiecrats are now Republicans.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
I know Rockefeller Republicans are now .. (4.00 / 1)
Democrats .. DLC Democrats are what they are .. although the DLC includes a lot of hawkish Democrats too .. the neo-cons that remained Democrats I guess you could say

[ Parent ]
Neocons aren't the only hawks (4.00 / 1)
Sure, we have a nominal two-party system.  But what we have in reality are groups that form coalitions before the election rather than after the election as in a parliamentary system.  There's more variety on the left because there's a clearer Republican identity and Democrats are a coalition of diverse groups that don't want to be Republicans.

Let's not get too caught up on labels.  Politics demands attention to the interaction between these different groups more than categorizing them.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
is rice not progressive? (0.00 / 0)
i don't know much about her, but i feel like i've heard people categorize her as progressive.  if so, she would be a lone(ly) progressive voice on fopo/defense policy.  

your point about areas of relative progressive strength (labor, environment) is a great one, and really helps to explain obama's cabinet.  seems like healthcare might be another similar area (w/ nurses and doctors' organizations, as well as labor and small businesses being in favor of reform), and would explain why daschle would be selected for that post (not that he is super progressive, but he is fairly so on healthcare, and has a lot of clout that will likely help with the passage of a healthcare reform plan.

i think that, more than any other area, i'm disappointed about obama's foreign policy choices, specifically his decision to retain gates at defense.  he ran to the left of clinton on foreign policy, and has not sent the right signals up to now.    


A post that says nothing about Obama's policy agenda... (4.00 / 2)
A post that says nothing about Obama's policy agenda is supposed to put to death "the meme about left-wing criticism of incoming Obama personnel has no policy basis"

Seriously dude, what the fuck?

Criticizing personnel makes sense, but not nearly in the context it's taken to here. Legislation in the senate will be based around convincing moderate republicans. Legislation in the house may be different but still partly dependent on pleasing blue dogs. Deal with it and move the fuck on. Such is life, Obama's cabinet appointments don't change that nor does it change the agenda he's laid out.


Obama Doesn't Want To Use The Bully Pulput (0.00 / 0)
Will you support primary challenges against Blue Dog members?

I am totally in favor of health care reform.
I am diametrically opposed to health insurance reform.


[ Parent ]
There is no legislation (4.00 / 2)
The information you will find on Obama's website is not legislation. It is, almost invariarably, outlines of legislation that has yet to be written, much less proposed to Congress. Even these outlines are subject to signficant change once the process begins. Members of Congress, in particular, will be making their own proposals. Those will also change, mix with, or be added onto, what Obama is proposing.

In advance of the process that will produce actual legislation, I am looking at the players who will be involved in the process, and the past disagreements that have occurred on policy in the party. Everything else at this point is speculation, unless you somehow have access to actual draft legislation that the Obama team is actually currently under neogtiations with Congress.


[ Parent ]
We have a de facto multi-party system (4.00 / 4)
I am a strong believer in the notion that the Democratic Party functions more as a coalition than as an actual party.  Frankly, I think that anyone who hopes for progressive hegemony within a Democratic majority party is about as naively idealistic as someone who thought that marching into Baghdad would lead to ticker-tape parades and an adoring Iraqi populace.

One thing that is important to note is that progressives have different values from centrists but centrists have different values from Republicans.  The term "DINO" makes for a convenient war cry, but it is misleading.  Deals can be made with centrists.

Theoretically, democracy privileges the beliefs of the median voter. Of course, that is only if there is a single axis of issues.  So, while the center theoretically holds power in a democracy, it is possible for the extremes to leverage their power out of proportion to their actual numbers when there are multiple issues at stake.  I contend that progressives have failed in that regard by not acting as a coherent bloc to trade votes.

Primarying Democrats in the centrist bloc is one way for progressives to leverage their power, but it's not necessarily about replacing DLCers with true-blue Dems.  Progressives need to be willing to attack centrists Democrats who have a tenuous hold on their seats and threaten to make the centrists irrelevant by granting conservatives a majority.  This willingness to play for high stakes and engage in mutually assured destruction is the successful Club for Growth strategy.

But leveraging this power is useless without a plan to utilize that power.  Its a very simple trade-off in power-sharing agreements.  As noted, the left has had the most success in labor and green issues.  The proper strategy is for progressives to narrowly focus on a few additional issues in exchange for giving in to the centrists on other issues.

I think that progressives will have the most success on health care, which has ties to labor issues.  And here is where it gets a bit sticky for some.  Obama has said that health care is a priority.  If progressives want to maximize leftward movement on health care, then there has to be a credible threat that the left is willing to scuttle a health care plan for being insufficiently progressive and leave the status quo in place, even if the flawed plan will improve the lots of many Americans.  Just take a look at the auto bailout to see how a minority can influence things.


Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


I like your thinking on the multi-party aspects (4.00 / 4)
but I disagree a bit on the health care suggestion.

I think the all-or-nothing approach failed in the 90's in regards health care and exiled it to the weeds for a decade.  Now you might argue (perhaps validly) that the timing wasn't right and the factions within the parties were not favorable at the time.

I think health care is the single most important progressive issue of our time.  I think the approach needed is one of inevitability.  Make the centrists (and possibly even right) believe it is going to occur regardless of their input and that they are better positioned being in favor than opposed.  Then throw them a few bones to appease their egos and ram it through.

I'm afraid the threat of scuttling health care is too dangerous to use.  It isn't much of a bluff if you're afraid to be called on it.  And if the centrists call us on it do we need to wait another decade before trying again?


[ Parent ]
There Is No Leadership (0.00 / 0)
The "all-or-nothing approach" works when the leader of the majority party (president) uses the bully pulpit.

I am totally in favor of health care reform.
I am diametrically opposed to health insurance reform.


[ Parent ]
It depends (4.00 / 3)
If you ask me, I would suggest following Howard Dean's incrementalist strategy proposed in 2004 and echoed by Obama this year.  But there are some people who think that any health care plan is a failure if it isn't single-payer.  For people who feel that way, a "my way or the highway" approach probably maximizes the chance of it happening.

There are some bones to be thrown out there to appease non-progressives, but they are going to piss off some progressives.  One thing that I suspect might be necessary to the passage of meaningful health care reform would be to not have the government cover abortions.  There are some people on the left who would throw a fit over that compromise.

The other thing that can be done to push forward health care is to trade votes in other areas.  One trade would be to give Obama leeway in Afghanistan (while still insisting on withdrawal from Iraq).  If Bush had offered the left carte blanche on health care in exchange for full support of the war in Iraq, it's a deal I might have been willing to make.  Bush make any such deals and instead seemed to relish thumbing his nose at his opponents, so his reliance on a narrow base of support led to a stunning collapse when things didn't work out so well.

My main point though is that ramming things through won't work because progressives are outnumbered by non-progressives, but that doesn't mean that the alternative is incrementalist BS.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
We agree on the issue more than disagree (4.00 / 2)
I am open to an incrementalist approach on healthcare as long as it starts off with a large stride.  Single-payer may be the goal, but need not be the initial step.  Full coverage for all must be in the first step, we can have incremental steps later to reach an ideal, or at least better, system.

I also agree on your interpretations of "bones."  I intentionally left that vague as there is a lot I'd be willing to trade away to get everyone covered (although I'm not sure about carte blanche war... although he seemed to get that for nothing anyway).

I know we are outnumbered and can't ram anything through alone.  What I meant was that Obama needs to use some of his political capital, combined with enough wheeling and dealing, to build momentum toward apparent inevitability.  Maybe starting slow and working out from his current support, adding outside muscle (unions, automakers and other larger companies looking to pass on their health care costs, etc) and building a multi-faceted network of support will convince many this thing will happen so encouraging bandwagon support.

I don't know, I just don't want to blow this opportunity.  


[ Parent ]
Obama is the wrong target (0.00 / 0)
i think what you're describing is already happening to a degree. i'd be very surprised if some kind of health legislation doesn't get passed - though we've all seen Reid's Senate snatch defeat from the jaws of victory enough to not to be too complacent about that. if it doesn't, it will be taken as a significant failure of Obama's Presidency, and weaken him on a host of other issues.

the question is, what kind of bill? will it be one providing actual health care? or just a public subsidy of insurance companies?

and i don't think Obama really cares all that much how that fight turns out. he'll get the victory he seeks either way. we've already seen signals that they're willing to trade away the public insurance option. without at least that much of a starting point, there's no place for later increments to start. not all incremental approaches are equal. that conceptual barrier has to be punctured now, or it never will, absent some kind of huge leftward shift in American politics that is, to put it mildly, unlikely.

the only place that pressure for public health care exists now is in the House. without at least a rump faction in the Senate that's big enough to deny passage, and willing to deny passage, the House is not enough.

the left has to stop pre-compromising. there's no reason for anybody to negotiate with a group that gives up on its own before you even begin.

not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.


[ Parent ]
regionalism (4.00 / 1)
I think it would be useful to correlate the Dem votes with certain demographic factors.

I've claimed before that the big divide in the country is between the empty and the populated states. Dems from the empty states have more in common with Republicans from the same areas than they do with big city liberals.

This ideological split was obvious during the heyday of the Dixiecrats when the "Democratic" South was an independent block when it came to domestic policy. I suspect that there is a similar dynamic at work now.

Is John Tester a "Democrat" or a member of the farm/mining faction? Which influences him more?

The problem with having a big tent is that it covers many who really have little in common. The GOP has always represented the business community and now that agriculture is a big business it covers them as well.

The old time populists who could be found in the farm belt are just a memory.

Policies not Politics


And we are still kidding ourselves. (4.00 / 1)
The notion that a Democratic majority means something is a myth. Thanks for this wakeup call. We are not what we used to be.

Democratic Way (4.00 / 2)
It's not a new phenomenon that there are real policy disagreements between the "left" and "centrist" wings of the Democratic Party.  This has always been the case long before there was a DLC or Blue Dogs or New Democrats or The Third Way or Boll Weevils or whatever they are calling themselves this month.  Such is the state of the Democratic Party.

The post makes a strong argument for why it matters to those of us on the left to work to elect more and better democrats and to support ActBlue.  But until we are able to get better Democrats elected, it is what it is.

If by some miracle Dennis Kucinich had won the presidency, and he filled his cabinet with a progressive all-star team, he would still be facing a Senate where he would have to appeal to Republicans and a Congress where he would have to please Blue Dogs to move to his side. That's the reality.  And because it would be rather easy for some to paint Kucinich and his administration as a bunch of crazed liberals, it would be difficult to get anything accomplished.  

Yes, personnel does matter.  Despite all the rhetoric, what impact that personnel will have on policy remains to be seen.  But thus far we can see how Obama's personnel choices are being publicly perceived.  Some have tried in vain to portray Obama as a wide-eyed liberal, but the majority doesn't see him that way.  Some have attempted to paint Obama as right of center, but that too the majority isn't buying.  Some have tried a Clintonazation of Obama, vilifying him and everything and everyone around him to bring him down, yet Obama enters the White House with extraordinarly high approval ratings and a mandate. That makes it much more difficult for centrists and Republicans in Congress to vote against his policies.

 


America Loved Bill Clinton (4.00 / 2)
That didn't mean Bill was right.
That didn't prevent republicans from impeaching him.

The centrists and republicans in Congress can vote against Barack's policies [which are already compromised] anytime they want, because he refuses to use the bully pulpit.

I am totally in favor of health care reform.
I am diametrically opposed to health insurance reform.


[ Parent ]
Bill is no Barack (4.00 / 1)
...
More than eight in 10, or 82 percent, of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Wednesday approve of the way Obama is handling his presidential transition.

That approval is up 3 percentage points from when CNN asked the same question at the beginning of December. Fifteen percent of those surveyed disapprove of the way the president-elect is handling his transition, down 3 points from the last poll.

Obama's approval is higher than George W. Bush eight years ago. Bush had a 65 percent approval rating during his transition, and Bill Clinton was at 67 percent in 1992.

"Barack Obama is having a better honeymoon with the American public than any incoming president in the past three decades. He's putting up better numbers, usually by double digits, than Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan or either George Bush on every item traditionally measured in transition polls," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director.
...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI...

As for the bully pulpit, I wouldn't be so confident that Obama will refuse to use it once he is in the White House.



[ Parent ]
I Am Very Confident That (4.00 / 1)
President Obama will twist the arms of "progressives" including members of the Congressional Black Caucus.

I am totally in favor of health care reform.
I am diametrically opposed to health insurance reform.


[ Parent ]
Great piece! (0.00 / 0)
Keep them coming.
 The figures showing the split in the Democratic caucus are eye-opening. We will probably have a Republican-Blue Dog coalition through most of next year.
Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have sold us out every time, and I am afraid that it is wishful thinking to hope they will become Democrats all of a sudden and stop delivering to the Republicans virtually everything they ask for.
We must keep making the case for the truth, as you are doing here.

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