Leo Gerard-Steelworkers President On Bill Moyers Journal

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Jan 11, 2009 at 08:56


On Friday, Bill Moyers had the International President of the United Steelworkers, Leo Gerard, on as his guest for the greater part of the hour.  The Steelworkers are the largest industrial union in North America. As Moyers said in his introduction, "They're the dominant union in paper, forestry products, steel, aluminum, tires and rubber, glass, chemicals and petroleum." It's remarkable, really, how rare it is to see a union leader on national tv, and telling that it was public tv, at that.  Unions are far and away the largest democratic institutions in civil society, yet their elected leadership is rarely heard from directly.  This was a welcome exception.

First off, about Hilda Solis as Secretary of Labor:

BILL MOYERS: So we have a new president, a new administration, and a new secretary of labor. And I know you have been excited by Obama's nomination of Congresswoman Solis. Why the enthusiasm for her in particular?

LEO GERARD: I think from my point of view, I can relate to her because I grew up like she did. I grew up in a in a union household where my dad made very little money. And when he needed the drill bits for the mine or he needed what they called oilers, which is the rubber-wear you work they took it off his paycheck. Congresswoman Solis grew up in a union family. Her parents were immigrants, didn't make a lot of money. So my personal thing is that

BILL MOYERS: She's one of you.

LEO GERARD: Well, not necessarily just one of me. But she can feel what I feel. So and that way there's a there's a relation there. But through her career she hasn't been an extremist on either side. She's been for working people. She's been for good jobs. She's been for good pay. She's been for opening the green jobs. She's been for making sure that workers are going to get trained and get an opportunity to get into the good jobs. So all of the things that she's fought for are the things that ordinary Americans would be supporting.

Paul Rosenberg :: Leo Gerard-Steelworkers President On Bill Moyers Journal
And about the contrast between Solis and Obama's trade representative-no punches pulled:

BILL MOYERS:What does it say to you that Obama names Congresswoman Solis, a real advocate of labor, and then he appoints as his nominates for his trade representative the former mayor of Dallas, who was a lobbyist for many of the companies that benefit from NAFTA? Seems to me that he has put two contradictory personalities and philosophies next to each other.

LEO GERARD:To be a bit facetious, I think he made one good decision and one bad decision. But it I think it goes to what he's always told us. He wants counter-views. He wants to be able to see people debate in front of him. Then he'll make the choice.

BILL MOYERS:And you're not worried about this

LEO GERARD:Absolutely I'm worried about that.

BILL MOYERS:You are worried.

LEO GERARD:I am worried about that. I think that there is no way that the current global agenda of America can be sustained for America. It's simple as that. And we've got to find a way to move into the kind of trade that brings in balanced trade. I've been panicked almost, to tell you the truth. And some people are tired of hearing my mouth run about it. We're accumulating now roughly $700 billion to $800 billion a year of trade deficit. And if you continue on the same curve during President Obama's first term, we'll hit a trillion dollar a year trade deficit. How do you sustain an economy like that? The accumulated trade debt that America has is in excess of $5 trillion. The interest on that debt or the asset sales that we have to make to protect that debt are almost $600 billion a year. Do you know what we could do with $600 billion? We could have national healthcare. We could make sure every kid that wanted to go to college could afford to go to college. So we've got to start reducing that. It took us 25 years to get there. It's going to take us a long time to get back. But that means we got to change direction.

It's truly remarkable how 25 years ago Ronald Reagan presided over the rapid transition of America from the world's leading creditor nation to the world's leading debtor nation, and barely a word is ever said about it.  Yet, it is one of the most fundamental economic facts of life in America today, and for the last quarter century.  If a liberal Democrat had been in charge when that happened, I somehow think that quite a ruckus would have been raised on the right.  Instead, virtual silence then, and habitual disregard and neglect ever since.  This imbalance never was sustainable, and it's now quite possible that the current economic crisis could bring about a day of reckoning.  But it's not the financial types who are talking about this.  It's a union leader.  Someone concerned about those who work for a living.

On the "free market":

LEO GERARD: .... We've got 25 years of this ideology that says don't interfere in the free market. And people never understood there is no such thing as a free market. All markets are regulated. If you took that and you put it out on the street, I'm sure that if I had a big, big powerful vehicle I could plow through New York without stoplights. But we put stoplights in so that the big trucks don't run over the small trucks, you know? And so we need to go back to the kind of meaningful regulation of the workplace, of collective bargaining,

What was striking here, to me, was the utter naturalness with which Gerard dismissed free market BS.  You don't run a traffic system without regulations, why in the world would you think you could run a market system that way?  This is a perfectly natural sort of analogy to make, and it is, more than anything, a matter of class and sociology that such an analogy is so seldom heard on tv.

Ordinary people cannot live their lives without rules and regulations.  They cannot cross the street safely without them. One of the first responsibilities they have as parents is teaching their children about how to be safe, about abiding by these rules and regulations.  This is not a matter of freely choosing one or another political ideology.  This is about something as fundamental as breathing to stay alive.  Oh, and speaking of breathing, here's something else Gerard said....

LEO GERARD: The way I grew up. Growing up in my hometown, it's where I became an environmentalist. When I grew up in my hometown it was the pollution capital of North America.

BILL MOYERS: Where is that?

LEO GERARD: Celebrity, Ontario, Canada. And there were days where I ran track. I was 17 years old before I understood you could actually run without sucking in sulfur in the air. I grew up three miles from a smelter. And I didn't know any better And when I became an adult I said to myself it doesn't have to be this way. And for all my years growing up, the mining company would say, well, you got to have a choice between these good jobs and a little bit of pollution. The reality is we didn't have to have a choice. We either are going to have both a clean environment, or good jobs, in the long run, we'll have neither.

Working people have always been the most environmentally exploited and oppressed.  They are the most natural environmental leaders.  And the more that this is reflected in labor leaders like Leo Gerard, the better off all of us will be.

Is it too late for a change of direction?  Gerard is no defeatist, but he's not really sure:

LEO GERARD: Well, look it, I'm almost sorry to be able to say this to you. But a week ago I got up for the first time in my adult lifetime and I said to my wife, I said, I don't know if we can save this thing.

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean?

LEO GERARD: There's so many problems. And the other side is so resentful of any change that President Obama and his team have to be strong. And they can't let themselves get pushed off their agenda. If they do, if he compromises too much, the economy won't recover quick enough. And we're going to continue to spiral down. We now got a whole generation of people that may not be able to afford to send their kids to college. One of my best friends in our in our building...

BILL MOYERS: In Pittsburgh?

LEO GERARD:In our building in Pittsburgh, he went to college and came out of college owing no money by working in a mill during the summertime. Now if he got his son to work in the mill in the summertime and his son graduated, he'd still owe $50,000. That's twice my first mortgage, you know? So that the time to act is now. It has to be bold. It has to be job creating. It has to be focused on putting America back to work. And we need it to be done.

Think of that: the difference between one generation and the next: The father works his way through college by working in the mill during summertime.  The son, doing the same, would end up owing $50,000-twice Leo Gerard's first mortgage.  That's just a stupendous shift of financial burden onto the working class in just one generation's time.  And in that one generation, the national GDP has more than doubled since 1983 ($5.4 trillion in 2000 dollars in 1983 to $11.5 trillion in 2007).  There was nothing natural or inevitable in that stupendous shift of financial burden onto the shoulders of the working class while total economic activity doubled.  Yet, it almost never even gets mentioned, even though the vast majority of people live with that reality every single day of their lives.

Can you spell "disconnect"?

Gerard also had a great deal to say about the Employee Free Choice Act, and the corporate lobbying campaign against it. But you should  check the whole thing out for yourselves.  Here's just one thing he said to whet your appetite:

LEO GERARD: ....Almost every country in the world has a higher rate of unionization than America. And 70 countries in the world, you can join the union by what would be the equivalent of card check.

But you shouldn't just check him out on Bill Moyers Journal.  You should also check him out at Huffington Post.   Here's a taste of just a few of them.

"Congress Bails out Those Who Shower Before Work, but not Those who Shower After Work":

Congress drove the Big Three CEOs out of Washington, D.C. last week, ordering them not to return with their tin cups until they could guarantee their companies would be viable after a $25 billion bailout.

Just days later, Citigroup, a bank that had already received a $25 billion bailout in October, held its hands out for more. Within 48 hours, federal officials approved giving the bank another $20 billion and providing backing for $306 billion in its risky loans and securities. Even though Citigroup was failing just weeks after getting its first government bailout, Congress didn't subject its CEO to the public lecturing and demands for business plans that it did the Big Three.

The message here could not be more clear: Washington will bailout out those who shower before work but not those who shower afterwards.

"America's Choice: Destruction or Construction":

From sea to shining sea, America is suffering.

She is, however, afflicted with an avoidable condition she brought on herself, like a hangover. Only this one's interminable and internationally contagious.

She did it by choosing over the past 30 years to establish an economy that worshiped avarice. That decision has destroyed her financial system and taken down with it much of the world's.

Now America must decide whether to be swayed by the greedy urging her to continue basing her economy on the destructive policies of deregulation, de-unionization,  globalization and privatization or to construct a new financial system focused on industry and profit shared by the workers who produce it.

....

In the song "America the Beautiful," from which the lines "from sea to shining sea, come, lyricist Katharine Lee Bates counseled in the second verse, "America! America! God mend thine every flaw."

Clearly, this greed-based economy is a flaw. It was created by covetous humans. It must be mended by Americans of better grace, people Katharine Lee Bates described as those, "Who more than self their country loved."

America's workers must seize back control of their country and wrest back determination of its priorities. They must re-regulate the financial markets and remove the onerous restrictions placed on unions to prevent organization of new workplaces and bargaining of new contracts to raise worker salaries and benefits.

But, most immediately, America's workers must insist Congress immediately pass an economic renewal package that will reinvigorate Main Streets across the nation. This is essential to prevent a prolonged and excessively painful deep recession resulting from the housing bubble collapsing.

This public investment has two purposes. It will stimulate the economy by providing jobs. In addition, it will strengthen America's manufacturing competitiveness in the international marketplace...

But let's work for realization of Katharine Lee Bates' final verses:

   "America! America" God shed his grace on thee Till selfish gain no longer stain The banner of the free!"

"Toyota Republicans Should Cut Their Own Pay":

President Bush took to the TV Friday to announce that he wouldn't walk past the financial crash of America's Big Three automakers and do nothing to save their lives.

Refusing resuscitation, Bush said, would be irresponsible during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

A week earlier, 31 GOP Senators, mostly from Southern states, voted to avert their eyes and allow American auto companies to die. They opposed $14 billion in federal loans for GM and Chrysler, revealing that their loyalty lies not with America, not even with their own states, but with South Korea and Germany and Japan.

They are Toyota Republicans.

Toyota has non-union manufacturing plants in Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi and Texas - states whose senators led the GOP quest to slay the Big Three American auto manufacturers - Richard Shelby, R-Ala.; Mitch McConnell, R-Ky, and John Cornyn, R-Tx. Here's the Republican from Mississippi, Sen. Thad Cochran, explaining why he'd vote against the loans, "Things have changed. It's not just the Big Three anymore," he said, pointing out that Nissan and Toyota employ more Mississippians than General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. But, he said, the foreign companies would not share "in the benefits of that automobile bailout program."

No. But Mississippi did give Nissan and Toyota more than $650 million to entice them to locate in the state. GM, Ford and Chrysler didn't share in those benefits, Sen. Cochran.

The Toyota Republicans are all for helping the rich with tax breaks and shelters, and they're all for aiding foreign auto manufacturers with billions worth of tax forgiveness and government-paid infrastructure improvements.

But their disdain for the working class couldn't be clearer as they organized defeat of loans to the Big Three under this command: "Republicans should stand firm and take their first shot against organized labor."

....

Sen. Cochran just didn't think it was right for the U.S. government to aid its auto industry. But apparently he's fine with foreign governments providing subsidies to the transplant automakers in his state. And, apparently, he's okay with spending state and federal money to help foreign automakers locate manufacturing plants in the U.S....

The Toyota Republicans want the wages of American workers pulled down. To them, UAW members making an average of $28 an hour, accounting for less than 10 percent of the cost of a car, are earning just too much money.

The Toyota Republicans did not, however, make that claim about the white collar workers on Wall Street who got this country into the financial fiasco that led to the dire circumstances for automakers. And not just for American ones. Domestic car sales declined by 40 percent last month, but Asian producers' sales dropped too - by 35 percent.

The average salary of white collar, Wall Street employees -- workers in "securities, commodity contracts and investments" -- is four times that of those laboring in the rest of the economy. Remember, these are the guys who are so smart that they took down Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Washington Mutual, AIG and Lehman Brothers - in less than a year - and ultimately required $700 billion from taxpayers to bail them out....

And at no time did those Toyota Republicans suggest that they should cut their own salary or top-notch, government-paid health benefits or pensions. Like the reckless speculators on Wall Street, Congress bears responsibility for the crisis condition of the American economy because it deregulated financial markets.

In 2002, during a downturn in Japan, the House of Councillors reduced the pay of Diet lawmakers by 10 percent, and ended the transportation allowance, portrait-painting and pension given senior lawmakers.

If the Toyota Republicans believe the Japanese way of pay is so great for autoworkers, they should first impose it on themselves.

That's a voice that America needs to hear a whole lot more of.


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Everybody Knows (4.00 / 3)
This is fabulous and it just so strongly reminded me of the lyrics from the Leonard Cohen song, "everybody Knows."

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows that the good guys lost
Everybody knows that the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Every body knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their dog or their father died

Good thing that "Democracy is Coming to the USA."  It is well past time to fix the problems everybody knows about but nobody talks about.


The Wall Street line (4.00 / 1)
My favorite line is:

Everybody wants a box of chocolates or a long stem rose

This is the hidden agenda, the sublimation, in Freudian terms, which seems to be driving a good half of Obama's appointments, perhaps even Obama himself. (I gotta admit, though, that he seems much less afflicted than Clinton was.)

It's refreshing to see that Leo Gerard knows, as everyone below the rank of sergeant know, that in the end you gotta work for the shit you get. Otherwise, really, really bad things happen.


[ Parent ]
Misquoting Leonard Cohen (0.00 / 0)
Make that: And a long stem rose. Much more effective in the original than in my misremembered version. Apologies to the poet.

[ Parent ]
Cohen (4.00 / 2)
The man is first and foremost a poet.  Strangely, given the post about Girard's accent, Leonard Cohen is Canadian.
His voice is memorable but the words are the best.

[ Parent ]
off topic (0.00 / 0)
My wife and I spent the whole interview trying to figure out Gerard's accent. We almost got it, but had to look up his bio online - Sudbury Ontario.

We should have been better at it since my wife is an (ex)Canadian. I do think his upbringing comes across in his low key reasonable approach to things.

Canadians don't seem much given to podium pounding...

Policies not Politics


Thank you for posting this (4.00 / 4)
I'll have to watch the interview.

Relatedly, I was watching c-span and they had a "debate" on Obama's economic plan between two (young) economists; one from Heritage, and one from center for american progress. A republican caller called in and asked a good question and made a good point. His question was, did our trade policy towards China contribute to the current recession, in that we have moved good paying manufacturing jobs overseas and continued to replace them with retail jobs that do not pay much. His point was, how are stimulus checks going to help Americans if people use them to buy products made in China. Won't that just help the Chinese?

The two fine young ideologically opposed economists (not sure either of them had ever ever ever had to worry about money in their lives) both agreed whole-heartedly; the (republican) guy was off his rocker. Free trade is always good. Period. The CAP guy even admitted that yes, the stimulus would help China! He gave the same tepid response about looking at our trade policy with China (lipservice must be paid you know), but it was very clear that the scenario the caller brought up, which as you say Paul, is actually the process of America going from a creditor (trade surplus) to a debtor (trade deficit) nation, was not a concern to him.

The panacea of eduction and job training is such a false dream. Since our political class is in agreement that we're not going to have an industrial base (and importantly, a unionized industrial base) in this country anymore, the only solution I see is to unionize our 21st century factories. That is, the Walmarts, the Lowes, the Barnes and Nobles, the Best Buys, the Krogers, the McDonalds. These are the new steel mills and coal mines. They are the only places providing enough jobs for people (the "knowledge-based" economy will never provide enough jobs...we can't all be scientists and radiologists) and therefore we need to make them jobs that people can raise a family on and retire with. That's why I am so very very nervous about this year and passing the employee free choice act. I think that single piece of legislation may have more to do with how our country fares in the long run than any trillion dollar stimulus. It (and getting back to a truly progressive tax system) is what's going to allow our nation to get back to sound footing so we don't have to rely on credit cards and selling each other houses (as Krugman pointed out) for income. It's a scary fight and a scary time. I just hope people realize how important unions are to our well-being going forward.


Unions Are Also (4.00 / 5)
--as Gerard's comments indicate--the only places where we're likely to nurture an intellectual project that's aimed at what really ails us all as a people, because they're the only place where we're likely to even think about what really ails us all as a people.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Trade = More Complicated Than FT vs. Protectionism (4.00 / 1)
Far be it from me to work out a Grand Progressive Theory of Trade here.  The economics, politics, foreign relations, and sociology are far more than what I can hack.  But I'll offer up some points to consider:

1. It's not as much our trade policy vis a vis China or any other nation as much as it is the internal domestic economic policies and foreign trade policies of nations like China.  They are running neo-mercantilist trade policy regimes, which has undercut much of our ability to complete in high-capital intensive industries (where the capital is not solely intellectual capital).

2. Comparative advantage exists.  We should understand this.  But we should acknowledge that trade regime between two nations or throughout the world in multilateral economic relations is as simple as the basic precepts as theory in application.  And we should know that comparative advantage is a two-sided coin.  In this, we do have a comparative advantage, where the theory would suggest, in high-intellectual capital industry and occupations (note that this can include blue- and white-collar work).  However much we might be pissing this away in a multilateral world like we did in short order with normal capital-intensive industries, this is the "education and training" mantra in root.  But the "education and training" solution is neither short- not medium-term.  It is VERY long-term.  That's why our broad regime of domestic and foreign trade policy has been an unmitigated disaster.  That, and the belief, either intellectually dishonest or ignorant, that some form of industrial policy has no place in this all.

3. Industrial manufacturing is doing OK in some areas and in some industries - the key has been in terms of size.  Large, heavy manufacturing is not doing very well.  It's heavy in capital intensity, and we have a huge comparative disadvantage here.  This is another topic though, I think.  I am one of those people that reads economics to apply to our domestic and international economic policies to call for some industrial policy activity.  Actually, Paul Krugman's Nobel-winning work on regional economies of scale, even coming from a guy who is at his purest inclined towards free trade (in the pure sense of the conception, not necessarily in terms of actual policy), inspires this.  

4. The knowledge economy paradigm needs to be rethought in terms of industries and not just occupations.  The idea, as you point out, that we'll all have white-collar occupations is foolish.  And dangerous.  We're going to have a mix of white-collar, professional, blue-collar, and mixed-skill workers.  And they'll be in differing industries.  It's time we start thinking about building not only a productive workforce in general but also in developing industries - and here's the rub...

5. We need to enable worker capture of economic gains.  This is about bargaining power.  The economy grows (in aggregate, overall terms), but workers do not capture gains in this - which tracks somewhat with productivity gains (though productivity is not as good as what it could be, because of a number of factors, some methodological in study and others in reality).  Only tightening labor markets and increased worker bargaining power will provide the real bottom-up stimulus we need.  It's the institutionalizing of increasing the roots of aggregate demand that will get our economy working again.  Yes, I'm talking about massive increases in unionization, union density, and worker power.  

I contend that EFCA should almost be a higher priority than stimulus.  Stimulus is a one-time, easily evaporatable thing.  EFCA is longer-term and more root-cause for our economic problems.  

6. We have as big an industrial problem as what we do trade.  Look at where the bulk of our finance and investment are: it's not in real productive capacity; it's in FIRE (Finance, Insurace, Real Estate).  This speak to what I mentioned above about emphasizing industry over occupation in the way we structure a new economy.  

Obviously, economic priorities are totally messed up.  So that means policy is just plain wrongheaded.  Not only in its results, but in its fundamental approach.  The key here is worker bargaining power.  Wealth gets distributed broadly, which actually creates more overall wealth, allowing wealth to accumulate and actually trickle-up, so to speak.  Then, investment follows a more reality-based path.  

Like I said, I can't offer up a unified theory here.  Just some observations.  Take them for what you will.  Sorry if they're cryptic and vague.  I'm tired and it's Sunday night and I'm just sitting down with my computer for the day.


[ Parent ]
Little thing, transcription error. (4.00 / 1)
We either are going to have both a clean environment, or good jobs, in the long run, we'll have neither.

If he misspoke cause I dont have the original but Im sure he meant:We either are going to have both a clean environment , or and good jobs, or in the long run we'll have neither.  

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


Glad you wrote about this, Paul. (4.00 / 1)
I watched part on Friday.  Gerard is excellent.

Saw it too and been thinking about it since... (4.00 / 2)
We who like to call ourselves progressives spend a whole lot of trying to figure out the magic way to talk to folks and spread the word...No magic at all as Leo Gerard obviously knows.  Gerard quite simply and persuasively spoke of the need for real economic policies that reflect the needs of working men and women.  Period.  And this is exactly what the Democratic party has avoided doing for the past 30 years.  That's how we end the culture wars, revitalize the party and, most importantly, carry out a true restoration of America. Gerard gets it.   It's plain economics...and its been missing in action.  Funny, how it seems so fresh and inspiring and almost revolutionary when we hear it...that's how far we've strayed.  

And please, please, please give whatever you can manage to the unapologetically progressive labor-lawyer, writer Tom Geoghegan for the IL-5th.   He's another one who never lost his way.  Let's get him elected and then find more like him.   Just go to ActBlue.com, he's name is at the top of the page as the "hottest" candidate.


oops (0.00 / 0)
"his" name (not he's name) is at the top of the page...I hate when I blow it like this..I'm a teacher for goodness' sake)

[ Parent ]
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