Well.. (0.00 / 0)

I think it's to Obama's benefit to keep reaching out to people from the other side despite it not working. It helps him politically. The Dems can pass any bill they want without being overly partisan.

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by: platanoman @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 16:34:29 PM UTC

Why? (4.00 / 3)

Republicans are modifying and thereby weakening the plan without providing a single vote.  Take out the $140 billion in corporate tax cuts.  The banks, etc, have already looted us out of at least $2 trillion.  No more for business.  Not a penny.  Put it into infrastructure, the environment and health care.  That's a change I can really believe in.

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by: David Kowalski @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 17:31:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Or it is masterful negotiation on Obama's part (4.00 / 2)

Obama has reached out with the Olive branch and concessions, from the word GO!  The Republicans have just thrown it down at his feet.  Obama is now justified in pushing for more with less Republican input.  I think that Obama has framed the Republicans into a corner where they are anti-recovery (and possibly anti-Country).  

Now comes the Senate fight.  If it looks like Obama will loose there I think you will see him use his personal power and organization to influence selected Senators into voting for the Stimulus package. It is already well known that they are anti-recovery (see House Vote) and pressure from home will make at least one of the Senate Republicans vote for the Recovery package for the Good of the Country. (Otherwise they become branded throughout the next two years).  

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by: NvDem @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 16:36:51 PM UTC

Proposal: Target Summers (4.00 / 6)

If it is true that, as DeFazio claims, Obama's chief economic advisor "hate infrastructure spending", Summers has no business serving in a Democratic administration.

What we need now is for someone in a position to do so to get Summers to go on record either owning up to or refuting DeFazio's charge.  

If the former, we should lobby our representatives to demand his immediate resignation.

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by: John Halle @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 16:40:27 PM UTC

Conservatives would be an improvement (0.00 / 0)

these are Clintonite neoConservatives.

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by: Paul Goodman @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 16:53:43 PM UTC

When do we stop blaming Clinton? (0.00 / 0)

They are all Obamites now. He hired them, he is responsible for them.

Montani semper liberi

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by: Sadie Baker @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 19:47:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Can we acknowledge now (4.00 / 5)

the obvious: that Obama's appeal to bipartisanship, and his investment in bipartisanship as a goal, was an abject failure?

Seriously, if you still believe that it was a success, when Republican cast not a single vote for the stimulus, then what will you ever count as a falsifying event for your theory that Obama can make bipartisanship work? Under what circumstances will you admit that Obama's supposed unique abilities to bring about a bipartisan consensus don't really exist? (Consider how much highly visible public effort Obama invested in trying to woo Republicans, with exactly zero Republican votes to show for it.) While I'm sure that Obama apologists will devise some sort of Goldberg contraption whereby Obama intended all this, and it will work wonderfully in the end, why should normal people believe in such contrivances?

In fact, of course, it is now the Republicans who have more of a sensible claim to represent a "bipartisan" point of view -- at least they can say that 11 Democrats crossed sides to vote the way they did.

If we really want to make political progress, then, sooner or later, it will be very important for mostly uncritical Obama supporters to see the hard limits to his claimed approaches to political leadership.

Now would be a very good time.

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by: frankly0 @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 17:01:28 PM UTC

YE4 OBAMA SUX0RZ!!! (0.00 / 0)

.

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by: Luce Imaginary @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 18:08:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I guess that's (0.00 / 0)

a "no."

Montani semper liberi

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by: Sadie Baker @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 19:48:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think we should still make good faith efforts to reach out (4.00 / 1)

But whenever they show bad faith by making all these demands and then walking away... we shouldn't let them punish us.

Show them that there are consequences for making demands, getting major concessions, and then opposing the stimulus anyway. Next time there's a negotiation, they're going to have less influence.

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by: danthrax @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 17:31:57 PM UTC

The consequences for opposing the stimulus (4.00 / 2)

are that they got exactly what they wanted. Republicans aren't stupid, they will figure that one out. When does our side figure it out?

Montani semper liberi

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by: Sadie Baker @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 19:50:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

language (0.00 / 0)

when you say things like "their votes yesterday confirmed that they are legislative terrorists interested only in sabotaging the economy.", it smacks of hypocrisy with me.

Bush goes on TV and says there ARE wmd's in iraq and if you disagree then you're no better than the terrorists because you're either with me or against me.

All he did was SAY there were WMD's. turned out to be BS.

Now, bush goes on TV and SAYS that the world is about to end.  Has anyone seen an iota of actual investigation into whether the economic world would end if we didn't do these bailouts?

Obama is going around SAYING that we need this right now etc. that's all you have to go on, and based on that you're willing to actually state "their votes yesterday confirmed that they are legislative terrorists interested only in sabotaging the economy" ??????

your choice of words harkens to the last 8 years. In the case of a 1 trillion dollar unprecedented bailout, descent is frigging welcome.  

I voted for obama and am not on the republicans side of things but it still pisses me off that the bill is full of thousands of little projects, half of which seem to have nothing to do with the point. when repubs get pissed at the pet projects in this, i agree with them--am i an economical terrorist now?

ridiculous.

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by: useruseruser @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 17:56:18 PM UTC

A few of those "pet projects" were actually removed from the bill (4.00 / 1)

after the GOPpers stamped their feet and whined about them. Similarly, some business tax-cuts were included so that these same GOPpers would quit moaning. What was the result?  The GOPpers still withheld their votes and continue to bitch and moan that Obama was not bi-partisan enough.

Maybe "terrorist" is too strong a word. How do you feel about partisan hacks who would rather score a few points with their party's base, than actually work to help solve the problems facing our nation? McCain said it best: They put Party before Country.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 18:32:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

better (0.00 / 0)

that IS better.  

i would still contend, however, that we're being led blindly into this like we were into iraq, and i have no idea whether we really need it.  wasn't the bank bailout supposed to save us?  we're all fully in agreement here on the left that this is totally needed but i havent seen any investigation to prove it, just quotes of famous politicians.  sounds like an excuse to do any project you want, basically.  i dont have any answers, either.

with this much money flying around, rather than throw a little at a million problems--i'd rather throw it all at ONE problem. can you imagine the US economy if we achieved energy independence through green power? throw this entire 1 trillion at that and your problems are probably solved too..but instead we'll throw some money at a bunch of problems and none of them will get solved.

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by: useruseruser @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 19:00:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I see your point more clearly now. (0.00 / 0)

I don't think that these problems are as unrelated as you seem to imply. Even the "one" problem you highlight (which I think is a noble and essential goal) is comprised of many parts. As far as I can tell, there is no current "green power" mechanism that can be purchased off-the-shelf and implemented across the board. If there is, please enlighten me. So, the "one" problem rapidly becomes many because we need to do the research, testing, development, production, installation, and implementation to accomplish the goal.

For the record, I did not and do not support the TARP hand-out. I certainly hope the second half (which is seems is beyond stopping) is, at least, used more efficiently.

If we buy the idea that the economy is tanking, which I don't think is in question, then I do think that getting money into the economy will help, as long as the cash gets distrubuted to the "bottom" and is expected to percolate UP, rather than handed to the wealthy (or corporations, like banks) and expected to trickle DOWN. Will it work?  I have no idea. But, I have seen the trickle down approach fail multiple times, so I have hint of what does NOT work.

I pretty much agree that we are "blind", I don't think anyone actually KNOWS what to do, or how to proceed. But, human civilization, especially modern day economics, is an experiment in progress.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 19:25:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, we ned to see how this plays out... (0.00 / 0)

Obama, apparently, is now going to campaign against Repbublcians in hard hit districts and there's a new T V ad out (you can see it at MyDD) that is quite tough for him, labeling republicans as embracing the failed policies of the last 8 years.

He brought out the carrot, now, it seems, he's going to be bringing out the stick....

I still don't get why he cares so much about Republican support... maybe he's trying to slowly bludgeon them into submission or irrelevance, but for the short term, he's raising their stature...

Someone on TPM mentioned that this strategy of his is taken directly from the Audacity of Hope... which was also the foundation of his winning candidacy to be president... so, I think we're going to have to see what's going to happen...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

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by: lord_mike @ Thu Jan 29, 2009 at 19:56:32 PM UTC