Pretty soon we'll have more pictures on the order of (4.00 / 6)

what was taken during the Great Depression....they don't need any words either to convey how awful the situation was

The question is why do so many in Congress want too many of our fellow Americans to re-live aspects of The Great Depression in 2009?

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by: Susan H @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 15:38:53 PM UTC

Why Did Versailles Laugh At The French People Starving? (4.00 / 5)

Same reason.

Same result?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 16:07:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Cheap servants! (4.00 / 1)

Seriously, anybody who makes it to the next plateau will be able to hire servants for nothing, and as John Kenneth Galbraith once said...

"One servant is worth a hundred gadgets."

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by: Jacob Freeze @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 19:28:50 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Maybe Speaker Pelosi needs these graphics (4.00 / 3)

to convince herself about how bad things are, but we don't need them.  Does she think that the elections for the past few years have favored Democrats because America loves them so much?  No, it's because the ship of state was being steered right into the rocks, and we had no other choice but to rely on the Democrats, who, by the way, were telling us how much they were going to change things.

I really wish Ms. Pelosi would spend her time selling the President on the fact that this is not the time for bi-partisanship.  It's the time for multiple stimulus packages, smaller and more coherent, to roll out of the House and into the Senate.  It's the time for elected Democrats who truly want to effect change to get out there and tell the people what they are doing and what the Republicans are doing to obstruct and prevent relief and stimulus.

To her credit, it seems that she is speaking out against the current fiasco, but she has lied and obfuscated so many times before that I don't know whether to trust her or not.  That picture of her with the bailout bill in a box, handing the pen to Barney Frank and congratulating her colleagues on a job well done is hard to get out of my mind.

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by: joanneleon @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 16:43:15 PM UTC

Paul, do you have to ruin my weekend? (0.00 / 0)

This graph is SHOCKING! Couldn't you wait until tomorrow with posting those bad news?
|-(
(sry, I seem to have a "shoot the messenger" attack. But all the bad news recently are getting at my nerves)

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by: Gray @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 17:00:45 PM UTC

Yeah, there are (4.00 / 3)

three things scary about the graph of our current job losses.

1. the current value
2. the current value of the first derivative
3. the current value of the second derivative

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by: frankly0 @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 17:51:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yup (4.00 / 1)

It's not the same as the other two curves, but a little worse.  It's a totally different curve.  It even makes you worry about the third derivative.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 19:53:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I've been looking at it and looking at it (0.00 / 0)

I ran it through some stuff in a stats package.

It's utterly terrifying, that curve.

If nothing changes, we will see, at minimum another 3 million lost jobs in the next 10 months.

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by: phat @ Mon Feb 09, 2009 at 04:37:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

To me the scariest thing (4.00 / 4)

about a potential major recession/depression is that I don't see how we might get out of it, given our current leadership in Washington.

In the case of a genuine deflationary trap, the vicious circle can only be stopped, it would seem, by some major step taken to break away from it. That is the reason it would be so important to get it right early with "shock and awe" that prevents the cycle from taking hold in the first place.

It would seem that that is just not going to happen, given the inadequacy of the stimulus.

But then we are reduced to having to make further steps down the line. Yet, how can this work, politically? The leadership in Washington couldn't do the right thing now, even when there is nothing that could be pointed to as evidence that the approach wouldn't work. How much harder will it be to sell further stimulus packages when the first one will have led only to greatly worsening numbers, even though it was touted -- by Obama for example -- as being exactly what we needed? Who in Washington will have the credibility to push forward these further proposals and get them adopted?

If things go south -- and that seems a rather likely, if not already the most likely outcome -- then I see no way out of a truly deep and prolonged slump without a great and prolonged political battle, requiring enormous will and constant struggle. Who in Washington among the Democrats is up to that task?

I can only say, I don't see Obama, who seems to love half-measures, as being that kind of President. And half measures could keep us in a slump from now until Kingdom Come, all the while adding to a debt that will hang over us until well after Kingdom Come.

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by: frankly0 @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 17:16:52 PM UTC

I'm Afraid You Are Probably Right (4.00 / 4)

This is, essentially, what Krugman is saying, too. In the previous diary where he's pessimistic about Obama being able to make up for it in the future, what you're saying here is the subtext of why he's saying that, a subtext that he's spelled out repeatedly in the past.

Japan in the 1990s is object lesson #1 here.  The way things stand right now, we'll be incredibly lucky if we only suffer as much as they did.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 17:25:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Third Worldization (4.00 / 2)

We are going to be much worse than Japan if we do not act boldly and quickly. Unfortunately we haven't seen anyone in Washington propose anything near what we need. I fear this is the final act of the third worldization of the U.S. For a road map of were we need to go see my post lower.

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by: Scottk @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 18:28:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes. (4.00 / 3)

Japan could still sell things to us, even though the export market wasn't quite the gravy train that it had been before China and Korea came along. We, on the other hand, have nowhere to go except to China, hat in hand. Stripping Alan Greenspan naked, and setting him on his own Via Dolorosa with full international media coverage might make us feel better, but unfortunately, it won't improve aggregate demand.

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by: William Timberman @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 19:30:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

What's with the glass all empty stuff? (4.00 / 4)

Take a different perspective - the military budget is still going up!!!

We've got other opportunities... Japan pulled itself out of the 1930s depression with a strong military-industrial collaboration. We can too!!!

GM and Chrysler are having problems surviving? Why don't we have them make a few tanks? Even better: fuel efficient armored drones!!!

People unemployed? The military is always a great career!!!

We're not ending up in the third world: we've still got bigger guns than anyone.

And what kind of wuss suggests we might have to go "hat in hand" to China????? China gives us problems, we can use our bases in Japan and Korea to stage an invasion of Manchuria.....

Those who refuse to learn from history....

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by: MadScientist @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 20:31:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Empolyee Free Choice Act (4.00 / 3)

The most important pieces of legislation to get us of this depression are the Employee Free Choice Act to strength unions and the middle class, in order that we may begin to consume at a level equivalent to what the world produces,with out creating debt bubbles, and two single payer health insurance, in order to make our manufacturing sector competitive with the rest of world which has single payer health insurance. We also have to pass a stimulus which helps states to pay their bills and to stop this deflationary spiral through investing in long term infrastructure projects to get people back to work, we also need to slash the military budget and institute an industrial policy to encourage manufacturing in the U.S. and work towards a managed trade regime in the world, instead of allowing multinational corporations to manage trade through intrafirm transfers and subcontracting.

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by: Scottk @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 18:20:27 PM UTC

I should have added (0.00 / 0)

In the stimulus we need to cram down home prices to their historical level of yearly income, and we also need to allow all student loans to be consolidated by the government to allow student loan slaves to get lock in an incredibly low interest rate and make smaller monthly payments there by freeing up more middle class income for consumption.

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by: Scottk @ Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 18:23:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]