Three Progressivisms: Trying to Find Logic in Silver's "Rationalist/Radical" Dichotomy

by: educationaction

Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 14:23


(This excellent diary brings a great deal more depth to our understanding of what the term "progressive" means historically, and then shows how that accurate historical understanding illuminates deeper problems with Nate Silver's recent simplistic dichotomization.  Lot's to think about here, folks! - promoted by Paul Rosenberg)

This is a belated follow-up to Paul and David's critiques of Nate Silver's "Rationalist vs. Radical" progressivism.  The dichotomies Silver laid out include:

Rationalist vs. Radical

Empirical vs. Normative

Sees politics as a battle of ideas vs. Sees politics as a battle of wills

Technocratic vs. Populist

Prone to elitism vs. Prone to demagoguery

Prone to co-optation vs. Difficult to organize

Optimistic vs. Pessimistic

Conversational vs. Action Oriented

The ensuing discussion focused mostly on how progressives think, or frame the world.  I want to look, instead, at something different and potentially more important: how progressives have historically conceptualized ACTION.  

In ongoing historical work towards a book I'm calling Social Class, Social Action, and the Failures of Progressive Democracy, I argue that there are actually three distinct forms of progressivism, all drawing from different interrelated aspects of middle-class culture:  Administrative, Collaborative, and Personalist progressives.  As with any categorizations, these have their own problems, but I think reflect key historical realities.

Not only do Silver's comparisons miss this three-fold complexity, but he also mixes in working-class models of social action as well.  

After the jump I lay out these three different progressive camps, and then return to Silver's dichotomy, adding in the working-class influence as well.  (This extends on some comments I made earlier)  See my full series on "Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing" here.

educationaction :: Three Progressivisms: Trying to Find Logic in Silver's "Rationalist/Radical" Dichotomy
Note: This relates to an earlier post in my Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing series, "Social Class and Social Action."

Administrative Progressivism

This is the model that mostly won the day in the bureaucracies of the world after the turn of the 20th century.  This is an expert model-"we know more than you so we should tell you what to do."  

At best, the administrative progressives envisioned a paternal process of social change, as those few who know best create a better world for the ignorant masses.  At worst they bought into the "scientific management" movement promoted by Taylor, in which workers became "hands" and middle-class managers became the "minds" of industrial work.  Even Taylor, however, seemed to believe that this mind/hands model would end up being best for everyone-because it was the most efficient model, everyone would end up getting more for less.

At least some of what Silver puts on the side of the "rationalist" progressives seems to imply this kind of expert control model, as he indicates himself: "prone to elitism."

Collaborative Progressives

This group drew from the models of progressive classrooms, professional associations, and the less hierarchical relationships between white-collar workers.  They envisioned a society designed around the collaborative method, seeking a flat "democratic" society in which everyone could participate equally in the collaborative development of a better world.  

In the collaborative vision, individuals were supposed to actualize themselves by contributing their unique capacities and perspectives to shared efforts.

John Dewey, the most sophisticated proponent, acknowledged that he couldn't figure out how this model derived from small groups would work on a broad societal scale-in fact he showed pretty conclusively in The Public and Its Problems that it couldn't.  But he and other collaborative progressives were unwilling to give up on their essentially utopian visions.  He kept hoping that even though no one had ever been able to solve the problem of how a local model of collaboration would provide a structure to organize an enormous society, someone might solve it in the future.

Why wouldn't he and other collaborative progressives give up in the face of overwhelming evidence that their vision was unworkable?  

The crucial problem was one of social lag.  If they gave in to a vision of the world that assumed the existence of unending conflict was an inevitable part of human society at least for the foreseeable future, as unions and other working-class movements did, they would have to teach people social practices that would ill prepare them to achieve the kind of utopia they wanted.  Teaching people in society to "fight" would point them away from the kinds of collaborative practices they valued, and actually make it more difficult (perhaps impossible) to ever achieve their utopia.  

Thus, in their classrooms and elsewhere, they were willing to take the risk (for the working class, among others) that not teaching them to fight in solidarity as mass collectives would doom them to long term oppression. (See this article (paywall, sorry) for a more detailed overview.)

Personalist Progressives

The personalists emerged out of the romantic stream of thought in America.  Like collaborative progressives, they sought to develop egalitarian communities, but they were less interested in joint work and collective action.  Instead, they sought to develop social contexts in which each individual engaged authentically with every other, and educational context that sought to foster individual expression to the fullest extent possible.  The personalists also envisioned a society built on this model, but didn't worry too much about the specifics.  They hoped that social change would just "happen" if they created the right kind of persons.  But they mostly didn't sweat the details too much.

Where the collaborative progressives focused on the need for people to work together on joint projects, the personalists focused on the importance of allowing people to actualize their individuality within egalitarian communities.  

In their education and in their social theory, the personalists focus on a world without charismatic leaders, without leaders at all in the sense that a working-class union or other standard action organization would understand them.  Theirs is a view of individual actualization within a "beloved community"--a term used by SNCC in the south, taken up by SDS in the North, and drawn from one of the 1920s personalists, Randolph Bourne.  Interestingly, these folks were not professors but independent intellectuals, as were the writers of the 1960s, for whom the key thinker was Paul Goodman.  There are some fascinating similarities across these two eras that have not been fully explored.

This romantic vision emerged most powerfully in the 20th century in the 1920s in the work of the "young intellectuals": Randolph Bourne, Van Wyck Brooks, Lewis Mumford (who was active in the 60s) and Waldo Frank.  Mostly forgotten.  Then it reemerged in the 1960s in the highly intellectual and anti-leader organizing models of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), for whom key intellectual influences were Ella Baker and Paul Goodman.  

The evidence of the impact of SNCC in the South is that it did have a somewhat transformative impact on what African Americans in some areas saw as "possible" for them, and did create a strong base for future organizing in some areas, but it did not (and was not supposed to) lead to mass action.  In Birmingham, actually, SNCC was reduced to begging Martin Luther King (who they disdained, and referred to as "the Lawd" in reference to their opposition to charismatic leaders) to "lead" people on marches.  They didn't have the capacity to do so themselves.    Importantly, SNCC's effectiveness in pursuing its "beloved community" model largely resulted from their fairly sophisticated combination of collaborative and personalist visions.  

In the North, in working-class white neighborhoods, SDS created the almost completely ineffectual ERAP organizations.  These failed in large part because they were much more personalist and less "pragmatic" than SNCC, seeking to impose their leaderless vision on those they worked with.  They had less of a focus on the pragmatics of joint action.  Some groups could hardly ever get anything done--at one point according to Miller, they spent two days discussing whether they should take a day off and go to the beach.  An iconic photograph shows one of their key "leaders" gazing intently into the lens, with everyone else falling asleep around her.

In fact, it is hard to imagine particularly effective, strictly personalist political movements.  The communes of the counter-culture were probably the best examples of the social implications of personalism.  It's no accident that personalists tend not to talk very concretely about social change.  (At best, thinkers like Goodman embraced a kind of privileged anarchism, mostly evacuated of any socialist vision.)

Back to Silver

From the perspective I'm discussing, here, it seems clear that Silver is mixing different kinds of progressivism.  For example, it is the personalists and not the collaborative administrative progressives that are "difficult to organize," even if collaborative progressives' organization is fairly loose.  Other aspects of his dichotomy seem to refer to the administrative progressives alone.   More generally, all progressives tend to be optimistic to a fault, although the administratives, of course, have little faith in "the people."  

From the way he frames his dichotomy, it seems like Silver is drawing from a particular interpretation of the experience of the 1960s.  And his framing not only misunderstands the complexity of progressivism, it mixes in aspects of working-class culture as well.  For example, few of the intellectual progressives ever saw politics as "a battle of wills."  Nor did they "marshal an army" depending on what he means.  The Vietnam War Movement, for example, was less like an "army," and more a loose collection of interrelated individuals and organizations.  Administrative progressives run bureaucracies, but still seek rational, collaborative solutions.  Labor unions marshal "armies."

To some extent, Silver is mixing up the "personalist" progressives of the SDS and early SNCC era, and the later dogmatic leaders of the Black Power movement and groups like the Weathermen.  It is informative to note that the Black Power movement was fundamentally (and explicitly) an urban working-class movement, and that it was the working-class that emerged as increasingly influential in the South (in the form of Deacons for Defense, for example).  The early personalists were quite optimistic--they only became cynical later on, and that's when their strategic approach shifted--and many of them simply "dropped out."

And it also raises questions about what exactly Silver means by progressivism.  In his discussion of his dichotomy, he equates Marxist perspectives with that of the progressives.  But the progressives, as I understand them, have rarely, if ever, been Marxist.  As fairly comfortable middle-class professionals, they have never had much interest in attacking capitalism directly.  Were the Marxist ideologues who emerged late in the 1960s "progressives?"  I don't know the history of that aspect well enough to say, but I doubt it, although they drew from aspects of the "I know better than you" administrative progressive attitude. (Paul-I'll bet you know the Marxist moment better than me-what do you think?)

In this later post, he argues that he was actually talking about "populists" as his "radical" progressives, but that doesn't really capture the distinctions he laid out either.  See Paul's detailed discussions of populism here and elsewhere.  

Silver is mixing so much up in his analysis that I'm not really sure what he's talking about.  

If people are interested in a more nuanced discussion of intersections between different kinds of progressivism and working-class visions of action in the Civil Rights Movement, you can see this draft case study chapter from my book.  It shows how these abstractions become intertwined in unexpected ways in the real world.  

(FYI my "Social Class and Social Action" book had a contract with a major (not to be named) academic press until I recently told them it was no longer just a philosophy book about John Dewey, and they decided they weren't interested.  So now I'm shopping it around again.  I'd love to hear if anyone out there has suggestions.)

(Also, I've been too buried to get back to my community organizing series.  When I have time that won't take me away from finishing the damn book, I plan to write a two-part series on "The Lie of Lifestyle Activism", a piece on "The Leader Function in Social Action" [taken from the book], and a discussion of the challenges of maintaining volunteer involvement in community organizing, among other topics.  See the full series here.)


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A Couple of Comments (4.00 / 8)
First off, I'm pleased as punch to have this diary here at Open Left.  This is just the sort of historically informative perspective we need much more of now that job one is no longer clawing our way back into power, but rather WTF to do now that we're in a position to start doing things.

Second, I want to comment that both Paul Goodman and Lewis Mumford were very profound influences on me as a teenager, from Goodman's Growing Up Absurd when I was about 13 or 14 to Mumford's books like The City In History, The Myth of the Machine and The Pentagon of Power 3-4 years later.  While I wholly agree with the main thrust of your criticism about the limits of the political practice that came from their traditions, the perspectives they opened up, and made available for me to combine with other critical points of view were an enduring source of strength, inspiration and insight.  

In this same spirit, I think it's vitally important to underscore that I place the highest value on a heterodox approach to political theory and practice.  I rarely bother to respond seriously to those who attack me as an ideologue, extremist or purist, precisely because none of them know the least bit about me, and all the happy hours I spent reading four or five books at once, comparing the perspectives of authors from different traditions, such as Mumford, Illich, Fannon and Baldwin, more often than not writing about totally different "subject matter" and yet clearly addressing deeply intertwined fundamental issues.

I'd like to see more and more of that sort of rich and deep intersection of ideas explored here at Open Left---as well as seeing the sort of truly effective political action that unfortunately was not nearly so much in evidence at that same time.  And this, I hope, will shed some light on why I think it's very important to be quite critical in reading different sorts of texts, without, however, taking a reductionist approach that ignores everything someone has to say just because there is some sort of flaw in their fundamental approach.

We are all, for the most part, adrift on dangerous seas, using imperfect means to find our ways--either separately or together, or both in turn--to a common shore.  We are not building on solid ground, in the kind of enterprise where a fundamental flaw means that everything above it not merely at risk, but a source of potential peril.  And thus we would do quite well to realize that our very lives may depend on someone else's deeply flawed, yet live-saving vessel pulling us out of the drink.

This typography is not only valuable in itself, but also as an example of how deep historical background can serve as a priceless guide to navigating mazes were might otherwise not even realize the existence of.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Thanks (4.00 / 3)
I also agree that all three approaches (and working-class ones as well) are potentially useful.  Goodman's co-written Gestalt Therapy, for example, is quite a profound work, and provides a foundation for much of what came after.  In the book I show that the Personalists and the Collaborative progressives actually draw from essentially the same conceptions of human beings.  

In other words, they are on a common continuum of beliefs about social action and individual actualization.  

I also argue that the personalists identified a key failure in Dewey's vision of collaboration.  Because he was only interested in action that could contribute to common projects, he inadvertently ignored aspects of individuality.  The personalists critiqued this in the 1920s in ways that have essentially been ignored by later scholars, especially in education.  Dewey won the intellectual battle, and his interlocutors were forgotten--not just Bourne and Brooks, but also radical educators like Margaret Naumburg (who later worked on art therapy).  These folks developed a vision of aesthetic expression and personal development intellectually and quite practically in their classrooms.  All lost.  

I figured these details wouldn't be interesting to the Open Left crowd, but as someone who loves uncovering historical worlds, they are fascinating to me, even if my own focus is not on aesthetic development or individual expression.

To finish, one of the key lacks of working-class models is an explicit focus on collaborative dialogue or individual expression.  Not that these models are non-democratic, or anti-individual.  That's simply untrue.  But they do lack the sophistication of the collaborative and personalist progressives.

The best forms of action would include all of these.

Of course, the problem is that when middle-class people come, they bring their privilege with them, and the whole thing tends to fall apart instead of becoming integrated.

In part this is because they come with a lack of respect for the kinds of democratic solidarity I have been promoting.  They don't even acknowledge it as "democracy."  And this judgment happens on a very subtle level, as I've argued before, as does the emergence of the power inequalities in dialogue.  

See this earlier post on why democracy doesn't work out when you put working-class and middle-class people together:

http://openleft.com/showDiary....

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
There's A LOT To Chew On Here (4.00 / 1)
Actually, I'd be rather interested in the lost historical worlds you speak of.  For me it's virtually axiomatic that we almost universally misread history by not understanding the debates of the time that "classic" documents or formulations come out of.

A much more overtly political example of this, and attempt to counter it is Stephen Holmes' Anatomy of Anti-Liberalism, in which he shows repeatedly how anti-liberal arguments (embraced by communitarians and postmodernists as well as conservatives) are repeatedly based on misrepresentations of the liberal position that depend on ignoring the historical context--and intellectual debates--our of which they arose.

p.s. Gestalt Theory was also on my teenage reading list.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
One of the fascinating things (4.00 / 1)
about the virtual loss of the "personalist" frame in my own world of education (though I've been moving beyond a focus on education for the last few years) is that it was actually the personalists, and not the collaborative progressives like Dewey that produced a significant number of real schools.

The first collection of progressive schools came in the 1910s and 20s (some still exist today).  Dewey was first hopeful and then totally opposed to their focus on individual expression (missing the fact that this was always within community, among other things).  The second was the Free Schools Movement in the 1960s and 70s, which produced the largest number of progressive schools in American history.  Again, this is mostly forgotten in the standard education literature.  

The personalist line of thought in America emerges most visibly among transcendentalists--and in their few schools and communes.  Then in Walt Whitman, most explicitly his Democratic Vistas.  Then in the 1910s &20s, then in the 1960s & 70s (although the Beat generation might fit).  And then I would argue that many of the American postmodernists were influenced by this (they grew up within the 60s and 70s after all).  

However, as more of a theory person than a historian, some parts of this thread are much fuzzier for me than others.  For example, where does the shift to ideological Marxism and the anti-colonial vision of Fanon fit, exactly?  Parts of it were working-class, but (In education, some of the marxists turned into postmodernists--like Henry Giroux).  I just haven't done the work, and as I'm shifting over to a focus on organizing, I likely won't.  But there is a lot of potentially fruitful analysis that is yet to be done. I just did enough to trace out the theoretical/practical issues I was exploring (actually more, but I get interested--I spend a good chunk of a year writing up the personalist perspective, which I hadn't planned originally to do).

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
I'm Rather Familiar With Pieces of the Personalist Tradition (4.00 / 2)
What with being raised Unitarian, and thus exposed to the Transcendentalists at an early age.  My sister also went to a free high school--although was part of a more politicized group of students who mostly cut classes to go to Black Panther rallies and the like.

But my sense of it as a tradition is rather episodic, as you describe.  It seems to spend a lot of time running underground, except for the Bohemian left, which has a fair amount of historical continuity from the Progressive Era onwards.  (Though, of course, the Bohemian left itself has been referred to as "the underground".)

Would you include Steiner Schools and Montessori Schools in the personalist tradition?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Montessori, no (4.00 / 1)
Actually my kids are in a Montessori school.  I asked the teacher about imaginative play, and she said they don't do much of that in the formal Montessori part of the curriculum.  Montessori is much more about initiating kids into the social practices of the time.

Naumburg actually studied with Montessori and developed her approach partly in reaction against her.

I can't recover enough details about Steiner from the depths of my brain to say one way or another.

At least the free schools let their kids cut classes to go to Black Panther rallies!  

Within a very politicized world, free school education can be quite political.  The Freedom Schools in Mississippi were key influences on the free schools.  But what was political in the depths of oppression in Mississippi, turned anti-political among collections of privileged white kids in the North.  

Interestingly, A. S. Neill of Summerhill fame actually started his school with some expectation that it would develop socially active people.  But they all turned into social workers, at best.  He didn't worry about it.  "They're free," was mostly his response, which denies, of course, the particular kind of freedom he initiated them into.

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Yes, Depoliticization Runs Deep (4.00 / 3)
I got to see that dynamic pretty close at hand, play out in many different ways.  For example, I was part of a small minority that would go to demonstrations in Berkeley and Oakland on Saturday afternoon, and then go to the Filmore at night.  What was missing, really, was the sort of politicizing working class movement that animated the 1930s.

What we had, instead, was a sort of widely fragmented melange of movements, which was, of course, far better than nothing at all, but not really up to the task of creating a self-sustaining politicized culture of resistance, much less one of political self-determination.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
We were young (4.00 / 3)
and not exactly from mill towns. It was expected of us, in a way, although not in the way anyone expected it, if that makes any sense. I really hoped at the time that we'd amount to more than a creative wriggle in the consumer society, but alas....

I remember waking up one afternoon some five years after I left school, with a kid in diapers, and a new mortgage, and realizing that all we'd seemed to accomplish was to drive the sideburns of network anchormorons down a half-inch or so.

That was a dark time indeed -- maybe it was the diaper changing, or Watergate, or pondering the implications of spousal feminism that did it. ;-)  


[ Parent ]
Key scholars of the movement (4.00 / 1)
describe the position of the activist youth of that time in exactly this way:

It was expected of us, in a way, although not in the way anyone expected it, if that makes any sense.

Middle class youth were raised in an environment of expectation in a world where it seemed like nothing heroic could be done.  

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
I believe Steiner's early works pre-date Personalism. n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Wikipedia has refreshed my brain a bit (0.00 / 0)
and, yes, Waldorf schools are much more open to creativity than Montessori, although they also come with all kinds of other sometimes odd baggage (IMHO) with doesn't necessarily detract from a nice overall package.

Steiner doesn't predate personalism (in the sense I mean it, and I am basically creating my own definition, here).  The Transcendentalists clearly predated him (Wikipedia says his first book was published in 1907).  

Furthermore, as I mean it, Personalism equates with particular aspects of romanticism as developed in Germany in the messy time before and during Hegel, etc., as the enlightenment fractured a bit.  

Here is a chunk on romanticism from my book draft:

As with later personalists, unique individuality was generally conceived of [by key romantics] as individuality within community.  As Lowy (2001) noted, "romantic individualism stresses the unique and incomparable character of each personality--which leads logically . . . to the complementarity of individuals in an organic whole" (p. 25). . . .  In Germany, Novalis, for example, opposed the "secularized, machinelike set of states" he saw in early 19th century Germany that "aimed at rationalizing all forms of economic life." . . . (Pinkard, 2002, pp. 167-8).  Like later personalists, romantic visions of an alternative social order were quite vague.  They generally assumed that "in a 'true republic' . . . people would be virtuous, [and] would freely and in a friendly manner cooperate with each other" (p. 169).


--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)

[ Parent ]
Well, Not If You Trace It Back To The Transcendentalists (4.00 / 1)
Steiner comes out of the European late 19th-Century spiritualist movement.  There was certainly plenty of cross-fertilization between the Europeans and the Americans.

William James was a key figure, for example, involved in opening up views on religion into a more empirical, non-dogmatic direction that helped legitimize the general enterprise, a somewhat surprising development, as his own father's speculative metaphysical side used to drive him a bit nuts in his younger days.  His father was part of the Transcendalist movement.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Traian Stoianovich may provide you an interesting perspective on the Marx/Personalist intersection (0.00 / 0)
Traian spent a big chunk of his career trying to understand (and teach) the intersection of Marx and Freud in the 20th century.  

He also wrote a groundbreaking study on the French Annales school -- a school of historical thought that has never been fully applied to the American historical experience.

His works may give you some insight on the intersection of the material and psychological/cognitive in American Liberal-Left history.  

Michael Harrington also has some very interesting insights into American Liberal-Left history.  He usually refered to the personalist movements you refer to as the "Lyrical Left".  


[ Parent ]
I've seen the "lyrical left" (0.00 / 0)
stuff, but the traian sounds really interesting.  Foucault came in part out of the Annales school, as did Kuhn.  But I don't know much more about it.  Thanks for the cites!

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)

[ Parent ]
Yes, a broader synthesis (0.00 / 0)
is very much to be desired. (Besides, the pieces parts assimilated along the way makes it easier to speak to people in their own language.)

[ Parent ]
Excellent (4.00 / 5)
Anyone who brings Randolph Bourne into a contemporary discussion gets my praise.

I see a collection of his writings is now available as a print on demand book, no need to hunt through used book sellers.

I'd also like to see more use made of John Dewey's ideas, especially the interconnection between education and creating an informed citizenry able to perform their duties in a democratic society.

There has been a pushback against Dewey's ideas on education with the right promoting an authoritarian approach based upon on a core set of ideas (and myths) and getting away from the idea that people should be learning how to think (and learn) for themselves.

It has reached its ultimate form in the autocratic No Child Left Behind legislation which has forced schools into teaching to the test.

Students now entering middle school have only been exposed to this style of education and the teachers are noticing how poorly equipped they are for the more creative types of work that they need to do in the higher grades.

If the goal was to produce mindless drones, they they are on the right track. Unfortunately the Chinese and Indians are doing the opposite and now turn out more engineers and technicians than does the US.

We won't only be buying their manufactured goods in the coming decades, but licensing their intellectual property as well. That is if they are willing to sell it to us.

Policies not Politics


Dewey has lost in reality, but has totally won in academia (4.00 / 4)
We are in an odd moment in intellectual and institutional history.  In actual schools, Dewey's vision of a vibrant progressive education is largely missing, especially from the experience of working-class students.

In education academia, as David Labaree has noted, "a rhetorical commitment to progressivism that is so wide that, within these institutions, it is largely beyond challenge"

Teachers imbibe progressivism in college and then get it beaten out of them (or just can't make it work) in actual low-income schools.

While I agree that we desperately need much of what Dewey brought to education (as well as what later proponents of aesthetic education like Naumburg discussed above) my concern is that Dewey's vision has little to do with empowerment.

So, yes, we need a more progressive responsiveness to the needs and capacities of individual learners, and opportunities for collaborative learning.  

On the other hand, we also need to teach kids tools for collective power, a topic about which teachers learn NOTHING about in college--either theoretically or practically.  

I've made some limited efforts to explore how to do this myself.  See this early presentation:  http://www.educationaction.org...

This review explores the limits of dominant visions of empowerment in education scholarship: edrev.asu.edu/essays/v10n3.pdf

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Which end of the telescope do you prefer to look through? (4.00 / 3)
Speaking as someone who comes at this this through a different tradition entirely -- call it continental if you like -- i.e., Kierkegaard and Nietsche at the outset, then through seemingly interminable Germans, with a detour into phenomenologists, existentialists, orientalists, structuralists, and fetching up finally with the end-of-ideologists, managerial theorists, and God knows who else from the new world grab-bag, I gotta say that the gap between theory and practice, democracy and efficient administration, is still the Gordian Knot of politics.

Stay off the street, and you lose your chops; stay in the street, and you might just wind up following some self-appointed messiah's white horse into oblivion. Have we learned anything at all since the days when proconsuls first discovered public largesse?

Yeah, I think we have, but disseminating it is still as big a problem as it ever was, not to mention convincing anyone in particular why he should care in the first place. The beat, as they say, goes on....


True (4.00 / 2)
But I do think it helps to understand the underlying tensions between different "frames" better, especially as they are linked to particular class cultural positions in our society.

The better we understand the different "theories" that are linked to different "practices," the better equipped we are to rethink our approaches--at least that's my hope.

Also, my hope (although I don't have much, which is why I have less and less interest in pedagogy) is that by identifying the complete lack of a focus on collective action (the working-class model) in education, we might begin to shift a couple of people and a couple of schools over to the need to explore how to teach it.

If you don't know something is missing, you don't even try to deal with it.  

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Ars Longa, Vita Brevis (0.00 / 0)
Be prepared to have your labor go unrewarded. When you sign up, that's the deal. Eppur si muove is now demonstrably true, but the Vatican soldiers on undaunted nevertheless, and so do all the church's idiot offspring, including our own fundamentalists.

Which is not to say don't go for it, just don't forget to stop and smell the flowers along the way. We only get the one shot, after all.


[ Parent ]
Right (4.00 / 2)
My expectations are low.  But we all have skills to play our little part.  Better to do nothing than everything.  Having kids has pretty much put a damper on any idea that I'm going to be some towering scholar or anything.  And, frankly, I enjoy it.  I'm fascinated to learn about this stuff.  Spent the time to read most of a biography of Hegel a couple of months ago.  Somewhat of a bizarre way to smell the roses.  The more you understand, the more interesting connections you find.  Some of them actually prove slightly useful :)

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)

[ Parent ]
Er, I meant (0.00 / 0)
better to do something than nothing.  But maybe it was a Freudian slip.  (The personalists LOVED Freud).

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)

[ Parent ]
Scat Singing With Kierkegaard and Nietsche Again, Are We? (4.00 / 2)
where Ma Rainey and Beethoven once unwrapped their bed roll, no doubt.

I once fantasized about programming a synthesizer with different philosophical passages, instead of sound samples.  Magister Ludi "Frutti Tutti", anyone?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Not a synthesizer, a calliope.... (4.00 / 3)
Just so's we get their attention. Red and gold, I'm thinking, with kids sitting on the running boards, and puffs of steam rising above the smoke from the neighborhood chimney pots. Glasperlenspielerei for all who dare, and cotton candy and balloons from the clowns moving among the crowd of spellbound onlookers.

[ Parent ]
Now You've Got Me Thinking All Vachel Lindsay (4.00 / 1)
with banners flying in the wind, and a Boomlay! Boomlay! Boomlay! Boom!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
This and that (4.00 / 2)
1) Has Nate gone Hollywood?  I saw him the other day on CNBC.  Well they were playing up his success as a forecaster Nate wanted to talk about where the stock market was likely to go (up of course).  He looked pretty young and non-hippie.  But outdated as well.  Sideburns and short hair?

2) Some weird things are going on in education over and above No Child Left Behind.  The kid next door, a fifth grader, has as much or more home work to do as I got in college.  It is boring and pedestrian as all get out and she spends no time on play and interacts very little with other children.  This seems like a poor use of fifth grade to put it mildly.  Having a fifth grader stay up to midnight to do her homework, even occassionally, is mind boggling.  Where does socialization fit into the academic models?

3) Personalization may produce some people who work for the team but are not quite part of the team.  That may get more outside the box thinking.  That is a good thing from my perspective.


NCLB is a factory model for producing widgets (4.00 / 4)
at least in poor schools.  The research says giving homework to kids that young is a waste of time.

The key problem with NCLB is the assessment model--the tests reward kids who are widgets.  Who needs socialization when you can get a better test score?  Middle-class schools don't have to worry about test scores.  By the time the sanctions get to them, there won't be any sanctions anymore (the middle-class parents won't stand for them).  (That's what happened with graduation tests.  Once they started affecting middle-class kids, their parents put the political kibosh on them).

In a corporate world, both personalist and collaborative progressivism end up serving the ends of the corporate world.  That is a key irony.  If the whole world operated in a collaborative model, then this kind of education would contribute to democracy.  But in a world where middle-class folks end up in corporate settings, their capacities for personal expression and joint action end up simply serving their bureaucratic betters and feeding the machine that treats workers like "hands."  In other words, progressive education equips anti-bureaucrats to be really good bureaucrats or "administrative progressives."

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
This Is Really Key (4.00 / 2)
and an ideal entry point for some thoughts you stirred up earlier.  IMHO, if the personalists, dating back to the early romantics, want to realize their dream of a radically more humane social order, one strategy to advance in that direction would involve radically restructuring the laws of incorportation, so that for-profit corporations would have to serve a specifically delimited public benefit purpose.  This was originally mostly the case, as corporations would be formed, for example, to build a bridge or a canal, or some other large project that in turn would benefit a broad sector of the business and general public.

What I'm suggesting is a wholesale restructuring of the law, so that public benefits would come first, and profits only secondarily.  That needn't mean lower profits--particularly in the long run.  But it would mean a lower prioritization of profit-making.   What's in the back of my head in thinking about this is that I've been taking another look at The Mask of Sanity, the first comprehensive study of sociopathy.  And it really is true, as was argued in the film, The Corporation, that is the corporation is legal person, the type of person it is is a psychopath.

The way one turns a psychopath into a healthy person is to add a conscience.  So far, no can do with actual flesh-and-blood people, but it's quite a bit more doable--or at least conceivable with legal persons, as we already have oodles of examples in the non-profit sector.  Of course that non-profit sector is itself far from perfect, but if we study the non-profit sector to see what's conducive to promoting the most human, pro-social organizations around, and the build that into the standard core of how corporations are organized, that ought to give us a pretty good starting point.

One thing that's cool about this approach is that it's not primarily  reliant on outside control.  It's reliant on fostering a culture of internal self-control.  We're talking about creating empowering environments in which folks who are educated in collaborative and personalist traditions will be able to play an ongoing role in giving and preserving an ethical shape to the organizations they work within.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I'm not sure I completely get what you are arguing, here (4.00 / 1)
but it at least sounds interesting.  

There are plenty of totally disfunctional non-profits.  In fact, some pretty thoughtful people think many if not most nonprofits exist in large part to pay their employees.  (which relates to an earlier post of mine about the problems caused by the search of middle-class graduates for socially productive jobs.)

I doubt if you can give corporations a conscience.  It's more about incentives.  This is why economists love taxes more than regulations.  If you get taxed for bad stuff, you might actually not do it.  But we're way out of what I understand at this point.  My brother keeps bugging me to see "the corporation."

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
I Don't Think Non-Profits Are Perfect By Any Means (4.00 / 2)
But my proposal doesn't depend on the assumption that they are.  Nor do I think my proposal--which I admit I've only vaguely described--will work in a vacuum.  I'm only suggesting that there is a direct analogy between individual and institutional behavior that can be sensibly described as psychopathic, and that building regulations into the internal foundations--and thus, structure--of corporations can achieve changes that may be very difficult, if not impossible through purely external regulations.

While I remain fundamentally skeptical in the long run that anything short of Star Trek socialism will really solve the problems we face, I think this is a promising halfway house on the journey, which would depend on a combination of internal and external regulations, along with a shift in ethos.  Perhaps the prospect of global collapse--of our economic system in the short run, and of our ecological system in the long run--can help move us in this direction.

The fact that I recently argued vociferously for a carbon tax--and expressed skepticism re cap-and-trade indicates that I share the perspective on how corporations behave.  What I'm talking about here is clearly something that's currently at least semi-utopian.  But finding realistic paths to utopia is not an idle exercise, IMHO.  Even if it doesn't succeed, it can expand the horizons of ones critical thought.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
True (0.00 / 0)
I'm interested in seeing it when/if you flesh it out.  

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)

[ Parent ]
Math is such a buzz killer.. (4.00 / 1)
There's a massive difference between educational and political Progressivism.
Since it's Saturday night, let's define them appropriately:  for the former I'd begin by turning the lights up and putting the liquor and snacks away;  for the latter I'd light the fire and get the wienees and kebabs ready.  

Nationalism is not the same thing as terrorism, and an adversary is not the same thing as an enemy.

Actually (0.00 / 0)
political and educational progressivism are deeply intertwined, not in small part because progressives are often so enamored of education as a political solution.  

But I don't really get your point, here.  

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Stay posted (4.00 / 1)
I've been studying this stuff for the last six months, and will write something up when I can.

The gist: Hofstadter was a smear artist; progressives and populists were much less distinct than people claim, and were found in the same places in different periods; there was no place or time in American history when populists were more bigoted, more racist, or more nativist than their neighbors -- racism is the curse of all of America.

Minnesota's Farmer-Labor Party (ca. 1922-1948) was radical, progressive and populist, ran the state 1930-1938, accomplished a great deal, and was consistently more progressive than the New Deal. The high point of American radicalism.

Not a good time, but more later.  


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