Hello! President Pragmatism! Over Here!

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 09:00


Note:  Last weekend, I wrote a diary "George Lakoff's 'Obama Code' As A Partial Model", which largely validated Obama's reading of Obama as a progressive, while noting some problematic aspects to his analysis.  This weekend I want to take a sharper, more clearly-defined look at the limits of Obama's progressivism, which this diary begins.  Not surprisingly, the dividing line is not pragmatism, but good old-fashioned ideology: "neo"-liberalism vs. the real thing. A key distinction of the real thing is public provision of public goods.

Michael Lind is pretty much an old-fashioned centrist, without being stuck in the past.  Like David Brock after him, he started out as conservative foot-soldier rising rapidly through the ranks, then grew appalled by what he saw once he rose high enough to finally grasp the rot within.  Yet, as Publishers Weekly noted in the review of his watershed book, Up From Conservatism: Why the Right is Wrong for America:

It is too late to rescue American conservatism from the radical right, he declares, pointing out the surprising sympathy conservatives have for antigovernment hate groups. Lind doesn't dwell on attacking the left; he did that in The Next American Nation. Given that few politicos today espouse the "national liberalism" he propounds a centrist populism that unites moderate social conservatism with economic class warfare.Lind urges his readers to support neoliberals such as President Clinton.

Ah, yes, the class warfare of Bill Clinton!  But you get the drift. And in case you don't, in 2001,.he co-authored The Radical Center: The Future of American Politics.

So what's he doing writing a piece in Salon bewailing  "Obama's Timid Liberalism"?  Setting the record straight, that's what.  Like many others, I was pleasantly surprised by his budget proposal the week before last.  To be honest, I was relieved after all that dangerous talk about entitlement reform and center-right "fiscal responsibility."  But that still left so much uninspired policy muddle draped in Obama's inspiring rhetoric that it was difficult to know where to begin.  Lind knows where:

Barack Obama's bold, ambitious budget plan proves that he is the true heir of Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal. Consider Obama's Rooseveltian energy plan. In 1939, President Roosevelt decided to mobilize Americans to create a new source of energy: atomic power. Although he was urged to focus on government-funded R&D, FDR chose a different route. He wisely encouraged private capital to invest in atomic energy research by a variety of tax incentives. To make atomic power investment more palatable to private capital, FDR boldly chose to make all other forms of energy in the U.S. uneconomical, by slapping high taxes on kerosene and coal. With the money from the new federal Kerosene Cap and Trade system, President Roosevelt and Congress funded a small-scale federal research program, in the hope of attracting much greater private investment ...

Wait. What's that you say? FDR didn't do that? He poured federal money into the all-public Manhattan Project and created the first atomic bomb in a couple of years? He didn't tax kerosene to make it uneconomical and to encourage private investment in atomic power?

Oh. OK. Never mind.

It wasn't just FDR and atomic power, Lind reminds us.  It was FDR and Social Security, too.  And Eisenhower and the Interstate freeway system.  The direct public provision of public goods.  And it worked.  Hello, President Pragmatism!  Over here!

Paul Rosenberg :: Hello! President Pragmatism! Over Here!
Lind goes on to note:

The point of this imaginary monologue is simple. Once upon a time in the United States, public goods -- from retirement security and energy research to public roads -- were provided by the government and paid for by taxes. As late as the Nixon administration, the provision of public goods by government was considered perfectly compatible with a robust market economy by so-called Modern Republicans like Eisenhower and Nixon as well as New Deal Democrats like Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy and Johnson. In the intervening 40 years, however, free-market fundamentalists of the Chicago School have managed to change the debate, redefining "socialism" to mean not only public ownership of the means of production, but also public provision of public goods.

There is nothing terribly remarkable in this observation.  It's as obvious as the nose on your face.  Or at least, it used to be, before the invention of 24/7 spin.  What is remarkable is that it's only the elite political class and the dittoheads that have fully swallowed this swill.  The vast majority of the American people--the "silent majority," if you will--have not.  They still believe in the social contract, an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, and an honest life's work for an honest life's pay.  They also, unfortunately, seem to think that this is what Obama believes in as well.  And in his heart, I'd like to think he does.  But there's a fatal disconnect here between good intention and sound ideas.

The heart of the problem is Obama's full-scale embrace of neoliberalism, as Lind encapsulates it:

Rather than fight back, most Democrats in the last generation adapted to this hostile conservative political climate by jettisoning New Deal "big government" liberalism for "market-friendly" neoliberalism....

Neoliberals are liberals in one sense -- they fret about unequal outcomes. But rather than help middle- and low-income Americans by regulating the prices of privately provided public goods, as the crude and direct New Dealers would have done, neoliberal Democrats have argued for allowing the "market" (translation: the publicly subsidized entities) to set prices and then promised to provide tax subsidies or grants to help middle- and low-income Americans pay for the expensive, privately provided public goods.

This is, not surprisingly, a formula for perpetual government subsidies of the most entrenched special interests--a fundamental fact so obvious that only kool-aid drinkers can ignore it.  The conservative/neo-liberal consensus that defines Obama's comfort zone is deftly described thus by Lind:

Neoliberals and conservatives agreed that public goods should be provided by private, for-profit or nonprofit entities, rather than government agencies. If private corporations or universities had no motivation to provide public goods, well, then, they would be bribed with tax credits or other government subsidies.

Within this consensus, a direct role for government is literally unthinkable.  It's in that sense--and that sense alone, that it's "socialistic", since "socialistic" and "unthinkable" have long been synonyms in America's elite political discourse.

Lind notes:

You might have thought that the Crash of 2008 would have led Democrats to reconsider this neoliberal approach to providing public goods by private means. But to judge from President Obama's budget, the White House is still living back in the neoliberal era, when the diminutive Milton Friedman cast a giant shadow.

Consider Obama's education proposals. The problem with higher education is that it costs way too much. Tuition costs at private universities and some state universities have been growing far more rapidly than inflation. A crude, old-fashioned, old-thinking New Deal liberal would see the problem as one of excessive prices demanded by universities, not insufficient funds on the part of the students whom the universities gouge. The hypothetical New Deal liberal would threaten to deny universities their privileged tax-exempt status unless they spend more of their endowments on tuition and keep their prices affordable.

In contrast, Obama's tepid "solution" sounds positively C-minus, "pragmatic" only for the higher education establishment, and politicians firmly in their thrall:

The neoliberal alternative is to avoid impolite and divisive inquiries into the reasons for skyrocketing tuition costs. That would entail the government concluding that prices in a particular industry (in this case, a nonprofit industry) are too high, something that government should not do. Instead, the taxpayer will be forced to cough up money to help students meet the exorbitant fees. Thus Obama's first budget calls for maintaining the $2,500 New American Opportunity Tax Credit for middle-class students, while converting Pell Grants up to $5,550 into a permanent government entitlement. If I were a university, I'd raise my tuition by ... oh ... let's say $5,550 a year. Government subsidies without government price controls would encourage cost inflation, one might think, but this possibility appears not to bother the brilliant economists on Obama's team.

Lind goes on to blast cap-and-trade as well, along with Obama's health care insurance proposal--a proposal quite similar to one Lind offered in The Radical Center, back in the day, before Wall Street blew up, reminding everyone that markets are fallible--"big time," as America's favorite war criminal would say.

But a lot has changed since Wall Street imploded last fall. The great investment banks are gone, the U.S. has nationalized much of the financial system, and appears to be on the way to effectively nationalizing the automobile and housing sectors as well. In this environment, we need to consider some heresies, like the idea that the best way to provide a public good is not necessarily to pour subsidies on middlemen, and then bail them out with more subsidies when they fail at their public function.

Ya think?  Which brings us around to the little matter of hegemony, which Lind presents in the form of framing all issues in special interest terms [emphasis added]:

The fundamental barrier today is the way that the issues are framed, by Democrats and Republicans alike. Thus the problem is defined not as making credit available for individuals and businesses, but as saving the banks and the shadow banking system. The goal is not to provide healthcare to all citizens, but to enable all citizens to purchase private health insurance. The objective is not to ensure universal access to higher education; it is to insure universal access to colleges and universities. In these and other cases, the means is confused with the end. The ultimate goal -- providing credit, healthcare or education -- is identified with the interests of non-governmental for-profit or nonprofit providers of that service. If these private institutions fail to provide the public service in a low-cost, effective and equitable way, then they must be subsidized even more. The idea of achieving the same public goals through simpler, more direct and efficient means that would cut out the middleman appears to be heresy to the Obama administration.

It's not necessary to nudge the Obama administration leftward until it arrives at socialism. When it comes to the public provision of public goods, Eisenhower Republicanism would be just fine.

In early 1992, I was wandering around outside a stadium where Nelson Mandella would soon be speaking, when I ran into Harold Meyerson, then the editor of the LA Weekly.  Paul Tsongas and Bill Clinton were the Democratic front-runners at the time.

"So," I asked Harold, "What do you think of the Democratic primary, with two Eisenhower Republicans in the lead?"

"Oh no," Harold shot back, "Clinton is an Eisenhower Democrat."

How wrong we both were.


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Public money for public goods provided by government agencies! (4.00 / 6)
We, the progressive left, need to say this over and over and over so that the neoliberals get drowned out.

Here in California, Arnold keeps pushing the idea that private entities should get public money.  He is not as anti-government as the Death Cult Republicans who sit in the Assembly and the Senate, but he is very much for private entities profiting off of government funds.  So far, the Democrats have primarily been enablers, rather than opponents.


The Gropenator HATES The Public Employee Unions (4.00 / 2)
and this is the heart of the reason why.  It also accounts for the vast majority of the resistance that has come from the Democrats.  Without the public employee unions, the Dems would have folded long ago.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
The frog and the scorpion (4.00 / 1)
With so many of his personnel choices, particularly those related to the implementation of his stated agenda on the U.S. economy (e.g., Summers, Geithner) and the military withdrawal from Iraq (Gates), Obama reminds me of the story of the frog and the scorpion.

A scorpion comes upon a frog by the river. The scorpion asks the frog to carry him across the river on his back. The frog says, "But we are enemies. If I carry you, you will sting me." The scorpion says, "How could I possibly sting you? I cannot swim. If I sting you, you would die and I would drown." The frog agrees to carry the scorpion across the river. Halfway across, the frog feels the scorpion's sting and cries out, "Now we will both die." The scorpion replies, "You knew what I was when I asked you to carry me."


Amount of time it takes... (0.00 / 0)
How would you compare the progress FDR made with instituting his New Deal programs with what Obama is attempting? From reading Brands new book, it seems that Roosevelt often took time to set the stage for whatever he was contemplating, making sure that conditions were ripe among constituents so that programs would be accepted. I believe that type of hesitancy infuriated some of his advisors, but he had the final call.

Obama may be tailoring his proposals, too, in regard to the urgency we feel about fixing the problems we face.


How Does This Explain The Continuing Bank Crisis??? (4.00 / 1)
Nice theory.  But it doesn't bear any relationship whatever to the continued failure to deal with the financial sector crisis.  The time was ripe for that 3 months before he took office.

Nor does it explain his ambivalence in hanging on to certain of Bush's "War on Terror" legal monstrosities.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
You're Right. It Doesn't. (4.00 / 2)
Seems to me that this is an area where Roosevelt's prior experience in Woodrow Wilson's cabinet and as governor of New York gave him a sense of power to insist on certain policies. FDR, in the press conference of Jan. 24, 1943, surprised Churchill by announcing his call for unconditional surrender of the Axis. He had formulated the plan of a body which would guarantee peace once fighting was ended, not simply an armistice. The long-term goal would be economic stability among the nations, and independence for colonies. He had started to plan for the post-war era.

What I think may be crippling us now in understanding the banking crisis is that we as observers don't have all the facts. At TPM, recent commenters report that insider traders DO know who received TARP money, that it's part and parcel of what they do for a living.

Something else is taking place, from what I read on The Money Illusion, a blog written by Bentley College professor Scott Sumner, who has proposed a petition to be signed by economists. In my understanding of the problem, banks are hoarding money instead of lending it because there is a government-guaranteed earnings for them by putting money in reserves. Sumner's idea is to addres this problem. Now, how do regular people learn these details - except by reading outstanding blog authors!

Sumner has a PhD in economics from the U of Chicago, but he is, at least, someone who didn't go out and take down a country, as I learned that the "Chicago School" economists did so often, according to Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capiitalism.


[ Parent ]
Now that I think of it (4.00 / 1)
My feeling while reading Klein's book was that we are living through that same "Chicago School economics" theft of this country's wealth at this time.

[ Parent ]
Good Points (4.00 / 4)
Or, as Stiglitz put it on Democracy Now a week and a half ago, "Obama Has Confused Saving the Banks with Saving the Bankers".

FDR would never have done that.  Not by the time he got to the Oval Office, at least.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Obama: Politics as Triangulation (4.00 / 1)
My reading of Obama's puzzling political gyrations is that his actions and policy proposals are the irrational result of constant triangulations and calculations, like those of most politicians who want to get re-elected.

While his postures do on rare occasions reflect his standing on principle, the policies he proposes or opposes are usually driven by the following opportunistic calculations and the triangulations that result from them:

a) What he thinks he needs to do to satisfy his major corporate campaign contributors (who gave him the lion's share of his campaign war chest) in order to maintain their support (this calculus explains his incoherent, counterproductive and financially ruinous policies for addressing the financial meltdown);

b) What he thinks he needs to do to satisfy the voting blocs whose votes he thinks he needs to get re-elected (which explains his efforts to carve a winning majority out of the muddled middle);

c) What he thinks he needs to do to get the support of enough members of the House and Senate to pass bills he favors and defeat those he opposes (which explains his failed efforts to create a "bi-partisan" coalition instead of beating the bushes to mobilize grassroots support from the 67 million people who voted for him).

The fact that Obama is constantly engaged in these triangulations and calculations, which are part and parcel of America's deeply flawed democracy, explains why

a) Obama can't be pigeon-holed into any of the traditional labels;

b) The two major political parties and party-backed elected representatives are hopeless self-serving miscreants that most voters would flee and run out of office if they had viable alternatives;

c) Obama and the Congress are unable to take effective action to address the collapse of the U.S. economy and U.S. banks and financial institutions.

 


I Have A Somewhat More Structured View (0.00 / 0)
I don't doubt that most of that stuff is going on, and has far too much influence than it should have.  But I do think he has a somewhat consistent ideology, which is basically Tony Blair-style "Third War" neo-liberalism, that tries to be progressive through patently inadequate means.

There's nothing particularly "unlabelable" that I can see to what he's doing.  I sort of wish there were.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
market man (0.00 / 0)
Maybe we can get Master Jack over here to debate you. He maintains that Obama's budget is the most progressive since Roosevelt.

I think some Obama advocates have confused priorities with means. Obama's priorities, outlined in this budget, are Democratic. But Obama's loyal opposition did not argue that his priorities were wrong or not Democratic, the source of Democratic opposition to Obama was that his means of achieving those goals would not work. Obama's policy preference for the market is what distinguished him in the primaries, but many Democrats argued that market failures in areas like health care and income equity, the massive market failure in the looming economic crisis, and Democratic dominance of government should lead to direct government action to solve a lot of festering problems.

I've admired Obama's flexibility, but he does not appear to be bending on the role of government. I think the best place to apply leverage is through congress.  


Non-Sequiters (4.00 / 1)
(1)

Maybe we can get Master Jack over here to debate you. He maintains that Obama's budget is the most progressive since Roosevelt.

Aside from clearly being false (see LBJ), this is a complete non-sequitur.  The priorities are encouraging, but the adequacy of what's envisioned is what's being questioned here.

(2)

Obama's policy preference for the market is what distinguished him in the primaries, but many Democrats argued that market failures in areas like health care and income equity, the massive market failure in the looming economic crisis, and Democratic dominance of government should lead to direct government action to solve a lot of festering problems.

Clinton, Edwards and Obama were all basically market-oriented neo-liberals.  There were only marginal policy differences between them, except for Edwards' emphasis on poverty and inequality.  Dodd and Ricahrdson each had a signature issue as well.  But beyond that, neoliberal orthodoxy was so omnipresent that voters had no substantial choice.  And this is the fundamental problem: the Democratic leadership has fundamentally accepted the failed policy framework of the Republicans, under the illusion that (a) it was politically necessary, (b) it could actually work, long-term, and (c) they could make it not just more humane (that much is certainly so), but genuinely humane.

The issue is not market vs. non-market.  Notwithstanding rightwing ideological blather, American liberals have never been anti-market, they've always been for a mixed economy.  The right simply projects its ideological rigidity onto the left, but such rigidity has never really been there in real life.

The question is market ideology vs. pragmatism (using markets where they work, for what they're good at, but not for stuff where they inherently or consistently fail).  Obama has sent mixed messages throughout on this question, but has clearly shown himself to be much more of a market ideologue since the financial market collapse--the exact opposite of what that sort of collapse has called for.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The question isn't market ideology vs. pragmatism (4.00 / 1)
The question isn't market ideology vs. pragmatism, it's what is ideology vs. ideology PERIOD. If the question was pragmatism vs. ideology the piece wouldn't be called "Obama's Timid Liberalism."

The problem is that this piece has failed to provide any worthwhile criteria for what should be government controlled and what shouldn't be. There is this contradiction where you acknowledge a mixed economy then don't explain what you think market economies are good at, you just rail against markets you subjectively don't like. So what we have is a people that lack a coherent ideology trying to call out the people that HAVE made their choices about what markets government's should intervene in and which one's they shouldn't. And what really irks me about Lind's piece is that he invokes the phrase public good as some sort of defining conclusion as to what the government should support but it's obvious he has no clue what a fucking public good is.


[ Parent ]
So Much Confusion, So Little Time (0.00 / 0)
This:
The question isn't market ideology vs. pragmatism, it's what is ideology vs. ideology PERIOD. If the question was pragmatism vs. ideology the piece wouldn't be called "Obama's Timid Liberalism."

is almost impenetrably confused.  Not the least because you seem to think that my writing and the headline writing of some unknown editor at Salon must somehow be tied together by a mystic logic known only to yourself.

And so I will pass to what can be clearly made sense of:

The problem is that this piece has failed to provide any worthwhile criteria for what should be government controlled and what shouldn't be. There is this contradiction where you acknowledge a mixed economy then don't explain what you think market economies are good at, you just rail against markets you subjectively don't like.

This is only a problem for the willfully hostile or willfully thick.  

(A) No diary can ever define all its terms.  Go Google "infinite regress" and click on every link, then google the first word in every link, and repeat without end.  To avoid such foolishness, one defines terms as one feels necessary, and if others have a problem with undefined terms, then you deal with that in comments as necessary.

(B) "government controlled"?  Who said anything about "government controlled"?  Are you a closet Randian?

(C) Taking the more neutral/objective distinction of government run vs. not the worthwhile criteria may be debatable in some cases, while not in others. (The fact that some strike calls may be close, doesn't mean there's n such thing as a strike right down the middle of the plate).

(D) There's no contradiction here at all.  Everyone knows examples of private goods--toothpaste, deodorant, whatever.  Everyone knows examples of public goods, too.  Ergo, the argument for a mixed economy is quite straightforward, even if there are gray areas, where the argument is about the details of the mixed economy.  

(E) I'm not just railing against markets I don't like.  I'm critiquing ones that either inherently or persistently fail.  Ones with pervasively high externalities, for example.  Or ones that have persistently been characterized by perverse incentives.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Strikes? You haven't even given me a home plate (0.00 / 0)
Well, when two of the policy recommendations I see (whether or not I agree with them) are expanded government run health insurance or price controls I think government control is an adequate phrase.

And really the only market named here with pervasively high externalities is the energy market and yet cap and trade is somehow out the window because it's a market based solution (even though it's the only solution that deals with the externality of pollution compared to Lind's desire for some alt energy manhattan project).

But anyways, despite the fact that you seem to have a character limit on your ideas, I'm stuck with reading a sort of ill defined liberalism that doesn't create any sort of working construct yet masquerades as true liberalism.


[ Parent ]
"Government Controlled" Is An Elastic Rightwing Boogey Man (4.00 / 1)
"Government run" and "government regulated" are distinct, identifiable forms of policy regime.  When I hear them said, I know what someone is talking about.

"Government controlled" is nowhere near that precise.  In fact, it's not in the same metrizable space.  When I hear "government controlled", I'm more likely to think of a 13-year old snot-nosed libertarian kid holding forth on the fascism of homework.  A traffic intersection is "government controlled" as is a concentration camp. The conceptual content is virtually nil.

GHG cap and trade is an interesting example.  It actually could be part of a very good comprehensive approach, as long as it's part of a larger whole. I'm already on record agreeing to that.  (The New Deal, after all, was a very diverse mix of regulatory regimes along with government-run programs, and it's precisely that sort of pragmatic mix that I'm arguing for.) So my argument here would be a bit more nuanced than Lind's.  But I already indicated that he and I are not ideological twins, and it's not the fine points, but the central principle on which we're agreed.

This carries over to health care as well.  If it were only a matter of adopting the Hacker plan as a means to transition to single-payer over time, I could abide that, though it's far from being my preference.  But there are all sorts of mixed signals that keep erupting that cause me to doubt how committed he is to anything resembling what' needed over the long haul.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Economic philosophy (0.00 / 0)
I think you are making my point, if more clearly. I said "his means of achieving those goals would not work."

But you are mistaken on the policy positions of the big three from the primaries. On many policy points (Edwards was rhetorically to the left) they were clustered on the right side of the Democratic party, but there were real differences on domestic economic policy. The best predictor of how a candidate will govern is their political philosophy, Clinton outlined hers in the New York Times:

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton said that if she became president, the federal government would take a more active role in the economy to address what she called the excesses of the market and of the Bush administration.

Reflecting what her aides said were very different conditions today, Mrs. Clinton put her emphasis on issues like inequality and the role of institutions like government, rather than market forces, in addressing them.

Hillary Clinton is a liberal Keynesian, not a social democrat, and definitely not a neo-liberal. Krugman's series of columns on primary policy positions showed this point by point, somewhat to his surprise. Democratic voters had a substantial choice, and they split down the middle. The depth of this economic crisis is pushing the "creative class" part of Obama's base, and hopefully Obama himself, to the left and toward Hillary Clinton's economic philosophy.


[ Parent ]
the voters choice (0.00 / 0)
One empirical point regarding the voters view of the choice, the substantial difference between Obama and Clinton was so clear that Nate Silver was able to accurately predict primary results using mostly demographics.

The Democratic party split along interest lines, and for most of the party that was around economic interest.


[ Parent ]
PERCEIVED Interest Lines (0.00 / 0)
Among other things.  

And they were ambiguous on multiple levels, as well as reflecting a healthy dose of identity politics.  If their policies were reversed, but their identities and campaign strategies and styles maintained, how much difference would that make?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Such Differences May Seem Obvious To You (4.00 / 2)
But they were not obvious more generally.  Particularly when you have quotes from aides, rather than major addresses from the candidates.

Also given that her husband talked a similar game during his election campaign in 1992.  In fact, Bill Clinton in 1992 campaigned economically to the left of Hillary Clinton in 2008.

And even Obama is a liberal Keynesian, for what it's worth.  Neo-liberalism in it's 3rd World/IMF manifestations is clearly anti-Keynesian in its practice.  But domestically, it's much more ambiguous.  His stimulus package is clearly Keynesian.  It's just not big enough.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Hillary Clinton was not Bill Clinton (0.00 / 0)
(Let's not get into seeing women as mere reflections of the men in their life)

She was more liberal economically, when they were in the White House. She was more economically a standard liberal when she ran her campaign than when he ran his.  I heard her privately at events dozens of times when she was First lady, and she always sounded (subtly and carefully said) more progressive than he did.

Chelsea Clinton was always saying that whenever it came to a difference in opinion, her mother was always more progressive than her dad.  And if anyone knew her mother's opinions, that didn't get bruited about when her dad was President,  it would be her smart and beloved daughter.

Look the primary is over.  We have our presidient.  For most politicians breaking out of the neoliberal box by anyone who's had to get elected to office in the past couple of decades would be very difficult.  Like shaking off thread that twisted up around you but you can't relly see it well.

I think Lind's piece is an eye opener and I am astonished as to how little it's been engaged with in the blogosphere.

It tells us something about us as well as Barack Obama.

So I am thrilled you are writng about it.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
A little too self-referential? (0.00 / 0)
I'm all for reflexivity as an analytical tool, but "...largely validated Obama's reading of Obama..." is a bit over the top, no?

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

Self-Validation Is Exotic??? (0.00 / 0)
Not since the ancient Greeks, one would think.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Heh heh (0.00 / 0)
But I hadn't thought that narcissism was the theme of the post. Was I wrong?

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

[ Parent ]
Left on left violence (0.00 / 0)
Ah yes, now we get down to the nitty gritty. None of the things mentioned here are public goods.

I mean, Lind lost me when he started crying about cap and trade. (actually he lost me when he equated FDR's hunt for a fuckin bomb with the creation of our nonexistent nuclear power grid) but I'll indulge him.

The government controlling an industry doesn't mean that the industry is providing a public good anymore then the fact Government is nationalizing the banking industry makes credit a public good. Some people deserve credit, some people don't. Even things that people need like healthcare or food or gasoline, aren't public goods. Even education isn't a public good.

Yes, the government is supposed to provide public goods. BUT THESE THINGS AREN'T PUBLIC GOODS. And this isn't subjective, just look up the phrase public good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

So once you are down the road of claiming that any economic good that you desire to be universal should be controlled by government, just where do you draw the line? Do I get to play the "more liberal than thou" card if I think that the government should open grocery stores rather then provide food stamps? Or better yet, since poor people can't buy food we should install price controls that make it possible for everyone to buy food? I mean that's the analogue of Lind's rant about pell grants. What's funny to me is that socialist China figured out market socialism is more sustainable than direct government control of pricing yet I have to hear old half assed economic ideas from Lind.

You have to pick and choose your battles. You can't intervene in every market that has an outcome you don't like. And you certainly can't intervene just because of your ignorance about the phrase "public good."


Violence? "government controlling an industry" WTF? (4.00 / 5)
Samuelson's concept may be peachy for economists, but Bismark recognized health care as a public good for Germany back 1880 based on more comprehensive intellectual framework.  And Bismark surely was no leftist.

For the political economy, things like health care, education and social insurance are recognizable as public goods in the sense of all having high externalities that grow increasingly more significant as their scope over time and space expands in ways that are intuitively obvious to dispassionate observers, and thus are subject to significant market failures.  While folks can quibble over including or excluding some things in the list of public goods so defined, world history does give a pretty strong indication of where supermajority opinions lie.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
NeonBlack is lost (4.00 / 2)
   Have you ever read any of the history of this country?  Maybe, instead of repeating your incoherent talking points, you might decide to a pick up few books:  "Consience of a Liberal", by Paul Krugman; "The Defining Moment", by Jonathan Alter; "The Progressive Movement", by Mike Lux; "The Case for Big Government", by Jeff Madrick; A Necessary Evil by Gary Wills; "Why We Are Liberals", by Eric Alterman, etc.  
    Paul is making your fatuous and whiny refrains seem more deluded each time. Stop! Your are wasting everyone's time with your befuddled thinking.

[ Parent ]
But they are. History by necessity broadens the meaning of public goods (4.00 / 3)
In the middle ages, roads were private, not public. (Roads were private in the US for a long time and it was not considered the government's responsibility to provide public passage.  That was something that Jacksonian democracy was about.)

Justice was private, not public

Education was very private and unavailable, not public.

Armies and soldiers were private, not public.

Water was private, and never public.

Everything was owned by someone privately.  Even the goods of the kingdom belonged to its monarch....They did not belong to the kingdom.  The monarch could dispose of them at will, from land to people on it.  One's daughter married the King of France and Aquitane, its cows, vines and people,  went with it as the dowry for the King's daughter.

So as society becomes more interdependent and bigger,and the private provision of public goods becomes both more expensive, more complicated, and most importantly less effective, the defintion of what public goods are and which ones are needed MUST change.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
Spot on, though (4.00 / 2)
I think the key is rents and rent-seeking behavior.

What the "nudge" school favored by some of Obama's advisors leaves firmly in place is the "rents"  (fees) charged by insurance companies, for example.* Rather than ask why the rents are there at all, these advisors seek to mitigate the effects, and "nudge" people into behavior they consider good through a combination of mandates and subsidies, whose mechanism was initially patented by Rube Goldberg. Won't work for health care, though it will kick the can down the road for a few years. And in the long run we're all dead, especially those who can't get health care because of the insurance companies' business model of denying care for profit.

* Another example of a "rent": In Oregon, they don't write unemployment checks any more. Rather, the state contracted with some large banks, and now you get an ATM card with a deposit equal to your unemployment check. The beauty part, from the bankster's perspective, is that (a) they can charge $3.00 (the "rent") to give unemployed people their own insurance, and even better (b) they forcing people to do business with them. The parallel between the fees collected by the insurance companies, and Obama's mandate, is exact. The state should cut the banks out of the loop, and go back to writing checks. Similarly, Obama should cut the insurance companies out of the loop, and go with single payer.

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


Bad ital... (0.00 / 0)
Sorry, sorry!

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

[ Parent ]
Hegemony and The Great Disconnect (4.00 / 1)
    After reading Lind's article yesterday, I had a sickening feeling that perputual incrementalism and triangultion was in play. A paradidm, that unfortunately will not provide the necessary change that Obama and team need to succeed: the possible causeof defeat in 2012.
  [I felt like Krugman's book "Conscience of a Liberal" with its clear and concise arguements for a "new" New Deal, based on the sccesses which FDR and New Dealers paved the way up until--I venture, Nixon's first term is illusionary at present. If Obama does not change course fast and radically, it may be doomed. (In comment section yesterday, I laid out a decent argument for Dean Baker to replace Geittner asap.)
   While I prefer we do away with neo-liberalism, especially where upon a lot of itsmeans are not up to the task. (I find it such an irony that market solutiions are so strong in this debate: the "market deities" failed!The time of market driven policy seems like a sick joke; if were so sad. Millions wiped out by the once infallible leaders of Wall St. and their counterpart CEO of other major industries.
  In your post pertaing to George Lakeoff's framing of progressive and conservative  morals; their relationship to a progressive governing body; and its role in forming policy, you constantly echoed Lakeoff's lack of grasp pertaining to 3 decades of Washington elite hegemony.  It's seems you have forgotten this specific area, especially when it's comes to the hegemony of our elite media class.
  The elite punditocracy is still very strong.  And while out of touch with the public it purportely covers, their power of Orwellian NewsSpeak and Misinformation influence is still formidable--especially with the backing of powerful, radical conservative groups--as you pointed out in the case of Rick Santelli. George Will's incredulous columns are still not taken to task to the degree one would hope.(He should be fired for all his past columns!; though, the former statement is more incredulous than his recent columns in the real world.)
     Anyway that being said, I find the problem with the Democratic leaders--albeit there are some very good communicators--in their lack of "working the refs" and getting their message out there, especially on the "right vs left" specter of our television media landscape.(Unfortunately, it still is one of the most influential forms of news, or lack thereof.) Only A-list debaters should show their faces on network telvision and cable news. Durbin, not Reid should round up the troops and go on the offensive.
    So, you are left with Obama to campaign on the needed policies.  The problem:  his bully-pulpit only can go oly so far. He is the President, and does need to govern.
(That isn't to say that his means to an end are not to be pushed by progressives to a more bold and successful model. The handling of the banking and financial institue is depressing.  His ideas for education accessibility are misguided. However, I think Kevin Drum's recent article on how to curb emissions does give some merit to cap and trade--with possible top-down approaches, though its probablility slim. I think Obama would need a second term to succeed with that approach.
  A minor epiphany: Obama must give long speeches pertaining to these issues.  For example, his speech on race. This will change the discource: U-Tube viewership will soar, the public will become aroused, his support will grow, and the MSM will have to deal with a different perspective. The MSM will have do their fucken job!--report and educate the public. This could move policy into more hopeful scenarios. The budget is still amendable.  
     That said, the country were under more dire circumstances when FDR got into office. Eventually, he had a war that galvanized patriotic fervor, unlike the tepid feeling of our current foreign escapades.  Lastly, he brought into the White House tre reformers, unlike Obama. Will this change? I only hope. . . .
     As Mike argued in his post the other day, this is no time for the Democrats to back away from bold change.
     Questions:  Do we not have strong liberal and progressive interest groups and a better mechanism for fundraising than ever before? What are the chances that that Democratic congress members can get elected or re-elected without the powerful interests that have played such a powerful part--an unseemly one--of their successful campaigns? Wedded forever?

Note:  Does Robert Reich have a legitimate point about the progressiveness of the budget? And, are we will all Luddites, in the light of the last 30 years to expect the change that Michael Lind espouses breeezily.  Truth: his book in defense of the Vietnam War was weak.  Where was he a month ago?
       


A Few Points (0.00 / 0)
First, I'm in agreement with a lot of the points you make.  Baker would be superb, and more long speeches by Obama could indeed do a tremendous amount, for example.  Not only could YouTube viewership soar, the Dems could and should build their own channel.  

Second, somewhat relatedly, I think there are a lot more resources available for Dems than you give credit for.  The limiting factor is no longer resources--though we could certainly use more--but rather (a) the will to fight and (b) a sound strategic sense of the battlefield.  Neither seem to be anywhere near to being in adequate supply.

Third, I must not have done a good enough job of explaining my intentions with the Lakoff diary.  You write:

you constantly echoed Lakeoff's lack of grasp pertaining to 3 decades of Washington elite hegemony.

I think there are two separate issues here--one re Lakoff, the other re me.  I think that Lakoff does get this in a way, but not in a way that's integrated into his professional critique.  In writing the diary, I was not trying to remedy that all at once.  Rather, at this point, I'm engaged in a sort of triangulating exercise--trying to clarify the strengths and weaknesses of Lakoff's analysis on it's own terms from one point of view, then shifting to another perspective to discuss the hegemonic structures.  I'm still a ways off from being ready to integrate them, but it's definitely my purpose to being working toward a more integrated approach.  I have more of a conceptual framework in mind already, but need to work on fleshing it out and testing it in practice to refine it.

Finally, Reich is just a real crap shoot.  Sometimes he's just freakin brilliant, and sometimes it's like he's forgotten everything he knows.  I think the budget may be quite progressive as budgets go, but that's only one dimension of policy.  Devil. Details. Yadda-yadda-yadda.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
A simple point (0.00 / 0)
Put spaces between your paragraphs.  It would be a lot easier to read what on the whole seem to be very intersting ideas.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
But David Brooks Tells Us (0.00 / 0)
that there are limits to the ability of human reason and intelligence to solve problems.  Tell that to the American seniors who have been rescued from old-age poverty by SS and Medicare, for example.

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