Geithner = Warren?

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Mar 21, 2009 at 17:30


Is Tim Geithner another bad choice, like Rick Warren, that Barack Obama is simply incapable of recognizing, admitting and acting on?  And is his unwillingness to recognize this a symptom of some much deeper problem with how he will govern?  I fear it very well could be.

There was a headline at Huffington Post, it's gone now--I blinked and it went away--but it made a sharp impression before it was replaced with something far more benign.  I forget the exact wording, but basically it was the Obama told 60-Minutes there was no way he was letting Geithner go. It came across like it was a point of honor with him.  And I had a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I saw that.

I don't know what story Huffpo was linking to, but BBC puts it like this:

Obama fends off Geithner doubters
US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner will not be allowed to resign amid criticism of his short term in office, President Barack Obama has said.

Mr Obama told CBS News he would turn down any offer by Mr Geithner to quit, and would tell him: "Sorry, buddy, you've still got the job."

I'm having a flashback right about now, to Barack Obama posting a diary at Daily Kos, telling all us dirty fucking hippies to lay off his buds in the Senate.  That was the first instance when Obama used his popularity with the Democratic base to shield his personal friends from justly earned criticism--criticism that had nothing, necessarily, to do with them as private people, and everything to do with their public duties.

Then, there was his still-unexplained infatuation with Rick Warren....  

Paul Rosenberg :: Geithner = Warren?
who clearly tried to sabotage him with the ludicrous "cone of silence" debate--not so much that he colluded with McCain, but simple that it was a stacked debate from start to finish, and everyone with a lick of sense knew that long in advance.  If anything, that public betrayal only made Obama more determined to further elevate him at the inauguration, and simply dismissed the anguished objections of the GLBT community and its allies.

Now, here we go again.  And the common denominator in all three of these cases is that Barack Obama doesn't seem the least bit amenable to reason.  Oh, he has his very pleasant, very "reasonable" demeanor, fully intact.  Any lingering doubts about why he admires Ronald Reagan should be long, long gone by now.  But when it comes to actual reasons, as opposed to the appearance of being reasonable, there is, quite simply, no one home.

Put simply, Obama defends his friends.  Ideas are utterly beside the point.  If his friends have ideas that are abhorrent, or deeply injurious to his political supporters, or the American people at large, then tough toenails for his supporters and for the American people.

There are many aspects to this, IMHO, but one in particular seems to come to the fore right now--in all these cases, Obama seems to fixate on one reason for the path he chooses, which leads him to forge personal bonds, which then become the unquestionable foundation for everything else he does.  The reasons he gives are not necessarily wrong from my perspective.  But they are rather questionably calibrated, to say the least.

The Senate Democrats needed to hear some anger from the grassroots at the time that Obama defended them, however well-advised his words might have been in another situation.  And all the reasons for reaching out to someone like Rick Warren only turn to ashes once one actually learns about him--his hypocrisy, his sanctimoniousness, the vast gap between the PR and the reality.  Likewise, the rationale for someone like Geithner, someone who knows the territory like the back of his hand, is perfectly obvious.  But the rationale for putting him in charge is not.  He is an ideal advisor on the implementation side, after the main outlines of policy have been decided on.

What we can see in all three situations is that Obama has run away from those who form his natural constituency, he has found some new friends who, like most humans, have some endearing qualities, but also some rather disreputable political views, and he has turned it into a matter of principle that we must simply ignore the policy consequences of his new friendships.

This would be annoying, at best, if we were talking about high school politics here.  But we're not.  We're talking real world here.  And in the real world, it really doesn't matter what these folks are like in their private lives.  If they tell off-color jokes, or if they'd sooner die, it really just doesn't matter.  What matters is if they are going to do the right thing in the way of public policy--and more basically, if they even have the slightly clue what that might be.

And somehow, the fact that we're no longer suffering under the worst President ever has drastically lowered our standards, so that we're willing to accept the leadership of a man who is genuinely inspiring, but who seems to have very low regard for whether policies actually work or make sense, and much more regard for whether everyone he wants to get along actually does get along.  It's not that I expect his views to coincide with mine.  I never expected that.  But I did expect significantly better reasons from him when it came to explaining why he sees things as he does.

But, frankly, I see very little sign that he cares even a little bit about that.  He cares about sticking with those he's chosen.  Which, when you get down to it, sounds far too similar to GW Bush for my personal comfort.


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Geithner = Warren? | 167 comments
Well Paul, you really did it this time (3.76 / 17)
You put into words what millions of Obama supporters have been thinking but were not going to say for fear of undermining the "hope" for "change".

Simply stated, it looks like old-time Chicago politics to me. I actually know a lot about that kind of politics. I live in Louisiana.


Obama = Hoover ? (3.43 / 7)
I guess his lack of experience is a problem after all.

I'm Not So Sure It's Lack Of Experience (4.00 / 6)
Actually, at 5, 10 or 20 years older, he might well have the same sorts of stuff going on, but might be much harder to shake out of it.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Right (4.00 / 3)
It's hard to understand how he's governing so very differently from what I expected of the guy who gave the "Enough" speech in Mile High Stadium seven months ago.

[ Parent ]
If you had heard him in MI, you would understand. (4.00 / 3)
Watch him in CA right now.  He is very good at telling people what they want to hear.    

[ Parent ]
I only recommended this (4.00 / 1)
because it didn't deserve to be troll rated by the troll.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
And people say Obama has no choice... (4.00 / 5)
...in keeping Geithner in his current (undeserved) post.

This ignores one thing: when searching for a Secretary of the Treasury, Obama did have a choice: he could appoint someone competent, or he could appoint Timothy Geithner.

And now he and all of us are reaping the consequences of this most disastrous choice.


You're not alone in your misgivings (3.78 / 18)
There's a passage in one of his books -- I don't remember which one, or the exact quote -- but it concerned his discovery in the course of his rise that the movers and shakers were people just like him, and that he felt comfortable among them. Once he began to move in their world, he said, he was able to sympathize with their view of it. Perhaps my own prejudices were at work on my understanding, but he seemed to me to be congratulating himself that his grasp of their basic humanity was one of his virtues.

One could argue that it was -- and is -- but it's also a classic example of what we used to condemn as co-optation. Even though the overall thrust of his narrative was his coming to view the world as a complex place, with many competing interests to be resolved, I was stopped cold by the way he tossed off that little gem. Barack, I said to myself, you really have NO idea what you're in for. Once you commit the sin of coziness, the odds of redemption -- as a politician, at least -- go way down. WAY down.

Clearly, he doesn't see it that way. Just as clearly, he'll have to learn the hard way, and those of us on the left dim-witted enough to passively await not only redemption, but a redeemer, are likely to suffer terribly through the final phase of his education. Honestly, I don't look forward to it.


It's As If (3.43 / 7)
he touts himself as coming from being a progressive, yet he comes off as abysmally ignorant of some of the most facts of life.

How'd that happen?  Did he not read anything?  Of course not!  He read plenty.  But it's as if the things he read often just didn't penetrate, and what stuck with him were the the bullshit sessions.  In fact, I'd say it seems like his entire perception of the left is based on thinking there's nothing deeper there than what you'd get out of a sophomore year bullshit session.

After all, what serious left theorist would deny the complexities of America's diverse ruling class, with its constantly shifting factions and alliances?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Well, there are some, (4.00 / 7)
but you and I are clearly not among them. Politics is a game, yes, but one with very high stakes, especially for those who aren't in on it. Working stiffs, widows and orphans, etc. -- Rick Santelli's losers.

A leftist believes that we'd all be better off if we made it easier for these folks to take part in the game. By that standard, I'm not so sure that you could locate President Obama much further to the left than Ronald Reagan.


[ Parent ]
It's a game where we don't have money for little Johnny's x-ray (3.69 / 13)
but the moment the Goldman gets in trouble, trillions move through Congress in days.

Sometimes it's not the ideas that need to be changed, it's the people. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the constitution changed, the laws changed, but the usual suspects were still in charge and ultimately that proved decisive.

We are in that type of situation now.


[ Parent ]
Excellent Point (4.00 / 2)
Though I'd say it's both the ideas and the people that need changing.

Not to mention, by the smell of it, the diapers as well.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Millions suffered just so Bush (3.43 / 7)
could work through his daddy issues and try to prove he could do a better job in Iraq than Pappy Bush.

How many billions will have to suffer just so Obama can learn some tough life lessons?

This idea of the presidency as psychotherapy for its occupant really has to stop. As we did in 2004, we chose an inadequate man for the highest office in the land, and we're all going to have to pay the price.

The really depressing thing is, this time the inadequate man really was the best option among the candidates.


[ Parent ]
Well, That IS What Happens (4.00 / 5)
as a ruling class goes into serious decline.  And if having GW Bush as president for 8 years wasn't a clear sign of serious decline, I just don't know what is.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
great, so all we've got to look forward to now (4.00 / 5)
is an alternating sequence of Tiberiuses and Caligulas, until what remains of the American Empire dissolves into warring states?

What a time to be alive!


[ Parent ]
To expand upon that: (4.00 / 2)
during the intellectual zenith of the New Left, a popular thesis was that the US was the New Rome, and that the authentic left were akin to the desert fathers of Christianity.

[ Parent ]
I remember thinking (4.00 / 1)
long before the primaries got underway that of the choices coming forward, none really fit the shoes of the President the country NEEDED. Of the "viable" candidates, Obama had the benefit of being the best of the worst, IMO. And I still stand by that assessment.

[ Parent ]
Yes you are correct. Festinger's cognitive dissonance theory is well known (4.00 / 4)
but his research included the joining of groups. say the medical student becoming the doctor. The greater the initiation process, the greater the adherence to the group. It reduces cognitive dissonance.

I think that's what you are describing above,eh?

Oh I know Paul is right and I am heartsick about it. But I have seen it coming and have been in some sort of conscious denial or rationalization. Not any more.  


[ Parent ]
Yes, but.... (4.00 / 3)
What we look for in our politicians isn't someone who's immune to all the temptations flesh is heir to, but one who understands himself well enough not to succumb to them.

One of the first things any adult has to confront is what is meant by autonomy; how to be a social creature without becoming addicted to the various social narcotics on offer by both friends and enemies. Many, if not most of us, manage this well enough to be considered successful. I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect at least as much from our politicians, who, after all, have chosen to expose themselves to the additional risk inherent in a life lived in public.


[ Parent ]
I don't know who said it (4.00 / 1)
and I am thoroughly paraphrasing here, but the saying goes

"An honest man entering politics is like a virgin entering a brothel. They either leave quickly or they wont a virgin for much longer."


[ Parent ]
the administration is full of Bob Rubin's boys (4.00 / 3)
Geithner, Summers the most prominent, with others, such as Citibank's chief economist, in lower-ranked positions.

One of the big problems with the last administration was that people in key positions were hired based on their connections and pedigrees rather than their proven competence.

People assumed that Obama would cease that practice, but he appears to simply have changed the clique he's using--instead of Goldman Sachs' people, he's drawing from Citibank's people.  


Well, You've Got To Give Him SOME Credit (4.00 / 5)
After all, he's stayed away from those Arabian horses.

At least so far we know right now.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Leaving aside the policy blunders... (4.00 / 13)

  ...doubling down on Geithner, who's rapidly plunging into Cheney territory when it comes to public credibility, is a POLITICALLY idiotic decision by Obama.

 Has the DLC so thoroughly corroded the Democratic Party to the point where the Democrats will impale themselves politically in order to continue currying favor with Wall Street? Why even HAVE a Democratic Party then?

  I know Obama's not technically a DLCer. But the duck test leads to a different conclusion.

  It's getting to the point where we'll have to re-orient our focus to getting the best possible society after the now-almost-inevitable total collapse overwhelms what's left of twentieth-century America. With "Democrats" in power when this happens it's going to be very, very difficult to quell right-wing populism -- and that'll be the death of the whole world. Think Nazi Germany with nukes.

  I feel betrayed. I knew Obama wasn't a classic liberal, but I never expected him to be THIS hard-headed about sucking up to the privileged.
   

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


obama is a new democrat .... he proudly proclaimed that recently (3.60 / 10)
And what the hell is the difference between a new democrat and a dlcer?

I think there still is a little bit of cognitive dissonance here about obama, even the ones that are starting to look at him much more objectively.  There still are a lot of excuses being made for him ... like this well-written and well thought out essay isn't even considering the possibility that the reason that obama wants geithner to stay on board is becoz geithner is doing exactly what obama wants!  Or more concisely, what wall street wants!

Z


[ Parent ]
But the "D" is supposed to mean SOMETHING (4.00 / 1)

 Maybe it just doesn't anymore. There are individuals like Harold Ford and Evan Bayh for whom the "Democratic" label is completely meaningless, but for the most part, there is a set of philosophies that describes the existence of the Democratic Party.

 What you're basically saying is that "new Democrat" means "no Democrat at all". Because Obama's not handling the banking problem any different than McCain would have.

 So we're a one-party state, then. Maybe it's time to break out the passport. I don't do dictatorships.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
New Democrats/Old Republicans (0.00 / 0)
is there really a difference?

[ Parent ]
theocratic dictatorship, here we come! (4.00 / 6)
Recipe:

  • A lot of God talk and flag-waving;
  • A lot of railing against the evil Fed and the banking class (which will be conflated with American Jews);
  • A lot of talk about we shouldn't waste money on "wasteful" and "bloated" government social programs, and how we should instead give it directly to the churches so they can help the poor like Jesus told them to do;
  • A little dose of the Dolchstosslegende about how the Democrats pussied out and retreated from Iraq and Afghanistan when those wars could have been won, + a sacred vow to go into the Middle East, wipe out all those "heathens," and take back the oil that belongs to the American people by right;
  • A lot of raving against Muslims (for "being terrorists"), immigrants (for "stealing jobs from honest, decent Americans"), homosexuals (for their "decadent lifestyles"), and liberals (for "hating America");

Bake for four years or so, and you've got yourself an America run by religious fanatics, locked in holy (thermonuclear) wars abroad while engaging in ethnic cleansing at home.


[ Parent ]
What a wasted opportunity. (4.00 / 11)

  This banking meltdown COULD have led to a new progressive era -- as previous American economic collapses have done. It could have been a massive, once-in-a-generation teachable moment about the disastrous consequences of unbridled, unregulated capitalism.

 And we have a "Democrat" in the White House, as well as "Democratic" majorities in both houses. The mechanism was in place to truly move beyond Reaganism.

 The last time the Democrats availed themselves of that teachable moment, they set the stage to dominate American politics for a half-century.

 This generation of "Democratic" leaders has used this opportunity to move the country even further to the right.

 This will not end well. This is the first time I'm wondering if it would have been better if McCain had won -- he'd be coddling Wall Street just like Obama is now, but at least it would be Republicans he'd be setting up for permanent irrelevancy...  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
if McCain had won, we'd be at war with Iran right now, (4.00 / 9)
probably Russia, and it wouldn't be pretty.

We chose the best of the options that were presented to us at the time. The best we can do is to forge ahead and try to free the Democrats from the death grip of Wall Street.

I do believe that as the economic crisis deepens, public pressure will force some Congressional Democrats to move in a more progressive direction. So we will have some sparks left there.

As for an alternative to Obama, we'll worry about that if and when the time comes.


[ Parent ]
My concern... (4.00 / 12)

 ...is that Obama's destroying the Democratic Party's brand with his very Republican approach to the banking crisis.

  The public is noticing that it's getting screwed but not (yet) blaming Obama for it. But the more Obama prescribes his DLC/neoliberal "solutions", the more he's setting himself up for an eventual massive loss of public confidence. Because what he's doing is guaranteed to fail.

 And if the Democrats lose the public perception that they're for the little guy (at least more so than the Republicans), then the party's going to die a very ugly death. Perhaps as soon as the 2010 midterms.

 Public pressure is ALREADY very intense, as we saw during the AIG bailout scandal. And the Democrats' response was to blame it all on Chris Dodd. And a late-cycle Friday show bill taxing the bonuses.

 That's hardly brand-enhancing activity. But at least the Republicans were just as clumsy about it, so the Dems didn't lost much in the way of relative perception.

 A few more weeks like these, and the public is going to lose confidence in Obama and the Democrats. And if both parties are perceived to equally suck, the party in power gets the brunt of the public's wrath.

 This will not end well.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
it'll take some time for the Democrats to be completely tainted (4.00 / 4)
by Obama's policies, especially if there's vigorous Congressional opposition to the bailout.

It'll take some time for the GOP to reorganize itself as a theocratic populist party and wash off the stink of Bush. Eight years of Bush doesn't disappear overnight.

We do have a little time to try to push Congress and Obama to the left, and to rebuild Democratic institutions so that they can field more progressive candidates. And even if things go south in the next four years, we just might be able to squeak it out with someone else if we have to.


[ Parent ]
I hope you're right... (4.00 / 1)

 ...but economic cataclysms have a way of rearranging politics at a much more accelerated pace than normal...  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
its great that the D brand is being destroyed. (0.00 / 0)
And if the Democrats lose the public perception that they're for the little guy (at least more so than the Republicans), then the party's going to die a very ugly death. Perhaps as soon as the 2010 midterms.

D and R have been shit for a long time.  all that is happening
now is that the public perception is aligning with the reality.  this is great.  do you people finally understand that neither party is for the people?  this is why this disaster is so great:  it forces you to open your eyes.
this same thing has been happening for a long time, its only that now we have pulled back the curtain and its all exposed in the light of day.  beautiful.

fuck D and R

break open the one party system like a piggy bank on a rainy day.


[ Parent ]
I'm Trying To Decide (0.00 / 0)
if you have the strategic intelligence of a gnat?

Or a misquito?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
It's easy to drive from the back seat. (4.00 / 2)
Paul, this is my first comment ever on Open Left.  Though I've read a lot of your, David's, and Chris' posts.  I just wonder, when (if ever) will one of you guys run for office.  Why not put yourselves in the position to have to make the decisions?  I think you'll find it's harder to drive from the front then from the back.  I extend that question to Mr. Krugman and the rest of the know-it-all commenters as well.

Suppose you have a house. (4.00 / 9)

  Your house develops some problems with the pipes. You call a plumber. He shows up and floods your whole house whil attempting to fix your problem.

  So now you have to rebuild your whole plumbing system. The insurance company generously cut you a check.

  Do you hire the same plumber?

  I don't think it's an especially "tough" decision.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
Yeah, That Old Martin Luther King, What A Wuss! (4.00 / 7)
He should have just STFU!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Now that was funny! (4.00 / 2)
And almost a haiku, to boot.

[ Parent ]
CRAP! (0.00 / 0)
Paul, I just hit a wrong button and troll rated that when I meant to recommend. . . .

damn


[ Parent ]
ok (0.00 / 0)
I think I fixed it. Ugh

[ Parent ]
That's why any criticism of any politician (4.00 / 4)
by any private citizen is necessarily misguided.

[ Parent ]
As Kim Jong Il So Rightly Notes! (4.00 / 3)
Ah, the boundless wisdom of the East!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I *think* that was snark. (0.00 / 0)

 At least I hope it was.

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
It Was So Snark, It Was... (4.00 / 2)
Booooooo......jum!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Why do you guys come here? (4.00 / 5)
I don't hang out at tnr.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
The facts (4.00 / 11)
1. Chris has been elected to (minor) offices in Philadelphia.

2.  Krugman just won the Nobel Prize in Economics.  He is a professor at Princeton,  Deriding him as a know-it-all and pitting him in the same boat as other commenters is ridiculous.  He may not know it all, bit he knows a lot.  A lot more than Geithner, I might add.


[ Parent ]
I'm not the type to insist on any specific plan; (4.00 / 3)
many plans can work. But I want to know that the starting point is "Wall Street is a den of thieves" or "these CEOs didn't merely make bad bets, they broke the law".

That would give me a lot of confidence.


[ Parent ]
This know-it-all (4.00 / 3)
just came off two terms as a utility commissioner. And yourself?

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Not2 (4.00 / 1)
Not2, that will never happen. Talk is cheap.

And is it just me, or is there a (4.00 / 3)
'blurring of the troll' phenomenon happening all around?

First I can't tell if someone's a winger troll or a Democrat still fighting the primary battles.

Then I can't tell if someone's a winger troll or a super-passionate Obama supporter.


The real problem is that there are few to no Democrats. (4.00 / 1)
It is always supporting the lesser of two evils, or anybody but ____, fill in the blank.  

I think our political system is totally broken and corrupt.  If we want real change, as in the change Obama promised but isn't willing to deliver, we have to have a real third party.  I don't think it can be done as an inside job.  


[ Parent ]
We don't need a third party (4.00 / 11)

 We need a second one.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
Jim Madison screwed up (4.00 / 2)
he set out to "multiply faction" but created a 1.5 party system.

[ Parent ]
I don't agree (4.00 / 3)
third parties never work.  We need to persue the mlk strategy!  Disrupt the system.  Make things stop working to put pressure on the politicians.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Have no fear it's going to be disrupted for sure (4.00 / 6)
Obama hasn't a clue about finance. He comes neither from old money  (FDR) or new money (JFK) so he is not a financial animal. No dinner table conversations and arguments about money.

Obamas are bourgeois in mentality. The Wall St financiers know what to do so put them in charge.

The minds who created these problems are not the minds that will be able to solve them.


[ Parent ]
a third party would be corrupted by the same monied interests (4.00 / 3)
that have corrupted the other two, long before it had a chance to make real reform.

What has to happen is that the system has to break down and leave room for something new. Which appears to be exactly what's going to happen.


[ Parent ]
Actually (0.00 / 0)
They system will be strengthen soon enough. As soon as economy recovers and new regulation kicks in. you will not see the end of capitalism. Regulated capitalism works better than all other systems like socialism or communism. sorry to burst your bubble.

[ Parent ]
I am for regulated capitalism. (4.00 / 9)
The Geithner plan is banditry, with overseers in order to make sure the banditry proceeds smoothly.

[ Parent ]
It's a crisis (4.00 / 4)
People tend to react to crises by picking something and clinging to it. Obama supporters who look like trolls may just have picked the president as their lifeline.

Of course, I'm oversimplifying and being grossly patronising, but I hope I can be forgiven for that. I also hope that it'll annoy the Obama supporters who are functionally indistinguishable from trolls.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
I have wondered the same thing about him for a while (4.00 / 15)
but he seems to value process almost more than what the result of that process will be.

That's how we get stuff like ...'80 votes' would be nice' at the beginning of the stimulus battle....I mean, really, the important thing is the stimulus package right? Who CARES how many votes it gets as long as something SO critical passes? Or it should have been, but somehow it was 'bi-partisanship'..it's a waste of political capital and energy IMHO, and it happens too frequently...does he know in a general way what he wants Geithner to do? Is it preserve the status quo ante or does he want major structural reform on Wall St? Or is it all, 'I support the effort Geithner is doing, he's working hard'...hey I have no doubt Geithner is putting in 10-12 hr days maybe more but that isn't the point...what is Geithner working toward...what will the end product look like?

Obama just seems to bypass those questions.


Working hard versus working smart (4.00 / 1)
Michelle is doing the same thing with the WH garden. Seems to be a family trait.

[ Parent ]
You know, I disagreed with you before (0.00 / 0)
about the garden, because there is an argument to be made for the traditional, clean cultivated garden.

Then I saw the pictures. They are out there hacking at sod with rakes?

Now I think you're right. It's not about this kind of garden or that kind, it's about being a tourist. It's about taking things on the most superficial level, not bothering to educate yourself before embarking on an endeavor.

They are not going to put in a garden with rakes. What will happen is, after the cameras leave a guy on a tractor will come in and till the area, and everyone will pretend it was done "by hand." By "invisible hands" so to speak.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
I'm not so concerned about people (4.00 / 14)
"enabling" (my word choice) Obama's bad/obstinate behavior by taking a "you're either with him or against him" stance. I'm much more concerned about the Progressive Caucus (and perhaps the new Populist Caucus?) "enabling" Obama, and I'd really like to see Open Left start talking more about that.

My sense is that the Progressive Caucus and other liberal Dems are so concerned with wanting to support Obama that they aren't pushing him to from the left at all. This lack of action gives all the power to the Blue Dogs, who have made no bones about the fact that if Obama doesn't do what they want, they'll obstruct.

I don't know if the members of the Progressive Caucus simply play too nicely because that's their nature, or they fear some sort of backlash from voters for not appearing to be 100% supportive of the President. In any case, I think some big show of support needs to be made from  progressives/liberals to let the Progressive Caucus and other liberal Dems know we have their back if they'll stand up and make a push for their values. I don't know the best way to go about doing that (petitions, phone campaigns?), but I bet some of the larger lefty blogs like this one could help organize such a thing, and I'd love to see that happen.


Not To Make Any Excuses (4.00 / 6)
Because I agree 100% with the point you're making, but one reason progressives aren't as aggressively hard-nosed is that they actually care about the results of governing, which makes pure gamesmanship a much less attractive option.

When the interests you're representing are basically flush, you can afford to take risks, and if nothing happens because you cause a trainwreck, so what?  But when the interests you're representing are barely hanging on, that puts you in a position of desperation which others are only too willing to take advantage of.

This is, of course, only one contributing factor.  And many who've been confronted thus have nonetheless found ways to win major gains anyways.  So it's not an all-purpose excuse, by any means.  But it is a useful reminder that sometimes there are real difficult choices progressive legislators face which others simply do not.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 3)
The progressive/liberal nature is one of not being selfish. Sadly, that puts us at a distinct disadvantage politically.

But now, more than ever, we desperately need to have our voices heard and our values represented. To say we are teetering on the brink is not hyperbole. Is there no way we can provide a strong alternative voice to what the Blue Dogs will be doing in their media blitz without undermining the whole operation?


[ Parent ]
The progressive caucus is playing politics (4.00 / 4)
Because of the current setup in Congress, where Republicans plus Blue Dogs are a majority in both houses, they can usefully threaten Obama only when the Republicans or Blue Dogs are split. That happened with the TARP vote under Bush, but it's a rare situation. I think they're also trying to set themselves up as Obama's "friends" in the hope that he will work with them more as the conservatives keep spitting on him and his ideas, even when he tries really hard to accommodate the rightists.

Politicians are in a different game than writers and activists and it is, at the least, a reasonable strategy for them.


[ Parent ]
I wasn't calling Mr. Krugman a know-it-all (4.00 / 1)
My point was...  I'm sitting at my computer typing this comment.  Other commenters are sitting at their device of choice backseat driving.  This is a big fire that's being played out in a fish bowl.  Mr. Krugman may have just won a Nobel Prize, but unless he jumps into the bowl, it's just talk right?  It's easy to shout advice while sitting in an air conditioned office.  Those on the ground don't have that liberty.

I'm not so sure that you know where the ground is, (4.00 / 4)
and I know you don't know how many of us have walked on it, and for how long. Action isn't a justification for ignorance, or an indictment of reason, and sneering doesn't make you a man, not unless you're Rush Limbaugh. (Or you're fifteen, and really, really resentful, which amounts to pretty much the same thing.)

[ Parent ]
No. the Subject/Object problem presents itself here (4.00 / 1)
The rat who is supposed to be bred to be smarter runs the maze better than the other rat who is and was not. But it has been picked up and put into the maze by the experimenter who knows which one is smart and which one is not. The results are influenced unknowingly by the experimenter.

So we go to the double-blind experiment. The experimenter does not know which is which. Which rat is which. Or which pill is the placebo and which one is not. The doctor does not know until the experiment is over and the code cracked so to speak.

Krugman knows this. Obama does not. See above for why I say he does not.


[ Parent ]
It doesn't seem as though you know Krugman very well (4.00 / 6)
From the perspective of his teachers:
Krugman as public persuader was so successful that the New York Times offered him an op-ed column, the most prestigious piece of real estate in mainstream U.S. journalism. ... One of his former teachers, Jagdish Bhagwati, tells F&D, "We were all pleasantly surprised that Krugman has been able to play the Mike Moore of the economics profession." Another teacher, Nobel Laureate Robert Solow, calls his former student "an all-purpose pest to the Bush administration." To many on the right, Krugman has seemed a shrill partisan who makes repetitious whining his stock-in-trade. But to others, he is now a cult figure: a brilliant and prescient analyst and, more important, a man of courage who stepped up to the plate in the aftermath of 9/11, when his fellow journalists became derelict in their duty to question, probe, and dissent.

His view of himself:
But he does not regret missing out on a White House post in 1992 [...] and doubts he will ever want to be a full-time Washington policymaker. "I just don't have the right temperament..., I think I do more good on the outside."

http://economistsview.typepad....

Economists hold the understanding of comparative advantage to be one of the great contributions of economics.


[ Parent ]
What the fuck is wrong with "just talk"? (4.00 / 4)
If the emperor has no clothes, you say so. Particularly if that's your area of competence.

Why would Krugman run for office? He's an economics expert and has more of a bully pulpit where he is now than as one of 435, where he'll spend as much time voting on defence appropriations as on bank regulation, and more time naming post offices than either.

It is, in fact, permitted to have an opinion yet not run for office. It is even (whisper it softly) permissible to voice this opinion without filing a statement of candidacy with the FEC. And it doesn't make that opinion less valid. It's the reasoning that matters.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
A (very) short list (4.00 / 2)
of influential people who had strong political opinions and yet did not run for office:

1. Plato
2. Erasmus
3. Martin Luther
4. Karl Marx
5. Nietzsche
6. Thomas Hobbes
7. Mahatma Gandhi
8. Martin Luther King

And I'll throw in Noam Chomsky for grins.

In other words, I agree.


[ Parent ]
And if Krugman and others were to just STFU (4.00 / 1)
people would come along in a couple of years when these bailout plans fail and complain that no one ever stood up and said something.

[ Parent ]
I've always been annoyed by Obama's practice (4.00 / 6)
of narrating his inner monologue.

He has a compulsion to explain to us how he arrived at a certain conclusion, the course which his thinking took: "I thought this, then I realized that, then I put the two together, then my friend Tim Geithner weighed in, and then I thought about his weighing in," etc. etc.

This is a device he used constantly in all his books, as well as his political speaking.

What he is not so great on is giving us arguments for one policy or another, beyond the most generic ones--"oversight", "protections for taxpayers."

I really don't care to know about the process by which he decides on his policies; that's his personal business. All I want to know are his reasons why he thinks his policies are justified. And that's where he falls short.


IMHO, The REAL Problem Is (4.00 / 11)
he thinks that the story of how he got there is a substitute for a rational defense of it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
he really is a perfect thing, isn't he? (4.00 / 7)
by that I mean, in every aspect he plays to perfection the role that the system has assigned to him.

There are no gaps as there were with Bill Clinton. No unseemly outbursts of temper, no obstinate attempts (however minor) to chart his own course independent of the establishment. He speaks the language of the system fluently, naturally, and with authority.

Unlike Bush he's far more intelligent and better spoken. While Bush had some unappealing character traits, cruelty and belligerence, that turned people off, Obama radiates sincerity and good will. There is not a particle of malice in him.

Had the people who run this country genetically engineered someone in a laboratory to serve their purposes, they still would not have come close to the phenomenon that is Obama.

It's something truly, truly remarkable. Too bad we can't just sit back and enjoy the spectacle, but have to, you know, starve as the system comes crashing down.



[ Parent ]
but now the media's calling him on all the doubletalk and evasive smoothness -- (4.00 / 2)
so that's not gonna do it for him anymore.

His week-long "campaign stops" to change the subject aren't doing it either.


[ Parent ]
What Hillary criticized him for. No substance. (4.00 / 1)
I didn't think she would win though.

[ Parent ]
yes, but her husband (4.00 / 4)
was the blueprint for Obama so I am skeptical she would be better.

My blog  

[ Parent ]
Yeh I agree with you. I didn't like her much. (4.00 / 1)
But she sure showed Kerry and Gore how they should have fought.

[ Parent ]
it's past time to sour the milk, i think -- whether it's Geithner or bad policies -- (4.00 / 5)
it has to become too toxic for the people and policies to be enacted -- and for the private interests pushing for bad policy to do so. It has to make Obama realize that it's all political poison and that it reflects directly on him.

So Congress has to have Geithner, Summers, Bernanke, etc in to testify every single week -- and be supboena'd for all information too. Every single week at least part of their time has to be accounting to Waxman and Frank and others without exception -- and they should be made to sweat each time and look like the wholly-owned subsidiaries of Wall St. they are.

We can't count on Obama or the DOJ to do the right thing or fix things -- it's on Congress, who is still pushable by us, at least in the House.

Banks and Wall St. are pissed about the Bonus thing and threatening not to participate in the new toxic assets horror (even tho it guarantees profit for them)? We need to make Congress load on new regulations and restrictions and oversight on every penny spent by Treasury/FDIC/Fed/etc -- exposing their dirty laundry, and making it truly too costly to participate in.

etc...


Brilliant Paul. Only as usual though. (4.00 / 1)
It really helps to have you validate my perceptions. My stomach and heart are sinking and I have been depressed for about 2 weeks now. No audacity of hope here.

Oak tree (3.20 / 5)
sounds an awful lot like a recurring troll over on Unclaimed Territory, who's gone by a number of different handles over the past year or so. It's not my place to give the proprietors advice, but if I'm right, be prepared for a continuing avalanche of lunacy.

Yes, I Know (4.00 / 1)
be prepared for a continuing avalanche of lunacy.

Avalanche already in progress. So far, I'm LMAO.

Banning will have to take place sooner or later.  But I'm having too much fun to do it just yet.

Self-indulgent you say?  Yes, well, maybe.  But cheap thrills are the only kind I can afford in this economy!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Can we keep him? Can we, can we? (4.00 / 3)
I have to say that he's one of my favourite trolls. Much more ostentatiously trollish and unwilling to engage in a reasoned argument than, for example, Burry.

He's a font of good snark, and also good for a nice relaxing rant.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
Very Well! (0.00 / 0)
As long as just one other person gets as much pleasure as me, it's not just a selfish indulgence on my part.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Yes call one of the few black (0.00 / 0)
souls here a troll.

Stay classy.


[ Parent ]
You're not black. (4.00 / 2)
You're a parody troll.

Probably a College Republican, acting the way Limbaugh taught you black people act.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Ha! (0.00 / 0)
Oh I'm definitely black honey.  East Oakland black.

[ Parent ]
5/10 (0.00 / 0)
average level troll.  funnier than most.

or a very sincere, very deluded person.  

unfortunately, probably the latter.


[ Parent ]
Why not? (4.00 / 2)
It's not related to the word for things that look under bridges, but that term is originally Old Norse and in its proper context tends to refer to a large, strong, pseudo-human and monstrous individual who lives up in the mountains of central Scandinavia.

Does being compared to a Norwegian really hurt you that much?

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
I Have To Agree With Sadie Baker. (4.00 / 1)
You're really exposing yourself to be the stupid troll you are. The moment when you said that BAR attacks Obama because of his "dark-skinned wife" displayed to me that you're either one of the most delusional, politically obtuse black people I've ever came across (and me being black I've encountered a few in my lifetime) or a troll that's attempting to parody how blacks react to criticism towards Obama made by white liberals.

But what gave you away is when you tried to use this same argument towards BAR. If BAR hates Obama for marrying Michelle Obama (I've never read an article about Michelle Obama at BAR yet), then why in the world do they give spotlight to Cynthia McKinney, who has even more prominent African features than Michelle Obama? You're not making a bit of sense, and throwing out "racist" towards white progressives who make legitimate claims regarding Obama's policies proves that you have nothing to counter when reading such analysis.

Then again, I have to wonder, if you're the same troll who months ago slandered David Sirota for being a "racist". That troll's name was cupcake and she made the same claims in that post as you do here when Sirota mentioned BAR: that BAR is "jealous" of Obama because he's light-skinned (funny because if you seen pictures of Glen Ford, he's lighter than Obama), and they hate Michelle Obama for being dark-skinned. I have no doubt in my mind you're the same person.  


[ Parent ]
Geithner=Brownie n/t (0.00 / 0)


Bottom line (0.00 / 0)
I think Obama has bought into a great deal of his own hype and is displaying a disturbing streak of arrogance in some of his decision-making. I voted for him but frankly I'm washing my hands of him at this point due to his blinkered intransigence. These misguided bailout efforts are turning into a Greek tragedy with no end in sight.

"Dirty Fucking Hippies" (0.00 / 0)
I'm having a flashback right about now, to Barack Obama posting a diary at Daily Kos, telling all us dirty fucking hippies to lay off his buds in the Senate.

Barack Obama called the left wing of the Democratic Party "dirty fucking hippies"?  In a post at Daily Kos, no less?  Wow, that IS news!  No wonder you guys are so pissed!


Geithner = Warren? (0.00 / 0)
I am mad as hell too. Not only have we been deceived but betrayed by President Obama for being software on Wall Street criminals and listening to his new friends.  That was a great opportunity that we have missed. If he had tightened the screw on the Wall Street as Nancy Pelosi did, we could have been heroes. All his cronies had toxic-asset mindsets - were all part of Wall Street friends and Clinton deregulation group.    

Geithner = Warren? | 167 comments
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