Karzai's Horrible Gambit Blows Up

by: Daniel De Groot

Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 22:51


Well, first the good news, marital rape is probably not going to be legalized in Afghanistan: (yet)


Karzai has bowed to intense international pressure to scrap the law, described by the UN human rights chief in Afghanistan as "reminiscent of the decrees made by the Taliban regime".

It is said to forbid women to refuse to have sex with their husbands and force them to get their spouses' permission before leaving the house, looking for a job, going to the doctor or receiving education.

However, the whole episode is a likely to be a pretty magnificent recruiting tool for the Taliban and other assorted anti-NATO/Western groups in the country.  

Daniel De Groot :: Karzai's Horrible Gambit Blows Up
Karzai's reversal comes at the heels of a massive worldwide diplomatic freak out from (among others) Canada, the US, the UK, Australia and New Zealand (which has 140 troops there).

So while the countries currently putting lives on the line to keep Karzai's government in power had enough leverage to put a stop to this, the knowledge that Western foreign governments hold an effective veto over purely domestic law and policy is going to make for some great propaganda and recruiting.  

Not that the Western governments were wrong to exert pressure over this, but that I have to wonder at Karzai's acumen that he thought he could get away with this.  It was clearly supposed to be a low-profile domestic sop to the Shi'ite minority (about 19-25% of the population) and ends up leaving him revealed as NATO's servant.  He has no one to blame but himself:


The bill lay dormant for more than a year, but in February it was rushed through parliament as President Karzai sought allies in a constitutional row over the upcoming election. Senator Humeira Namati claimed it wasn't even read out in the Upper House, let alone debated, before it was passed to the Supreme Court. "They accused me of being an unbeliever," she said.

Whatever slim chance of success there is in Afghanistan (however defined) is really not helped by this.  Of course, the incident happening at all is demonstrative of how little hope there already was, but I can't see anything good coming of this.  Large portions of the Northern Alliance are Shia, so it's not as if they don't have the capacity to take up arms against the NATO forces too, if they're sufficiently annoyed at having this law quashed at our behest.


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But informally even in western countries women and men seek permission only it's not labeled as such (0.00 / 0)
I mean a wife will not plan to go to school without discussing this with her husband. If he is not happy about it she may wait, try to convince him, put the pressure on or the many other ways she will try to get his permission or rather his support and willingness that she do so. And the same is true of husbands who desire to undertake something different, out of the mainstream of their marriage, a risk, a new business etc.

To put it formally into law is to solidify the mores of the culture. Here if a woman really goes against her husband's wishes it may lead to divorce. And vice-versa.

Maybe he was just throwing a meatless bone at the Shia. I have a hard time with this because as a woman the Shia disgust me. I prefer secular Sunnis. And a Muslim woman was running for the political head of her party in Pakistan so Muslim women cannot be totally under their husband's control. And other Muslim women see this and resent it when they are. And so the change in consciousness begins.

Yes I am glad he had to back down.  


Culture is not religion (0.00 / 0)
There are plenty of secular Shi'ites and the most anti-woman Islamic government of all, Saudi Arabia, is Sunni. And spousal rape was legal here until very recently, based on dumb interpretations of the Bble.  

[ Parent ]
The Saudi kingdom is a juggling act (0.00 / 0)
first one group is rewarded, then another and it is giving and taking away in a constant pattern. The Shites are a minority and they are the most poorly educated there.

It's all about women = property. That has gone on forever and it's a way of thinking that dies very slowly. A complete change of paradigm has happened for women recently in western countries.

And I have talked with women who told me they never refused their husbands. And some who said every night or every morning I had to. That's acquiescing to a form of rape that the women agreed to. It's also a desensitization procedure to make sex unfeeling and boring. Do it until you don't feel a thing. Islamic women have to do it this way all the time. Only having children is important. And wives who don''t bear are easily divorced. If they aren't then the husband is scrutinized as to why he keeps her.

This is going to take a long long time.


[ Parent ]
I'm not talking about the Shia in Saudi Arabia (0.00 / 0)
I am talking about the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia, and how it is much worse than the treatment of women in Iran (for example), at least from almost any account that I've heard.

Mistreatment of women, along with many other abhorrent social phenomena, are more about the prevalent culture in a place than it is about the religion there.  The religion is only used to butress the horrible cultural actions ex post facto.  


[ Parent ]
And it's not like I'm trying to expudiate Iran here, btw (0.00 / 0)
they are also horrible.  Just less horrible.  

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Yes Iranians go to Paris to study etc. Saudi women are not so lucky. (0.00 / 0)
If they are really ugly and unmarriageable they may be able to study some. I agree that women are treated worse by the Saudis. The Saudis have no background of education and achievement that the Iranians have, so it is harder to control them. The film Persepolis is absolutely wonderful on this theme, done by an Iranian woman, living through it all and making films in Paris.

The Saudis are caught in a juggling act among all their different factions. And loosening and you would have chaos there. It's a no win.


[ Parent ]
Rape means nothing to Americans (4.00 / 1)
Daniel De Groot Said: "So while the countries currently putting lives on the line to keep Karzai's government in power had enough leverage to put a stop to this, the knowledge that Western foreign governments hold an effective veto over purely domestic law and policy is going to make for some great propaganda and recruiting. "

Daniel, you reveal yourself to be completely immersed in American Propaganda and TV culture, while imagining you are not. Nations are not putting their lives on the line to keep Karzai's government in power. "Nations" are engaged in a for hire project of putting their soldiers in Afghanistan in exchange for American dollars and favors. It's nothing more than that. It has nothing to do with Afghanistan. America doesn't even know why it's there. America is delusional. It imagines things ....about Al Queda and "terrorists".

There is no Al Queda to speak of, and the Taliban in all likelihood had absolutely nothing to do with 911. And if they did....did ALL TALIBAN participate? Did ALL Muslims Nations participate?...Why is AMerica in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Somalia and other parts of Africa and practically everywhere else in one form or another?

America is engaged in illegal wars, they are torturing, kidnapping, murdering, raping and destroying property and people(and videotaping it to boot) for no logical reason, not for oil, not for pipeline routes....nothing...it's an absurdity. Soldiers are there because soldiers are people who get used and used up. They mean nothing to the governments they are fighting for. That's human history.

Then you go on to say:
"Whatever slim chance of success there is in Afghanistan (however defined) is really not helped by this."

The "Rape" issue is simply a propaganda item chosen by the United States to make it's presence there seem justifiable and to weaken Karzai, who they according to some reports, apparently want to get rid of.

But...how can Americans be concerned about Afghan's raping Afghan women, when the United States is raping Afghan women during house to house searches as they did in Iraq....undoubtedly with more frequency than ever reported....that's what some soldiers do. ....and how can anyone be concerned about such an issue when the United States is involved in slaughtering thousands of people for no reason...

This is more of the convoluted madness of America....this kind of infiltration into anyone's reasoning.

No offense intended, we are all subject to a bombardment of lies.



Not to mention the UN military patronizing child prostitutes in the countries (0.00 / 0)
they are in. Endemic.

[ Parent ]
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