William Black Vindicated Re Obama's Non-Enforcement of Bank Closure Law

by: Paul Rosenberg

Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 12:30


Over the weekend, I wrote a diary, "It's the Criminality, Stupid! Bill Moyers/William Black On The Wall Street Meltdown", dealing with regulatory expert William Black's appearance on Bill Moyers Journal (transcript).  Although it was not a main focus of my attention, a commentator pointed to a DKos diary ("Please be smarter than the Freepers") attacking Black as a "liar" because of his remarks about the Prompt Corrective Action Law, about which Black said:

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, certainly in the financial sphere, I am. I think, first, the policies are substantively bad. Second, I think they completely lack integrity. Third, they violate the rule of law. This is being done just like Secretary Paulson did it. In violation of the law. We adopted a law after the Savings and Loan crisis, called the Prompt Corrective Action Law. And it requires them to close these institutions. And they're refusing to obey the law.

BILL MOYERS: In other words, they could have closed these banks without nationalizing them?

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, you do a receivership. No one -- Ronald Reagan did receiverships. Nobody called it nationalization.

BILL MOYERS: And that's a law?

WILLIAM K. BLACK: That's the law.

BILL MOYERS: So, Paulson could have done this? Geithner could do this?

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Not could. Was mandated--

Now there's a new recommended diary at DKos, "William K Black Responds To Daily Kos Critics" by TocqueDeville, which draws on correspondence with Black about the controversy, and includes the text of a more extensive response Black  posted on the Bill Moyers Journal blog, "William K. Black on The Prompt Corrective Action Law".

TocqueDeville summarizes:

Paul Rosenberg :: William Black Vindicated Re Obama's Non-Enforcement of Bank Closure Law
So, in a nutshell, he wasn't talking about holding companies on the Moyers show. He was talking about institutions that are insured under FDIC.

And the law is mandatory in that it required the government to choose "prompt corrective action" that is the least cost. And while there is a little loophole of flexibility there, the Obama admin is not using that loophole so it doesn't even apply. And even if they wanted to, the deadline has run out.

That is gist of my correspondence with Professor Black. He also went on to write a detailed explanation which he posted today at the Bill Moyers Journal website. I will post it in its entirety below.

But before I do I want to make one point. Even if there's a hole in Professor Blacks legal argument, which I suspect the White House council's office would argue here was, one thing should be very clear:

Bill Black was not "lying." The tendency to smear every critic of the Obama administration's policies, as opposed to just disagreeing, reminds me of the Bush White House under Karl Rove.

And here is the core of Black's response:

I was the staff leader for Federal Home Loan Bank Board Chairman Ed Gray's successful reregulation of the S&L industry. That reregulation provided the tools that allowed the agency to place in receivership many of the worst control frauds. Gray inherited (and for a time supported) a dominant strategy of covering up the scale of the S&L industry's insolvency. He personally recruited vigorous senior regulators such as Michael Patriarca and Joe Selby to reverse that strategy. The PCA law was adopted largely in response to the enormous cost to the taxpayers of our predecessor's failed strategy of not closing insolvent S&Ls.

The new law had an impressive start, thanks in great part to the transformed reregulatory spirit. How many readers recall the 1991-92 subprime crisis? It didn't happen because we took prompt regulatory action against subprime S&L lenders that were following practices (e.g., qualifying borrowers at the teaser rate, offering "neg am" mortgages, etc) that we knew would lead to widespread failures.

The broadcast of Bill Moyers Journal interview has raised enormously the public's awareness of the PCA. A commentator has responded by arguing that the PCA law does not mandate that the regulators place insolvent banks into receivership. I am delighted that the debate has turned to focus in part on the issue of why virtually all economists and white-collar criminologists believe that it is essential to take prompt regulatory action to resolve failed banks, particularly ones that are insolvent due to "control fraud", i.e., where the person that controls a seemingly legitimate entity uses it as a "weapon" to defraud. In the financial world accounting fraud is the "weapon of choice."

Banks owned by holding companies are fully subject to the law

The commentator's primary concern can be answered briefly because it criticizes a claim I never made. S(he) notes that banking holding companies and insurance companies are not subject to PCA. I did not say that they were. As the interview excerpt shows, we were talking about "[savings] institutions" and "banks" that can be put into "receivership" (I'm going to use "bank" here to refer to any FDIC-insured depository institution.) The FDIC (and if it lacks the funds, the U.S. Treasury) is only legally obligated to pay depositors of FDIC-insured banks up to the deposit insurance limits. The federal banking regulators have receivership powers only over federally insured depository institutions. The FDIC and the U.S. Treasury have no obligation to pay the debts of bank holding companies or insurance companies - and shouldn't be paying those debts.

The commentator uses this strawman argument (refuting a claim no one made) to imply that the fact that PCA doesn't apply to bank holding companies means that the federal financial regulators did not have to comply with the PCA law. S(he) lists a series of companies, primarily large bank holding companies (BHCs) and declares that their existence means: "So, pretty much all of the really big players don't fall under the PCA in the first place." Bank holding companies, of course, are called that because they own banks - and the U.S. banks they own are subject to PCA. The fact that a bank is owned by a holding company is irrelevant to the PCA's requirements; it provides no immunity from the PCA. BHCs are "really big players" because they own massive banks subject to the PCA. The banks are the "really big players" and they are subject to the PCA law. When we put insolvent banks into receivership their BHCs and affiliates lose all control of the bank. The FDIC has sole control of it.

This matters profoundly on two levels:  First, Black is establishing that the bottom line on this financial crisis and how to deal with it is not unknowable complexity, regarding which we must trust technocratic experts who helped bring us the crisis in the first place, nor are critical debates over the current technocratic approach dismissible as an "ideological dispute"  Rather, the issue here is a matter of law, and a rather recently created law (at least compared to the 1930s) that is fully responsive to the modern financial system.

Second, this dispute underscores the extreme danger of falling into the rightwing pattern of reflexive hero-defense, launching personal attacks on anyone who dares to criticize Obama or his administration.  It's extremely ironic that freeper-like attack on Black was titled "Please be smarter than the Freepers". The author of that attack ought to take their own title to heart.

I have been a fairly persistent critic of Obama since at least 2006, primarily because he seems to buy into the hegemonic ideological framework established by conservatives over the past 40 years, much in the manner of Clintonian triangulation and Tony Blair's "Third Way", rather than standing clearly outside that framework and attacking its very foundations.

While some may legitimately defend his position in doing this, I do not believe that anyone can legitimately defend him going so far in this direction that he turns his back on the rule of law.  Yet this is but one of several fronts on which it seems disturbingly clear that Obama is continuing the Bush tradition of picking and choosing which laws to follow, and which to ignore.

This is a very dangerous direction for Obama to be going in, particularly because he has shown such promise in renouncing much of the worst that the Bush regime stood for.  To criticize and oppose him when he instead continues Bush's worst practices in other ways is not to tear him down, but rather to do exactly what true patriots ought to do--to press their leaders to do the right thing, and vindicate the rights of all.

In that sense, the issues raised in this case directly parallel the increasingly troubling direction that Obama has taken in dealing with illegal wiretapping, and the misapplication of secrecy law, as discussed by Glenn Greenwald on Monday in "New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ":

When Congress immunized telecoms last August for their illegal participation in Bush's warrantless eavesdropping program, Senate Democratic apologists for telecom immunity repeatedly justified that action by pointing out that Bush officials who broke the law were not immunized -- only the telecoms....

Taking them at their word, EFF -- which was the lead counsel in the lawsuits against the telecoms -- thereafter filed suit, in October, 2008, against the Bush administration and various Bush officials for illegally spying on the communications of Americans.  They were seeking to make good on the promise made by Congressional Democrats:  namely, that even though lawsuits against telecoms for illegal spying will not be allowed any longer, government officials who broke the law can still be held accountable.

But late Friday afternoon, the Obama DOJ filed the government's first response to EFF's lawsuit (.pdf), the first of its kind to seek damages against government officials under FISA, the Wiretap Act and other statutes, arising out of Bush's NSA program.  But the Obama DOJ demanded dismissal of the entire lawsuit based on (1) its Bush-mimicking claim that the "state secrets" privilege bars any lawsuits against the Bush administration for illegal spying, and (2) a brand new "sovereign immunity" claim of breathtaking scope -- never before advanced even by the Bush administration -- that the Patriot Act bars any lawsuits of any kind for illegal government surveillance unless there is "willful disclosure" of the illegally intercepted communications.  

In other words, beyond even the outrageously broad "state secrets" privilege invented by the Bush administration and now embraced fully by the Obama administration, the Obama DOJ has now invented a brand new claim of government immunity, one which literally asserts that the U.S. Government is free to intercept all of your communications (calls, emails and the like) and -- even if what they're doing is blatantly illegal and they know it's illegal -- you are barred from suing them unless they "willfully disclose" to the public what they have learned.

This is not in any sense "change we can believe in," and those who supported Obama on that basis need to speak out loud and clear for these policies to be abandoned.  Instead, we see many attacking those who are pointing out the contradictions, just as Bush sycophants refused to consider criticisms of his policies, and thus helped to pave the way for his disastrous end, which has taken them down as well.  We must do everything in our power to avoid a similar end.


p.s.  The fact that TocqueDeville's diary also made the DKos rec list is a clear sign that those who regard DKos as a total waste of time are also mistaken, also reacting in a knee-jerk manner.  Depending on your priorities, it might not be a place you want to devote much time to, but it's still a repository of enormous value, for all the flaws that such a wide-open public forum is inevitably heir to.


Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Another excellent post with astute observations (4.00 / 3)
That's about all I'll add to that.

Z


And your "p.s." is dead-on as well. n/t (4.00 / 1)


Great post (4.00 / 6)
Remarkable the speed with which Obama has made major moral mistakes in three of the most important areas:

civil liberties--states secrets, FISA, Bagram (opposing habeas corpus for prisoners at Gitmo East), leaving the door open to interrogation techniques not in the AFM.

foreign policy--escalating the war in Afghanistan, making it quite possible, given the unraveling in Iraq, that Obama will have to be focused on two brutal wars this summer.

The Class War--Refusing to take on Wall Street

The hopes for Obama now reside almost solely with his health care and energy plans.



Oh, and as a non-active, formally very active (4.00 / 8)
Kossack, I want to address this:

The fact that TocqueDeville's diary also made the DKos rec list is a clear sign that those who regard DKos as a total waste of time are also mistaken, also reacting in a knee-jerk manner.  Depending on your priorities, it might not be a place you want to devote much time to, but it's still a repository of enormous value, for all the flaws that such a wide-open public forum is inevitably heir to.

I used to reassure myself that Daily Kos was a place of value because of the strong group of left progressives who post there (to which DeToqueville belongs) and because of the progressive posts that sometimes make the rec list. I was especially gratified during the Gaza War when several strong anti-war, anti-occupation diaries went to the top of the rec list.

But most good progressives pieces are lost beneath the prObama propaganda, especially progressive pieces that make the (tactical) mistake of criticizing Obama. I got tired of having to make the choice between writing a piece that had a chance of getting noticed and telling the truth about Obama.Bad for the soul. Maybe more to the point, by lending the place our talents and time, progressives are giving it credibility and propping it up, raising its stature, thereby allowing free-trading Markos to make money and go on Meet the Press, or the horrendous Dana Houle to go on CSPAN, representing Daily Kos, or in the mind of the populace, the netroots. I'd much prefer that progressives surrender it to participants of Obama's perpetual campaign, so that maybe one day Jane Hamsher or Digby or Greenwald--or, who knows, Paul Rosenberg--could go on Meet the Press and promote progressivism.

The other day I wondered aloud if it mattered that Daily Kos was bad. I think it does. I think we need a progressives from a progressive blog speaking for the netroots. I don't expect this to happen anytime soon, but it's weird that eight years in to this "movement," Daily Kos has no real competitors. I wish Meteor Blades would quit that place and start his own blog.



[ Parent ]
You're right, David. (4.00 / 5)
I still go back once in a while, but I know you're right on this:

Maybe more to the point, by lending the place our talents and time, progressives are giving it credibility and propping it up, raising its stature, thereby allowing free-trading Markos to make money and go on Meet the Press, or the horrendous Dana Houle to go on CSPAN, representing Daily Kos, or in the mind of the populace, the netroots

For too long we propped up an intellectually bankrupt system as the "loyal" Daily Kos opposition.  

We need to create many blogs with a progressive outlook.

There is so much quality around: firedoglake, docudharma, here, digby, and others.

Hell, take a look at HuffPo today:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Arianna Huffington
Posted April 6, 2009 | 10:10 PM (EST)

The Obama Economic Team's Flawed Cosmology: Still Believing the Universe Revolves Around the Banks

A series of recent meetings with members of Barack Obama's economic team (including running into Larry Summers on my way to an appointment in the West Wing, leading to a spirited back-and-forth that made me feel like I was back at Cambridge, debating the smartest kid in the class), left me with a pair of indelible impressions:

1) These are all good people, many of them brilliant, working incredibly hard with the best of intentions to solve the country's financial crisis.

2) They are operating on the basis of an outdated cosmology that places banks at the center of the economic universe.

Talking about our financial crisis with them is like beaming back to the 2nd century and discussing astronomy with Ptolemy. Just as Ptolemy was convinced we live in a geocentric universe -- and made the math work to "prove" his flawed theories -- Obama's senior economic team is convinced we live in a bank-centric universe, and keeps offering its versions of "epicycles" and "eccentric circles" to rationalize their approach to the bailout. And because, like Ptolemy, they are really smart, they are really good at rationalizing.

It's easy to get lost debating the complexity of each new iteration of each new bailout, but the devil here is not in the details -- but in the obsolete cosmology.

You don't read much of that on Daily Kos.

The problem is in the alliance with the centrists like kos, DH, or Adam B.  Progressives are just used as a base for their power and "influence."  

Better to build truly progressive blogs.  

And that does not even address the video game rage bs that underlies the Daily Kos experience.

I went by and recommented Toq's diary and even left a few comments there today in it and other diaries.  There are many who chafe at the rule of the Obama group.  But as we learned in 2007, the game is rigged there.

I'm glad I read your comment today.  It does matter and I agree that Dkos actually harms the real progressive movement.  



[ Parent ]
To be fair... (4.00 / 3)
It was rigged on other sites too... MyDD was just as bad as Kos, except it was Pro-Hillary.   Todd and Jonathan were good, Jerome was every bit as bad as Kos.   Both of them need a good kick in the ass.

[ Parent ]
True. And for the most part, (4.00 / 5)
while I am critical on some policy choices of President Obama, I have more of a problem with the group that brooks no criticism of Obama than with Obama himself.  

Mike Lux today desribed well an approach on the economic/banking issues that I geneerally agree with.  When/if this Summers/Geithner does not work, be there to support a new policy by Obama that will work.

I see Obama as a center-left President.  I will like some policies and support them fully and some I will oppose. And for other policies, I may wish he went further, but support with reservations.

For too many, it is just you're with him or against him.  That is a dead end.

 


[ Parent ]
"video game rage" (0.00 / 0)
And that does not even address the video game rage bs that underlies the Daily Kos experience.

I read Dailykos almost every day, and I have no idea what you mean by "video game rage bs that underlies the Daily Kos experience." Can you clue me in to what you're referring to?

miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
Heh. (0.00 / 0)
If I'm now a "centrist," then America has moved so far to the left that I wouldn't worry too much.  It's only within a narrow realm like this site's audience that I can plausibly be considered to the right of anyone, though I'm flattered that anyone would think I have any power or influence in the political realm.

[ Parent ]
Yes (4.00 / 5)
in the end what counts on a given blog is not whether a particular diary with something of value to say happens to break through to get some attention. It is the "center of gravity" of that blog. If it shifts too much to the mindlessly partisan, or mindlessly deferential, or mindlessly crackpot, then it is better that the blog be abandoned by those who represent reasonable voices, and left to the naked irrationality that dominates it. The forces of irrationality become, therefore, their own best testament to their lack of credibility and relevance.

The melancholy fact about the blogosphere is how pervasive these forces are. Sometimes they turn up in ways that embarrass even the front pagers -- such as the crackpot election conspiracy diaries. Sometimes the front pagers engage in them themselves -- such as Kos' attempt to "prove" during the primaries that a certain ad was deliberately darkening Obama's image. But the legions of commenters who would latch onto these crank notions, expand on them, and become consumed by them, can only be discouraging as to the potential effect of the blogosphere on our political discourse.

There seems to be little option under these circumstances than to find ways to cut off portions of the blogosphere that are inherently inclined towards irrationality. Certainly the best way to do this is to set up blogs with different priorities.

It is no longer surprising to me that DailyKos, which is still probably the most prominent of an organized supposedly progressive blog (Huffington Post is more just a mess of opinions without much of an organizing principle), should have devolved into the rank partisanship that now so obviously dominates it. Earlier, the tendencies along that direction were less pervasive -- though still quite apparent to those who really looked -- but the rise of Obama split the participants precisely along the seam between those who sought progressive policy, and those who simply wished, for emotional reasons best understood by themselves, to see their side and guy win. That's one Humpty Dumpty that won't be put back together again.  


[ Parent ]
Yes, and I don't think it should be (4.00 / 4)
put together again.  

Instead, real progressive blogs must develop.  Open Left is one.  There are others.

I may still post on Dkos occasionally, but I have little hope it can be saved.  It is what it is.

Those who want change beyoond team sports and polictally hackery must use the internet to empower.

I wrote today somewhere, maybe there, that they disempower by using the language of empowerment.  

That's David's point.  When we post a lot there, we legitimize their top/down world view.  Paul describes well with Obama the hegemonic world view he accepts and operates within.

Daily Kos is the same problem.

Paul is not around dkos as much as David and I were the last few years.  He's here and dabbles there.

It's okay to dabble there and I may even write a diary there again sometime.  But it's from an era that has passed, the anti-Bush era.

New problems call into existance new means to solve them, if we create themm.  The Kos project is over, because it was partisan at its core and only partisan.  It wil be there and create an income for Markos and help feed Democratic politicians, but in the current depression, new means of struggle are necessary.  

 


[ Parent ]
Huff Post really isn't much better (0.00 / 0)
Besides moving the celebrity news at the top of the front page as if it were more important than the news I also don't like their comment rules.

I have yet to have a comment approved and I followed all the guidelines. Seems a bit arbitrary.

Dkos front page has some value to it even if the rec list is trash just as Open Left Front page has some value to it for me.


[ Parent ]
I like Daily Kos. (4.00 / 2)
I like Open Left too. And I am definitely in the school of thought that believes we should push Obama from the left when he is wrong. I get frustrated with the "you're either with Obama or against Obama" attitude of many Kossacks. But please, let's keep things in perspective. There is some crap on there, but do you know how much really good content is posted there every day? More than I have time to read. And compared to the usual suspects supposedly representing "our side" - Harold Ford, Lanny Davis, Margret Carlson, etc. - are you really going to complain about Markos getting some TV time?

Daily Kos is huge and unruly, but it is for the most part:

pro universal healthcare
pro card check
pro environmental responsibility
anti-war
anti military industrial complex
anti Republican
anti right wing media
etc.

And I can go on there and criticize Obama from the left and get recommends and not get troll-rated. I think you guys are nuts and kind of narcissistic for wanting to minimize Daily Kos. It is huge and influential and significantly to the left of the corporate media. And you guys want them to shrivel up and die? I don't get it. Plus, they link to Digby and other great progressives all the time.

miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
I Agree It's Valuable (4.00 / 1)
I would generally agree with everything you say.  But I think Tom is also making a valid point.  We are in a new era, and DKos is somewhat lagging behind the emergence of new challenges.  But, as you point out, there's a solid core of positions that remain highly important and progressive.

Hence, my argument that what's needed is greater diversity and more integration with off-line organizing.  Mike's post about A New Way Forward speaks directly to both of these.  It would be great if Markos were writing a post like that, announcing he'd be speaking in San Francisco.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Dana Houle a.k.a. DHinMI (0.00 / 0)
In spite of my comment below defending Daily Kos in general, I agree that DHinMI is a pompous ass load. He is the biggest dick to grace the dkos front page since the psychotically assholish Armando.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
Agreed (0.00 / 0)
The speed at which I have soured on Obama is staggering. But not so staggering as the speed at which he has abandoned any serious pretense of change and reform when it comes to the Imperial Presidency.

His most recent actions - the attempts to squelch any and all lawsuits and investigations into Bush's illegal warrantless wiretapping (which I am shocked by the absence of discussion about on major websites) - let alone his clear agenda of excusing torture - is the last straw for me.

From this point on, I see him as nothing more than a Cheshire Cat President.


[ Parent ]
Professor Black still hasn't answered the question... (4.00 / 1)
...if the citibank portion of citigroup were put into "receivership" what happens to the rest of citigroup... the part that is actually insolvent (as opposed to the bank part, which is doing much better than the rest).  It does no good to take only citibank down... that's not the part of cityigroup that is causing problems... the entire thing must be taken over, and current legislation is insufficient.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


He does address it. (4.00 / 5)
Read through his full post to find this:
To sum up the first point: banks are the issue. U.S. banks have FDIC insurance and are subject to the PCA law, regardless of whether they are owned by a BHC. Deposit insurance covers only insured banks, not BHCs, so the FDIC, the Treasury and the taxpayers do not owe any obligation to pay their creditors. If the commentator is worried that BHCs will escape receivership, s(he) need not fear. BHCs and insurance companies such as AIG are subject to the bankruptcy laws, which can be used to block and even "claw back" excessive and fraudulent executive compensation. (Treasury is also requesting Congress to grant it authority to place BHCs and some insurers into receivership.)

One of the key insights I get from this is that, in Black's view, it is not necessary to view this as a toxic asset problem at all. View it as a banking problem, fix the banks, and get the banks healthy and lending again. The toxic assets are the bank holding company investors' problems. Placing the bank in receivership would trigger the bankruptcy of the holding company, but so what?

This is the more government strong-arm version of the idea that's been circulating of separating these big companies into "good" and "bad" companies, with the "bad" company holding equity in the "good" company: http://voxeu.org/index.php?q=n...


[ Parent ]
This Is My View, Too (0.00 / 0)
We need a sound banking system.  We don't need to worry about the rest, at least not in the present crisis environment.  The big boys should just have to fend for themselves.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
How about (4.00 / 3)
the simple answer that the rest of Citigroup could just be left to go bankrupt?

What the economy needs, to go forward, is a healthy set of banks, which can spur lending. They don't need the likes of that portion of Citigroup that destroyed the economy. Indeed, that portion of the finance industry would appear to be little more than a parasite on the economy, and a parasite that can only too easily kill the host.


[ Parent ]
I see (0.00 / 0)
Mad Scientist beat me to the punch.

[ Parent ]
Law and Bank Solvency (4.00 / 1)
Based on reading these posts, the law only kicks in if the banks are insolvent.  Normally that is obvious.  But when a bank is held by a larger company, it isn't obvious.

But they're allowing all the banks to report that they're not only solvent, but fully capitalized.

It's pretty obvious to me the banks are insolvent, but that isn't the same thing as proving it or knowing that in a legally binding way.

It also appears this law would require banks owned by holding companies to go through receivership, but not the holding companies themselves.  I'm not sure how that fits in to the big picture.  I'm really not sure how it fits in to all the credit default swap b.s. and all the ponzi schemes that amplified this problem.


Well... (4.00 / 2)
If they've taken government bailout money, and are unable to repay it....

The ONLY thing supporting Treasury's charade that these banks aren't insolvent - just illiquid - is the insistence that "legacy assets" are worth far more than what anybody is willing to pay. By that logic, GM should avoid bankruptcy by refusing to sell any cars and insisting that its current inventory is actually worth far more than anyone is willing to pay.


[ Parent ]
Should versus Legally Required (0.00 / 0)
I agree about what we should do.  I'm just questioning the statement that the law is being broken.  That seems more muddled and less obvious to me.

Even though I have believed for several months now that the banks are insolvent, I consider that to be an opinion, not a statement of fact.

In other words, Geithner could easily use this law to his advantage, if he chose, but I don't see it as forcing his hand.  It does seem that this law means additional congressional approval isn't necessarily required, though the actual funds probably would be.


[ Parent ]
Under what circumstances would the law force his hand? (0.00 / 0)
Presumably, the law doesn't provide for unlimited discretion. When Citibank comes to the Treasury and says "We need $35 billion by Monday to survive," and it's the third time Citibank has gotten big money from Treasury, is there any real way to argue that Citibank is insolvent but for the grace of Treasury?

So if Treasury is obligated by law to take over a bank that is unable to make good on its financial obligations, then it's alright instead for Treasury to hand out money to maintain Citibank's ability to make good on financial obligations?

I'm missing something here.


[ Parent ]
Strong case for a lawsuit? (0.00 / 0)
I like you comment below on letting the courts decide.  It seems like the correct course of action would be to start a lawsuit.  What entity is set up to do that?  This seems outside of the scope of the ACLU, the normal go-to group for liberal lawsuits.

[ Parent ]
Or Sgt. Schultz... (0.00 / 0)
Sounds like a job the Congress.

[ Parent ]
Can't really imagine anyone would want to take this on (0.00 / 0)
The administration has already laid out the reforms it wants, one of which is to have unambiguous authority to take over these large non banks. So long as that has a decent chance of passing, there really isn't any mileage in setting a precedent for older laws.

If anyone with the resources had an interest in trying to force Treasury to take these things over, I'd guess it would be AG Cuomo. The way Treasury has been dealing with these things seems to make his life harder, keeping track of whether any of the money ends up in straight up fraudulent schemes.


[ Parent ]
Do This Journal Entry (0.00 / 0)
... and Black's comment's (and the entire conversation) constitute an unauthorized practice of law?

No. (4.00 / 3)
The First Amendment protects this discussion.

[ Parent ]
Not Certain (0.00 / 0)
That is possible, but I don't know (one way or another) if it is right. This conversation, insofar as it is about the moral and ethical duties of the government, seems entirely protected. But I don't know what the limits are on non-lawyers making claims about what is or is not legal.

(I admit, I often wonder about this in other contexts too).

I mean that anyone can get into trouble for the unauthorized practice of law seems like it would imply that free speech is not absolute and, at some point, a non-lawyer who publically asserts a legal opinion crosses the line.

But I'm not a lawyer, so I can't claim to know.


[ Parent ]
This Is Just Absurd (4.00 / 2)
Unauthorized practice of law concerns giving specific legal advice to someone regarding a specific case.

If your concerns were valid, then Findlaw would be a criminal enterprise.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Well... (0.00 / 0)
What I've seen on findlaw is less in the way of opinion and more in the way of unfiltered caselaw/legislation. (It is also worth noting that a lot of the opinion content for findlaw, was provided by lawyers). Of course, some of the findlaw content is provided by a company called nolo.

Nolo is very similar to findlaw, only in book form (and with less unfiltered content).

So it's interesting that had the Texas legislature not intervened the Texas Supreme Court was going to hold hearings on whether Nolo was engaged in the unauthorized practice of law.

So the funny thing is, it wouldn't surprise me for a State Bar to accuse Findlaw of being a criminal enterprise - at least in this regard.


[ Parent ]
It is against the law to walk across the middle of the street (4.00 / 2)
It is called jaywalking.

Opps!  I just broke the law on illegal lawyering.  Dang, I just broke the law again!  S#!t, I did it again.  Frack...

WILL THE MADNESS NEVER CEASE???  


[ Parent ]
No! (0.00 / 0)
WILL THE MADNESS NEVER CEASE???  

At least not as long as I keep responding to alchemi.

As for your own problem, that's up to you...

Opps!  I just broke the law on illegal lawyering.  Dang, I just broke the law again!

Hey, wait, that's your inifinite regress, not mine.

Opps!  I just broke the law on illegal lawyering in the field of applied Dickian metaphysics. Dang, I just broke the law again!  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
What? (4.00 / 1)
Do you also think that when someone mentions that eating a certain kind of food, or increasing your exercise regimen is good for your health, that person is practicing medicine without a license?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Aside... (0.00 / 0)
I've actually wondered whether some law professors don't engage in the unauthorized practice of law (in that my understanding is that not all professors are members of the bar in the jurisdiction in which they teach).

I don't know that either. I just wonder.


[ Parent ]
No (4.00 / 1)
Because he is not holding himself out as a lawyer.

You can always offer an opinion on the reading of law.  You only get in trouble if you say you are a lawyer.  


[ Parent ]
Black is flat wrong (0.00 / 0)
about the law requiring Paulson to close these institutions in the manner he suggests.  He is suggesting that Treasury is willfully violating the law, and he is wrong.  

The legal scheme governing banks has always assumed administrative descretion in determining if a bank is insolvent.  That determination is left to the judgement of the Treasury.  If you look at the statute you will find no lengthy definition of "solvency" for a reason - it is designed to be left to the Treasury's descretion.

I advised S&L's during the late 80's and early 90's, none of which I am happy to say were taken over.  There are multiple differences between that crisis and this one.  I don't remember much debate over which institutions were insolvent in the late 80's, and S&L's were not individually nearly as central to the overall economy as are the money center banks are today.  Certainly there are lessons learned from that crisis that I would apply to this one, but the comparison that Black is making here is wrong.

There are many reasons to question the bailouts of the banks.  Suggesting that the law is being willfully ignored does not strike me in the top 10 questions I would raise.  

With respect to DKOS, some of the best substantive discussions on economics and energy I have found on the blogs happen there.  In general those discussions are at least as substantive as the ones that happen here.  


You are talking as though (4.00 / 3)
the very law that was passed as a result of the S&L fiasco, and was designed to force authorities into taking banks in receivership when they were bankrupt, simply does exist, or did not have that intent.

Certainly, there's some level of discretion involved. But the law, as Black indicates, goes into some details and schedule as to how one should determine whether a bank is adequately capitalized so as to avoid receivership.  


[ Parent ]
That would be for a judge to decide (4.00 / 3)
Maybe your opinion would hold in court, and maybe Black's would. Seem likely that the amount of discretion Treasury has is not a matter of settled judicial opinion. Obviously, Treasury can't have unlimited discretion to ignore the factual insolvency of any given bank.

The EPA is sued regularly in order to establish the limits of discretion in enforcing the law. Seems like Black's argument sets the stage for someone to sue Treasury over not taking over the banks. Then your difference of opinion with Black would be left for the Judiciary to decide.

Clearly, Black strongly thinks Treasury is violating the law. You and others think not. Anyone care to take a guess which way the Supreme Court would decide?


[ Parent ]
That's my take (0.00 / 0)
I saw Black's take as legit though perhaps flawed. In no way was it lie. But that's what happens to prominent critics of Obama: they get smeared.

There's not a single prominent critic of Obama who hasn't had his or her integrity and motives questioned. Maybe Elizabeth Warren can be the first.


[ Parent ]
I have posted Black a few times (0.00 / 0)
and let me make clear I think he is in some ways very wrong.

I don't think he is willfully lying.


[ Parent ]
The EPA comparison (0.00 / 0)
is a useful one. EPA regulations specify in some instances fines for toxic waste.  Usually the regs refer to so many parts per million: an objective scientific standard.

Here is a link to the Statute governing corrective action.  By reference it refers to risk capital.  The calculation of risk capital is based on accounting.  It is not nearly as an objective a standard, and is subject to legitimate and significant differing opinions.  Moreover, and I keep coming back to this point so maybe I should just STFU here, the calculation of the value CDO's - which are assets and are therefore considered when calculating risk capitcal - is  very hard and in some ways beyond double entry accounting.  Black says this isn't hard: and he is alone in this point.  

I am a pretty good lawyer, and as I read a law I had not read in a over a decade, I found other problems with his reading, but I am no longer anything close to an expert in this law.  

 


[ Parent ]
Black Is A Regulator (4.00 / 2)
And I take it that he reads the law through regulator's eyes.  I'm not a lawyer, but I am more familiar with environmental law, and I reasoning by analogy, I can well imagine a regulatory or advocacy group lawyer making an analogous claim, which I would find very compelling, despite the fact that many others might dispute it, and even, given the current dominance of conservative federal judges, if the regulatory/advocacy lawyers' views did not prevail in court.  (In fact, something analogous to this seems to be unfolding right now in a 9th Circuit case regarding the ports of LA and Long Beach's efforts to clean up truck pollution.)

So, bottom line, I would have no problem saying that Black is right, even if he might not prevail in court, were I to study the law in depth, with the aid of lawyers whose judgment I trusted.  I'm not in a position to do this just now, but I am in a position to say that it's not justified to reject him in a cursory manner.

Perhaps more importantly, however, there is both a moral and a policy argument that the law as Black interprets it makes very good sense, and even if he were mistaken about, there's a strong argument to be made that that's how it ought to read, and that's what the Obama Administration ought to strive for.

Finally, the CDO pricing issue is a bit of a red herring, so far as I'm concerned, if one tries to present it in isolation. The problem isn't pricing so much as (1) the uncertainty in the pricing, and (2) the concentration of ownership (3) in the hands of folks who are supposed to be holding sound, secure investments, rather than voodoo-like speculative instruments.

Black in effect is arguing that severe downside systemic speculative risk ought to trump all other concerns, and I've yet to hear a good counter to this argument.

Care to give me one?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I think Obama is asking for it (0.00 / 0)
there's a strong argument to be made that that's how it ought to read, and that's what the Obama Administration ought to strive for.

Isn't this basically the justification for Obama/Geithner requesting specific authority to take over large non-banks? That would remove any ambiguity about the appropriate action when Citibank calls asking for $35 billion: take them into receivership.


[ Parent ]
EPA regulations vs. congressional authority to regulate (0.00 / 0)
The regulations that EPA enforces are specific. The authority under which EPA sets those regulations are much less so. Getting the congressional authority to regulate translated into actual EPA regulations has often required lawsuits and a judicial decision.

As far as the value of CDO's, I can't accept the argument that "these things are too complicated to be valued". If that's the case, then they're too complicated to be marketed. When Citibank asks for emergency government funds, that tells me that the value of Citibank's assets is insufficient to maintain operation of the company. What's the difference between that and Citibank being insolvent?


[ Parent ]
That's Just The Problem (0.00 / 0)
As far as the value of CDO's, I can't accept the argument that "these things are too complicated to be valued". If that's the case, then they're too complicated to be marketed.

They we're too complicated to be marketed.  Hiding that fact was part of the fundamental systemic fraud involved.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
OK - read through the statute (0.00 / 0)
It seems this is the relevant section:
 (C) Appointment of receiver required if other action fails to
         restore capital
         (i) In general
           Notwithstanding subparagraphs (A) and (B), the appropriate
         Federal banking agency shall appoint a receiver for the
         insured depository institution if the institution is
         critically undercapitalized on average during the calendar
         quarter beginning 270 days after the date on which the
         institution became critically undercapitalized.
         (ii) Exception
           Notwithstanding clause (i), the appropriate Federal banking
         agency may continue to take such other action as the agency
         determines to be appropriate in lieu of such appointment if -
             (I) the agency determines, with the concurrence of the
           Corporation, that (aa) the insured depository institution
           has positive net worth, (bb) the insured depository
           institution has been in substantial compliance with an
           approved capital restoration plan which requires consistent
           improvement in the institution's capital since the date of
           the approval of the plan, (cc) the insured depository
           institution is profitable or has an upward trend in
           earnings the agency projects as sustainable, and (dd) the
           insured depository institution is reducing the ratio of
           nonperforming loans to total loans; and
             (II) the head of the appropriate Federal banking agency
           and the Chairperson of the Board of Directors both certify
           that the institution is viable and not expected to fail.

If I'm right that this is the relevant section, then the pertinent issue is not the definition of "insolvency" or "risk capital" or valuation of CDOs or anything else. It's the 270 day wait period. Treasury can do any damn thing it wants so long as FDIC goes along with it for a full year. And even then, if the government's "investment" counts toward net worth, and mark to market is not in effect, it seems likely they can cook the books to make it appear to have positive net worth  - all the other criteria can easily be cooked.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, I am very much not (4.00 / 1)
a lawyer, but I keep getting stuck on the various definitions (and the vagueness thereof) when I read this law, and wondering about sections that appear to my untrained eye to be pretty slippery. (Of course, even the simplest bit of timeline baffles me, to tell the truth.) I suspect that a little less certainty might behoove those arguing both sides of this, even after the 'experts' have spoken--unless they are experts themselves.

Hm. Maybe even if they are experts. I suspect this is largely a matter of 'tone', in some ways. Black suggests the Obama Administration isn't wrong, but is willfully criminal. A diary suggests that Black isn't wrong, but is willfully lying. A comment suggest that the diarist isn't merely wrong, but is worshipping Obama as a living god. Round and round we go.


[ Parent ]
Methinks Obama Worships Is Easier To Establish Than The Other Claims (0.00 / 0)
For one thing, you don't need to go to court to prove it.

</snark... no, wait, the snark never goes off...

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I'll grant you that! (4.00 / 1)
Obama worship = disagreeing with my criticism of Obama.
Obama bashing = disagreeing with my support of Obama.

It's enough to make one want to take the Beltway approach and try to split the imaginary difference every time. From now on I officially think that Black is definitely lying and the Obama administration is definitely breaking the law.


[ Parent ]
Internet attacks (4.00 / 1)
I always find it funny when anyone criticized one particular group for stepping out of the reasonable bounds of internet discussions.  Anyone who has ever had any discussions on the internet knows that someone within any group of opinion does this.  You could be arguing sports, politics, whatever, it doesn't matter.  No matter the opinion, someone will overly react supporting it and attacking those who disagree.

The next step, of course, is then to smear the entire group based on the overreaction of a handful of members.  That always happens as well.  (Who broke up the Lakers, Shaq or Kobe? GO!)

It is just a pattern we have to watch repeat itself all the time, over and over again.  Even my pointing the pattern out is set in stone.  It is all fate, nothing we can do about it.


[ Parent ]
Everyone Knows It Was Yoko! (0.00 / 0)
(Who broke up the Lakers, Shaq or Kobe? GO!)



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Too Facile (0.00 / 0)
When reasoned criticism of Obama is responded to with demonization, that's a good deal more than "disagreeing with my criticism of Obama".

And that very much seems to have been the case here.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Too facile, indeed. (0.00 / 0)
I shouldn't need to say this, but I've been heartily critical of Obama in the past--and yet Black's suggestion that the Obama administration is willfully breaking the law strikes me as precisely symmetrical with the diarist's suggestion that Black is lying. (Except Black has a bigger megaphone.)

I presume that in fact, neither of those things is true.  


[ Parent ]
Expanding On Frankly0's Response (4.00 / 2)
I think you and Black may be talking past one another.  Abuse of discretion was part of the problem as Black describes it, and PCAL was designed to remedy that fact. Of course all discretion could not be removed, nor should it.  But the bias was shifted to prevent close cases--where discretion is most warranted and needed--from spinning out of control into vastly expensive money pits.

And given the fact that your experience was with S&Ls that weren't the problematic ones, that counts as yet another sense in which you and Black seem to be talking at cross-purposes.

While Black still may be mistaken--I'm no expert in this area, by a long shot--if you read the entirety of his response, it will be obvious that what you've written here does not refute his case.  It may lay out the framework for an argument to refute him, but considerably more detail is needed for an actual refutation.

If we had a functioning Congress, there would be extensive hearings on all of this, and they would have started last September at the very latest.

p.s.  I agree with you re DKos.  However, the criticisms raised higher up in the comments have a different focus, employing a different evaluative standard, and their point is logically separable, as I see it.  What matters to me here is that we recognize these as distinctly different arguments/issues.  (I also think that things may change considerably at DKos over the next 2 years.  And, then again, they may not.  Predicting the past is always so much easier than predicting the future.)

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Good points about dkos and (0.00 / 0)
especially about predictions!  :-)

Just anted to tell you that I consistently enjoy your work.  You discussion of hegemony is dead on:

I have been a fairly persistent critic of Obama since at least 2006, primarily because he seems to buy into the hegemonic ideological framework established by conservatives over the past 40 years, much in the manner of Clintonian triangulation and Tony Blair's "Third Way", rather than standing clearly outside that framework and attacking its very foundations.

That is the entire problem and why we get Summers and Geithner instead of Stiglitz and Galbraith or Deam Baker.

That is also why we will be disappointed in the end, after 8 years of Obama.  A failure of imagination will keep him imprisoned in the what is, rather than trying to build what could be.


[ Parent ]
Obama's Limitations Are Clear (4.00 / 1)
But it's not fore-ordained that we will be stuck with them.  He's definitely more rigid than FDR was, but the mass movements now are also weaker than in FDRs day.  If those movements can amp up sufficiently, Obama may also become more flexible.

So, as always, we shall see.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
True. Nothing is fore-ordained. (0.00 / 0)
We need a Huey Long, a person from the left who is a political threat.  

If the movements amp up, that could do it.  

We will see.  Long term unemployment may radicalize many.    

On a side note, this is where David and I despair about dkos.  After trying for literally years there, it seems that the place impedes change.  We may be wrong.  Time will tell.

I see Toq's diary and have hope, but also see rec list diaries about Michelle Obama reminding me of People magazine.  David's point seems correct based on my experience.  We need to build a real progressive netroots.  Dkos seems to just channels folks anger about the system into the centrist game and Obama fascination.


[ Parent ]
Well, I Agree With That Criticism of DKos (4.00 / 3)
In fact, I've really not participated there that heavily since Kos came down hard against those questioning the Ohio results in 2004. But it's the nature of the blogosphere that everything seems to have multiple, frequently contradictory impacts, and those can certainly shift over time.

We certainly need greater diversity, as well as much more integration with various offline organizing efforts.  There's no shortage of work to be done.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
dKos impeding... ? (4.00 / 1)
Please check Wiring the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy by Matt Bai for the NYT Magazine. It is from July 2004, goes into detail on the influence of Andy Rappaport in building the Lefty blogosphere. Kos wrote about that piece on the same day it was published.

...It will take the hard work, guidance and money of Democrats schooled in the art of innovation to shake the party free from its moorings. Fact is, it's happening.

It's not just a bunch of bloggers screaming into the wind anymore. It's now famed Venture Capitalists and entrepreneurs like Andy Rappaport....

Of the 2004 election, Kos said

This election is the last gasp of the old establishment, not because we the bloggers declare it, but because the smart money has cast its lot outside the party hierarchy.

I don't think he's singing that tune so much anymore, hasn't for at least 3 years, and I'd bet money that the "smart money" of Andy Rappaport and his peers have influenced the views of the management of Daily Kos more than they'd care to admit.

Granted, I'm just thinking out loud here, and going on a gut feeling. I could easily be way off. But I think it's worth saying, and worth taking a long, hard look at.


[ Parent ]
one more point of order (4.00 / 1)
Does anyone know what became of the New Progressive Coalition's Political Mutual Funds? The website is still there; going back to look a little more.

[ Parent ]
notes for future reference (0.00 / 0)
Raising Tree Foundation listed as payment partner for NPC on the Political Mutual Funds site.

Donation processing fee split, ActBlue and Raising Tree.

Jonathan Zucker of ActBlue also Executive Director for Raising Tree. Santa Fe NM listed as contact address for Raising Tree, though not listed in NM corporations.

Raising Tree website now redirects to Democracy Engine, another payment processing operation.

Democracy Engine > Zucker.

Political Mutual Funds > donors give money > NPC decides which organizations get money? Even organization-specific donations can be redirected to other organizations for maximum political impact.

Second round of donations for political mutual funds in 2008, did it happen? Doubtful. PMF/NPC blog "77 Federal" ends 4/21/2008.

Who are the individuals in Rappaport's Band of Progressives, and to what extent have they influenced Democratic/Left/Liberal politics, including the development of the lefty blogosphere? Why isn't this information more readily available?


[ Parent ]
Black and I (4.00 / 1)
 are not talking past each other.  I am at least a decent attorney, and I think he is badly misreading the statute. More fundementally, the problem Giethner is dealing with is systemic risk to the economy, which was not really an issue with the S&L's. Black is ignoring this dimension of the problem.  

Re DKOS: if it did not exist it would have to be invented.  I think it is kind of struggling right now: but then I think ALL of the liberal blogsphere is struggling a bit.  


[ Parent ]
OK - so under what definition are all the banks solvent? (4.00 / 2)
When Citibank calls and says "We need $35 billion to maintain operations" how can that be understood in any other way than "We do not have sufficient assets to meet our financial obligations"? Without the $35 billion, what happens to Citibank? And if the answer is "poof, it disappears a la Lehman", then how can the request for $35 billion be interpreted in any other way than an admission of insolvency?

[ Parent ]
Donate to Open Left








Friends of the Earth thanks the OpenLeft community for the ideas you generate and your contributions to the progressive movement.

As an anti-spam measure, there is a 24-hour waiting period after registering before new users can comment.
blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search