Getting Older Doesn't Make You Less Black Or Less Gay

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Apr 10, 2009 at 17:28


After an election in which 66% of voters under 30 broke for President Obama, many Republicans might find comfort in the old adage about growing more conservative with age:

If you are young and conservative you have no heart, and if you are old and liberal you have no brain.

The saying is often attributed to Winston Churchill, which anyone familiar with his political career knows doesn't make much sense. This is because Churchill actually entered politics as a Conservative, switched to the Liberals when he was 29. He only rejoined the Conservatives at the age of 49, at a moment when electoral support for Liberals was being swallowed whole by Labour. As such, abandoning the Liberals had less to do with ideological drift than Chruchill's ongoing desire to become Prime Minister.

Anyway, no matter who actually coined the phrase (it might have been Shaw, according to one Open Left commenter), in an American context it highly exaggerates traditional youthful support for Democrats and liberals. The following chart graphs the performance of Democratic presidential nominees among voters under 30 from 1976-2008. It shows that the Democratic over-performance among young voters was much larger form 2004-2008 than it was from 1976-2000:

Democratic Performance Among Voters Under and Over 30, Since 1976
Year Dem % Voters Under 30 Dem % Voters Over 30 Margin
1976 54% 49% 5%
1980 44% 39% 5%
1984 41% 40% 1%
1988 47% 45% 2%
1992 44% 43% 1%
1996 54% 48% 6%
2000 48% 49% -1%
2004 53.5% 46.5% 7%
2006 60% 52% 8%
2008 66% 50% 16%

While President Obama over-performed among young voters noticeably more than any other Democratic presidential nominee or mid-term class, Democratic over-performance among young voters had already set records in both 2004 and 2006. Even if Obama had not become the Democratic nominee, it is likely that Democrats would have over-performed among young voters by 9-10%, given recent trends.

Young voters are not trending more Democratic because they are somehow becoming even younger. Instead, the continuing trend toward Democrats among young voters is because young voters are becoming less white, less Christian, and less closeted. All of these voting demographics favor Democrats by roughly 3-1 margins, and they are over-represented among young voters. In a great article over at Larry Sabato's place, Alan Abramowitz charts what this demographic breakdown means for the partisan electoral balance by age group:


Perhaps there once was a time when younger voters broke toward Democrats and liberals just because they were young, and then grew more conservative as they aged. However, now young voters are breaking toward Democrats at record levels not just because they are young, but because they are non-white, non-Christian, and out of the closet.

This is significant, because while you might trade in your heart for your head when you get older, you don't get more white, more Christian, or less gay with age. As such, Republicans are not going to start winning these voters over until they start performing better among non-Christians, non-whites, and the LGBT community. Given that all of those groups are trending in the opposite direction, it seems entirely possible that the old cycle of trading in hearts for heads will breakdown entirely.

Chris Bowers :: Getting Older Doesn't Make You Less Black Or Less Gay

Tags: , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
"More Christian" (4.00 / 1)
It's less about religious identification or denomination than about devotion and doctrine.  So actually, someone can in fact get "more Christian" as they get older.  Religiosity is not a matter variable; it's multi-input (denomination, devotion, doctrine).  

Just a methodological quibble with an argument I generally buy.  

What would be really interesting though to strengthen the argument is to look at age cohorts over time.  Does Democratic support erode?  Does liberal identification erode?  

What about panel data?  Mass versus individual?  

Sorry about the methods stuff (sort of); just came from a poli sci seminar.


Unquote (4.00 / 1)
Mark T. Shirey

A definitive answer arose in the wonderful book "Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False Phrases, Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations" by Ralph Keyes, 1992. He writes:

"An orphan quote [unattributed quote in search of a home]sometimes attributed to Georges Clemenceau is:

Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart.
Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no head.

The most likely reason is that Bennet Cerf once reported Clemenceau's response to a visitor's alarm about his son being a communist:

If he had not become a Communist at 22, I would have disowned him.
If he is still a Communist at 30, I will do it then.

George Seldes later quoted Lloyd George as having said:

A young man who isn't a socialist hasn't got a heart;
an old man who is a socialist hasn't got a head.

The earliest known version of this observation is attributed to mid-nineteenth century historian and statesman François Guizot:

Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart;
to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.

Variations on this theme were later attributed to Disraeli, Shaw, Churchill, and Bertrand Russell.  (I misquoted Churchill to this effect for years.)"



Bernie Sanders proves that wrong ... (4.00 / 1)
Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart.
Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no head.


[ Parent ]
Congress, conventions (4.00 / 1)
White males make up about 85% of House Republicans and that percentage is not shrinking.  Otoh, white males make up about 60% of House Democrats and that percentage is shrinking.  The physical makeup at the party conventions was even more starkly different.

It seems that Republicans in the House who make the TV are either southerners or have white hair (Pence, Jerry Lewis).

Subtract out the three Cubans in the House and it is even worse.  Joe Cao, you are their diversity.



The older I get, the more liberal I get (4.00 / 5)

 I'm in my mid-forties. If I'd been old enough to vote in 1980 I would have voted for Reagan. I was mired in Level-2 thinking at that time.

 I outgrew it. To this day I never fail to shake my head at how simplistic, how juvenile the right-wing mindset is. Everything's all about good guys vs. bad guys. And how sad that some people never get beyond that level of cognitive development.

 And having watched conservatism perform in all its horror over the last eight years, I don't see me ever going back to that mindset.

  I suspect the same is true for many young people who came of political age during the Bush years.

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


No Teabags For You, Eh? (4.00 / 3)
And having watched conservatism perform in all its horror over the last eight years, I don't see me ever going back to that mindset.

And if the last 8 years didn't do the trick, how about the last 8 weeks?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
8 weeks? 8 years? (0.00 / 0)
I think it's been the last 40 years, really.

[ Parent ]
A Couple Of Thoughts (4.00 / 3)
Neither of which I have very good data for, as it would seem necessary to test this cross-nationally:

(1) Robert Altemeyer correlates RWA with raising a family.  People become more fearful, more sensitive to threats, and also less social as they focus inward on their families.  It's not a huge effect, but it's a noticeable one.  However, his data for this comes overwhelming from Canada, and while it makes perfect sense, I don't believe it's been widely tested.  It does correspond with the fact that in America white married women are a lot more conservative than white single women, but I don't know how much has been done to tease out the question of cause and effect.  So overall, this is something that seems highly likely, but still in need of more data.

It also needs to be seen how it changes over time. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that parents are a lot more uptight and fearful with their first children, and grow more relaxed over time.  Does this have a political correlate?

(2) I know less about the state of evidence for this second one, but was certainly true in my family: the tendency to grow more conservative with age seems to have been derived from observing men, but the opposite may well be true of women.  (Who, of course, did not have much of a political voice until fairly recently, so who paid attention to them?  Shaw did, actually, come to think of it.  Oh well...)  My parents were both liberal Democrats in the 50s, supported Humphrey in 1960, thought JFK was too lightweight and too centrist. By 1968 they'd been divorced, and my mom voted Peace & Freedom while my dad voted for Nixon.  A bit extreme, but you get the point.

There are two lines of logic I'm aware of to support this.  First is that social dominance theory says older men are the top of the social dominance hierarchy, so becoming more conservative with age reflects their self-interest.  (Women are not.) This may not be so true in our youth-opriented consumer culture, but it has been true for all of our evolutionary history leading up to the least few decades, so it would still seem likely to have a built-in genetic foundation, probably at the level of temperamental bias.

The second line of logic is that once women's children are grown (or, probably more accurately, as women's children grow older) their attention naturally broadens--they are more concerned with the world their children will inherit.  This naturally tends to make them more liberal, more concerned with making the world more hospitable.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Times change (0.00 / 0)
There is also the point that you can get more conservative over time without ever changing your opinion.  For example, just because you fought hard for the rights of blacks and women doesn't mean you agree with gay marriage.  In that since, the younger should always be more liberal.

Hell, since at the deepest meaning, liberal means adapting to change and conservative means resisting change, one should always expect youth to be more liberal.  That may or may not be related to politics, though.  (Youth are also more pro-war, in general, and more optimistic about everything.  Even in Vietnam, youth were more optimistic about the war than older people, much to my surprise when I learned that.)


[ Parent ]
Yup, Things Is Complercated! (4.00 / 1)
Certain new things are naturally more accepted by youth, but it helps to have a positive reason for it.  White youths weren't more accepting of blacks in the late 1800s, for example.  The Northern Civil War generation was the most pro-black of any that would be seen for quite some time.

Likewise, there've been times when immigrants competed for jobs most intensely with younger/less skilled workers, when native youth were certainly more demonstative in their hostility (I'm thinking 1830s, 1870s, etc., when there wasn't a whole lot of Gallup polling going on.)

And, like I already said, there seems to be stronger reasons why men become more conservative with age, compared to women.  What seems "only natural" may well be only natural for men.  Women may be naturally more sophisticated.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
White (0.00 / 0)
Getting older can make you more white, though.  As Matt Yglesias pointed out just today:

Perhaps the best way to think about this is to recall that many currently "white" ethnic groups-Jews, Italians, Irish, etc.-weren't always understood as being white. And it seems quite plausible that more and more Asians and Hispanics will, over time, come to attain "white" status. In political terms, meanwhile, once upon a time white Catholics were a core Democratic Party constituency. But over time, things just changed and the GOP coalition expanded from a white Protestant one to a broader white Christian one.



Things Change More Ways Than One (0.00 / 0)
I sometimes say that I'm white, but my parents weren't. It was really more true of my grandparent's generation, but there were certainly places my parents weren't welcome when they were growing up.  Me, OTOH, I never experienced overt anti-Semitism to my face that I can recall. Anti-intellectualism was a whole different matter.  I faced it constantly.

And yet, Jews still vote like Puerto Ricans.

As for Asians and Hispanics, it seems like the GOP just got too conservative too fast to capture those two groups.  Prop 187 drove a lot of Hispanics away from the GOP here in California, and although they weren't directly targeted, it really did seem to chill Asians as well.  Rove, Bush and McCain were all aware of this dynamic on the national scale, and wanted to do something about it, but ultimately were powerless against it.

The GOP just loves hate a little bit too much for their own good.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yep (0.00 / 0)
But Republicans (or some conservative party) will come back to this.  Eventually they'll figure out where the proper 50%+1 line is.  More than anything, they need to accept Catholic Hispanics into their mix.  Bush and Rove understood this, but the base could not support it.

The question is how long it will take them.  Hopefully, we are talking a full generation.  (Well, hopefully this hate goes away, but politically it's useful.)


[ Parent ]
Catholics in Congress (0.00 / 0)
110 Democrats to 44 Republicans (House and Senate combined).  The names of the Republicans are hardly too ethnic.  A Manzullo here and there but back in the 60s and 70s the Republicans were more ethnic (Spiro Agnew and John Volpe were the hot shot candidates for Vice President in 1968.

Roll Call provides complete break downs by religion and party on its congress.org site.  Also blacks, hispanics and other breakdowns.


[ Parent ]
Churchill (0.00 / 0)
The saying is often attributed to Winston Churchill, which anyone familiar with his political career knows doesn't make much sense. This is because Churchill actually entered politics as a Conservative, switched to the Liberals when he was 29. He only rejoined the Conservatives at the age of 49, at a moment when electoral support for Liberals was being swallowed whole by Labour. As such, abandoning the Liberals had less to do with ideological drift than Chruchill's ongoing desire to become Prime Minister.

No, that's unfair. It was nothing so expedient.

It's true that Churchill only made the shift after the Liberal Party deteriorated as a major force. But he only jumped ship once the Liberal Party, in a balance of power position, threw its support behind the Labour Party, to whom Churchill was very much ideologically opposed.

And though Churchill always harboured the desire to become Prime Minister, he never put that desire ahead of principle. On the contrary, he became a pariah in the Conservative establishment with his opposition to Indian independence and, more famously, appeasement. He only became Prime Minister when there was no else left.


State by state (0.00 / 0)
Non-hispanic whites make up 24.5% of Hawaii's population but 95.4% of Vermont's population.  Each of the most extreme states is Democratic.

Four states plus DC have a majority of their population either non-white or white/hispanic (HI, DC, NM, CA, and TX).  HI, DC, and CA are pretty clearly Democratic, NM leans Democratic and TX is the most important Republican state in the country (48.3% non-hispanic white).

Four states have non-hispanic white population between 50% and 59.9%.  Obama took Maryland and Nevada; McCain took Arizona and Mississippi.

Obama took all five big states in the 60% to 69.9% range (NY,FL,IL, NJ, VA) but just one of 5 smaller states in the 60%-69.9% range (AL,AK,DE,LA,SC).

Obama took 6 of 9 states in the 70s; 6 of 13 states in the 80s including both big states; and 2 of 4 states in the 90% to 99.9% range.

That's not a real clear pattern although population does not match "voting population.


Could it be because Republicans are more ..... (0.00 / 0)
Instead, the continuing trend toward Democrats among young voters is because young voters are becoming less white, less Christian, and less closeted.

I remember a time when the Republican Party that wasn't nuts, and people really had a choice between two parties.   I am a liberal; and if I could find a Republican that wasn't nuts and wouldn't accommodate his nuts, I would vote for him/her over any of the Democrats currently serving MI, our Governor in particular.   Her time is up.  The only Democrat running is her Lt. Gov. Cherry, who is even less/worse/more of an unknown.  I am searching through the list of Republicans lining up hoping I can find one that is both competent and sane.  Chances are I'll have to pick between crazy and milquetoast when I vote - if I vote.  


Please explain. (0.00 / 0)
I would like to have a reasoned debate.  

I think I understand the modern "progressive" mindset.  It seems like the attack commercial Crocker Jarmin launched against Bill McCay in the movie "The Candidate" where a child stands on a soap box and tells how he is going to make this playground really great for all the kids.  Except the modern progressives are the little kid.

I'm serious.  What are you people talking about?  I'm a social libertarian.  If two people of the same gender want to get married, fine with me...I'll even vote for it.  The drug war has got to be the most irrational policy ever inacted.  How many innocents could get killed with straight, controlled legalization?  No where near as many killed in this so-called war.  And where human life begins is definitely over my pay grade.

My puzzlement comes with the modern progressive attitude towards economics.

They want "universal" healthcare.  I'm all for it; sounds good to me..  How does that work?  What does the term "universal" mean?  Andrew Jackson fought for "universal" suffrage.  Woman quickly pointed out they couldn't vote even they owned property.  The administration changed to goal to "universal manhood suffrage". Of course, Jackson owned slaves, and he hated the Native Americans.  He meant universal while male suffrage.  

So, since there are over two billion people on this planet (about one in three) who manage to survive on less than one US Dollar a day. Do they get covered as well?  They need food as well.  And education, and of course, a "livable wage". How do we do that?

Or does "universal" mean only those people who live here?  Or only those people who live here legally.  Is there any immigration policy with this "universal" concept.

Socialism (or "Progressivism" or whatever you want to call it) has been tried, one thousand and thirteen times.  It has failed one thousand and thirteen times. (If you don't understand the concept of hyperbole, please don't respond).

I am quite serious. I really want to know.

Oh, and please patronize the sponsors who bring this site to you: Verizon, CreditReport.com, Bidz.com, Sport Court, and TBD.


so to sum up (0.00 / 0)
Because universal health care for the entire planet would be economically unfeasible, the United States should not implement this policy for its own citizens despite the evident success of domestically popular UHC programs in Canada, Japan, the UK, France, Switzerland, Denmark, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and Taiwan, just to name a few.  

Is that your argument?  Socialism doesn't work, except for all those places where it has worked?


[ Parent ]
USER MENU

Open Left Campaigns

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

QUICK HITS
STATE BLOGS
Powered by: SoapBlox