De-Nazify America--Part 1: The Post-WWII Model

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Apr 19, 2009 at 09:00


America is not Nazi Germany.  But over the last 7+ years America came much closer to looking and feeling like Nazi Germany than almost anyone would have imagined beforehand. Torture became officially--if secretly and surreptiously--part of the law of the land.  Not only were war crimes authorized and committed from the highest offices in the land, and violations of constitutional rights made routine, but those who dared stand up against this darkness were vilified, persecuted, and made to suffer for doing what was right.

We have pulled ourselves back from the abyss--but only just barely and tentatively, with no assurances of what the morrow may bring, especially if economic recession should deepen and prolong over a period of several years.  That is why President Obama's pledge not to prosecute CIA agents who committed war crimes is so deeply troubling.  It's not just a matter of letting hundreds, perhaps thousands of "low-level" criminals go free--as if that weren't bad enough by itself.  It's a matter of setting a dark and unholy precedent, whose bitter fruit we may find ourselves tasting far sooner than we could possibly imagine.  This cannot be.  This is why I am writing this brief diary series--to widen the scope of our thinking from the so-far limited scope of the CIA officers who have been the focus of attention up till now.

I begin by citing and quoting from an excellent diary by Valtin at Invictus, More than Nuremberg: Thousands Prosecuted for War Crimes After World War II:

While the example of the Nuremberg Trials is used often these days to describe what prosecutions might look like, few seem to remember that the prosecution of war criminals after World War II was much larger and took place over a longer period of time than most people realize. This is important when one considers the context of President Obama's granting of immunity to lower-level CIA interrogators (if they acted in "good faith" upon "authoritative" legal advice).

What even a cursory examination of historical precedent demonstrates is that after World War II prosecution of war criminals and accessories to war crimes were not limited to the famous Nuremberg 22 high-level Nazis, nor the few hundred or so prosecuted through the Nuremberg tribunals, but thousands of accused throughout Europe.

Paul Rosenberg :: De-Nazify America--Part 1: The Post-WWII Model
Among other things, Valtin takes note of America's record:

It may surprise you that the United States, for instance, has an Office of Special Investigations (OSI) at the US Department of Justice. Its mission was to hunt down war criminals and bring them to justice. Established only in 1979, the OSI has a sterling record:
    As of 2008, OSI has successfully prosecuted 107 Nazi persecutors. OSI has also worked closely with the Department of Homeland Security to stop more than 180 former European and Japanese Axis perpetrators and suspected perpetrators of acts of persecution at U.S. ports of entry and bar them from entering the United States

(1979 represents a very late start, to be sure.  Still, better late than never.)

Quotes from the "Teachers Guide to the Holocaust":  

In addition to the well-known Nuremberg Trials of 1945-46 [of 22 defendents], there were Subsequent Nuremberg Proceedings held between December 1946, and April 1949, which tried 177 persons. Individual countries also prosecuted war criminals in national courts of law. The British held trials of the commandant and staff of the Bergen-Belsen camp, those responsible for forced labor, and the owners and executives of the manufacturer of Zyklon B, among others. The Netherlands, Hungary, Norway, Poland, West Germany, and Romania were some of the other countries that brought war criminals to trial.

And the Danish Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies:

Poland was relatively quick to convict the camp personnel from Auschwitz - at least those that could be found. Trials were initiated against at least 600 members of the Auschwitz camp personnel. Among these were the two camp commandants, Rudolf Höss and Arthur Liebehenschel, who were sentenced to death in 1947. Rudolf Höss was hanged in Auschwitz in 1941. A total of 21 were executed....

In West Germany the so-called Auschwitz Trials were conducted against the camp guards from the concentration and extermination camp at Auschwitz. The largest of these trials took place in Frankfurt am Main between 1963 and 1965, where 20 were accused. 17 were given jail sentences....

On 3 July 1964 twelve of the personnel in the extermination camp Sobibor stood accused of participating in the murder of Jews in the camp. All twelve were accused of assisting in the killings. The trial itself began in Hagen on 6 September 1965 and ended on 20 December 1966. More than 100 witnesses were called.

This is just a sampling of the post Valtin has put together.  I highly recommend reading the entire post for yourself.  As Valtin says, toward the end:

As we can see, the amount of people prosecuted for war crimes is much more than most people (even myself, prior to doing this research) imagined!

As the protest over the immunity granted by Obama to CIA torturers continues -- as to how much immunity it really grants, whether it was smart, whether it was a capitulation to blackmail, or a wily maneuver to get the top leadership of the Bush years -- we should all consider the lessons of history as regards prosecutions for war crimes. This history, so recent it seems, is already largely forgotten or misunderstood as pertains to the prosecutions argument.

The prosecutions for Nazi war crimes have lasted for decades, and still continue.  We should not have the same fate befall us.  We should have a much swifter reckoning, one that we can actually accept as fair and just--not one forced on us from above by a morally, legally and politically unaccountable elite.  We should recognize right off that we don't even know how many people were involved in doing what, and that without such basic knowledge, nothing remotely approaching closure, justice or reconciliation can be possible.

We are--whether we admit it or not--much more deeply wounded as a nation than any of our political elites are willing to admit.  They will not face up to what has been done in our names.  We must force them to do so.


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I will not add anything else except to say (4.00 / 6)
I am in complete agreement.

Given our position of power in the world, we came closer than almost anyone could have imagined to plunging the entire civilized world headlong into a great dark age. The fact that it might have worn a smiley face only makes things worse.

Oh, and one more thing. God bless the French.


Nazis were prosecuted almost exclusively for murder. (4.00 / 1)
For some strange reason, all this facile parallelism between Auschwitz and Guantanamo leaves out the inconvenient fact that Nazis were prosecuted almost exclusively for murder, and many of their victims were tortured to death.

Dr. Herta Oberheuser killed children with oil and evipan injections, then removed their limbs and vital organs. The time from the injection to death was between three and five minutes, with the person being fully conscious until the last moment.

Wounds deliberately inflicted on the victims were infected with bacteria such as streptococcus, gas gangrene, and tetanus. Circulation of blood was interrupted by tying off blood vessels at both ends of the wound to create a condition similar to that of a battlefield wound. Infection was aggravated by forcing wood shavings and ground glass into the wounds.

And now, for some strange reason, some people refuse to take Guantanamo Bay as seriously as Auschwitz!

I have criticized Barack Obama as much as anyone in the political blogosphere, and criticized him at a time when most of his current critics were cheering like idiots, but in this instance his decision not to prosecute CIA officers is more reasonable than most of the silly arguments against it, and comparisons between Guantanamo and Auschwitz are insulting to the memory of millions of Jews, gypsies, political prisoners, Poles, Russians, and many others who died in Auschwitz after unimaginable torments.  


[ Parent ]
A hierarchy of holocausts? (4.00 / 9)
Insulting to the memory of.... That's an interesting formulation, which as far as I can tell is entirely specious. If the Holocaust loses its mythical status as a unique event in human history, it will lose its value as a political tool is the way it's usually presented.

In my view, doing the best one can to interrupt a conventional wisdom which ratifies such things as the torture of helpless prisoners, the remote control aerial bombing of civilians, which considers the deaths of Americans a greater tragedy than the deaths of lesser peoples, and asserts America's right to make war on those who inconvenience us would be absolutely necessary whether Yad Vashem existed or not.

In any event it insults no one's memory to say that the conventional wisdom fostered in the United States today resembles that of the Nazis in several important respects, and could in certain circumstances result in horrors very similar to those which occurred in places like Auschwitz. On the contrary, it's an attempt, through a vigilance informed by history, to counter the mindset which has lead in the past to to many holocausts, including the European one of 1936-1945. Looked at in that light, I'd say that it honors the memory of those memorialized at Yad Vashem, moreso perhaps than any false piety everbcould.


[ Parent ]
Yes (4.00 / 1)
Makes sense to me William.  

[ Parent ]
CRIMINALITY, Not Murder, Is The Issue (4.00 / 5)
Every act of cruelty prevented, every act of blind obedience punished, every moment of human happiness enabled and protected honors and gives added meaning to the memory of millions of Jews, gypsies, political prisoners, Poles, Russians, and many others who died in Auschwitz after unimaginable torments.

It's truly tragic that you can't see that.

However smart, you are a sad and twisted man.  I hope someday you find healing.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
also, you never equated Guántanamo and Auschwitz (4.00 / 3)
you drew a parallel.  The two are very, very different things.

[ Parent ]
Amnesty (0.00 / 0)
But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!

They are people of bad race and lineage; out of their countenances peer the hangman and the sleuth-hound.

Distrust all those who talk much of their justice! Verily, in their souls not only honey is lacking.

And when they call themselves "the good and just," forget not, that for them to be Pharisees, nothing is lacking but --power!

                   Thus Spake Zarathustra, The Tarantulas


The real argument for amnesty is always that fighting out the previous war to the bitter end may re-create or exacerbate the same situation that produced exactly the crimes for which so many vengeful little tarantulas are eager to exact vengeance...

... and considering that prominent Republicans are already arguing for secession and armed resistance to the federal government, there's an excellent chance that Mr. Obama's projected amnesty may forestall a whole spectrum of catastrophic possibilities which his shallowest critics haven't taken the trouble to consider.

"Let it be very justice for the world to become full of the storms of our vengeance"--thus do they talk to one another.  

But the tempest that all these teapot-policemen stir up could sweep us all away with it, and produce a reaction where Auschwitz was replicated en chair et en os, rather than the pale reflections which we saw at Guantanamo Bay.


[ Parent ]
I cannot even begin to respond to this (4.00 / 4)
... and considering that prominent Republicans are already arguing for secession and armed resistance to the federal government, there's an excellent chance that Mr. Obama's projected amnesty may forestall a whole spectrum of catastrophic possibilities which his shallowest critics haven't taken the trouble to consider.

This has got to be one of the biggest, all-time loads of crap I have ever read. I have neither the will nor the energy to write the monograph necessary to refute your argument. I reject it on its surface.


[ Parent ]
Meet Jacob Freeze. (4.00 / 4)
This is normal for him.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
First Law of Holes, Dude! (4.00 / 4)
Stop digging.

I never said anything about punishment.  That's all on you.

This is all about holding people legally and morally accountable for their deeds.  The question of punishment is up to the juries, and I've already explicitly pointed out that "only following orders" can be argued in the punishment phase of trials.

Furthermore, as a matter of personal preference and belief, I am strongly in favor of restitution, rather than imprisonment.

But none of that interests you, because you are a sad and twisted man, much more interested in lashing out at those who might have the most in common with you, rather than working productively with them.

Again, I hope someday you find healing.  But I am not here to be your therapeutic punching bag.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Punching bag? (2.00 / 2)
Listen to yourself, Paul! You aren't exactly emitting a dull thud!

You're screaming like a drunk southern widow (Thanks, Hyde!)...

or squealing like the family pig (Thanks, Fez!)...

...as the boys used to say on the Seventies Show, where nobody was so uncool that he or she responded to a good burn with whining and creepily insincere sympathy ("I hope someday you find healing.").



[ Parent ]
I know, (4.00 / 2)
I always thought "never again" meant never again for ANYBODY.  

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Flip this on its head (4.00 / 5)
I would suggest that its vastly more insulting to those who have suffered so greatly in the past to allow the present regime to continue, as it merely serves to revive that kind of suffering and death in the future.

The holocaust, Cambodia's killing fields, Stalin's great terror. It seems to me if we wish to honor the victims, the best way to do that is to prevent such things from happening in the future, if it's possible. Denying parallels where they exist only muddies the waters.

Personally, I think the best comparison to Gitmo is Pinochet's system of torture centers, especially since the US was intimately involved with their creation and management for a time. But that's just me. If we wish to be complete about this, we can add in our support for Argentina's Dirty War, Mexico's Dirty War (which we were also involved directly in), El Salvador's torture state, Columbia, Honduras and Guatemala as well.

And those were all our client states. I'm leaving out Africa for the sake of brevity.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Well there we go -- (4.00 / 1)
Jacob Freeze declares it is "reasonable" to protect war criminals from standing trial because, well, Nazis!

Excuse me while I puke.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Marginally OT, but it's quite discouraging that the (4.00 / 3)
special rapporteur for the UN Human Right's Council would give an interview condemning Obama's torture decision as illegal on a freaking Saturday, when the rest of the world does its news dumps:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...

There's a depressing lack of media savvy on display, when, as he says,"naming and shaming" is the UN's big card here. Fu**ing play your hand with some small fraction of salesmanship, please.


Untermentschen (4.00 / 3)
On the comments section of some blog-I can't remember which-someone brought up what I thought was an important point which is that CIA is a civilian not a military agency.  Its employees cannot be prosecuted for failing to follow orders and, therefore, have the option of simply refusing to obey them, or quit if they find their working conditions to be unacceptable.

Nazi soldiers, in contrast, faced prosecution and possibly worse for failing to obey orders.

It follows that CIA employees who operated at Bagram or Gitmo (including medical and psychological personnel) inhabit a lower moral level than Nazis-something that I, a child of holocaust survivors never thought could be achieved.



Oops (0.00 / 0)
Just noticed the comment in question was the front page posting by Daniel de Groot below.

It will be interesting to see if this idea gets traction outside of OL.



[ Parent ]
True (4.00 / 4)
At the same time, we have to acknowledge that we were nowhere near what Nazi Germany became.  The problem was, we were like what it was in the early stages.  And the CIA agents in question were very much like SS troops in the early 30s, who weren't at all unwilling or indifferent draftees.

And the psychologists who assisted the torture process?

Nazi doctors, anyone?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Paul (4.00 / 4)
Your posts on this topic have been insanely powerful and spot-on bullseyes. Keep up the excellent work.

I cannot agree more with your last sentence. If Obama insists on dragging his feet and excusing these crimes out of political expediency, cowardice, delusion, his own inner corruption, or whatever his ultimate rationale, steps must be taken to expose the truth to such a degree that he is left with no choice but to allow prosecutions.


You can help (4.00 / 4)
by joining the effort to impeach torture enabler Jay Bybee:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com...

The way I see it, anything we can do to keep them from sweeping torture under the rug and pretending it didn't happen is a step in the right direction.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Part 3--Or 4 (4.00 / 4)
I have a mini-series mapped out here, but Part 2 just got away from me a bit.  Part 3 was going to be about impeaching Bybee.  Maybe now Part 4. So there will be more to say about this to further motivate folks.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
My Lai (4.00 / 4)
The US prosecuted post-WW II atrocities against its own soldiers in the middle of a war.  And convicted them.  We were actually proud that unlike the Vietnamese we would not tolerate such behavior (or at least woulkd prosecute some of it).

Prosecuting Lt. Calley or the enlisted personnel at Abu Gharab and leaving others unprosecuted his bad policy.  Leona Helmsley said only the little people pay taxes.  The message we are leaving is that only the very little people are prosecuted for torture.

The beheading of Blackwater employees by Iraqis actually bears a whiff of rationality.  It was Blackwater, after all, that helped institute and carry out a policy of torture leaving the everyday efforts to the prosecuteable poorly paid grunts.


Another.. (0.00 / 0)
There you go again, Paul! Another GREAT article!

Why Obama would NOT want to prosecute all these f**king scumbags is beyond me...Well, let me rephrase that..Why Obama would not want to comply with the oath he took in January to defend the Constitution and uphold the rule of law is beyond me.  And then I wonder...why does he think he even has the authority as President to 1. Obstruct Justice...and 2. Aid and Abet these motherf**kers!

Oh, wait a second...I have the answers to these questions.. sad as it is!  He really does want to be "King"...  


[ Parent ]
From Jonathen Turley's site: (4.00 / 5)

United Nations Official Strongly Suggests That Obama Is In Violation International Law in Refusing to Investigate War Crimes
Published 1, April 19, 2009 Constitutional Law , International , Justice , Lawyering , Politics

U.N. special rapporteur Manfred Nowak has gone public with a stinging indictment of President Barack Obama's failure to investigate and prosecute officials for the American torture program, a clear war crime under existing treaties. Obama is in open violation of international law due to his failure to uphold the clear legal and moral obligations of this country.

For many months, I have been received a great deal of flak over this very same point (here and here: that Obama is in clear violation of international law. Nowak has now added a much more significant voice to the call for investigation and prosecution: "The United States, like all other states that are part of the U.N. convention against torture, is committed to conducting criminal investigations of torture and to bringing all persons against whom there is sound evidence to court."

Former Bush officials, the Red Cross, the vast majority of legal experts, and numerous NGOs have confirmed these interrogations as premeditated torture. Obama and Holder have both declared waterboarding to be torture. The failure to simply appoint an independent investigator and allow the law to be enforced without concern for politics or passions. It is obvious that Obama does not want to allow an investigation that would likely lead to an indictment of Bush officials and probably Bush himself. If Obama wants to excuse war crimes, he can take the personal responsibility and pardon Bush and these officials - tying his own legacy to the commission of torture. However, his blocking of an investigation is an international outrage and puts us into the same category as countries like Serbia. Obama has the authority to pardon crimes, not obstruct efforts to investigate crimes for political purposes. This may not be politically advantageous for Obama, but these treaties do not exist for his comfort or advantage. We made a pledge to the world that we would aggressively pursue any war criminals - even if they happened to be made in the America.


Indeed. If Obama wants to be "legal"... (0.00 / 0)
... we have to withdraw from all three Geneva Conventions (that we've ratified, we didn't ratify the fourth), the Intl Red Cross and the Convention on Torture.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates

[ Parent ]
Obama is simply a War Criminal himself. There will be no trials. (4.00 / 2)
The Nuremberg trials took place because Russia defeated the Germans. (Wer'e supposed to think it was America)

So....in any case....you only have trials when one party defeats another party.

I don't think "we" have pulled back from the abyss.

Obama is still authorizing the kidnapping innocent people...and that's torture...and then what do you do with kidnapped people....you immobilize them...that's torture.

Then we have reports from Guantanamo that the prisoners are continuing to be tortured.

You see Obama isn't bringing ANYBODY TO TRIAL...NOT BANKSTERS, NOT TORTURERS.....no one.

In fact he's finding ways to let Ted Stevens get out of jail, and keeping Siegelman in limbo.

What you have here is a person who is not moral as your president.

You have a "pragmatist"....and that's someone who takes bribes ( and Obama took a bribe if not bribes from Rezko...that's so OBVIOUS...everybody in politics does this) authorizes the murder of villagers by drone, voted to fund all these wars almost consistently, supports wall street over main street.

He's expanding the war to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Eritrea, Somalia all the while claiming to remove the U.S. troops from Iraq BUUUUUUT....Pertraeus says we may have to ignore the deadline of moving troops out of the cities...

BECAUSE

Iraq is a PONZI SCHEME....it's an artificial peace....it's dependent on bribing people...(Sunnis)....the AMERicans are protecting the Sunni's...in the cities...when they leave the cities, the Shiites attack the Sunnis and war begins with greater force and eventually of course, Sunnis funded armies stage a guerilla war against the Shiites....

C'mon...

You have ANOTHER WAR CRIMINAL as President.


ANOTHER WAR CRIMINAL AS PRESIDENT!? (0.00 / 0)
     A bumper sticker like that will aid the progressive movement.

[ Parent ]
Obama Refuses to Punish People who torture Children....like ...so....? (0.00 / 0)
I think the "progressive movement" is an illusion...it's people who endorse the policies of Ronald Reagen and have NO PERSPECTIVE.

The progressive movement is the REGRESSIVE movement, unawares.

I think it's that simple.

I mean Obama has authorized the kidnapping, "when necessary" of people "suspected" by "intelligence" experts of being sorta, kinda, maybe, ya know...like um....terrorists....ya know....like... Ok?

What do you do with a kidnapped...I mean.... extraordinarily rendered person.

Well, if they are under 10 years of age, maybe you put them in a box with insects because um....like...ya know ....like there father? ......maybe like...um ...he's like...um a tear rist....um....

http://www.afterdowningstreet....

Stupid.



[ Parent ]
One rhetorical piece of advice (4.00 / 2)
I agree with almost everything you say, but I would suggest that de-fascificiation would be a better word than 'de-Nazification.'  

What you are criticizing is a movement centered aroudn the expansion of government authority and scope, and the devolution of governmental economic functions to corporate entities.  This is representative of a larger group of governments and events than merely Nazi Germany, which is only one example of the fascist mindset, especially since most Americans still mostly associate Nazi Germany with the war and the Holocaust, which are not really the main things being talked about here.  


I Appreciate Your Argument, But (4.00 / 3)
"De-Nazification" is already a word, referring to a specific historical process that we can take as our moral, ethical and practical model.

"de-fascificiation"--an ugly, invented word--would be a politically expedient alternative, to be sure.  But political expediency is that last thing we need right now.  We need to radically change what others will take to be politically expedient.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
why isn't Soviet/Stalin/USSR etc used more? It's more apt, i think -- (0.00 / 0)
and far more of the country has had decades of official indoctrination on what that means -- and that it was always the absolutely evil opposite of US (or supposed to be, anyway)

i think de-Nazification (which actually didn't really happen in Germany after they committed all that--they didn't prosecute their own citizen soldiers and doctors or party members, etc, for instance, or even forbid them from having power -- others (non-Germans) did) -- and for decades they did what Obama is doing -- not dealing with the past, and brushing it under the rug, etc.

Germany only very recently started (and again -- only because of outside pressure) doing things like making amends -- for property seized and stuff like that. For decades, they ran away from dealing with all of it.


[ Parent ]
Really, I think Franco and Mussolini are the best comparison (4.00 / 1)
At least in type, though certainly not in scope (yet).  There is no effort to nationalize the economy at all, as you did in the USSR, nor is there the well defined ideology along the lines of Marxism.

Instead, you have a general ideology of struggle, and you have corporate patronage with a general restriction of civil liberties.  Of course, everything comes back different, and you hae none of the push toward autarky.  But it's a worhtwhile comparison.


[ Parent ]
probably -- i'm thinking more about resonance, and (0.00 / 0)
the problems so many have w/Nazi-related tags -- because the whole country sees Nazis and the Holocaust as exceptional, and very specifically limited to one place and time period, and not really institutional or common in humanity's history, etc, that it tends to raise objections and diversions and distractions -- instead of immediately signaling to the public about the abuses, secrecy, evils, policies, etc, that we have and that we need to stop -

and because all people know the camps/murdering part of Nazis, but really don't know all the 1930's stuff that prededed it that it's not as resonant too.

we don't know Franco's or Mussolini's either --- but everyone over 40 immediately knows that what we have now is very like all the (evil, abusive, corrupt, Orwellian, spying, no rights, no freedoms, etc) stuff hammered into us for decades about the USSR -- t think, at least.

it's kinda like all those statues of Saddam -- i and millions of others immediately thought of the Lenin ones, which was an automatic, immediate, and very clearly meaningful analogy -- regardless of the types of societies, etc.

(and we about Nixon spying on us and lying about it and "if the president does it, it's not illegal", etc, in the same immediate, resonant, and classifying way -- but that's not used to describe this stuff either -- it's weird.)


[ Parent ]
What's really being left out is US policy for the last 50+ years (4.00 / 4)
The US has been involved with torture states for a long time. Indeed, the timeline of US atrocities abroad goes way back.

We can start with the Philippine War 1870-1890-ish. We committed genocide there, killing at least 500,000. This timeline continues through most of the Third World, but especially latin america and africa.

Put together, our freedom loving policies have ended up torturing serious six figures and killing a lot more, into the low millions, depending on how we do the math. A quarter million dead in El Salvador alone, which is the size of Massachusetts. And how about Uganda?

Pinochet's Chile, D'Aubisson's El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala and so on, right through to our support for a criminally fascist regime in Columbia today. I realize the word fascism is almost useless now because of the way it's been misused in the past, but there's really no better word available.

The US has been in the business of exporting fascism and torture regimes for a long time. I wrote a paper on this almost 25 years ago and got howls when I presented paper, asking the question of when we would see such policies at home.

We're nearly there now, aren't we?

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Plus There Was That Whole Slavery Thing (4.00 / 4)
Slavery without torture?

I don't think so.

Not even on Dollhouse.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
That was a huge omission on my part (4.00 / 1)


"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates

[ Parent ]
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