Hundred Days: Four Major Political Themes

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 16:30


Being a weekend guy, I can either be early, late or altogether absent.  So I'm going with early. As the 100-day mark approaches, I see four major political themes.  These are:
    (1) Obama's sustained popularity, despite GOP  polarization.

    (2) The GOP's collapse into political incoherence.

    (3) The Democrats' inability--even unwillingness--to capitalize on the GOP's collapse into political incoherence.

    (4) The gathering of storm-clouds beyond the immediate reality of (1)-(3) that could spell big trouble for the Democrats, and actually allow the GOP to get back in the game as early as 2010 or 2012, but definitely by 2016. OTOH, if the Democrats did pay attention to these gathering clouds and do something about them, then another 30-40 years of electoral dominance could easily become possible.

Items (1)-(3) are fairly obvious and straightforward, and have taken most of folks attention over the past few months, so I'll deal primarily with (4) on the flip.  But I invite folks to discuss them all in the comments.

Paul Rosenberg :: Hundred Days: Four Major Political Themes
Here's a quick rundown of the first three points, before turning attention to the main focus.

(1) Obama's popularity.  The big news here is not so much Obama's own personal popularity, but the fact that the "right track" numbers
have returned to a positive plurality for the first time since 2004.  That is nothing short of amazing, and if it were the only thing on our plate, I'd be as giddy as any Obamaphile you'd want to meet.

(2) The GOP's incoherence.  I've already written about Joe Barton today. Tomorrow I'll write about Michelle Bachman. I'll have some more to say about Tea Party apologetics from the likes of Ross Douthat, and I'd like to squeeze in something about Newt Gingrich, too, if there's time.  Get the picture?

(3) The Dems' inability to capitalize on GOP incoherence.  It's the Dems who can't even get their 59th senator seated.  That just about says it all.  And what party is Ben Nelson in, anyway?  Does he think John McCain won in a landslide?  Does Harry Reid?

Well, I told you that part would be short.  Now to the tough stuff, some of which ties back into #3.

(4) Gathering storm clouds.

(4a) Global Warming. This past fall, George Soros appeared on Bill Moyers Journal and said that American consumer demand could no longer be the engine of the global economy, instead the new engine needed to be investment in green technology to avoid catastrophic global warming.  This was precisely right, but Obama has failed to make this connection, which should have put transition to a green economy at the center of the stimulus bill, including the restructuring of the auto industry into a more diversified transportation/green energy sector.  The continued fragmentary nature of Obama's approach to global warming, failure to make robust connections to other policy areas, and willingness to embrace corporate-backed half-measures and blind alleys ("clean coal", nuclear, etc.) all add up to falling far short of what's needed.

(4b) A law-based, "beyond war" foreign policy.  Continuing the military/imperialist foreign policy model, disdaining international law when it proves inconvenient, with the "long war" in Afghanistan as a central feature, rather than definitively transferring to a cooperative law-based model.  

ZP Heller's series of posts on Afghanistan from Brave New Films goes right to the heart of this failed policy.  The Democrats have been playing military policy on rightwing terms since the Truman Administration, and they're still surprised that they keep on losing.  As long as they remain that stupid, they will continue to lose, because it's a no-win game.

(4c) Sacrificing the rule of law for "political peace" will leave us with neither.  This has been a failed calculus ever since Watergate.  There's no reason to expect this work any better this time than it did in the past.  "Looking forward, rather than backward" is a brilliant slogan--for Karl Rove.  Failure to prosecute torture-related crimes is not just itself a crime, it is a death-warrant for American democracy.

(4d) Universal health care as a human right.  Accepting the corporate capitalist definition of the problem and acceptable solutions dooms Obama's efforts to partial success at best, which will do more to enhance the long-term position of the corporate health care/insurance sector than it will do to provide improved health care for the American people.  Obama's variant of Jacob Hacker's "Health Care For All" model was never clearly adequate to realize the promised dynamic of establishing a robust public option that could become universal over time.  Now things are only looking worse, as Obama continues to exclude single-payer advocates, whose influence would, at the very least, serve to strengthen and protect the essential logic of Hacker's original proposal.  To the extent that corporate players may eventually allow a public option under the current dynamic, it will only be as a dumping ground that's less attractive than private options, even with all their excessive costs.

(4e) Employee Free Choice Act. This is crucial for any sort of long-term political realignment, as well as reversing the 30-year economic polarization trend.  Democrats have repeatedly failed to pass major labor law reform every time they've had the chance since the GOP & conservadems passed Taft-Hartley over Truman's veto.  Obama's lack of urgency and focus on this signals a tremendous lack of long-term strategic focus.

(4f) A myopic economic policy that fails to take seriously the true magnitude of the crisis we're in. This is a theme that economists such as Krugman and Stiglitz have harped on repeatedly. I'd like to offer a few different charts to drive home the point.

First is this series of charts from "The Aftermath of Financial Crises" (Dec 19, 2008 draft) by Carmen M. Reinhart (University of Maryland. NBER and CEPR) and Kenneth S. Rogoff (Harvard University and NBER).  It consists of an analysis of a set of severe banking crises, in order to provide a reasonable framework for understanding what we are currently going through.  At the beginning of their paper, the authors say:

A year ago, we (Carmen M. Reinhart and Kenneth S. Rogoff, 2008a) presented a historical analysis comparing the run-up to the 2007 U.S. subprime financial crisis with the antecedents of other banking crises in advanced economies since World War II. We showed that standard indicators for the United States, such as asset price inflation, rising leverage, large sustained current account deficits, and a slowing trajectory of economic growth, exhibited virtually all the signs of a country on the verge of a financial crisis-indeed, a severe one. In this paper, we engage in a similar comparative historical analysis that is focused on the aftermath of systemic banking crises.

Here are the charts illustrating their principal findings.  As can be seen, the recovery periods--though they differ significantly for different metrics are substantially lionger than our myopic political class seems capable of grasping.

Here are their findings, with the accompanying chart:

Broadly speaking, financial crises are protracted affairs. More often than not, the aftermath of severe financial crises share three characteristics. First, asset market collapses are deep and prolonged. Real housing price declines average 35 percent stretched out over six years, while equity price collapses average 55 percent over a downturn of about three and a half years.

Housing Cycles

Equity Price Cycles

Second, the aftermath of banking crises is associated with profound declines in output and employment. The unemployment rate rises an average of 7 percentage points over the down phase of the cycle, which lasts on average over four years. Output falls (from peak to trough) an average of over 9 percent, although the duration of the downturn, averaging roughly two years, is considerably shorter than for unemployment.

Unemployment Cycles

GDP Output Cycles

Third, the real value of government debt tends to explode, rising an average of 86 percent in the major post-World War II episodes. Interestingly, the main cause of debt explosions is not the widely cited costs of bailing out and recapitalizing the banking system. Admittedly, bailout costs are difficult to measure, and there is considerable divergence among estimates from competing studies. But even upper-bound estimates pale next to actual measured rises in public debt. In fact, the big drivers of debt increases are the inevitable collapse in tax revenues that governments suffer in the wake of deep and prolonged output contractions, as well as often ambitious countercyclical fiscal policies aimed at mitigating the downturn.

Increased Public Debt

These figures suggest a profound disconnect between the Versailles discourse about the economy and actual historical reality we are facing.  By trying to conform to the Versailles discourse, and defining "pragmatism" in terms of its limitations, Obama may very well be setting himself for a huge fall, in light of how things are likely to play out, through no fault of his own.  This is, in fact, the common pattern that could be used to describe his timid approach to most of the items cited in this section.  

To further substantiate the seriousness and credibility of this outlook, we should note that this is not just a single-country problem.  Indeed, the IMF just announced a predicted 1.3% world-wide contraction for this year, the worst since the Great Depression.

Refelcting the systemic nature of the downturn, consider these most recent indicators from the OECD, released on April 10 ("Composite Leading Indicators continue to signal deep slowdown in OECD area" (pdf)):

And:

In short, it seems highly unrealistic to expect a strong recovery--or even a modest one--prior to the 2010 mid-terms.  How long can Obama's popularity hold up under such circumstances?  The view for the first 100 days may look pretty good looking only at (1) to (3), but with this view of the global economy in mind, it's very hard indeed to be optimistic about (4), which is much more about how history will judge these 100 days in the long run.


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Not a nice picture you're presenting us here, Paul! (4.00 / 2)
So, the decline of the house prices already bet that of 1929 and is on a good (bad) way to become higher than average, since we haven't reached the bottom yet. The same is true for capital investments, and its sad to see that its already worse than the swedish banking crisis of 1991 that so many pundits cite. As for the unemployment figures, we don't have clear numbers yet, but I guess its save to say that they'll beat those of several other crisises, the historical average and Sweden 1991. Bzut let's hope that the numbers won't reach the height of 1929 with 22%. As for the GDP development, I'm sure I saw a forecast somewhere, but I can't remember the numbers. But they'll certainly be higher than those of the Japanese banking crisis of 1992, which was basically "only" an economical stagnation. And finally the increase of public debt in the three years folowing the start of the crisis: Since the historical average stands at "only" 186%, imho it's save to say that the debt will rise higher than that this time.

Really, not an encouraging picture. We can only hope that the rescue programs will result in at least shortening the length of the downtorn. Hope dies last.  

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


If obama does not build up good will by actually doing things that are positive ... (4.00 / 6)
.. for the American people that they can actually see in their every day lives such as universal health care, credit card regulations and student loan reform, then I agree with what Paul posted once before:  his credibility and popularity will crumble on a economic Katrina event as people get fed up listening to his schtick while their lives get noticeably worse ... especially with his abominable economic team that care much more about maintaining the current corrupt power order for their financial fascist friends than actually cleaning up the mess and doing what is best for the country and the people.

Z  


Yes, but... (4.00 / 4)
... since the GOP has become so untethered to reality, their level of insanity will only increase for quite some time, thus resulting in their continued decline into irrelevence. Thus, I think it's safe to say Obama is safe and he knows as much. We've got Obama for 8 years, regardless of what he does.

The Reinhart and Rogoff paper is pretty stunning in its scope and depth. This should serve as something of a reference point for progressives. If progressives can start getting out in front of this issue, instead of always reacting to new developments, there's serious room for improvement in our collective position. Ditto for healthcare, especially since we'll all be referring to Obama's "reform" as "deform" soon enough.

As the economy continues to worsen while the Wall Street profiteers are posting mythical profits and gargantuan bonuses for themselves, this will be a great pivot point for progressives to start pushing against all who oppose them. Including the White House, if need be.

If we can knock off some Blue Dogs and maybe a couple GOP senators in 2010, that would be pretty positive in my book. I think the only way Obama starts acting like the "little people" matter is if his right-wing Dem support is weakened sufficiently to make him more vulnerable.

Ditto for healthcare, especially if this latest round of Swine flu goes pandemic. The criminal weakness in our current system will be laid bare very quickly, at substantial human cost.

"In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State" -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


[ Parent ]
Yes, but the obstructionists (since the right will already have been impotent) won't be (0.00 / 0)
how many progressives we have in Congress if he's still willing to support corporate agendas rather than a progressive one. It will be clearer when he does, since there isn't any other obvious obstruction, but let's hope he doesn't.

[ Parent ]
Oh he will. (4.00 / 3)
That's why it's important to get out in front of this and start attacking those who will support the standard neo-liberal schtick. Start depriving him of his support now, rather than wait til later.

A century ago Progressives waged a broad assault on precisely the same kinds of policies that are crippling this nation now. It takes time and a lot of effort, so waiting to see what Obama does is not smart. By the time he does something, it's already too late to mount a counter.

Obama is not a progressive. Maybe he was back in college, but he certainly isn't now. The only way we get policy to move in our direction is to build up the progressive caucus and take out some more righties in both parties.

The economy isn't going to get better for most Americans. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better. Do we want to be left to fight over the leftovers? Or do we want to take the initiative and be a royal pain in the arse to those who would screw the bottom 80%?

"In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State" -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


[ Parent ]
With friends like these.... (4.00 / 5)
I just finished listening to Simon Johnson and Michael Perino on a podcast of yesterday's Bill Moyers show. What can I say, except hail to thee, blithe spirits. (May you rot in hell.)

They seem to think that a) this is nowhere near as bad as 1932, and that as a result b) there is no constituency with enough power to fundamentally alter the status quo, and that c) on balance, this a good thing, since it doesn't throw the baby out with the bath water. They're a little nonplussed by the thought of public debt going from 40-80% of GDP, but hey, that's just the cost of doing business. Besides, no matter what people of more radical convictions want to do -- scapegoating was mentioned, and trying to legislate morality -- this will all happen again. The best we can hope for is to have it happen every fifty years, rather than every two or three.

Can the blithe spirits be right? Will it really take an apocalypse to fundamentally alter our progress toward the Mexican model of peace, prosperity and democracy? I guess we should concede that hope-you-can't-believe-in is better than none at all, and get in line now for the next Powerball drawing.  


You Got Me (4.00 / 2)
I taped, but haven't watched Bill Moyers last night. (I watch Dollhouse live, and then watch Moyers, normally, but was just too wiped out, and had too much to blog about already.)

What I can say, however, is that far too many people have been ideologically brainwashed without knowing it.  That's what the whole hegemony spiel I've been on for years is all about.  As I like to put it, "hegemony is ideology in drag as a common sense."  And so what they are saying is "common sense" to them, with no awareness at all of how ideologically influenced they are.

And, in fact, the more scrupulous they are about not being influenced by ideology they can recognize as such, the more vulnerable they are to ideology they don't recognize.  It's like something I remember The Amazing Randi saying about how scientists were the easiest people in the world for honest magicians or dishonest would-be-psychics to fool, because of a combination of factors.

First, they were simply not used to dealing with deception.  They were used to dealing with hard-to-understand stuff, but not deliberately hard-to-understand.  And that's a whole different thing.  Second, they were very smart, and it never occurred to them that someone could be fooling them.  In essence, he was saying that their strengths became weaknesses in a novel situation which they weren't prepared to recognize as such.

That happens to lots of folks these days, not just the Versailles Dems.  But the Versailles Dems are such a well-known example of it, that it helps to use them as a template, at least for the purposes of identifying the sort of thinking that's going on, or at least one facet of it.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Sorry for the spoiler (4.00 / 1)
Then again, you might have an entirely different take. I often suffer from left-wing dyspepsia these days. As a friend said to me the other day: Would it be alright with you if we don't have a revolution just yet? I just dropped a bundle on landscaping. He had a point, of course.

I hadn't actually seen you say this:

hegemony is ideology in drag as a common sense.

but I don't know how it could be put more succinctly. No one who actually has a sense of the consequences actually wants to see the kind of massive social disruptions which breaking up an existing hegemony as powerful as ours would very likely unleash. On the other hand, believing as I do that ultimately the consequences of leaving it unhindered may well be worse, I sometimes chafe at how long it will take to turn the beast around by conventional methods. Hence the occasional lapses in judgment, and the need for some sort of socialist prilosec.


[ Parent ]
One thing is for sure. (4.00 / 5)
Without major reforms, we'll be revisiting these crises on a regular basis. Such is the bane of laissez-faire capitalism. We'll also be seeing a steady degradation of the US standard of living.

After the crash of 1873, we spent 8 of the next 11 years in recession. They didn't reform anything, so they were doomed to long periods of recession for a long time. Every other crash/crisis between then and the Depression (and there were many smaller ones) also had similar outcomes. It was only the reforms of the GD that made our economy stable for so long.

Now that we've destroyed most of that, we're right back to 1873 and all that entails now.

The upper class can be blithe about it. They're not the ones who have to tell their children they'll just have to get used to living in poverty, while they watch the Masters of The Universe posting monstrous "profits" at our expense.

For millions of people, this is already an apocalypse of sorts. But can the blithe spirits see that from their gilded cages?

"In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State" -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn


[ Parent ]
Quite True (4.00 / 2)
I really did think that the lesson of the Great Depression had been learned a bit better than it had been.  Not by the national GOP, of course.  They were dedicated to destroying it.  But state governments?  How wrong I was!

And so, yes, you'lre absolutely right.  Back to the Panics of 1873 and 1893--the two biggest ones 'till the Progressives came along with their whole slew of half-measures.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Quite True (4.00 / 1)
I really did think that the lesson of the Great Depression had been learned a bit better than it had been.  Not by the national GOP, of course.  They were dedicated to destroying it.  But state governments?  How wrong I was!

And so, yes, you'lre absolutely right.  Back to the Panics of 1873 and 1893--the two biggest ones 'till the Progressives came along with their whole slew of half-measures.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Nice article Paul! (0.00 / 0)
It really is amazing!  In all seriousness, WTF is wrong with these Democrats?? Can this basic stupidity be due to poor leadership from Reid, Pelosi and the rest of the "elite lovers" or Bush/Cheney Criminal Cartel enablers...I mean are they on freaking drugs, just don't care... or whaaaattttt? Granted it certainly isn't the fault of ALL Democrats, but honestly what gives with this shit?

They're Stuck In A Time-Warp (4.00 / 4)
It's like Groundhog Day, 2005.  Terri Schiavo hasn't happened yet. Bush's effort to privatize Social Security hasn't fallen apart yet.  Cindy Sheehan hasn't shamed Bush yet.  Katrina hasn't exposed Bush as a clueless idiot yet.  The Dems haven't won the 2006 mid-terms yet, much less the 2008 trifecta.  They are living the same day over and over again, and it's a day before any of this dramatic change ever happened.

At least, that's the best theory I've been able to come up with so far.

Yeah, I know.  A little Phillip K. Dick, a little Josh Whedon.  But it beats the Hell out of anything else I've heard in the way of an explanation.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
After getting shellacked in 2004 (4.00 / 2)
over "cultural issues", Democrats turned to the ultimate embodiment of Hegelian synthesis, the Red+Blue, Black+White, Barack Hussein Obama, and won.

The early strategy of the Nixonian GOP has been to bring the Ron Paul people back into the fold, in the hopes that a Black Swan (which their operatives can create if need be...) or a faltering economy will allow them to retake the White House in 2012.

As far as the mega-trends are concerned; yes, a nation with 4% of the global population will continue to trend towards 4% of the resources, rather than our current 22% (it was ~50% after the apocalyptic WWII). Barack Obama can do nothing to stop that. Americans will just have to grow up and realize that a declining standard of living doesn't mean one should lash out and violate other people's human rights and dignity: a.k.a. The Angry White Male approach.

By siding with the Banksters, Obama is hoping that the economy will at least appear to be stable come election day. If right, he wins again. If wrong, he will have driven the Ron Paul types back into the hands of the Republicans and they may rebuild their 2004 coalition.

That gamble should send chills down everyone's spine. If the Nixonians get back into power, they will be even more entropic and wicked than before. The safer approach from Obama would have been to tell the truth about the economy and make sure the government is on the side of the little guy.

In any event, I advocate unambiguous electoral support for Obama, while articulating progressive ideals.

The main task of the left is to inoculate the collective consciousness against measuring life via the GDP and per capita income. (what religion used to do before it died) If we can break the addiction to materialism, we will have a glorious future through tech.


A synthetic synthesis, perhaps.... (4.00 / 2)

...the ultimate embodiment of Hegelian synthesis, the Red+Blue, Black+White, Barack Hussein Obama, and won.

Calling it a synthesis doesn't actually make it one. I doubt Hegel himself would've been impressed, as even he didn't think you could successfully make an omelette without breaking eggs, or pretend to a resolution where none in fact exists.


[ Parent ]
. (0.00 / 0)
I think it's necessary to distinguish between things you personally want the Obama admin to do and things that actually have bearing on his agenda.

The GOP isn't magically going to ride some populist wave against the economy into defeating Obama. They aren't going to ride some green economy wave. They damn sure aren't going to go after Obama for failed commitments to labor or prosecuting torture. So your gathering storm clouds don't really put anything at stake for Obama. Which is part of the problem. These things don't cost him politically so they are the things he's putting aside.

The only thing that could really fuck him is something you neglected to mention. Putting off immigration reform. that would fracture his coalition more than anything.


Yeah, No One Ever Lost An Election Because Of Massive Unemployment (4.00 / 3)
[ Parent ]
Reagan didn't, FDR didn't. (4.00 / 1)
Carter did and Bush sr. did.

Hardly a forgone conclusion.


[ Parent ]
'Fraid Not! (4.00 / 2)
Reagan lost plenty of GOP seats in the '82 mid-terms because of high unemployment.  But the economy was recovering just fine in 1984--thanks to good old-fashioned Keynsian deficits.  FDR had high unemployment in 1936--but not in comparison to 1932.

You can maybe pull off this sort of lame-ass shit with your friends.  But why you persist in thinking it will fly around here is a total mystery.

It just makes you look as dumb as dirt.

Which you are.

Which, I guess, come to think of it, is why you think it will fly.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
. (0.00 / 0)
Unemployment was like 7.5 percent when reagan got reelected. It was 20 percent when FDR did. Plus FDR didn't lose seats in his midterm

Not my fault you guys like justifying your politics without considering electoral history.

Why don't you go write some more pretentious entries about the progressive movement. Then maybe you can move onto policy.


[ Parent ]
Not Exactly (4.00 / 1)
1933 - 24.9 percent (the highest during the Great Depression)
1934 - 21.7 percent
1935 - 20.1 percent
1936 - 16.9 percent

FDR didn't loose seats in the mid-term partly because things were already improving.  And by 1936, unemployment was well below 20%, contrary to your claim.

Reagan's record wasn't that good, compared to when he was elected, but compared to the mid-terms (when his party got clobbered), the improvement was quite significant.

I don't expect any of this to make any difference to you, since, like I said, dumb as dirt.

But for anyone else listening in, this helps drive home my original point: If Obama were willing to talk honestly about how bad things could get, then even a little progress in the last 6 months of his first term could go a long way, because it would validate his own long-standing narrative.  It's getting clobbered when you promised better--or at least didn't prepare people, that really hurts.  That's why 1982 was a bad year for the GOP, and why 1938 was bad for the Dems, compared to the previous elections from 1930-1936.


"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
. (0.00 / 0)
Reagan's record wasn't that good, compared to when he was elected, but compared to the mid-terms (when his party got clobbered), the improvement was quite significant.

People were worse off 4 years later and he still got reelected. That would definitely be my point. That economic populism wasn't some fucking magic bullet that Mondale could ride to victory. He still lost in a landslide.


[ Parent ]
Details, Details... (4.00 / 1)
Of course Walter Mondale didn't run as an economic populist.  He ran as a tax-raising deficit hawk, listening to advisers from what would eventually coalesce as the DLC.

It was totally contrary to his long political record, of course.  But he'd been convinced it was the only way he could win.  The party's experts all agreed.

Details, details.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I probably shouldn't (4.00 / 1)
be writing here anymore.  Perhaps the most difficult thing in life is to simultaneously show respect for someone (and I respect Paul)and largely disagree with them at the same time.  

I completely and fundementally disagree with the idea that Obama is not challenging the status quo.  I don't think much of the comparisons presented here (except for Japan).  Many of the countries listed in these comparisons wound having to go hat in hand to the IMF, and none are benefitting like the US is from the flight to quality we have seen to US Treasuries throughout this crisis.  Comparing the Phillipines in 1997 to the current situation makes no sense to me at all.  The fundemental truth is the US has already deployed resources well beyond those available to any of these countries (with the possible exception of Japan)  

Are those resources being deployed effectively?  That is a matter of judgement - right now if I had to guess the answer will turn out to be mostly yes. The toxic asset disposal plan is almost identical to the one used to dispose of assets in the S&L crisis (even Roubiani supports it) and the key money center banks are on a cash flow basis profitable.  I never thought much of the nationalize don't nationalize argument, though I think I would have probably nationalized CITI, and I don't think the taxpayer got enough equity for their money, but on the whole this whole thing was made up as they went along. Fundementally I think Gietner believed that maximizing taxpayer value and restoring economic growth were to some degree at odds, and choose to err on the  size of restoring growth.  This was not, I think, so much in his eyes an ideological decision as a technical one.  

I think the stimulus package will likely be proven to be about the right size, and the economy will begin to turn late Q3(though the growth will not be enough to reduce unemployment).  This is not the Great Depression.

In political terms, I think economic growth of 3%+ (the minimum necessary to generate significant job growth)will have been restored by second half 2010.  Unemployment will then start to come down (though it is always the last to recover in a recession), and that may avert a political disaster in the off-year elections.  In addition to the state of the economy. There will be two key factors in the debate in the fall of 2010:
1. What happens at GM and Chrysler.   For better or worse, their bailouts will, I think, prove to symbolize the actions taken to restore the economy.  If they continue to bleed money I think there will be trouble for Democrats.  If, on the other hand, they stabilize and actually start showing a profit they will represent a significant victory for Democrats.  The auto companies will prove more politically important than the banks, and show how an activist government can intervene in the market place.
2.  Have the banks paid back most of the TARP money?  If most of the money is returned, perception of the TARP will change (though I don't think we are ever getting the AIG money back).


My vote (0.00 / 0)
For what it's worth, I think that you should continue to comment, even though I agree with Paul that the consequences of our present situation are going to be dire, and long-lasting, even if Obama and his crew manage -- or seem to manage -- to right the ship. I'd even say that the consequences are likely to be more dire if he does than if he doesn't, largely because his administration can't actually stabilize the situation, but they can embalm it.

I believe that we're flirting with the kind of rotten stasis which afflicts Mexico (an oligarchy supported by men wearing tall hats and black sunglasses) or the old Soviet Union (a geriatric third-world-country-with-rockets.)

Even so, I always enjoy reading what you write here. You, lord_mike and Mark Matson are about the most intelligent and articulate optimists I know, which has to be worth something, even if, in this forum, your views sometimes seem like an anomaly.

As a last enticement, just think of the satisfaction if you turn out to be right. I, for one, would be happy to eat a large helping of crow no matter how you prepare it.


[ Parent ]
Well, I Hope You're Right (4.00 / 1)
And of course you should continue commenting here.  If we don't have respectful disagreements, we might as well fold up our tents and go home.  

To begin with, rather than disagree with you on the big picture, let me just present what the authors themselves said about their data set, and then add the briefest of comments.  First, the description:

Reinhart and Rogoff (2008a) included all the major postwar banking crises in the developed world (a total of 18) and put particular emphasis on the ones dubbed "the big five" (Spain 1977, Norway 1987, Finland, 1991, Sweden, 1991, and Japan, 1992). It is now beyond contention that the present U.S. financial crisis is severe by any metric. As a result, we now focus only on systemic financial crises, including the "big five" developed economy crises plus a number of famous emerging market episodes: the 1997-1998 Asian crisis (Hong Kong, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Thailand); Colombia, 1998; and Argentina 2001. These are cases where we have all or most of the relevant data that allows for thorough comparisons. Central to the analysis is historical housing price data, which can be difficult to obtain and are critical for assessing the present episode.1 We also include two earlier historical cases for which we have housing prices, Norway in 1899 and the United States in 1929.

Then the justification:

In our earlier analysis, we deliberately excluded emerging market countries from the comparison set, in order not to appear to engage in hyperbole. After all, the United States is a highly sophisticated global financial center. What can advanced economies possibly have in common with emerging markets when it comes to banking crises? In fact, as Reinhart and Rogoff (2008b) demonstrate, the antecedents and aftermath of banking crises in rich countries and emerging markets have a surprising amount in common. There are broadly similar patterns in housing and equity prices, unemployment, government revenues and debt. Furthermore, the frequency or incidence of crises does not differ much historically, even if comparisons are limited to the post-World War II period (provided the ongoing late-2000s global financial crisis is taken into account). Thus, this study of the aftermath of severe financial crises includes a number of recent emerging market cases to expand the relevant set of comparators. Also included in the comparisons are two prewar developed country episodes for which we have housing price and other relevant data.

I find this a pretty persuasive case for using this data set as a basis for comparison.  What are the alternatives?  Comparison to previous recessions?  We already know this is worse than anything since the Great Depression.  And we know it's worldwide, too.  So this framework seems hard to ignore, IMHO.  (Please note: I'm not saying it's the only one we should refer to.  That would be foolish.  We need to triangulate off of every reference point we can get our hands on that makes sense.) Of course we could well fall on the more favorable side of the averages here, I'm not disputing that--and I hope it's true.  But it does seem like the best comparative framework we have available.

This is not the Great Depression.

This is absolutely true.  But it is the worst we've seen since then, and there's nothing else directly comparable in US history or since then.  The same is true of the global economy, as the IMF reference makes clear.

Finally, I am arguing that we have to consider worst-case scenarios, and that any political calculus that ignores them is cruising for a bruising.  To consider such scenarios is not to say that they will inevitably happen, but it is virtually the only way to prepare ourselves and put together measures strong enough to protect us against such a possibility.

This is what the whole principle of insurance is all about.  And I would remind you that that is at bottom a very conservative approach--at least in the prudential sense.

I think that continuing to think in terms of car companies is the wrong game.  We shouldn't be playing it.  We should be thinking in terms of transforming the entire industrial sector.  This is one of those rare crisis times when it's dangerous not to think big.  It's the cautious, prudential thing to do.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


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