Drinking Liberally Shot of Truth: Presidential Peer Pressure

by: Living Liberally

Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 15:30


You can argue with your friends in a way you can't argue with your enemies.  You shouldn't be scared to talk politics with buddies -- these are folks you know, who will listen to you and respect you even when you don't agree.  You can be honest...and still be pals at the end.  And if the tensions run too hot, you can always cool down again by sharing a drink.

We need to act the same with our "friends" in Congress...and in the Presidential race.  There are those who tell you not to question your party's leadership, not to challenge allies in Congress for fear you'll alienate them, or not to push on those you just helped elected...or may want to help elect.

That's absurd.  You help elect candidates precisely so they will trust you, listen to you respectfully, and give you the benefit of the doubt even when you disagree.  The Bush Dogs project is OpenLeft's way of doing that.  And Drinking Liberally has submitted a question to the Huffington Post Presidential Mashup in the same spirit.

       

It's a challenge to the supposedly "anti-war" candidates...because if we don't challenge them now, when will we?  Moreover, it asks them to challenge members of their own party to act up in Congress to end the war...because if the presumptive leaders of the party don't push them, who will?

Disagreements, challenges, even confrontations don't destroy alliances or friendships -- our bonds are stronger than that.  Our friendships should create a strong framework for these arguments.

As with so many things, it would be easier if we were all sharing a beer at the time.

P.S. This has nothing to do with the above topic, but it's too wonderful not to mention. Our Idaho Falls chapter of Drinking Liberally has started making the following stickers to put on men's restroom doors:

craig.JPG

The ingenuity of our members astounds even us sometimes.

Living Liberally :: Drinking Liberally Shot of Truth: Presidential Peer Pressure

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Why does anyone believe (4.00 / 1)
that defunding will lead to withdrawal?

We're in Iraq as long as Bush is president. He is the only person who can order a withdrawal. He will not. He is more than happy to play chicken with the lives of our troops--he's proven himself willing to let them die for his political agenda time and again.

I honestly don't understand. Are there progressives who think that if, faced with defunding on a certain date, Bush will bow to the inevitable and bring them home rather than play political games?


I submit... (0.00 / 0)
...that there is a difference between firm and spirited, but ultimately respectful, challenges and criticism of our political allies, and bashing our political allies. I agree that the former should be encouraged, but that the latter should not.

Much of the complaint that I have recently seen posted in the progressive blogosphere (not so much on this site, but quite present on others) is of a bitter tone of invective and disdain, and appears not oriented toward challenging or persuading, but rather toward bullying their targets into submission. This, I submit, is behavior both counterproductive and self destructive for those who claim to be trying to build a progressive movement, as the ultimate result of these rants is the demeaning and belittling of our erstwhile political allies. I am less concerned about alienating our friends in Congress than I am about the poisoning of the electoral climate for them that such invective can effect. We should be challenging our friends, but not demonizing them.

I hereby submit that every Democrat who voted for the original war spending bill - the one that DID mandate troop withdrawal - has thereby stated their ultimate desire and intention of ending this war. These people should be treated as friends and allies on this issue, and any disagreement that we may have with them on subsequent war-related votes should be presented with the respect accorded a friend and ally.

That means not calling them cowards.


Here's why... (0.00 / 0)
The founders gave the Legislature the "power of the purse" to chain the Executive dogs of war.

The president nor his commanders can obligate government resources (i.e. troops) without funding authorization from Congress.

The withholding of funds is the default choice Bush would make if he vetoes Congressional legislation that ends the occupation and brings the troops home.

Let's assume Bush vetoes the bill and Nancy Pelosi shelves it upon its return to the House. Bush would begin pressuring Democrats by slinging the false "endangering our troops" rhetoric, while exhausting uncommitted pipeline and limited DoD funds to buy time for the Dems capitulation.

Before the well dries up, Bush and his commanders would have to begin withdrawing troops. The federal anti-deficiency act prohibits commanders from obligating the government without funding:


An officer or employee who violates 31 U.S.C. § 1341(a) (obligate/expend in excess or advance of appropriation), section 1342 (voluntary services prohibition), or section 1517(a) (obligate/expend in excess of an apportionment or administrative subdivision as specified in an agency's regulation) "shall be subject to appropriate administrative discipline including, when circumstances warrant, suspension from duty without pay or removal from office." 31 U.S.C. §§ 1349(a), 1518.

In addition, an officer or employee who "knowingly and willfully" violates any of the three provisions cited above "shall be fined not more than $5,000, imprisoned for not more than 2 years, or both." 31 U.S.C. §§ 1350, 1519.

I don't think we'd find many commanders willing to go to Leavenworth for Bush.

Moreover, ordering his commanders to violate this law would make an easy case for Bush's removal from office through impeachment. (I can hope, can't I?)


Not sure about this (0.00 / 0)
I clicked on the link and took a look at the statute in question. It seems to me like your argument is a bit of a stretch. By my read, the act simply regulates payment. Government officers may not pay money, or commit to pay money, that hasn't been allocated to them. It doesn't say anything about regulating any of the behaviors related to the said payments - like troop deployment. In other words, this act does not prohibit Bush from deploying troops to Iraq, nor does it empower military officers to disobey his commands. It just says that, if they haven't been allocated the money, they can't buy the bullets/food/parts etc. that they may need. This, of course, is exactly what those of us who oppose the defunding option are concerned about.

Also, I believe (though I could be wrong about this) that there is another law called the Food and Forage Act which allows some kind of an override of this regulation if necessary in active combat zones.

All of that said, I  am not a lawyer. Is there anyone here with legal expertise who can shed further light on this? Am I missing something?


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