Criticism vs. Vitriol

by: David Sirota

Fri May 08, 2009 at 16:30


Just a quick note at the end of a very long week to say that my appreciation for OpenLeft has grown in the last few weeks, primarily because there is something very important that differentiates this community from most of the blogosphere: This community seems to understand the difference between criticism and vitriol.

Criticism is healthy and necessary - as a professional writer, I can tell you that there is nothing more that I value than substantive criticism and critique. It makes me better at what I do.

Vitriol, by contrast, is criticism without substance. Typically it is totally ad hominem: "This article has no point," "I don't know why they let a terrible writer like you write," "You are a millionaire pundit who knows nothing," etc. Put another way, vitriol is criticism/critique/debunking not of the substance of what was originally written, but an attack on the writer in a substance and fact-free kind of way.

Most of the interactivity on the web is vitriol, not criticism - that is, most of what happens on the web is someone posts a researched piece with facts, and then the majority of commenters who oppose the piece refuse to take the time to respond with contrasting facts (ie. substantive criticism), but nonetheless feel the need to respond in some way, so they respond with vitriol (For a typical, if banal, example of the latter, see some of the comments over at the Ft. Collins Coloradoan in response to my latest column).

The problem is that vitriol doesn't help advance anything - it doesn't make the writer of the original work any better, nor does it further any discussion of substance among the community. Vitriol, in short, doesn't just have no value - it has negative value. It's a toxin that destroys everything around it.

Criticism is the opposite - it advances everything: it makes writers better and it furthers discussion of substance so as to move a community towards enlightenment and education. Criticism, by the way, can be completely harsh - it can be toughly worded, tenacious, biting and even nasty. And usually, that doesn't take away from its value - as long as it is substantive, well-documented criticism, and not substance-free vitriol.

Though we've all devolved into vitriol at times (and sometimes, in my own case, too quickly), I think the OpenLeft community innately understands the difference between criticism and vitriol. It's not that we don't give each other shit - we do, and we should. But we mostly give each other criticism, not vitriol, which is pretty rare in the blogosphere.

Perhaps that's because we trust the intentions of each other more in this community than in others - trust, after all, breeds mutual respect. Or perhaps it's something else. I don't really know, but what I do know is that I'm sure this is what makes this site so valuable - and so different. And I'm thankful for it.

David Sirota :: Criticism vs. Vitriol

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Agree (4.00 / 4)
This is my favorite blog for just that reason.  There are some good arguments and opinions but the vitriol is kept to a minimum.

Agree (0.00 / 0)
This is my favorite blog for just that reason.  There are some good arguments and opinions but the vitriol is kept to a minimum.

we heard you :-) (0.00 / 0)
You liked it so much you said it twice :-)

But I second that emotion.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
the admins set the tone (4.00 / 3)
At times I have felt Open Left admins were too quick to ban users, but I appreciate that they are paying attention to the level of discourse and trying to keep it reasonable.

At some other blogs, mobs unfortunately rule.


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The Cathedral and the Bazaar (4.00 / 3)
That analogy coined to describe the creative dynamics of opensource software is what is working at OpenLeft more more than any other sites I participate in. Frontpagers often are catalysts for the discussion and I learn more in the comments threads where contributors don't just engage in "criticism" but bring something substantive from their own experience and knowledge into the discussion.  

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

Big difference between here & Kos (4.00 / 3)
Much more thoughtful analysis and insight here, generally speaking.  Too many flame wars over there, though I do use it as my news aggregator, essentially.  

Good post, David. (4.00 / 5)
I became convinced in 2007 that some people use what you desribe as vitriol as a deliberate tactic to distract discussions and to force out certain posters, mostly those who are economic populists and have a class-based critique of certain strata in the Democratic Party.

The tactics are analogous to those people who in years past would break up political meetings by starting brawls.  While the people employeeing the tacts are not brown shirts, the tactics certainly resemble them, brought to a new medium of the internet.

The idea is to push away readers because the discussion is so nasty, and to "bait" the author into angry reactions, thereby running up the author's negatives.    

If one becomes a critic of power relationships, especially in the Dem Party, and even in the netroots, one can draw such attacks.

It's not conspiracy, as far as I can tell, although I also am convinced that attacks on you on dkos were coordinated at times via, at the least, e-mail messaging.

My experience was that the attacks made me so alienated that I wanted to leave, although I did not.  I was targetted because of the notoriety I received as an advocate for Edwards, but I saw many others targetted.

These appear to be individuals.  Their idea of politics is nastiness and ad hominem attacks.   Annymity serves them well, but there is more than that at work.

I know it may sound paranoid, but I beleive it is real based on my own experiences, watching you, and watching others fall victim to gang bullying.  

 


You're not paranoid (4.00 / 1)
The patterns are there and are unmistakable. I don't comment there either for much the same reason. I'm not going to waste my time dealing with that kind of BS.

But politics is a full contact sport, as The Clenis likes to say. Goes with the territory.

That is also why I like this "place." It's a good crowd.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
hear hear (4.00 / 1)
I agree 100%, even if my personal follow-through rate is far less then 100%.

not that it matters, i'm sure (0.00 / 0)
but "this article has no point" is not an ad hominem attack. it's not very detailed, and you may not agree, but it is a comment on the work, not the author.

i just love scrolling down from you writing "... Establishment-minded activists, party-first sycophants, and other assorted incumbent-worshiping starfuckers ... " to you talking about how vitriol is bad.

i mostly agree with the point you're making, i think, but at the same time, to my eyes, you're one of the worst instigators of just these kinds of flame wars. i guess where we differ is that that if, in your personal judgement, it is "substantive, well-documented criticism", then it's OK, no matter how many distracting gratuitous insults are in the mix. i think that kind of thing is a waste of time. opinions vary.

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mm hmm (0.00 / 0)
I pretty much find that there's a very strong correlation between the tone of the main author/principals of any given blog, and the tone of those who comment on that blog. Like, the front pagers at OL are usually very thoughtful, so the commenters are very thoughtful for the most part. And when there's a lack of vitriol in a front pager, there's generally a lack of vitriol in comments...

[ Parent ]
The nail's head (0.00 / 0)
"Perhaps that's because we trust the intentions of each other more in this community than in others - trust, after all, breeds mutual respect."

We've demonstrated that this kind of trust is a beneficial environment for all involved. Perhaps such should be expanded and extended to those outside this community?

I happen to think that this lack of trust is one of the root causes of GWB's low popularity. He and his cronies set about undermining the trust that citizens desire to have in their leaders at every turn. Without trust, they had no respect.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


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