I am actually glad they are attacking because (4.00 / 6)

when they are making kissyface with Dems, I know it's the people getting screwed.

Maybe there is hope for some actual reform.

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by: Tom Wells @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 13:02:04 PM CDT

yeah, and now, since obama engaged them and they blinked, they look (0.00 / 0)

hypocritical and intransigent.    

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by: seabrook @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 13:11:11 PM CDT

Only to the tiny minority of people paying attention (4.00 / 3)

In this particular situation, they don't "look" like anything to the vast majority of the public. It's hard to remember, but the vast majority of the public doesn't pay attention to this shit in the minute way some of us do. It's a lesson I've learned over and over and over again while hosting drive-time big-city radio here in the heartland.

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by: David Sirota @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 13:46:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not only that ... (4.00 / 2)

but I just read something at Ambinder's place that is highly instructive ... what is Obama's big deal? .. finding a consensus .. he's obviously very serious about it ... so we can only hope that the insurers keep over playing their hand .. and force Obama to get off his consensus nonsense(especially in this case) and force him to stick it to the private insurers.

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 14:07:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

great. which means that no one knows that obama "engaged" them, or "legitimized" them either... (0.00 / 0)

the argument cuts both ways.  either obama's and the companies' actions have no significance in terms of how the debate plays out w/rt to the insurance companies, or they do...

i was arguing that his actions, and the insurance companies' subsequent actions, have strengthened the hand of the forces for real reform, by making them look ridiculous right out of the gate.  

   

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by: seabrook @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 17:34:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Except there's in any case (4.00 / 1)

an (at least) equal and opposite argument.

Namely, Obama has conferred on them great credibility as voices in the debate and partners in the process. They must, according to Obama, be given seats at the table -- how, then, can Obama now claim them to be die-hard enemies to reform?

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by: frankly0 @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 16:20:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

because they are coming out with nasty ads against (0.00 / 0)

reform?  anybody? no?  ok... i guess i'll just stop trying around here.    

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by: seabrook @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 17:28:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The only question is why President Obama (4.00 / 1)

Throwing "people" under the bus in favor of corporations is what he does, who he is.   GM can't poop without the Car Czars OK.   GMs Obama approved recovery plan calls for GM to increase imports from Mexico and Asia by huge amounts and to close 4 US plants and reopen them in China.  Meanwhile, Michigan is at 12.6% U3 unemployment and predicted to hit 20% in the next few months.  MI's four quarter U6 unemployment rate is already at 17.2%.  72,000 people are scheduled to run out of unemployment benefits on July 1.  The only place they have to go is to welfare to apply for food stamps and medicaid. The Bill Clinton TANF programs requires all welfare recipients to report to job search centers 30 hours a week like its their fault they are unemployed, bankrupt and can't find a job in a 20% unemployment rate.  

If Obama is willing to save the corporation at the expense of the workforce, well what the hell does that say.  Obama is a corporatist.  Of course, he is going to come down on the side of the insurance "industry".   Nothing is going to change.  His whole campaign was a lie.  He is a lie.  The whole system is a lie.  

I think Americans need to quit shopping, quit spending, save every penny like there is no tomorrow.  It is the only power we still have.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

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by: dkmich @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 15:46:33 PM CDT

We can also throw a monkey rench in the system with boycotts (0.00 / 0)

and civil disobedience.  We can also unite the right and left third parties against the dems and republicans.  

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by: Dameocrat @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 17:10:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Mostly agree (0.00 / 0)

Yes, Obama is a corporate, conservative Democrat (but not at the extreme edges of some of the Blue Dogs).  In the case of health insurance, he told us this over and over again in Iowa.  Obama said that we can't get rid of insurance plans because the insurance companies employ three million people (that is a lot of inefficiency built into the system from my point of view).  Obama said he does not believe in mandatory plans.  It was obvious that even under the best case many millions of working age Americans would not be covered.

None of this should be news.  I am surprised he's pushing this as far as he is but expected Obama's plan would grow the insurance companies by purchasing more insurance plans rather than by providing a single payer system.

My guess a year ago was that Obama would end up giving the country universal health care for children and the elderly but would do little for uncovered working age adults.  I wouldn't be surprised to see full coverage for children and only modest additions for the working age.

Obama seemed very easy to figure out but many people preferred not to.  That was very irritating during campaign time.  Today I am not satisfied but actually am less upset because the deal is clearer to more people.  

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by: David Kowalski @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 21:38:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Time to stop playing fair (4.00 / 2)

Single-payer is our thing. Congressional conservatives will not fight to have it included in the final package.

So it's our job to fight back. As someone who lives in a country with regressive libel laws and a great admirer of the 1st Amendment, I say you fight back with vicious personal attacks.

Find people who've had Blue Cross Blue Shield refuse to pay for their care. People who've had surgery mishaps whilst covered by BCBS. Profit margins. Disgruntled employees. Anything. Then run a five minute infomercial in the DC media market attacking all out, trying to draw blood wherever you can and delegitimise their voice.

Wait for beltway journalists to pick it up, get the talking heads expressing disapproval for such harsh measures but saying they merit investigation, then threaten to do it to any other insurer who puts their head above the parapet.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 15:49:01 PM CDT

President Obama said in a speech... (4.00 / 4)

recently, I don't remember which one, something to the effect of "Today's health care system no longer works for Harry & Louise."

I'd love to see one of the organizations pushing for single payer, or just uhc in general, reprise Harry & Louise only this time documenting how the current system has failed them.

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by: potus2020 @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 16:35:57 PM CDT

Precisely! (0.00 / 0)

It has forever amazed me that as much of the "creative class" that populates the left, its is the right that manages to put out the most memorable ad campaigns.

I like this idea in particular because it subverts the "Harry & Louise" ads, which are so engrained in our collective conscious that they are alluded to in comedy routines and animated TV shows (often on FOX, go figure).


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 18:37:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Everyone is asking why and how? (4.00 / 1)

Two big reasons. The first is that Obama has begun believing his own press and PR. The second is that Obama believes that either no one is paying attention (which may be true) and/or we will actually fall for this side show. The health interests of the American people are going down in flames and Obama is serving tea and scones at the WH. We should all really resent being taken for granted.  

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by: hivanh @ Tue May 19, 2009 at 20:34:28 PM CDT