Two Big Questions for the Weekend

by: Chris Bowers

Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:00


On a slow news day before a holiday weekend, I am thinking more about broad questions of history than I am about the news. Two questions in particular have been occupying me over the last few days:

  1. Has Grand Ideological Struggle Ended In the West? Over the past month, I have argued that the actual ideological differences between left-wing Democrats and right-wing Republicans are surprisingly minimal when it comes to the economy. That phenomenon is not just limited to the United States, however. Public spending as a percentage of GDP in wealthy democracies has been stagnant for over 25 years now, according to the OECD (PDF, page 4). This surprising lack of policy change across Western Europe, North America and Japan is enough to make one consider Francis Fukyama's Last Man and the End of History thesis might be correct, at least within the context of OECD nations.

    While it is fairly obvious that grand ideological struggle and political turmoil continues in most of the world, and that the outcome of those struggles are far from clear, it also seems that liberal democracy with public spending at 35-55% of GDP has proven itself to be the most stable form of government instituted within the past 250 years. No OECD government has been overthrown in the past 50 years or more, either. As such, while there is no guarantee at all that this is the "final form of human government" for the entire world, or even for most of it, it does appear exceedingly unlikely that this form of government will be replaced within the wealthy countries where it currently has taken root. So, my first question is, was Fukuyama right, at least when looking at OECD countries?

  2. If we don't pass health care and climate change in 2009, is there any chance of passing them later on? It seems unlikely to me that the current legislative battles we are facing over reducing greenhouse gas emissions and increasing health care investment will be re-opened at any point in the Obama administration if they are defeated in 2009. Examples from previous administrations suggest as much. After the Clinton attempt at health care reform was defeated in 1994, it was not reopened during the next six years of his presidency. Much the same happened to Bush on Social Security, which he never re-opened after mid-2005. Even the Democratic Congress never really bothered to reopen the Iraq fight after they were defeated on it back in May of 2007.

    When a President or new Congress loses on a big legislative fight, it is highly unlikely that he / they will ever accrue enough new political power to win on that same fight at a later date. Members of Congress who withstood the first push for the legislation in question are not likely to be swayed during the second push. Also, specific to President Obama, it is unlikely that he will ever have as high approval ratings and as much political capital as he has right now. Further, it is unlikely that the Democratic majority in Congress will increase beyond current levels in any significant way--especially if we are defeated on health care. Without big new legislation, we are close to maxing out..

    As such, my second question is whether or not 2009 will be the apex of legislative activity under the Obama administration and the Democratic trifecta. Are this summer's legislative fights over health care and climate change our one and only chance to pass meaningful reform in those areas for another 10-15 years? I think it might be, but I would like to hear your thoughts.

Those are the two big questions I am contemplating today. In addition to hearing your thoughts on these questions, I would like to know what "big questions" are occupying your mind.
Chris Bowers :: Two Big Questions for the Weekend

Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
The end of economical ideological struggles.. (4.00 / 1)
I think we are obviously close, as there is little argue with the numbers you have presented over recent months.  Still, although the US is now in the ballpark with other western nations as far as public spending per gdp goes, the public things we spend those funds on still differs from other western countries.  Primarily, we spend way more on defense (war) than others.  I recognize from a percentage standpoint we would still be talking about small numbers, but moving billions of dollars per year from war-making capabilities to health care and education would be something we would all feel.  Again, it seems we are close to the end of the road when it comes to amount of public spending, but there are definite differences of opinion on how that public money should be spent.  

I'm not so gloomy as you are on health care and climate change.  If Obama loses, yet the ideas remain popular, I could see him campaigning for it against targeted Rs in 2010.  You wouldn't even have to defeat enough Rs to win the future battles.  Pick a few winnable races where the R stood in the way (say Bachman in the house, Gregg's vacated seat in the senate) and wage a full throttled war on that issue.  All you need to do is beat a few of them to scare the crap out of many more.  This of course all depends on Obama remaining popular.  But as long as any losses can be sold as R obstructionism, and the health care and climate change initiatives put forth are popular, Obama shouldn't suffer too much (at least not outside the south) and he should be able to beat some targeted congresspeople to show who is in charge.  Maybe this is too naive on my part, but I think it is an option that wasn't available to Clinton in the 90s.  What to do about defector Ds is another story though.  I don't think Obama would ever support a primary challenge to an incumbent, let along campaign for said challenger (unfortunately).  


with reconciliation (0.00 / 0)
there is simply no way Republicans can stop health care reform. It would have to be killed by the Bayh-Nelson caucus of the Democratic party.

It would be a bit hard to blame the failure on the GOP. Dems need to be able to campaign on the success of passing health care reform in 2010. Voters will not swallow the idea that the rump GOP caucus is that powerful.


[ Parent ]
Explicit & Specific (0.00 / 0)
I think you should be explicit and specific here, because I think I agree with you.

a) Republicans cannot stop HC reform by virtue of reconciliation.
b) Some Democrats can stop HC reform because they are conservative, industry-pocketed tools.  

I actually think that the crappiness of these some Democrats will backlash into depressed turnout of many different kinds of Democrats and Democratic-type voters across the nation in 2010.  

They can't be rallied against the intransigent turds of the GOP, but they "the Democrats" (oy does our party system in the U.S. really frustrate me sometimes) as no different and say "Why bother?"  


[ Parent ]
Still lots of ways to struggle over economy (4.00 / 2)
President Obama proposes to spend $707 billion on the military in FY2010. This is $11 billion more than on Social Security and just a little less than he proposes for Medicare and Medicaid. Ending our two wars, closing some of the 800 military bases, and shifting, say, half of the military budget to SS and Medicare would be a big change. And shifting to a single-payer healthcare system so that our healthcare costs go down and everyone gets covered would also be a big change. How much private industry is regulated is also important.

So I agree that a capitalist system with public spending of 35-55% and government regulation is likely to be the dominant mode for the foreseeable future, but there is still a lot of wiggle room within those parameters -- plenty enough for left-right battles. For example, I can imagine a capitalist society meeting these parameters in which the richest person earns only two or three times as much as the most poorly paid person. High estate, wealth, and income taxes could smooth out the inequalities and a culture of egalitarianism and compassion could shame greedy people who expect more and ensure those at the bottom were always well provided for. Given our current society, it may be hard to imagine such an egalitarian society, but many of the Scandinavian countries are not that far from this model.



[ Parent ]
Things to consider (0.00 / 0)
When you consider that Dems had the trifecta in 1993-94 and tried health care but failed, then re-won the trifecta in 2009-2010 and are now trying health care again, you realize that there wasn't necessarily a natural recoiling against touching health care during this time. It's just a simple fact that the Dems lost Congress in 1994 and national health care reform was not a priority for Republicans. Dems didn't retake congress until 2007, and didn't take the presidency until 2009.

I think health care reform for Democrats is similar to tax cuts for Republicans. Even when they fail at it, they don't just give up. It is something they campaign on, raise money on, get elected to do, and must keep trying at.

So I disagree with the idea that this is our one shot in the next 15 years to do health care. If the GOP takes back Congress in 2010 and holds it for 15 years, then yes that would come to pass. But if Dems hold or increase majorities in 2010 or 2012 while keeping the presidency, they would take another crack at it. It's not like the health care issue will simple go away, or that costs will come down by themselves.

That said, this may be our best chance to pass a health care bill with teeth. We shall see.


Trifecta (4.00 / 2)
I actually disagree with the premise that Democrats had a trifecta (is that even a word, the spell checker certainly doesn't think so) in '93, even though it is technically true.  Back then we still had a large number of Dixicrats in congress, giving us 4 national parties in effect, not the two we see today.  We still have problems with the more conservative Democrats, but not nearly to the extent back then.

[ Parent ]
Quibble (0.00 / 0)
I don't get your four parties.  I only count three.

Northern Democrats
Southern Democrats
Republicans

There was diversity within each, but enough coherence to posit them as separate parties, though the former two caucused together in Congress to look like one.  

What's the fourth?


[ Parent ]
not really (0.00 / 0)
Orrin Hatch, John Kyl and James Inhofe aren't much different from the southern Republicans. And the Northeast GOP still votes with their party 80% of the time, especially on critical issues.

[ Parent ]
You need to go back a bit (4.00 / 1)
Goldwater and Rockefeller, to be precise. The Dixiecrats/Southern Republicans and Western Republicans have tended to blur together these days, but their ideological roots aren't the same. Goldwater's libertarian leanings, and his distaste for social conservatives were important factors in his political makeup, and until relatively recently, when the Mormons stuck their noses in, were dominant characteristics in the AZ strain of Republicanism, and in Western Republicanism in general.

[ Parent ]
Technically true means it is true (0.00 / 0)
We are talking about which party controls congress. Dems controlled Congress in 93-94, even if they had a lot of Dixiecrats.

Dems control Congress now, even if we have a lot of midwestern Corporacrats. I understand your point, which focuses on why health care didn't happen in 1994 (and may not happen now), whereas my point is that the Democratic party didn't give up health care reform for 15 years. They simple lost control of Congress and/or the presidency for those years.


[ Parent ]
is there any chance that healthcare doesn't pass this year? (0.00 / 0)


I argue below, no (0.00 / 0)
But what passes is a really big deal.  The bad guys can still win by surviving a few body blows and waiting this thing out.  The system will be improved, I'm sure, but it could be only at the margins if this doesn't play out correctly.

[ Parent ]
A couple thoughts (4.00 / 2)
While it is fairly obvious that grand ideological struggle and political turmoil continues in most of the world, and that the outcome of those struggles are far from clear, it also seems that liberal democracy with public spending at 35-55% of GDP has proven itself to be the most stable form of government instituted within the past 250 years.

I think this is correct.  I argued against a more narrow interpretation yesterday, but I think the general outline of capitalist society with broad social safety nets has become the consensus.  For the U.S., we still have a ways to catch up, particularly when you factor in military spending, so I expect more movement over the next generation than you do, but I accept the general premise.

China worries me though.  My hope is they are slowing moving to the same end result but through a different direction, but I certainly don't know that.  My fear, quite honestly, is they come up with another stable model far worse than the Western agreement.

If we don't pass health care and climate change in 2009, is there any chance of passing them later on?

Obama can force climate change regulation through the EPA and has already claimed he will do so if need be.  (Or at least I read something to that affect, I'm not sure Obama has personally said anything on the matter.)  So he basically can't lose if he chooses not to.

For health care, I think it will come down to what passes, not if something passes.  I suspect Obama will "win" as far as the press is concerned, but I fear the win will be very small.  Obama has already shown his willingness to play hardball (conference reconciliation) and compromise, making it pretty clear he can force something to pass.  I just don't know what.

Personally, I think both issues will be revisited every year anyway.  Neither issue will be solved with a single bill, anyway.  Both require some very large bills, but also require lots of smaller changes across the board.  Moving the country to CA millage regulations, for example, is the type of thing I expect to see more of over the next eight years.


did you forget to add "Except here" (4.00 / 1)
I think the general outline of capitalist society with broad social safety nets has become the consensus.

Subject to revision, of course, based on what (assuming something) passes on Health Care, but if a broad social safety net was the consensus, you would not see the Republicans so merrily wanting to destroy what's left of it.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
No OECD country has been overthrown (4.00 / 2)
But, France had a military coup in 1958.  

That was the last one, I think (0.00 / 0)
There was another attempt in 1961, right?

[ Parent ]
A more confrontational relationship with Israel? (0.00 / 0)
The stage is set with Obama insisting on an independent Palestinian state while Netanyahu is on record to be against it. With Obama calling for a halt to illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Netanyahu openly unwilling to intercede. And with Obama insisting on diplomacy with Iran and Netanyahu calling for military strikes. With Hilary Clinton and George Mitchell, will Obama have the ideal team to breakthrough the hawkish Israeli positions and reignite the peace process?

The big differences (0.00 / 0)
between the two parties are on social issues and foriegn policy.  The differences are real, and have significant impact.

On domestic issues each party in large terms accepts globalization as a force that is either beneficial or alternatively is inevitable.   I do not think the party consensus on globalization is stable over time, and the differences on this issue would not necessarily be captured in the % GDP spending numbers.

On the whole, though, Fukijama was more right about the end of history than most are inclined to admit.  


What Kind? (4.00 / 1)
The question on globalization is not whether it is happening or if it's inevitable or if it's beneficial, it is what kind of globalization will occur and both who it benefits and how it benefits them.  Clearly, the answer has been that of the toxic neoliberalism that prioritizes markets and marketizes all relationships, enriching and empowering the rich and the powerful.  

Neoliberalism (in the context of globalization, among other contexts) itself is an ideological construct, and one that seems powerfully hegemonic in public discourse.  But it is certainly opposed by other versions, and the cultural artifacts on which an opposition to neoliberalism, be it in the way of globalization or other ideas-cum-issues, can be built exist.  



[ Parent ]
No Yes (0.00 / 0)
#1 This issue is far from settled. Simply because "No OECD government has been overthrown in the past 50 years or more" does not mean that these (or some of these) may not fall under the weight of the demands accrued from the nation - states produced by their guiding ideologies. Whether the ideology you describe will survive as a founding principle, or be reduced to one of the competing ideologies that pervade the extra-OECD world and where "that grand ideological struggle and political turmoil continues".

#2 Whether there is a good health care program passed during the Obama Presidency is all a matter of timing, but basically I think he gets one shot, so make it count. There needs to be a lot of public education done on this issue. We've been BSed for so long, there's no way anyone (not even Prof. Obama with Ross Perot making his PowerPoint slides) can make a rational argument based on details at this point. So, if they take this time to start educating the public, then I won't mind waiting. If not in 2009, then tie the issue to the mid-terms in a positive way and when the GOP loses again, claim a mandate. No sense rushing. Look how well that worked in Iraq and TARP. Planning a reasoned approach takes time.

Like a caller on the radio said yesterday: Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid!" and now we have to say, "Health care IS the economy, stupid!".


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


Big Question: How to bring about a more fundamental transformation of society (4.00 / 1)
I know that a society that adhered to progressive ideals would be far superior to our current society. There would be far less war, poverty, crime, misery, violence, corruption, fraud, murder, rape, oppression, exploitation, domination, rankism (racism, sexism, classism, etc.), and violations of privacy. Moreover, even those who would "lose" from the transition to such a society -- those whose wealth and privileges would be diminished -- would still probably be happier since they would live in a civilized society instead of this rather barbaric one.

I also know that, under the right circumstances, the transition to such a society could come about very quickly. The changes in policy and the changes in consciousness in the 1960s among minorities and progressive college students was phenomenal. People changed their perspectives and lifestyles dramatically in just a few years and for many these changes persisted for decades in the face of a vicious and pervasive backlash. If the movement had just been 50% or 100% stronger, just imagine what change it could have brought about.

So the question that boggles me is: How can we bring about the transition to a progressive society? How can we muster the resources to challenge the massive power of the power elite as well as overcome the entrenched bad habits/cultural baggage/ignorance that we all have/carry and that drags us down. I see several possibilities, but also have seen their limitations:

1. Electoral politics seems to get us part of the way there. But Obama seems to be the most progressive politician that we can elect to the presidency. Electing someone like Dennis Kucnich or Bernie Sanders seems very unlikely. Also, the corrosive effect of Washington seems to erode the progressive fire of even the most stanch activist (I'm thinking of Ron Dellums here) so over time even our best efforts get watered down.

2. Progressive Washington lobby groups can have a lot of impact, but they are dependent on liberal (not radical) funding. This creates an inherent barrier to big change. Also, there are 50,000 well-paid corporate lobbyists bearing gifts to Congressmembers if they'll vote against our positions, so bringing about change this way is very difficult.

3. Grassroots movements work pretty well when there is widespread direct oppression and pretty high consciousness (civil rights movement, labor movement), but not so well for more abstract principles (peace, environmental movements) or for areas in which there is low consciousness (classism). Most movements rely heavily on a few hardworking fanatics or on cult-like organizations, but both of these models have obvious limitations for creating an egalitarian and democratic society.

So how do we actually bring about a transition from our barbaric society to a civilized one? I wrote a book suggesting one idea, but the book did not have much impact (to say the least) :) partly because it was published the day before the 9/11 attacks. I'm still trying to figure out what the next step is.


On 2 (0.00 / 0)
Yes. I'd extend it to this Congress (Jan 2009 to Sep 2010) because I think climate change will not be up for a final, conference vote until 2010 after Copenhagen for a variety of reasons. And if we wait another 15-20 years on both of those issues the impact on our economy, climate and people will be disastrous and at least in the case of climate, unchangeable.  

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power

I could imagine one other point (0.00 / 0)
when Obama's approval ratings and political capital could be at a similarly high level: namely, if and after he is reelected by an even wider margin than the first time. But clearly, reelection is going to be heavily impacted by the outcome of these legislative battles. So you could theorize that if we manage to pass at least mediumish-strong legislation, we could have another shot to make it stronger; whereas if we only pass something really pathetic or nothing at all, we might be fucked. However, reality is complicated, and I think other scenarios -- for example, health care and climate legislation fail utterly, but Obama wins reelection by a crushing margin nonetheless as a result of economic recovery and general Republican haplessness, and then gets to take a second shot at it -- are also well within the realm of the possible.

A modest dissent (0.00 / 0)
1) Francis Fukuyama's track record as a prognosticator is somewhat suspect, to say the least.

2) The first time I saw this thesis laid out in detail was in Daniel Bell's The End of Ideology. It was published in 1960, for Chrissake, back when I still had hair.

Then came 1968. What really upended Bell's technocratic fling as God's vicar on earth, though, was the advent of Reagan and Thatcher. You might say that what we're seeing now has pretty well proven that they were the genuine radicals, and that what was supposed to have been an age of managerial elites who had the answers to everything, and would spend their very well-rewarded careers taking a nip here, and a tuck there has proven as much of an illusion as the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, no matter what those still embedded in it tell each other.

3) Tim Geithner may have pulled of his Jesus routine with the international financial system, at least for the moment, and Obama may very well get his preventive detention centers (Escape from New York, anyone?) but  this system, which is supposedly blessed by a permanent international consensus, is actually quite fragile, and the major stresses on it are only just beginning. (Global warming, anyone, or peak oil, or a failure of industrialized agriculture, or water wars?)

4) Now is not the time to be counting your chickens. They might very well turn out to be alligators.


Bell's World (4.00 / 1)
Seems to me that Bell's world was based upon an ideological construct of assuming Keynesian macroeconomics and tripartite labor-capital-state detente.  Elites would manage the system, but the system had a character.  Maybe Bell didn't acknowledge that, or get it.  

[ Parent ]
Very true (0.00 / 0)
That thinking was pretty much standard at the time, although Bell went farther, and to give him his due, was much more astute than many were. You have to remember that, apart from the cold warriors, there were a lot of self-confident elitists around in the early days of the Kennedy Administration.

The technocratic liberals had successfully engineered the purge of leftists from the labor unions, survived the threat of McCarthyite populism, and were watching postwar prosperity remove almost all the ideological dragons from their path. Most of them really thought that the world was now their oyster. Walter Lippman's wet dream come true, so to speak. I've always thought that that's the reason why the Kennedy assassination came as such a terrible shock to them.

Robert Hutchins' Center for the Study of Democratic Institutions, the premier liberal think tank of the day, actually preached for a time that the great problem of the late twentieth century was going to be what to do with leisure. I don't know if any of their documents on the so-called Triple Revolution are still around today, but if they are, I guarantee you that they'd make for some ironic reading.


[ Parent ]
No on 1 (4.00 / 1)
I've already commented on this a couple of times. Spending is too narrow a measure, for so many reasons. Whether that spend is financed primarily through taxation or through deficit spending is just one example of ideological differences.

What we saw in the late '70s was a very deep & broad  cultural shift in two countries uniquely positioned to impact the direction of the rest of the world. It was decades in the making, and only now is receding, or at least has been momentarily arrested. I think what we are seeing now is a bit of lag time, as the political world is changing on a glacial, seemingly geological pace, while the general public is too ignorant (and mass media has too much self-censorship) to contemplate and register the events that are taking place.

In the middle, however, is a broad group, the educated class, and judging from the more cerebral web sites, this group is in the midst of a Thought Revolution.

So I think it will take some time, just how much depends on just how much we let it.  


a firm maybe (0.00 / 0)
for #1: don't discount the possibility of authoritarian regimes of one kind or another, particularly nativist xenophobic ones (which may be labeled "left" or "right" depending on specifics and who's doing the labeling). since when it comes to climate change all we are doing now is trying to limit how badly we're screwed, there are going to be a lot of stresses on all world governments. "blame those guys" is always an easy and popular answer.

for #2, i only have a question - is there any possibility of serious primary challenges in 2010 or 2012 to the Senate Democruds that are the real obstacle to useful, substantive legislation? if there was some such shock to their system, then maybe you could see movement on topics that had died earlier.

but mostly i agree with what's been said above. i think they know the smart thing to do is to pass some kind of bill, that they can trumpet as "serious responsible action" but that at its heart leaves The Money sitting quite pretty and undisturbed. actual overt failure would be easier to overcome later than phony success.

not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.


If this is the apex, we're doomed (0.00 / 0)
One might, with profit, look at what the econoblogs are saying about where the country is headed. "Banana Republic" seems to be the term of art for what happens when local elites loot the economy so badly it crashes.  Some of them say that the East Asian currency crises are the similar case; others say Argentina.

So, I don't accept the assumption of stability.  

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


Donate to Open Left









QUICK HITS

Friends of the Earth thanks the OpenLeft community for the ideas you generate and your contributions to the progressive movement.


blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search