Center-left, center-right (0.00 / 0)

This whole discussion on whether we are center-right, center-left or whatever never seemed very real to me.  These are relative terms and have no meaning without a context.  How is the center defined?  Compared to whom?  Without that context, the conversation is meaningless.

Compared to most of Europe, for example, it seems we are center-right on most issues, but center-left on issues like freedom of speech.

If you look at poll statistics, it appears the general population is very wishy-washy.  Roughly speaking, 1/3 will side with the left, 1/3 with the right and the remaining third will change depending upon how the question is worded.  This makes it very easy for either side to claim moral majority.

What people really want, of course, is low taxes with lots of government spending that comes from free money delivered on magical ponies.  True, but not very helpful.

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by: Mark Matson @ Thu May 28, 2009 at 17:12:33 PM CDT

"If you look at poll statistics..." (4.00 / 1)

Uh, that's what this report that David linked to and discussed does.  If you want to reject their evidence and arguments, go ahead - but I'm not sure you should dismiss them without making reference to them.

As for compared to whom, in this context, I think they mean by convention. The report points to evidence that people believe that government should do more, in various elements of gay rights, in less power to corporations, in government responsibility to ensuring health care for all, etc. (This includes evidence that is inconsistent with your low-taxes, high-spending, pony argument.)

These positions, and others mentioned in the report, are generally acknowledged as left-leaning in the US today.

I agree that these sorts of left-right distinctions are often not helpful as analytic categories, but that's not the same as suggesting that they are meaningless. For the moment, our political discourse takes them seriously, and pretends that most Americans fall on the right side of the spectrum. I think it is worth challenging where we place most Americans.

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel

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by: David Kaib @ Thu May 28, 2009 at 17:42:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Is everyone on vacation? (4.00 / 1)

A well written article about the actual demands of the American pub;lic for real change in America, based on the basic demands of progressives as we work together now, healthcare and the environment and jobs and infrastructure spending, and we get these comments?

What people really want, of course, is low taxes with lots of government spending that comes from free money delivered on magical ponies.  True, but not very helpful.

This? I guess most openleft readers are on vacation.

If we have one job as progressives, if we have one task as blog using political activists it is organizing the demands of the public for progressive governance into action; it is communicating to the public that they are the majority, that they are not alone in demanding these progressive actions, that they have the power to make the democracy work to their agenda; it is working together in a spirit of cooperation to achieve real ends that make the ordinary voter feel the power they have to run their democracy.

I for one apologize to David for the paltry response he got for this timely important catch.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:25:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Most Open Left Readers (4.00 / 1)

First of all, don't blame most Open Left readers for anything stupid I might say.  I certainly didn't mean to attack this report or (this time, at least) David.  The specifics are important for the reasons you give.

But up on meta-level, I really dislike the center-right, center-left debate for all the reasons I pointed out.  Yea, sure, from a hegemony stand point it is important, but it is meaningless without context.

Here, let me lay out the real context if it helps.  The U.S. Government has been consistently to the right of the U.S. electorate for a very long time on economic issues.

And yes, as for my last point, I've seen too many statistics over the years put out by interest groups (or, as in this case, highlighted by one) that support their own point of view.  I've seen them from the right and the left.  While they must contain some real information, I no longer trust them at face value.  To many opinions are malleable to wording.

My comment on magic ponies actually comes from my disgust over the state of California.  If you want to know what the people really want, look no further.  Over the years they have been given the ability vote for a variety of propositions and they continually voted for more spending and lower taxes.  They've backed themselves into a corner with no obvious way out.

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by: Mark Matson @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:44:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

. (0.00 / 1)

"Partisan war syndrome" was succeeded by a democratic sweep of congress, and "dear leaderism" seems to be the product of putting together one of the strongest grassroots movements in recent history.

apparently these afflictions seem to have symptoms of dramatic changes in electoral landscape. forgive me if i don't seek a fuckin cure soon.

Is there a such thing as a correct Sirota prediction?

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by: NeonBlack @ Thu May 28, 2009 at 21:05:53 PM CDT

As normal already gaining at least one troll. (4.00 / 1)

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean in relation to anything, except it contains some insult or another.


Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:27:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

how many years did 'more democrats' set us back? (0.00 / 0)

of course, argueing that better dems would equal PLENTY more dems was DFH stuff in '04 and '06 around these blog-o-topia hoods filled with the 28 and 35 year old hotshits wearing $600 glasses.

hopefully blog-o-topia is stop drinking the watered down broder kool aid.

rmm.  

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way

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by: seabos84 @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 06:55:39 AM CDT

Wow completely unintelligible. (0.00 / 0)

I make so many typos, people have thought to say wtf sometimes, but this, this is wha?

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:15:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

unintelligible cuz 'history' started 4 weeks (0.00 / 0)

ago when you discovered politics?

and you were where during the great blog-o-topia wars of '04 and '06 and '08 when the CONVENTIONAL WISDOM for too many was

'more and better Dems', even though we kept working for and electing sell outs and chickenshits who were a few degrees off of the bush raygun fascist middle?

I KNOW what the problem is!

I did NOT write a 40 paragraph f'ing TOME! shit, I forgot how well they worked for dukakis against willie horton and kerry against swift boats!

rmm.  

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way

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by: seabos84 @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 11:28:27 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I am sorry again. (0.00 / 0)

I still do not understand the criticism.
Yes I was here in the "blog wars"

You dont need to write long articles, but, don't assume that the shorthand you know well is available to everyone.

Are you saying the dirve for more better dems is a bad idea? Or are you saying it hasnt worked yet. Or are you saying it never will because all dems are and always will be bad people?


Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Sat May 30, 2009 at 14:16:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]