Socialized Postal Delivery (4.00 / 4)

We tackle a similar theme in this video that Laughing Liberally just produced with SEIU:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

The opponents of a public healthcare plan also don't use public post offices for their mailings...

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by: Living Liberally @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 12:58:53 PM CDT

can someone (0.00 / 0)

explain to me why the U.S. post office is billions of dollars in debt while FedEx and UPS (which charge more money for their services) are making a killing?

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by: RR @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 13:12:41 PM CDT

Because the post office (4.00 / 5)

must maintain services in rural counties that are not profitable.  

This has been the problem for years.

And THAT is where the analogy to Health Care bothers me.  In a competitive system the private providers are going to try and skim the healthy and try and leave the government with all of the sick.  As a result, the government solution will look much more expensive, and the profits of the private companies will go up.

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by: fladem @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 13:48:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

will healthy people have the option to choose the govt plan? (0.00 / 0)

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by: 11luke @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 14:10:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yes (0.00 / 0)

but that doesn't mean that the private-ers won't try to offer very low premium plans that might just "skim off" the healthiest people, while letting the government system take up the chronically ill.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 14:29:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is already happening, thanks to Bush & Repubs (4.00 / 1)

They're called HSA's, and were expressely designed for young, healthy and reasonably well-off people, raising costs for everyone else because they're so inexpensive. An effective health care reform bill will have to not only set up a viable public option, but also scrap these sorts of plans because they're bad for the system overall.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

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by: kovie @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 17:59:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Because it's a service, not a business (4.00 / 2)

Which is exactly what healthcare should be. A decent basic service for all.

If you want extra, if you want a whole barrage of probably unnecessary tests, then you should be using a private insurer. That's why things like the NHS give lower survival rates for rare cancers than top US medical plans. But they aren't equivalents.

And the fact that the insurers fear a government plan out-competing them just shows how fat and lazy they've gotten off easy profits.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog

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by: Englishlefty @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 18:26:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

it was self-funding until recent years (4.00 / 2)

I think budget problems are also related to more electronic mail. In 2009 they will deliver less mail for the first time. Meanwhile their operating costs are the same or higher.

The delivery business is changing but the fact that they operated side-by-side with private delivery services for decades discounts the notion the public will put private out of business.  

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by: tremayne @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 14:02:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not quite a killing (0.00 / 0)

Actually, FedEx shipping volume has been down (~17%?) and they lost money in the first quarter.

But, the good news for them anyway is that YRC is close to bankruptcy.

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by: DrTalc @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 16:26:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, noezz... (4.00 / 4)

"Socialized mail"??!! And what next? Socialized police? Socialized fire protection? Socialized schools? Even socialized slush funds for Wall Street executives?

Let's face it, American "capitalism" wouldn't work without... Yes, a little bit of socialism. And really, this fight over the public option in health care is downright ridiculous. The rest of the developed world (and much of the developing world) has implemented single-payer a long time ago, and it works well. And we may not even have the chance to choose a public health plan?

Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.

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by: Andrew Davey @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 13:23:12 PM CDT

44 cents! n/t (0.00 / 0)

Jeff Wegerson

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by: wegerje @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 13:27:01 PM CDT

Student Loans (0.00 / 0)

Are another example of where the private sector/public sector work side by side.   the fact that the govt is in the business of loaning student's money didn't put the private lenders out of business.  

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by: 11luke @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 13:46:23 PM CDT

DHL Almost Gone (4.00 / 2)

DHL ceased its domestic U.S. shipping services at the beginning of 2009. It was something of a campaign issue due to the massive job losses in Wilmington, Ohio. (Ohio being a swing state and all, and Wilmington being the former DHL hub.) That could be the reason why Obama doesn't use this particular analogy.

I tend to think the whole frame is wrong, though. Obama should be focusing on Americans' health. Concern for the health of non-persons (i.e. corporations), in and of itself, is absurd and dangerous, and he should say so. There are over 50 million Americans (and climbing) who do not have the choice of healthcare. That's a profound market failure. Government has a role to step in and offer an additional choice.

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by: BBCWatcher @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 14:17:14 PM CDT

Schools might be a better analogy (4.00 / 1)

 We have public schools everywhere in the country, and most parents send their children to them. By and large, most Americans are satisfied with the public school system (though of course the level of satisfaction varies from district to district). Voucher proposals tend to lose big when put across to the voters.

  But that hasn't stopped private schools from operating and thriving. Public and private schools have coexisted in this country throughout its history, and neither has driven the other out of business.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

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by: Master Jack @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 16:40:30 PM CDT

Not a Good Analogy (0.00 / 0)

Schools aren't federal. Public option proponents recognize that state-level or local-level co-ops are nothing like the federal public option and will not help improve healthcare costs and quality all that much.

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by: BBCWatcher @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 17:04:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is a bad analogy (4.00 / 1)

The price of stamps went up to 44 cents, proving the failure of government-run programs!

But seriously, anyone claiming that the government can't run anything effectively and efficiently deserves to be ridiculed to the point of tears and run out of town on a rail. When FedEx and UPS can deliver a 1oz letter coast to coast in 2-3 days for under 50 cents and service every part of the country, then we'll talk.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

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by: kovie @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 18:03:41 PM CDT

i believe you will find that usps delivers some ups. (0.00 / 0)

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by: breid1903 @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 19:00:28 PM CDT

Yes, that's true. But from what I understand, it works the other way as well. (0.00 / 0)

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by: jcr @ Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 19:42:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]