Kerrey: "I'll kick the shit out of any liberal who tries that."

by: Matt Stoller

Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 00:59


That was Bob Kerrey, on Democrats that wanted to defend Social Security from privatization.  Jonathan Singer has a comment, echoed somewhat heatedly by Lowell Feld at Raising Kaine on Mark Warner.
Matt Stoller :: Kerrey: "I'll kick the shit out of any liberal who tries that."
I think this ties in well with a broader conversation going on within the netroots and progressive circles about whether it is better to exclusively support candidates who are with us on most every issue and who speak and act in ways that forward the movement, or to support candidates who may not be with all of the time and/or who may speak and act in ways that don't always forward the movement if the election of those candidates would help the Democrats get closer to 60 votes in the United States Senate. This debate pertains also to Nebraska, where it appears that Bob Kerrey, who is hawkish on the war and has shown a willingness in the past to to deviate from the progressive line, is eyeing a return to the United States Senate. To a lesser extent it also applies to Democratic primaries in states like Oregon and New Hampshire, where the establishment pick is not by any means bad (in fact in both cases fairly progressive) but where there is also a strong grassroots candidate in the mix.

We approach this problem from different roles.  Singer and Feld have been consultants for candidates, I have been primarily a consultant for causes.  So it makes sense that they are aggressive about rejecting criticism of Democrats, whereas I am not. 

That said, I have to say that I find this conversation curious and frustrating.  No one is putting forward the notion that Mark Warner or Jean Shaheen should lose their race to a Republican, though somehow that always seems to be the straw man that is often used to discredit so-called intolerant progressives.  Shaheen and Warner both have progressive tendencies on some issues, and it's not clear there's a real alternative in either case.  But you can't just say that Bob Kerrey disagrees with progressives on some issues some of the time and that he'll be a good reliable vote getting to 60 the rest of the time.  It's not just that the Senate doesn't work like that, it's also that Social Security and Iraq are core bedrock progressive tenets of society.  Before Social Security, a third of the elderly lived in poverty, and the Iraq war has killed hundreds of thousands of people and will end up killing millions more.  This is not like disagreeing on gun control.

There's also a real strategic disagreement about what makes a strong party.  I don't think there's much leverage in boosting team Democrat at all times, since that strikes me as mindless cheerleading, though from 2002-2006 this was an essential task.  At this point, there's a lot more leverage for social change in working to improve the Democratic Party and doing so against the tide of insiders who don't want reform and competition.  If this party doesn't change, the calcified culture will lose to Republicans in 2010, or 2012.  And it's well-known in branding that you have to stand for something; Bob Kerrey, like Lieberman, will ruin our ability to brand our party as the party of common sense and of the people.

At heart, what really is going on here is that Feld and Singer believe that criticism of these Democrats is harmful to the party, and I believe that criticism of these Democrats is helpful to the party.  Both are reasonable views, though starkly different in their moral assumptions.  My read is that fighting for better parking spots for Democrats is both fruitless and worthless, but that a democratic process works to create a good and moral society, that more speech is better, and that power ought to be treated with tremendous skepticism. 

If Singer or Feld want to defend Bob Kerrey, they can and should go right ahead, but they will be defending a Senator who attacks Democrats and liberals with the same ferocity as Joe Lieberman.  If they want to set 60 votes as the only goal, then they must also defend the House majority that passed the warrantless wiretapping bill.  And they have to defend the fact that Bush needed, desperately, a Democratic Senator to cosponsor his privatization scheme in 2005, and couldn't find one.  Kerrey would have been Bush's person, and Social Security would be gone, and millions on their route to elderly destitution.

Now, I'm not making the case that Kerrey should be opposed by progressives.  I haven't made up my mind on that.  What I do know is that the downsides of a Kerrey in the Senate are large, and real, and that the 60 vote magic number should not be an excuse not to deal with them.


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Primaries (4.00 / 3)
I think that a lot of the Democratic establishment is so traumatized by 1994 (and the mean things that Republicans say about them) that they are convinced that they have to keep their progressive beliefs in the closet in order to keep their jobs. 

They are really unhappy about primary challenges because it will make them stand up for progressive principles and they're afraid that they're in the minority on those.  So they'd rather we just shut up and fall in line behind whomever they have chosen to try to sneak into the seat by mouthing poll-tested platitudes about school uniforms or "no one wants to end the war more than I do".

I believe that our ideas are better than the Republicans, and the more we talk about them, the more people we can win over to our side -- even in Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi. 

I remember 1992.  Bill Clinton, Paul Tsongas and Jerry Brown toured the country debating the future of the Democratic party and the country actually tuned in and listened to them, and I think the Democrats benefitted from the exposure.  [Remember that Clinton won Louisiana in 1992.] 

Imagine a healthy debate over the next months about Iraq, health care, and the private equity tax break, not only among Senators Clinton, Edwards and Obama, but also between Governor Shaheen and Jay Buckey, Senator Kerry and Ed O'Reilly, Al Wynn and Donna Edwards, and in hundreds of other races around the country.

We Democrats have a lot of good ideas, and debate is healthy.  Why not get some free press for our party as we mix it up, even if we eventually end up convinced to vote for the candidates blessed by the insiders?  Competition is healthy, and we have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Voter Genome Project


This Is SOOOO True! (0.00 / 0)
In fact, there's a whole nother level to this argument.  The fear of another 1994 completely misunderstands the nature of that election.  I'm reading bits and piece of this book, Three's A Crowd: The Dynamics of Third Parties, Ross Perot and the Republican Resurgence, and the data are pretty compelling--the GOP success in 1994 came out of a successful bid for the Perot voters of 1992.

But the GOP was diametrically opposed to the Perot voters on their two most salient issues--economic nationalism and the budget deficit.  It was Clinton "moving to the center" and pushing through NAFTA that was really decisive, IMHO, since this totally blurred the two parties in Perot voters' minds. And, as far as the defict is concerned, Dems were far too passive throughout the 1980s in fighting back against Reaganomics, which produced those huge deficits in the first place.

In short, if the Dems had been both more progressive, and much more involved in making their points in public debates, in order to shape the political discourse, then it's very likely that the Perot phenomena might never have occured in the first place.

We gain nothing by narrowing the political debate and making it more shallow.  We stand to gain enourmously by broadening and deepening the debate.  They're the party of sound bites.  We should be the party of sound ideas.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I was undecided before but I don't want him in the Senate (0.00 / 0)
A comment thread of mine from daily kos

http://www.dailykos....

I felt about Bob Kerrey throughout the late 80's and the rest of the 90's the same way I felt about Lieberman. The man was a constant narcissist who was happy to undermine the Democratic party and its principles. Sure sometimes he surprised you and didn't burrow from undernenath....but he's a loose cannon.  Your point about Social Security in 2005 was very telling, that if Kerrey was in the Senate he would haven been Bush's go-to guy.

My second thought in the thread that if he was inevitable....because as much as the netroots may not want him, we may not prevail.  So maybe some attempt on our part to push, prod and cajole him might have some effect.  He left the Senate before the internet era.  In the 80'she responded to the right and the DLC because they were prevailing then....so maybe he's also capapble of change for the better in a new and differenet era.

I apologize.  I will not be able to reply to anyone; family issues intervenes. 

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


Kerrey (4.00 / 2)
Bob Kerrey was such a consistent and vocal opponent of the Clinton Administration that I thought it was due to jealousy from Kerrey's poor performance in seeking the Democratic nomination in 1992.

Kerrey, incidentally, was known for two other things.  He was a recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service in Vietnam (one of 245 Vietnam vets to earn this Medal and one of two "politicians", the other being Admiral Stockdale who Ross Perot chose as his VP nominee, Stockdale performed very poorly and really was no politician) and he dated the actress Debra Winger while she was filming Terms of Endearment in Nebraska.

Like most things about Kerrey, even the Congressional Medal of Honor proved to have a down side.  He was more recently proven to have commanded a MyLai type incident where an innocent village was savaged and over a dozen civillians were killed.  One of Kerrey's men accused him of slitting an old man's throat, an accusation which Kerrey denies. 


[ Parent ]
primaries (0.00 / 0)
Why should national netroots ever get involved in primaries? I understand the necessity in the Edwards/Wynn race, because that is an extreme case, but in general, why not stay out of primaries?

Kerrey is horrible on Social Security, a matter of basic principle, and wrong on Iran. If Nebraska Democrats want him, so be it, but I don't think there should be any national support.

As for NH, I feel the same way. National netroots should step aside during the primary and let NH Democrats sort it out amongst themselves.

As for Mark Warner, the beauty of his candidacy is that he will win in a landslide without the help of national netroots, freeing up money and blogging talent for progressive Democrats who may not be so fortunately situated.


because what happens locally affects everyone nationally (4.00 / 2)
A Senator from Nebraska, say, doesn't just vote on what happens in Nebraska; that person helps make national and international policy, just as does every other person in Congress, no matter where they are from.  So why shouldn't I support someone whose national (or even global) views align with my own?  That doesn't make me or anyone else a king- or queenmaker--the candidate still has to win the vote.

You yourself admit as much.  What makes Edwards/Wynn extreme? 


[ Parent ]
primaries (0.00 / 0)
Wynn is a Trojan horse, consistently voting against the interests of his consitituents in a district that would support a progressive politician.

Anyone who wants to privitize Social Security is against the interests of Nebraskans, unfortunately Nebraska voters do not see it that way. I think Bob Kerrey is ghastly, and his being ghastly will affect all of us. However, I am far from convinced that national netroots would recognize better if they saw it. The local voters can see candidates close up, they are more likely to know the backstory, and better able to judge if a candidates rhetoric is matched by his actions. National netroots is more likely to permit themselves to be hoodwinked. Just my view.


[ Parent ]
but national netroots is local (0.00 / 0)
You make it sound like national netroots and local folk are two completely separate entities.  But the national netroots is composed of local people everywhere, who literally live in locales all over the country.  There's all sorts of interlocal conversations going on that then become national ones.

And how do you know that Wynn is "voting against the interests of his constituents?"  By your logic, if you don't live in that district, how can you make such a claim?


[ Parent ]
Wynn/Edwards (0.00 / 0)
Wynn has a horrible voting record. Edwards has a solid record of progressive work. She doesn't just make progressive noises, she has a history of accomplishment that demonstrates her commitment.

Action speak louder that words, and Edwards actions demonstrate that she would be light years ahead of Wynn. In cases where the contrast is clear, then national netroots has a role to play.

There are local blogs and there are national blogs. There is a role for national blogs to get involved in local races, in a general election where a progressive candidate could use a boost. (Virginia House of Delegates 13th district is a great example of where national netroots could give a boost to a deserving candidate). General elections are completely different from primaries because in a general election the choice of clear.


[ Parent ]
let me make sure I'm clear here (0.00 / 0)
So apparently now it's okay to get involved in local primaries where there's a candidate who has a solid record of progressive work.  So how do you determine what constitutes a solid record of progressive work?  Your criteria for that might well be different from someone else's, perhaps someone who actually lives in the local area where the primary is being held.  Are you going to impose your criteria on that local person?  Aren't you then being exactly what you say we shouldn't be?

I mean, how do you think people who live elsewhere come to support a candidate in a primary?  It's because that candidate establishes a record, talks to people, those people talk to others, etc.  Of course there are local blogs and national blogs, but people talk to each other all the time, you know.


[ Parent ]
impose my views?????? (0.00 / 0)
on what planet? I just an obscure voice in a comment thread.

Speaking only for myself, I think there are extremely rare cases where getting involved in a primary makes sense, but for the most part supporting progressives in general elections is the better use of money and talent.

I don't expect to be in a position to impose my views on anyone.


[ Parent ]
because that's the gist of what you're saying (0.00 / 0)
And you've just said now, twice, that it's okay for the national netroots to get involved in two different local primaries.  So what makes it okay then and not elsewhere?  Why should your criteria be the ones that matter?  According to your rubric, you've already offended people in two different locales.

[ Parent ]
National Netroots are Local... (0.00 / 0)
Until the "national" netroots say "screw the local netroots" and start bashing our candidates. You can't have it both ways, either. You either are listening to us, or you're not. But the grassroots in Nebraska are with Kerrey whether or not the "elite" bloggers are.

Further Reading

[ Parent ]
That's Absurd! (4.00 / 1)
Why should national netroots ever get involved in primaries? I understand the necessity in the Edwards/Wynn race, because that is an extreme case, but in general, why not stay out of primaries?

Kerrey is horrible on Social Security, a matter of basic principle, and wrong on Iran. If Nebraska Democrats want him, so be it, but I don't think there should be any national support.

Would anyone seriously suggest that no one outside Nebraska should contribute money in a Nebraska primary?  Would anyone make that argument for any state or district?

So, uh, it's fine for the moneybags to pick their candidates.  But the peons like us should just shut up and eat what's served, right?

And how, exactly, is that any different from what the Republicans believe?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
primaries (0.00 / 0)
I don't think national netroots properly vets their candidates and I don't think that they can.

No, I don't think peons like us should just shut up. I think we should respect the judgment of our fellow peons in primaries.

There is a limited pool of money and a limited national attention span, my preference would be for that money to be reserved for progressive candidates in general elections.

Incidentally, I think there is a real possibility that if there is a primary in Nebraksa, national netroots would come in on the side of Kerrey. That is what I want to avoid. Let the locals sort it out.


[ Parent ]
This Still Makes No Sense (0.00 / 0)
Large donors don't act like this.  Why should we?

We're talking two different parts of the election cycle, and you're acting like there's only a fixed amount of money out there, when we know quite clearly that there is not.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
You don't get progressives in general elections (0.00 / 0)
if they don't win the primaries first.

The notion that locals are better able to evaluate where candidates stand on issues that affect everyone may have been true fifty years ago but modern communication technology (gee, like the internet) makes physical proximity pretty meaningless.

And in fact there isn't a limited pool of money and progressive candidates are usually well funded in the general election because of the DSCC and DCCC. But they're routinely underfunded in primaries and will continue to be so long as corporate PACs get involved in local primaries and we don't. Actually, part of the reason the resource pool isn't limited is that people have a limited attention span and are much more likely to give to candidates they just learned about then candidates they've already given to. Further, the netroots can never give enough money to make a huge difference to a candidate that is already funded. Where the netroots does make a difference re: fundraising is with early money that can lay the groundwork for a much stronger campaign. Getting involved in local primaries is the best way to leverage our advantage: our interest is obscure and early.

Now, none of that means Kerrey is the guy to target. The fact that he might be the only Democrat who can win the seat is a pretty damning argument against trying to get a primary going. I want to see how that Fahey guy polls before anything else.


[ Parent ]
You're kidding me, right? (0.00 / 0)
I mean, seriously. You're going to honestly tell me that the internet allows someone in Philadelphia or D.C. to understand voters in Scottsbluff, Kearney, and Omaha better than a Nebraskan?

I believe we have a powerful medium here, folks, but you're not going to convince me that you know better than a Nebraskan what Nebraskans will vote for.

Further Reading


[ Parent ]
Thats really not what I said. (0.00 / 0)
At all.

Why do I have to rely on locals to tell me Kerry has a terrible position on the war?


[ Parent ]
You can rely on the locals... (0.00 / 0)
To tell you that anyone with a position to the left of Kerrey on Iraq would have to run to the right of Ben Nelson on every other issue to even have a chance at winning a statewide election. In other words: Chuck Hagel. You willing to make that trade-off on the behalf of Nebraskans?

BTW, I suggest you actually take a second to research Kerrey's position on Iraq. It's far more nuanced than "stay the course." A lot closer to Biden than most of you give him credit for - not that Biden has a lot fans around here, anyway.

Further Reading


[ Parent ]
Truly (0.00 / 0)
I'm not arguing that he's a bad candidate. I was just taking issue with the initial commenter's position that the netroots shouldn't get involved in local primaries as a rule.

[ Parent ]
To add... (0.00 / 0)
That every successful primary challenge started at the local level. Ned Lamont started with Connecticut Democrats who were fed up with Joe Lieberman.

Voters still matter, folks. We're the ones who decide elections.

Further Reading


[ Parent ]
Washington state (0.00 / 0)
I think it was great that national netroots squashed a primary challenge to a progressive candidate who was making a second run. I don't like that the DCCC was preparing to back a conservative Democrat against a challenger with such obvious promise. It also demonstrated to the DCCC that in situations where progressives create an opporunity, you can't go in and put up a candidate. So, speaking only for myself, I thought that was a great idea.

But in general I think both the DCCC and national netroots should stay out of primaries. It is not always obvious who the stronger candidate should be nor who the more progressive candidate is. You really have to be close to a situation.


[ Parent ]
But Generally, The National Netrooks DO Stay Out (0.00 / 0)
Or, rather, different folks take different sides, there's no one consensus candidate.

And when that's not the case, there's generally a pretty good reason for it.

OTOH, equating the DCCC and the netroots is like comparing apples and watermelons.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Lieberman-Lamont, that's why (0.00 / 0)
Lieberman still won re-election, but the national netroots were crucial in ending his identification with the Democratic Party.

I'd much rather have Kerrey in the Senate than Hagel, if there were a way to get past the party ID/branding concern.  Kerrey's a guy who'd vote Dem maybe half the time, but that's still way better than Hagel.

But I'd give some $$ to a strong progressive primary candidate if one stepped up, just to make it clear that a lot of Dems, in Nebraska and elsewhere, are less than enamored of Kerrey.

Best case would be the progressive winning the primary and the election, although that's a longshot.  Second-best case would be Kerrey running and winning as an independent, so that the Democratic Party wouldn't have its brand tarnished by him, but we'd still get his vote more often than we'd get the vote of a generic Nebraska GOPer.


[ Parent ]
I hope people understand... (0.00 / 0)
That this is Nebraska, that Nebraska Democrats love Bob Kerrey, and that there's generally very few Democrats who can win a statewide election - Kerrey is one of maybe three. The other two are friends of Kerrey.

We'd be lucky to get a generic Nebraska Republican. Instead we have this list:

- An Attorney General that makes Sam Brownback look sane.
- A former Omaha Mayor who made a career out of being vindictive and divisive.
- A Schuyler businessman with a history of drug use.
- And Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns.

The least bad of those candidates is a current Bush administration cabinet official. You really want to take your chances with that?

Further Reading


[ Parent ]
Social Security--More Important Than You Think (4.00 / 1)
Before Social Security, a third of the elderly lived in poverty,

Um, no.  Before Medicare, a third of the elderly (35%, actually) lived in poverty. Before Social Security, we have no hard and fast data.  But it was 40.8% in 1949, the first year for which "post-transfer' income data is available.  Social Security payments started 10 years earlier.  It's quite plausible that before Social Security, two thirds of the elderly lived in poverty.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


agreeing and disagreeing (0.00 / 0)
I think all of the commenters and Matt can agree that Kerrey is wrong on Iraq, Iran, Social Security, and a few other issues.  We all agree that he would support things like raising the minimium wage.

Kerrey to me is like Bob Casey.  He is wrong on a few important issues, but right on others.  Remember though, without Casey, we wouldn't have a majority in the Senate.  Now maybe a more progressive candidate could have beat Santorum in theory (I don't necessarily think so) but the money DSCC saved by not worrying about PA was used in MO and MT and TN and VA and RI that were critical in winning all but one of those seats.  I doubt we would have won MT or MO or VA without that.

Having candidates like Kerrey and Warner and Shaheen allows the party committee to stretch more for more seats, something that will make fillibustering good bills harder and easier to get more progressive legislation.  If you do get a bigger majority in either chamber, you are going to get more moderate members, that is just the nature of the game.

Pushing for causes will be alot easier when there are more people who are more willing to listen to you in seats of power, and Democrats in general will be more willing to listen to you than Republicans.

Truth over balance, progress over ideology


Not necessarily (0.00 / 0)
You posit a choice between Casey and Santorum, but Matt's talking about primaries, so to use your example of Pennsylvania:  Without Casey we'd have Barbara Hafer.

Voter Genome Project

[ Parent ]
In Nebraska... (0.00 / 0)
The choice really is between Kerrey and a Republican, though. A primary challenge would be foolish and wouldn't have the support of a single person with any influence within the Nebraska Democratic Party.

Either the netroots is connected to the grassroots of the party, or it's simply ego on the part of people who think they know better than the local folks how to win elections.

When's the last time Stoller or Bowers bashed a Republican with the same fire that they bash Democrats on a daily basis?

Further Reading


[ Parent ]
Would it have the support of the people without influence? (4.00 / 1)
So the establishment wants Kerrey (see my post above about why I think the establishment acts the way they do). Do we want to act like the establishment?

What do the people want?  Has anyone run a real economic populist campaign in Nebraska lately?  Why is it foolish to try?  If Nebraska really is more in tune with Kerrey's economic policies, then he'll burnish his moderate credentials by running against such a challenger and it will make him even stronger in the general election.

If we're serious about a 50 state strategy, we should be testing the real Democratic message in all 50 states.

And as long as people in Nebraska or Virginia or Florida tell me on boards like this that I should vote for the most conservative candidate for President because people would never vote for a candidate who believes what I believe (former New Yorker and now Californian that I am) then I am going to at least try to convince the people who don't live in New York or California that our ideas are better than the Republicans and conservative Dems.

Voter Genome Project


[ Parent ]
If we're serious about a 50 state strategy... (0.00 / 0)
We better damn well listen to what the people in those states are saying. Democrats in this state love Bob Kerrey. You may not, but frankly, we don't really care.

I'm not going to ask anyone to support a "more conservative" candidate for President to help us in Nebraska. I'm asking that you figure out that Nebraskans get to choose who represents Nebraska. No one else.

Further Reading


[ Parent ]
How does it hurt if we ask Nebraskans to decide? (0.00 / 0)
I am not talking about running a third party spoiler against Kerrey if he gets the Democratic nomination.  I am asking why I should listen to the Nebraska establishment  when it tells me to shut up and just send a check.  And if the Nebraska netroots is saying the same thing, shouldn't we at least point out to them that they're starting to sound a lot like the establishment insiders that we want to challenge?

Have there been any recent issue polls without his famous name attached?  How popular is the Iraq War?  How popular is privatization of social security?

How does it hurt Kerrey to have to win a primary first?  See my example above about 1992 and the extended primary campaign helping to attract voters to our ideas.  If he really is loved by Nebraskans, winning big in the primary could be a great send-off for him. And maybe his opponent will raise some issues that have resonance with the voters and which cause Senator Kerrey, who is a thoughtful person, to adopt them as well (like Clinton adopted Tsongas's message of balancing the budget).

Voter Genome Project


[ Parent ]
And I'm asking you to realize... (0.00 / 0)
That we are going to look very unfavorably on outsiders (read: non-Nebraskans) trying to challenge Kerrey. This race will be decided by Nebraskans. If a Nebraskan wants to run against Kerrey, that's fine. But I think you need to learn a little bit about our state.

Iraq is roughly 50-50 in Nebraska. It's getting less popular, but no Republican can reasonably take an anti-war position, and the only things Nebraska Republicans are thinking about right now is who's pro-war enough for them. Since they outnumber us 2:1, a pro-withdrawal position isn't going to work.

Kerrey's position (which I would beg you to research a bit more; he is an intelligent man, even if he is dead wrong on this issue, he's far more nuanced than Lieberman) forces the Republican candidates to take the extreme position: that of indefinite occupation, or lose their base against an extremely popular former governor and senator.

In the nominally nonpartisan unicameral, there are 15 Democratic senators out of 49 seats. Two big city mayors, and three city councilmen in each of those cities. Roughly two dozen elected officials at the local levels, plus a few in smaller cities. All of them elected without partisan affiliation on the ballot.

The number of current officials in the state of Nebraska who were elected with a (D) behind their name? Two. Public service commissioner Anne Boyle, and Senator Ben Nelson.

This is one of the toughest places in the country for a Democrat to win, so cut us a little bit of slack, and if you want to help us out a little, we'd appreciate it. Not just for Kerrey, but potentially for Scott Kleeb in NE-03, or Jim Esch in NE-02.


Further Reading


[ Parent ]
I agree - let Nebraskans decide, not the establishment (0.00 / 0)
I'm not talking about bringing in someone from out of state to challenge Kerrey (speaking of which -- has he moved back to the state?)  I'm not even sure there is someone in Nebraska who would run who I think would be a better Senator than Kerrey.  I'm saying that in any state if there is a primary and I agree with the insurgent a lot more than I agree with the establishment choice, I'm going to support the insurgent so that at least the voters are presented the argument and a meaningful choice.  Ideas matter and a debate is healthy, even if my preferred candidate doesn't always win. 

Voter Genome Project

[ Parent ]
That's fair... (0.00 / 0)
Reality takes over here, I think. Very few Nebraska Democrats dislike Kerrey. When I say "of any influence" I really mean any influence. My small corner of the state, anyone who posts at New Nebraska Network, the vast majority of the state central committee, Nebraska Young Democrats, etc. Kerrey is an old-school Nebraska Democrat. The longtime Nebraska Democrats love him, those of us who are too young to have voted for him still know about him. And Nebraskans really love the politicians who will just say exactly what's on their mind. Kerrey's great at doing just that.

There may be a quixotic challenge to Kerrey, but I highly doubt it will be anyone worthwhile.

Further Reading


[ Parent ]
Thanks (4.00 / 1)
As I said -- I don't have it in for Kerrey.  I met him back in the 1992 campaign and liked a lot of what he stood for back then.  I think he was the candidate who pulled Clinton towards saying more on the need for national health insurance, much as Tsongas pulled Clinton towards balancing the budget.

And I'd like to help if I can with the House races you mentioned.  Check out our site (link below) and please feel free to pass it along to any people you know on those campaigns if you think they could use our technology to help them understand their supporters and find more voters like them.

Voter Genome Project


[ Parent ]
What a great point (4.00 / 1)
"When's the last time Stoller or Bowers bashed a Republican with the same fire that they bash Democrats on a daily basis?"

I hadn't thought of it before, but of course the implication here is spot on.  Matt Stoller and Chris Bowers are Republicans.  The immense amount of work that they have done in the past few years building infrastructure, defining narratives, researching and raising money has all been to attack Democrats and benefit Republicans.  It has nothing at all to do with a commitment to principles that goes beyond blind partisan identification with the likes of Lieberman Kerrey and Wynn.

I mean, I can't think of a single reason, in a country where Democrats control both houses of the legislature, that a progressive blogger frustrated at the complete lack of action on the most important issues facing the country might direct criticism at Democrats.  Clearly, the problem lies only in the Republican party, there are no bad Democrats, and are only hope is to expose the likes of Chris Bowers and Matt Stoller to the public as the nefarious concern trolls that they so clearly are.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.


[ Parent ]
Well, thanks for the strawman argument... (4.00 / 1)
If their goal is to be a watchdog of the Democratic majority, that's fine. That's an admirable goal. But they seem to have forgotten an important detail: these states are not all the same. You may operate from a national narrative, but these races are won at a local level. If you nationalize a race in Nebraska? You are going to lose. If you pretend that the voters in Nebraska are the same as the voters in New York? You are going to lose.

Can you trust for a second that just maybe, we know what the hell we're doing over here? That differing opinions within a political party aren't a bad thing, and that maybe even those people we strongly disagree with on one issue will be strong allies on another? That someone can speak out against his party and still be a staunch defender of that party?

Surely you see the irony in bashing Democrats for bashing Democrats?

Further Reading


[ Parent ]
Best of Bob Kerrey (0.00 / 0)
CT edition:



Not Mututally Exclusive (0.00 / 0)
I don't think that the fact that a candidates is the "establishment" candidate makes it mutually exclusive that the candidate cannot be the progressive candidate, or the grass roots candidate, or the net roots candidate.
For example, in New Hampshire, Jeanne Shaheen has overwhelming support from all segments in the New Hampshire Democratic Party, as witnessed by her commanding poll numbers and the fact that nearly 1300 people signed a petition to ask her to run.  Hundreds of those signatures were on line.  In looking at an online poll on the progressive Bluehampshire site today, Governor Shaheen is winning.  If you looked at the comments on Daily Kos when she announced she was running, the reaction was overwhelmingly positive. It is a good thing when progressives like Jeanne Shaheen are elected to office; it doesn't mean that they can no longer be supported by the grass roots. 

Sometimes you may have a candidate who has that kind of support. Other times you may have primaries where the grass roots splits among different candidates. Sometimes one size fits all, sometimes it doesn't.


The whole "60 vote" argument (0.00 / 0)
is just bullshit and we need to call out Democratic leaders on it now.

http://www.democrats...


[ Parent ]
A "centrist" comeback in the making? (0.00 / 0)
Could Mark Warner and Bob Kerrey's impending senatorial candidacies be the sign of a "centrist" comeback strategy to prevent the progressive movement from taking over the Democratic Party via progressive '08 candidacies? To outmaneuver the Bush Dog Democratic campaign?

Or is this just what we have to expect as the country transitions to a Democratic majority from a Republican-controlled single-party state, via "electable" Democrats in formerly "red" electoral districts?


Or maybe... (0.00 / 0)
Or maybe the Democratic Party is a bigger tent party that doesn't expect its candidates and its voters to march in lockstep.  Maybe it won in 2006 because it was willing to listen to different voices, rather than have any one monolithic group - whether it be "establishment insiders" or "progressive" bloggers - dictate what it means to be a Democrat?  I hope the Democratic Party never turns into a place where debate is stifled, no matter which wing is doing the stifling.

[ Parent ]
Holla (0.00 / 0)
I know I'm late to the party, but it's pretty clear that the initial role-difference you're highlighting is the main thing. Johnathan and Fred are angling for their next job and/or have embraced the tribal mindset of professional campaign consultants. They love that shit, and hopefully they're good at it and more power to them. It just means that you're going to be at odds w/them if you consistantly push for something beyond Democratic victory.

Me | My Work | Future Majority

Holla (0.00 / 0)
I know I'm late to the party, but it's pretty clear that the initial role-difference you're highlighting is the main thing. Johnathan and Fred are angling for their next job and/or have embraced the tribal mindset of professional campaign consultants. They love that shit, and hopefully they're good at it and more power to them. It just means that you're going to be at odds w/them if you consistantly push for something beyond Democratic victory.

Me | My Work | Future Majority






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