So-called "Moderates" Have Become The Problem

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 12:34


We have spent so long living under a government that was dominated by the right-wing of the Republican Party, that we are still having a difficult time coping with the new political reality. The right-wing is no longer the problem. The so-called "moderates" in Congress are.

From watering down the size of the stimulus, to weakening the climate change bill, to seriously threatening the public option, to blocking EFCA, cramdown and full voting rights for D.C., moderates have consistently blocked the truly transformative aspects of the Democratic agenda. Despite this, the full force of progressive media attacks remain focused on the right-wing, rather than upon these so-called moderates.

A perfect case in point comes from the climate change bill that passed the House on Friday. The bill had been consistently weakened from its original form. By his own admission, President Obama had originally wanted a 100% auction on the emission allowances, instead of 85% give-aways to polluting industries. Further, the renewable energy standards also plunged, and now barely surpass the business as usual projections.

However, none of these concessions were made to appease right-wing global warming deniers, all of whom still voted against the bill. Instead, the concessions were made for "moderates" in both parties, not a single one of whom would publicly deny the human role in climate change. While they claim to believe in the dangers of climate change, what they all really believed in were huge giveaways to corporate interests within their districts. As Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill reminded us over Twitter immediately following the House passage of the climate change bill, giveaways such are these are what is really means to be moderate these days:

I hope we can fix cap and trade so it doesn't unfairly punish businesses and families in coal dependant states like Missouri.

By which McCaskill actually means that she doesn't want the bill to do anything to Peabody Energy, the largest corporate user of coal in the world, which happens to be headquartered in Missouri. Clearly, she plans to engage in the same weakening tactics on the bill at which "moderates" in the House proved so adept.

These so-called moderates are the real barrier to the progressive change that the country needs right now. As such, we should be directing our fire at them, rather that at the right-wing. Currently, the right-wing has no power whatsoever unless the moderates in Congress choose to side with them. And yet, it is the right-wing that progressive media keep aiming most of their attacks. Fore example, consider Paul Krugman's column today on the passage of the climate change bill. In harsh language, he characterizes the main opposition to the bill as climate change deniers (more in the extended entry):

Chris Bowers :: So-called "Moderates" Have Become The Problem
So the House passed the Waxman-Markey climate-change bill. In political terms, it was a remarkable achievement.

But 212 representatives voted no. A handful of these no votes came from representatives who considered the bill too weak, but most rejected the bill because they rejected the whole notion that we have to do something about greenhouse gases.

And as I watched the deniers make their arguments, I couldn't help thinking that I was watching a form of treason - treason against the planet.

To fully appreciate the irresponsibility and immorality of climate-change denial, you need to know about the grim turn taken by the latest climate research.

The climate change deniers that Krugman discusses in harsh terms are not the ones who weakened Waxman-Markey. Rather, the bill was the "responsible" moderates--none of whom would ever claim to deny the human impact on climate change--that threatened to throw their weight with the deniers unless they received massive, in-district corporate giveaways. They were the ones that gave power to the deniers, and even used the deniers in order to weaken the bill.

Until the Obama administration and the Democratic congressional leadership deliver on big change--a public option, and actually passing a good piece of climate change legislation into law--we in progressive media need to stop directing a disproportionate amount of our attacks on right-wing Republicans and other wackjob conservative movement types. By engaging in those attacks, and keeping right-win insanity in the national public discourse on a regular basis, we are doing a huge favor to the Obama administration and the Democratic leadership. We are, to put it in common  political language, giving away the carrot before  using the stick. Instead, we need to hold that carrot--keeping right-wing insanity front and center in national media--out of the grasp of the party leadership for the time being, making it clear that they only get that benefit after they deliver real results.

Wingnuttery is a tempting and easy target. Further, after eight eyars of the bush administration, attacking it has also grown into a real habit for progressives. However, after the electoral successes of 2008, the political reality has changed, and we need to change with it. Now, we have to direct our ire at the so-called moderates impeding real change, until such point as the congressional leadership and Obama administration have delivered more of what they promised during those long years when we all worked our asses off to get them elected.


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Great post... (4.00 / 9)
...but actually, I think moderates have always kinda been the problem, e.g., the DLC, Bill Clinton, Al Gore (circa 1999) and John Kerry.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

How are these right-wingers moderate? (4.00 / 6)
I keep reading about "centrists" and "moderates," but no one seems capable or inclined to describe what these people actually stand for.  Krugman touched upon the truth of these alleged "moderates" and their actual political ideology when he wrote, "if the center means the position held by most Americans, the self-proclaimed centrists are in fact way out in right field."

But hasn't that been the case since at least 1980, when Reagan ran on a campaign of hate and won by playing on the fears of closet right-wingers in the Democratic Party?  I'm inclined to believe it goes back even further.  There's no such thing as a political moderate.  Until we acknowledge this fact, that is, until we can properly define our political enemies, we cannot form an effective method of defeating them.



[ Parent ]
They *are* in the center (4.00 / 2)
Of course, they're only in the center if you define "center" to be the median position of Senators.  It just so happens that that's far to the right of the opinion of mainstream America.

John McCain <3 lobbyists

[ Parent ]
This is how the Democratic party eats its own. (4.00 / 1)
I come here by way of the Motley Moose to see how the "Democratic party base" self-immolates.

These so-called moderates are the real barrier to the progressive change that the country needs right now. As such, we should be directing our fire at them, rather that at the right-wing.

Being a "squishy centrist" I have resumed my normal mode of listening to all 'sides' (not that I ever really stopped, but it's hard to listen to a 'side' when you are actively competing against it).  I am starting to recognize the first (for me) few bits of sane observation coming from the Right since the last election, and while few and far between it is a sign that that portion of the political spectrum is beginning to stabilize.

Simultaneously, I am hearing more and louder voices on the Left saying that they really don't need that bothersome middle, anyway.  That if there could only be a Pure Liberal (I debate the leftish definition of "Progressive") Democratic Party then all would be sunshine and roses.  Further, that the best way to achieve this is to "direct our fire at (centrists)" - to attack me, as it were - and everyone else like me who is not capable of passing the purity test of simply agreeing with  whatever the liberal party line is.

Can anyone say "the shortest majority of any party in history"?  

Just yesterday I'm called to task for not toeing the party line (in this case: that people are greedy scum) in a facebook thread:

These findings don't surprise me at all. The essentials of human nature never change, and believing that people, who are of their very nature, worshippers of money and power, would willingly share it was pure fantasy. It always has been.

Mr. or Ms. Blask, occupying the middle an easy place to be. Poking fun at people of strong conviction on either side of the debate is safe but it rarely helps or changes things.

Mr. XYZ, I so energetically disagree. On all counts: with the cynically hopeless view towards human nature; with the safety of the "middle" and the ease of occupying it; and that there is any necessity for occupying a 'wing' to help or change things.

I welcome you to debate these things (and all things) on http://motleymoose.com , where you will find me nearly always doing (or not doing, as you please) what I can.

I do not hesitate to remind anyone that the one (single, only, sole) reason that there is a Democratic majority in Congress, the House and the White House is that "squishy centrists" voted Democratic en masse.  I further have no compunction whatsoever in stating that if the efforts at "directing fire at them" are successful then Democrats better pass everything they want PDQ because their ability to do so is going to evaporate like breath-fog on a black car in the Arizona sun.

I will repost the comment from my local "Beck 9/12" action group list, for comparison:

OK, I just got an indication from Vern about 20 minutes ago as to how he would vote on Waxman-Markey.  Many factors come in to play, and he is leaning strongly against it, but new developments are in play as we spoke.
The offset oversight authority was just yanked from EPA and given to the Dept of Ag.  An interesting side note is that FPL already has the infrastructure in place that would prevent a big energy cost increase in District 13, and might even demand some offset payments to the positive side.  Vern is a fellow conservationist and is strongly concerned about the environment, but not Al Gore blind.  His charge is to serve his district along with the nation as a whole.  I think it is most wise to wait until the last info is in to make a final decision on something as vital as HR2454.

When "Glenn Beck 9/12" members have more moderate things to say about Cap & Trade than liberal Mooses it may be time for the Democratic faithful to pause and consider.  

"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for.  Sail out to sea and do new things." - Admirla Grace Hopper, Computer Pioneer


[ Parent ]
Sorry, oopsed the blockquotes on that comment... (0.00 / 0)
The correct version is on the moose link provided.

"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for.  Sail out to sea and do new things." - Admirla Grace Hopper, Computer Pioneer

[ Parent ]
We have a battle on two fronts. (4.00 / 4)
While I do think Krugman is right to point out the danger being posed by climate change denial, you're definitely right that we also have a problem with these "moderates" who will only back a climate bill if it's defanged to the point of uselessness. Not only should we correct the lies being spread by the radical right, but we must also fight the efforts of "The Mod Squad" and their corporate benefactors to "greenwash" a do-nothing bill as "major progress".

Btw, I also wrote a diary on this:

http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.


Moderates (4.00 / 5)
I agree with the post, but we really need to get a better word than "moderates."  So long as those blocking change are called that, the public will side with them.  After all, if you are not a "moderate," you must be an "extremist."

This all reminds me of a stanza from an old Phil Ochs song about the battle over civil rights:

Some say they're past their darkest hour
Those moderates are back in power
They'll listen close with open ears
And help us out in a couple of hundred years
But don't push them--whatever you do
Or else you'll get those extremists back in


moderates (4.00 / 9)
I am beginning to think of them as Katrinacrats, because their agenda is to leave poor people for dead.

[ Parent ]
Conservadems (4.00 / 6)
is more accurate.

Corporate whores also works.  


[ Parent ]
I Go With Conservadems (4.00 / 8)
No need to go slandering honest, hard-working whores.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
LOL! (4.00 / 2)
Good point.  Whores do work for a living.  :-)

[ Parent ]
i know it's all ijn good fun (4.00 / 4)
but some of us actually do know some sex workers and/or people who have done sex work.  a little courtesy please ;)

[ Parent ]
When I Was A Teenage Hitch-Hicking Hippie (4.00 / 3)
I met a number of prostitutes in diners and such.  They were, as a group, the least pretentious people I met.  Fellow outsiders, I guess.  

I'm dead serious about not slandering them.  Though I don't mind poking fun at conservadems in the process.



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I prefer the term "Centrist"... (0.00 / 0)
Although to be honest, they're more center-right than center. Ultimately, whatever we call them, they're bought and paid for by the corporate elite and they always demand their pound of flesh, that they can then offer to their corporate benefactors, in order to allow any legislation through.

Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.

[ Parent ]
I prefer the term "Centrist"... (0.00 / 0)
Although to be honest, they're more center-right than center. Ultimately, whatever we call them, they're bought and paid for by the corporate elite and they always demand their pound of flesh, that they can then offer to their corporate benefactors, in order to allow any legislation through.

Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.

[ Parent ]
doesn't work (4.00 / 2)
We bring our kids up with the Goldilocks story.  Not too hot, not too cold, just right.  Not too hard, not too soft, just right.  Not too left, not to right, just right.  If we let these corporate sellouts call themselves "centrists", we lose.

If we use the word "centrist", it should always refer to the median position of the American people on an issue, not to a position halfway between Senate Republicans and Senate Democrats.  To say otherwise leads to absurdities, like calling a position that is to the right of the bulk of the public "liberal".

So, for example, when 60-75 percent of the public support a public option, it's the centrist position.



[ Parent ]
They are both two sides of the same problem (4.00 / 5)
I understand your frustration with so called moderates. They as committee chairs wield much more power than do the Republicans. But without the wing nuts the moderates would have very little power and vice versa. Therefore I believe we need to spend are energies attacking both camps and pointing out as often as possible that they are working towards the same ends.

Nothing would tar the "moderates" more than being associated with the discredited Republican party and the Neoconservatives. But, in fact, the "moderates" appear to be completely captured by right wing narratives and belief systems. Attack the narratives and link the narrative to the actions of the "moderates", wing nuts, and neoconservatives.

The "moderates" are certainly worthy of scorn and should not get one bit of support from the progressive blogosphere. However, if the strong hold that the Conservatives hold over the Republican party is weakened and hopefully broken, a split vote amongst Republicans becomes possible and a split Republican vote will weaken the power of moderate Democrats.

Climate change should not be a partisan issue. If temperatures rise any where near as much as the current theories suggest it will be a disaster for everybody regardless of party, country of origin, or wealth. The fact that our politicians can not rise above the cesspool and deal with this issue demonstrates how deeply corrupt our system is.    


Non-denial denial (4.00 / 6)
An old movie, I think it was "All the President's Men", used the phrase nondenial denial (a denial that was not a straight out denial meant the article was true).  We have non-Democratic Democrats and nonmoderate moderates.

What is the difference between Max Baucus and Olympia Snowe?  Baucus chairs a committe.  What is the difference between Ben Nelson and Susan Collins?  Collins wears ugly glasses and a dress.

We see the same 35 names every time with another 20 or so subject to constant buyouts.  It is time to do something because those 35 (or is it 50) weaken the country as well as weakening the message and abilities of the Democratic party.  If some people think we stand for nothing, these "moderate" clowns are a major reason.


Are You Sure (4.00 / 7)
Ben Nelson doesn't also wear ugly glasses and a dress?

Have you seen him in private on the Appalachian Trail?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Time to break out the Potshards (4.00 / 2)
Let us face it, the democrats have gotten used to ignoring the left because there were no consequences. Where else were we going to go after all. In general I would have to agree with that assessment. There really is not anywhere else to go and there wont be in the foreseeable future. Fine, we are where we  are and we can work with that.

Politicians at least understand raw power. Believe it or not we have that. The problem is it is diffuse. We spread our efforts across a broad front. That is fine, but we need to on occasion focus down to a specific target. What is more we should not be afraid of a tactical loss if we hope to make strategic gains. My top candidate for ostracism right now would be Ben Nelson. I'm sure others have different candidates but that is where I would cast my shard.

That is the Idea. We as a collective mind cast our shards and the work to implement. What effect would an active search for a primary opponent do four years away. Well look at what Arlen has done. What we shouldn't do is take it to the extreme and go after everyone who steps just a bit out of line. One or two a cycle is more then enough.


Lawrence O'Donnell, horse's mouth... (4.00 / 8)
Lawrence O'Donnell talking about his days as a Democratic Party operative (going back to at least 1988):

   "If you want to pull the party-the major party that is closest to the way you're thinking-to what you're thinking, YOU MUST, YOU MUST show them that you're capable of not voting for them.  If you don't show them you're capable of not voting for them, they don't...have...to listen to you.  I promise you that.  I worked within the Democratic Party.  I didn't listen, or have to listen, to anything on the left while I was working in the Democratic Party, because the left had nowhere to go."


To put it another way (0.00 / 0)
There's a need to pursue a policy of mutually assured destruction.  The left has to show an absolute willingness to pave the way for things like an entrenched conservative activist majority on the Supreme Court out of a fit of pique.  The problem that the left has is an unwillingness to cause collateral damage while throwing its weight around.  

I know I'm probably sounding like I'm advocating that progressives need to act like monster and there's probably some truth to that.  If the Blue Dogs want to weaken environmental legislation, then I think that progressives should adopt a tit-for-tat strategy and do things like hold up relief legislation the next time weather causes drought or floods or other problems in the rural areas that Blue Dogs often represent, hitting them in their constituencies.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
Isn't there some way to do this without hurting the public? (4.00 / 1)
I'm loathe to play games with people's lives.  I have no problem, however, with seeing as many right-wing Democrats lose elections as it take for the party to finally purge itself of them and cater once more to the public at large.



[ Parent ]
I'm not sure if there (0.00 / 0)
I'm exaggerating somewhat with the example I give, but you do have to cause some pain to force action, or at least present a credible threat to do so.

Consider the use of economic sanctions in international diplomacy as a form of pressuring foreign governments.  You may not be dropping bombs on people, but such measures still cause pain.  The logic of sanctions is that the pain is enough to pressure governments to act.

Or consider the idea of taking a hard line on a public option for health care.  Let's say that there exist health care improvements short of a public option that will still save some lives in the short term as compared to the status quo.  Drawing a line in the sand means being willing to risk throwing those lives away in the gamble that progressives can get more.  I happen support holding firmly for the public option, but I am under no illusions that doing so will probably result in some people having worse outcomes (i.e. death) than they would if the left were willing to compromise more.  

You must realize that as long as politics can control life-or-death outcomes, politics is fundamentally a game with people's lives, a high-stakes game but a game nonetheless.  It would be a mistake to play this game too often with a risk-averse strategy that will abandon any hope of a complete win in favor of guaranteeing a partial victory.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
The thing is this: (4.00 / 1)
The politicians we seek to remove simply don't care about their constituents, who are simply a means to an end.  In order to hurt them, you have to go after them directly.  This means primary challenges from the left and left-wing independent candidacies.  It also involves making sure the recalcitrant Democrats don't fins cushy jobs in the private sector to bide their time until they can worm their way back into political power.



[ Parent ]
I think you're wrong there (0.00 / 0)
I think these politicians actually do care for their constituents.  Don't fall into the trap of thinking that if they really cared, then they would do X, Y, and Z.  People can reach different conclusions based on the same data without being malicious about it.

In order to hurt politicians, you have to challenge their electoral chances.  That means turning the people against them by causing pain that is held against the politician.


Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
If they cared, they wouldn't constantly act against their own constituents. (4.00 / 1)
Seriously, these animals care about only one thing: appeasing power, and then only so they can survive politically or increase their own positions.



[ Parent ]
it all depends on who they view as constituents (4.00 / 2)
I think successful politicians--where you define success as getting re-elected and being popular in your district (a much different definition than being a successful legislator or executive)--are finely honed at seeing who the most powerful constituents are and caring very much about them.

Unfortunately, those constituents are usually not voters. They are typically the largest corporate employers in their district or other entities that only indirectly (if at all) represent the interests of the residents of their district.

They call me Clem, Clem Guttata. Come visit wild, wonderful West Virginia Blue


[ Parent ]
If they don't represent their districts at least somewhat (4.00 / 1)
Then I have to conclude that the voters in those districts are a bunch of idiots who are so out of touch with reality that the very notion of democracy must be questioned, since it relies on voters being at least somewhat rational.

Instead, I would rather suggest that politicians do usually care somewhat for the people of their district, but that they are bad at understanding the interests of those people, especially when what voters say they want sometimes doesn't match what they really need.

These moderate and conservative Democrats enjoy the sincere support of some Democratic voters in their districts and have earned that support honestly.  I think it's a mistake to focus on politicians and corporations to the point of not realizing that part of the problem is some of the voters themselves.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
The voters aren't out of touch. (0.00 / 0)
Although every district has its share of crazy, dishonest, out-of-touch buffoons, generally speaking, most people vote the way they do because they're lied to.  The system itself is set up so as to deny voters options.  Under this system, how can people be expected to generally make good decisions about who represents them?



[ Parent ]
the path to a republican majority (4.00 / 2)
Mr. O'Donnell's thinking led to a republican majority. Because the left can just stay home on election day. We did that for years. The Democrats did not make the connection that they were losing because the left had abandoned them, instead they responded by moving more to the right.

Only the absolute failure of conservative governance, or lack of governance, convinced the left to rejoin the fray.
Now, the notice us enough to realize that they have to talk like the left but, since they are mostly corporate hacks they are only capable of governing from the right.

Somehow we have to change that.

 


[ Parent ]
The Problem with Lawrence O'Donnell's (4.00 / 1)
analysis is that it is passive. At the time the Left was voting with its feet the Right was actively engaged in moving their side. That led to the general perception of only choice for change to the right.  

[ Parent ]
Then the dems are hopelessly in a right spiral (4.00 / 2)
and it is time for a left party.

[ Parent ]
We have a Republican Majority (4.00 / 2)
All you have to do is listen to Conrad or Baucus tell you that the only healthcare bill they can support is one that the Republicans want.  Can you imagine Republicans telling their base something like that?  I'm sorry wingnuts, we can't go to war in Iraq because Ted Kennedy and Dennis Kucinich won't let us.  

 


[ Parent ]
Staying home isn't the alternative. (4.00 / 1)
Voting for someone other than a Democrat or a Republican, however, is.  Just look at how Perot helped drive the Republicans to run toward their corporate base, as well as the religious crazies.  They didn't make the mistake of forsaking the base after 1996.



[ Parent ]
I'm Not Sure They Really Believe In Anything, Actually (4.00 / 5)
While they claim to believe in the dangers of climate change, what they all really believed in were huge giveaways to corporate interests within their districts.

That's the effect, of course.  Absolutely no doubt about that.  But to say they believe in it may be stretching things a bit.  I mean, does a stone believe in rolling downhill? Does water?

The big question here may actually be this: Puppets or parrots?  Which are they, really?

If puppets, hand-puppets, or marionettes?

If parrots, you've to 372 species in 86 genera to choose between, so good luck with that.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Yes, they believe... (0.00 / 0)
They believe in the corporate money that funds their campaign. And yes, they're puppets.

Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.

[ Parent ]
You're Assuming The Existence Of Sentience (4.00 / 3)
Where's the evidence?

Puppets, after all, aren't sentient.

Except, of course, for Buffy, The Vampire Slayer, Season 1, Episode 9

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Right! (0.00 / 0)
Though, of course, those were really demons, plus Angel, of course.

But, still, puppet demons.  So your point is well taken.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I think they do believe in the dangers of climate change (0.00 / 0)
They just think other things are more important.  (Not counting Collin Peterson, who has said that global warming could be beneficial to the farmers of his district by extending the growing season.  Maybe he wants more global warming.)  Global warming came in dead last among 20 issues that a January Pew poll asked respondents to rate as whether or not it is a top priorities.  

I tend to believe that Americans care about the environment (sort of), but most think that it should lose when it conflicts with the economy and jobs.  For example, in a recent poll, a majority supported cap-and-trade if it would reduce greenhouse gas emissions at the cost of $10/month more in electricity bills, but a majority opposed the idea if the cost rose to $25/month more.  They want cars that use gas to be built, but they don't want higher gas prices.

A plurality of people also seem to think that the effects of global warming tend to be exaggerated.  The mode seems to be that it is an important concern, but not a crisis.

I think that all of this makes it hard to assail moderates on environmental issues since they're not really that far from what voters believe.  Since this is an issue which a huge partisan gap between Democrats and Republicans with independents being closer to Republicans than Democrats (and it still ranked 16th out of 20 in importance to Democrats), it's not a good pressure point for assailing moderates who live in swing or even Republican-leaning districts and rely on some votes of non-Democrats to get elected.  

I have to conclude that these moderate and conservative Democrats who hamper environmental legislation are not necessarily going against voters in their districts by de-prioritizing climate change and that, quite possibly, some of these politicians come by their beliefs relatively honestly.



Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
No, they must not believe in it (4.00 / 1)
Otherwise, how could someone like Rep. Boucher cheer the fact that coal use will increase under the energy bill?  That's a recipe for disaster.  Only a denialist could think otherwise.

[ Parent ]
Creativity (4.00 / 2)
I actually kind-of agree with Claire McCaskill when she says:

I hope we can fix cap and trade so it doesn't unfairly punish businesses and families in coal dependant states like Missouri.

Do coal districts needs special attention?  Of course!  A good climate change bill really could hurt some districts.  The question is, how do you do this without weakening the point of the bill in the first place?  

The answer is to funnel more of the money raised from the auctions back into the districts most hit.  But how to do that effectively takes creativity.  Saving what exists is easy, but building something new is harder.

This is were Obama, liberal think tanks and even blogs like this should help.  Instead of simple condeming the "moderates", we should help them solve the real issues they raise more creatively.  (Well, ok, maybe not instead of critisizing them, but at least in addition to critisizing them.)  

So here is my first pass on how the bill could be improved to help coal country without weakening the bill.  The easy part is the bill in its full form raises a lot of money, so:

* Extend unemployment benifits for coal workers to last a full lifetime.

* Make seed money for alternative fuel companies (more) available in coal country.

* Fully fund education in coal districts federally.  Use these districts to experment with better education models.  (This may be pushing it, but something like this might be a good idea.)

What else?  Surely some think tank must of thought of this already, what do they suggest?


this is true (0.00 / 0)
this discussion in the thread has largely been focused on attacking "moderates" as well as "wingnuts."  It reminds me of a paraphrasing of an old saying of hannah arendt's i think - that one can at most be two of the following three: decent; intelligent; reactionary.

The thing is though, you can't deal with the decent but stupid reactionaries (moderates) the same way you deal with the intelligent reactionaries (some wingnuts - though some of them are not so bright either).  You don't attack the character of people who will sway with the wind - you change the direction of the wind.  It's premature for that, I think - at least while still holding on to a democratic party mantle.  the truth is that many people argued that we needed a democratic majmority - well this is what "more democrats" means.  And it's good even thoug they're dipshits - you don't undo 30-40 years of insanity overnight!

But I don't think you can get to "better democrats" by attacking the big tent - i think you embrace it publicly, and privately take it over from within while working with people outside of it.  IF you're going to be a Democrat, then be a Democrat, while still being a progressive, and don't alienate the bulk of the party.  IF you're going to attack the centre of the Democratic party, then start more openly considering working outside of it publicly by supporting institutions that create accountability - commnunity organisations, third parties, etc.  

It's better strategy and its more honest to choose which side of the line you fall and working accordingly - while remembering that therer are progressives/radicals/etc of different hues on both side of the line between Democratic party worker and non Democratic Party worker (present or future).


[ Parent ]
But we have to draw some lines (0.00 / 0)
What is more we need to shout about it. If we allow ourselves to be ignored we deserve to be.

We are not talking about alienating the bulk of the party, we are talking about getting our representatives to represent the bulk of the party, indeed the bulk of the American public.

I have not heard anyone advocating some litmus test, or attacking "moderates". What I have heard is exactly what you want. Working within the party structure to offer alternatives in a primary. I have heard people talking about having our positions actively and loudly voiced.

I'm sorry what you seem to be advocating is a slow boat to oblivion, both our positions and for the party itself. It reminds where we put ourselves in the 80's.


[ Parent ]
And what is your solution, then? (0.00 / 0)
Electing more Democrats hasn't gotten us the results we need.  It is a losing battle, at this point, to think we can change the party from within.



[ Parent ]
The fight never ends (0.00 / 0)
Just because we haven't gotten all the results we expected is not a reason to abandon the ground we have gained.

What I suggest is what we have been doing plus.
We need to continue to run campaigns in as many republican districts as possible. We need to continue to support the more progressive candidates in deep blue district/states primaries.

And we need to pick a handful of democrats in red district/states were we can seek or develop and then support primary challengers.  


[ Parent ]
We haven't gotten any results at all. That's the point. (4.00 / 1)
It's one thing to say not to give up on the Democrats if we've gotten some tangible results from the current method.  It's quite another, after years of trying and getting absolutely nothing from all our efforts to reshape the party, to urge people to keep up the fight and discourage them from leaving for greener pastures (no pun intended).  Look at how the Reform Party helped to reshape the GOP.  Having lost two consecutive presidential elections thanks to Perot (the last actual spoiler candidate in a presidential election), the Republican Party leadership learned fairly quickly that it could ill afford to take its base for granted.



[ Parent ]
"Working within the party structure to offer alternatives in a primary. " (0.00 / 0)
This is not exactly what I said - or at least what I meant.  I was suffering from too much hot weather to write clearly.  What I would suggest is a three-pronged approach for the short term within the context of spending MUCH more energy doing long term social movement building through support for institutions like unions, community groups, and in some cases individuals:

1) Working with the Democratic party to offer alternatives in the primary;
2) Promoting third party building, particularly at a local level right now but also at a state and national level if it makes sense in context;
3) That the people who are doing 1 and 2 see each other as allies and not as enemies, and understand that it is 'moderate' (read: Conservative) Democrats and most Republicans and generally speaking the rightwing that is the problem and their enables that are also a problem.  

It's an inside-outside game that I'm proposing which has links across the line that separates 'Democratic Party' from 'Not Democratic Party' - and of course this will involve some amount of conflict, as you can see from the quick hit that was recently posted that rehashed that 'Nader is bad' 'No, the corporate Democrats are bad' argument.  Ultimately, you have to work with balancing principle and pragmatism on a constant basis and be selective - in some cases it will make sense to support a primary of a democratic politician, in some cases it will make sense to support a third party candidate, in some cases it will even make sense to support a 'moderate' Democrat like Obama against a rightwing nutcase if the likelihoodi s that the rightwing nutcase might win.

What I am proposing is building, slowly, steadily, quickly, rapidly, but above all strategically and coordinatedly while STILL understanding that no all progressives / radicals are coming from the same places on all issues and need to negotiate differences within the movement as well.

It's a lot of work :)  So shouting in public company has to be tactical, not solely for hte purpose of emotional expression (Which is also important - sometimes more!)

Best,
Dr A


[ Parent ]
frustration... (4.00 / 5)
I'm incredibly frustrated with my (mostly Democratic) Congressional delegation. Yes, I know, it's a coal-captive state, so what could I expect? Well, I was hoping for some political leadership. Instead we got this statement from Sen. Byrd today as he says he opposes ACES in its current form:

I continue to believe that clean coal can be a "green" energy.

Those of us who understand coal's great potential in our quest for energy independence must continue to work diligently in shaping a climate bill that will ensure access to affordable energy for West Virginians.

As I commented in that post...

Sen. Byrd is doing West Virginians and the rest of the occupants of this planet a great disservice when he frames climate change legislation as solely being concerned with "energy independence" and "affordable energy."

Really, coal has nothing to do with either.

We can only truly have energy independence with renewable sources of energy--the remaining coal reserves in W.Va. can be counted in fewer decades than Sen. Byrd has served in Congress to date.

Furthermore, as the studies recently highlighted on this website show, we can only say coal provides 'affordable energy' today if we fail to count the full costs of cheap coal.

I can see where Sens. Byrd and Rockefeller might see a bill like this as an opportunity to fill up the West Virginia coffers with as much compensation as possible for the significant impacts. The transition away from coal is going to be a huge challenge for W.Va.

It's quite another thing, though, to not admit that coal is part of a problem needing to be solved. I fear this will only lead to the citizens of Appalachia continuing to starve while King Coal feasts.

They call me Clem, Clem Guttata. Come visit wild, wonderful West Virginia Blue


Transition (4.00 / 2)
The transition away from coal is going to be a huge challenge for W.Va.

Exactly!  It really will be a huge challenge.  It is stupid to ignore that reality.

But now is the time we have to make that transition.  A true cap-n-trade bill can generate huge amounts of money to finance that transition.  West Virginia will have to do that eventually, why not take advantage of the opportunity now?  That needs to be the line of attack.


[ Parent ]
That's my line of attack... (0.00 / 0)
That you, Mark.

That's my line of attack (see this diary for example). Unfortunately, I see no signs yet that anyone in our Congressional delegation or statehouse is listening.

There is no room in the King Coal hegemony to admit that King Coal will one day die. (King Coal is immortal!)

They call me Clem, Clem Guttata. Come visit wild, wonderful West Virginia Blue


[ Parent ]
howard dean woke me up to this in 2003. (4.00 / 1)
I had spent the 15 years since Duk-Crap-kis loss kind of focused on changing careers a few times, staying employed, getting employed, getting educational credentials, going in debt, getting outta debt ...

the kind of stuff that happens when mummy is NOT paying all the bills so you can spend a decade or 2 in grad school coffee houses reading 'what color is your parachute'.

in '03 I was back in school doing a career transition, and, given that I thought nixon was a fascist in 1972, I sure as hell ENJOYED howard's fighting.

the fascists really are NOT the problem.  while they constantly catch me off guard, cuz i could NEVER fathom stealing and lying like they do. However, from 50,000 feet, everything they do makes perfect sense. they want us all as serfs, doormats, footpads, foot soldiers, ass wipes and ass kissers. DUH.

the pathetic sacks of shit who are supposedly on our side who keep selling us out, OR, getting punked by school yard bullies like rove, atewater and ailes ... THEY are the problem.

aristocrats have been around since, at least, agricultural surplus has allowed an elite class of parasites to be parasites - their current flavor of fascism will be replaced by who knows what in future centuries and millenia, but, it will still be aristocrats being aristocrats.

we REALLY gotta kick the worhtless fucks who claim to be on our side.

rmm.  

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way


Although I agree with the others above about "moderate" & "centrist"" (4.00 / 1)
as terms that do not work, (and I have sympathy for sex workers), I think that the term "corporate owned whores" is the best fit. It ties them to corporate ownership, (just like the Repuglicans), and it shows they are willing to sell out "we the people" for money. (although I do agree that whores earn a much more honest living than these people do).

As long as the Democratic Party can count on us to continue to support them with our votes, our country is screwed.

Maybe part of the answer is make the tag "Democrat" stand for certain core principles, and we should focus on defining those principles, then forcing the Democratic candidates to sign on, or no support in dollars or votes. Make their voting records part of the process.

ONLY vote and give money to those who support "we the people".


On health care, progressives ARE "moderates" (4.00 / 3)
Here:

But Obama began with less than what we need, and he has not painted this as a battle of the people against the interests. The bill gets weaker with each succeeding round .... It is high time for progressives to stop settling for badly flawed second bests and to throw their energy into a first best that could rally popular support and produce a system that serves everyone.

Indeed. Whipping for single payer to be CBO scored would be a great place for progressives to start. That puts single payer in the debate, and the scoring can be done on the basis of legislation that has already been proposed.

In a sane universe, single payer would be the centrist option, and a national heath service the left option. As it is, and with "progressives" willingly helping, the weak tea of publc option is at the extreme left of permitted discourse.

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


A Moderate Is... (4.00 / 2)
A Moderate is someone who does whatever the Republicans/corporatists want him/her to do, but doesn't believe it's God's will.

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