Sotomayor In LookingGlassLand

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Jul 19, 2009 at 17:00


In case you hadn't noticed, the Sotomayor hearings were broadcast this last week from somewhere in LookingGlassLand-a place where an all-white committee of Senators questioned a Latina nominee for hours on end, and the all-white-male Republican contingent spent the largest chunk of its time cross-questioning her on whether she was a racist, and if not, how could she prove it to them?

Of course there were problems with this approach.  Such as the complete lack of judicial record supporting their accusations.  And that's precisely what gave the proceedings their utterly surreal character, leaving us only to wonder if it was more Lewis Carroll or George Orwell.  If MSNBC were half as savvy as they think they are, this is the question they'd be asking folks to call in and vote on.  But, of course, they've got Pat Buchanan doing commentary for them.  So what are the chances of that?

Yes, everyone with half a brain or more knows that it's utterly surreal.  But what's lacking, generally is the vocabulary to say anything more precise than that.  And that's symptomatic of a very big problem indeed.  In fact, at bottom it's the same problem we saw in Sotomayor herself, as she repeatedly told the world that she had no judicial philosophy. (In fact, philosophy gave her hives, and might possibly even send her into anaphylactic shock!) No philosophy for her, nohow.

Pardon me for not believing a word of it, even if Sotomayor herself actually did.

What's the connection here?  Simple:  At its most basic, ideology means nothing more than how you slice up the world-or at least the human part of it.  Who are the players?  And what are their relationships? Kings over subjects-with virtually nothing owed by Kings, except to God?  Lords over vassals-with a system of mutual, though vastly unequal obligations? Slaveowners and slaves-with slavowners alone defining the limits of absolute power over those who have none? Or citizens with constitutionally-recognized rights and equal protection for all?  These are the big-picture examples of how political ideology is political ontology (the branch of philosophy dealing with questions of existence). And it's quite literally impossible to function without one, conscious or not, whether you know it or not.

The right has a very well-developed multi-billion dollar machine in place to constantly articulate its ideology, and apply it to any situations that happen to emerge.  The fact that its ideology is almost always contradictory and incoherent is entirely irrelevant.  They're busy cranking it out at mass industrial production levels, and if you're busy pointing out contradictions at cottage industry levels, then you're not cranking out your own ideology, and you're definitely not doing it at mass industrial levels.  (Or, to put it another way, for the past 40 years, the right has been involved in a Gramscian culture war/war of position, and the left has been AWOL.)

Actually, the Democratic establishment has come up with it's own ideology-the "we don't have an ideology" ideology.  Which leaves the rest of us tearing our hair out, screaming "Why the hell not?" Because not having an ideology of your own essentially means accepting the other guys ideology, their way of cutting up the world, and then trying to get your goals achieved playing their game by their rules with their set of cards-which, of course, they have diligently marked back during the Nixon Administration.  In fact, it doesn't matter if you're playing 11-dimensional chess.  If you let the other guy define everything, the game is hari-kari (see, "Lather," Jefferson Airplane),

Paul Rosenberg :: Sotomayor In LookingGlassLand
Reference Points-Or Grids, If You Will

To understand what's going on here, I'd like to refer to two relatively recent diaries, "Misreading History While Trying To Make It--Achievement Narratives And Obama's Limitations" and "John Legend's Commencement Speech At UPenn Highlights Core Of College Learning"

I reference the first for the light it throws on the divide between the third and fourth levels of consciousness in Keegan's schema of cognitive development.  In Kegan's schema, each level is related to the one before by a shift in a consciousness-what was the background/context/subject of consciousness at one level becomes the foreground, content/object of consciousness at the next level.  In short, what is taken for granted, and largely unrecognized become subject to inspection, questioning and revision.  More specifically, at level three, the self is constructed out of the social roles and relationships of the surrounding society & culture, while at level four, the autonomous self becomes capable of reflecting on, questioning, and altering such roles and relationships, and thus becomes capable of self-authorship.  It is only at level four that one becomes truly conscious of the power relationships inherent in the social order that one takes for granted at Level 3.

The second diary references a different framework of cognitive development, which comes out of the Harvard Reading Program, and the work of William Perry.  Perry focused on a developmental process he came to understand out of years of working with undergraduates, who had to learn to read in different ways, for different purposes, in order to be effective students.  I've contacted the Perry Network, seeking to find out about any research connecting these two approaches, and to my knowledge no one has empirical research related the two frameworks.  

However, there appears to be a natural fit whereby the Perry's entire scheme fills out the gap between Kegan's Level 3 and Level 4. Students begin in Perry's scheme with the naïve belief that the world is a certain way, and their teachers are their to teach them about it.  This reflects the sort of cut-and-dried socially defined reality as understood by Level 3 consciousness.  At the end of Perry's scheme, students are prepared to take their place as members of a knowledge-seeking-and-constructing community.  They are capable of critical distance from what they observe, subjecting it different analytical frameworks, and then making decisions about which frameworks are more appropriate and why.  This is quite compatible with Kegan's Level 4 description of self-authorship and autonomy.

The Basic Argument

With these reference frames in place, the underlying argument is more easily made: What we're experiencing is a war between two perspectives, the conservative, hierarchy-defending perspective of Level 3, and the progressive, egalitarian perspective of Level 4.

Ironically, however, there's an inversion between the basic nature of these two perspectives and their political manifestations-one described at some length in my diary series The Political Duality of Rep and Dem:  It's the conservatives who are much more consciously aware of this war, and much more organized and dedicated to fighting it.  They are much more sensitive to context of political struggle, while progressives are much more content to simply want to live in the world that past progressive political struggles have fashioned out of a previously much more traditional and hierarchical past.   While progressives inherently desire social peace and tolerance, they have to recognize the continued necessity of struggle, and transcend their reluctance to engage in hegemonic struggle against conservatives.  Doing so involves overcoming a dualistic outlook that sees such struggle as diametrically opposed to their vision of social peace-and overcome such dualistic constructs is one of the hallmarks of Level 5 thinking.  At Level 5, such dualisms do not disappear, but rather are reconceptualized not as opposites at war with one another, but as polarities that mutually co-create one another.

What this means, in ordinary everyday terms is simply that we have to fight against conservative ideology as a destructive social force in order to preserve a beneficent social order in which individual conservatives, as well as liberals, can ultimately feel secure.

It's not that psycho extremists will ever feel secure, mind you.  It's that there will simply be far fewer of them, with virtually no significant political power, while the vast majority of self-identified conservatives will return to a focus on functioning as well as possible in islands of relative cultural stability within the wider ocean of continuing flux.  They will find peace in recognizing that although they can never freeze that ocean, they do not have to do so in order to be safe from being engulfed and drowned by it.

A bit more explanation before moving on: Ordinarily, conservatism is rooted in the preservation of the existing, Level 3 order of things.  However, conservatism is not simply that, as conservatism is also an anti-egalitarian ideology of privileged elites.  Since at least the advent of the Italian Renaissance, Europe has been subject to an onging, sometimes sporadic, but increasingly dynamic process of cultural change that has rendered the Level 3 order of things fluid and unstable, and has created conditions that increasingly demand Level 4 and even Level 5 consciousness, simply in order to successfully make sense of things.

One example of this was the emergence of religious tolerance as one the key principles of modern liberalism following the bloody wars of Reformation.  Previously, social stability and peace was assumed to depend on religious homogeneity in any social and political community.  Religious tolerance provided an alternative framework, which allowed for stability based on separate spheres between politics and religion.  Whatever was morally supported by all religious factions would unproblematically continue as the sort of common morality underlying the system of laws. Whatever was morally disputed would, as best as possible, be kept out of the political sphere, with provisions made to facilitate the continued private observation of such moral differences.

America was the first country founded explicitly on principles of political liberalism.  Instead of being justified on top-down theocratic grounds-as provided for by the theory of Divine Right of Kings-American government was justified in terms of the bottom-up Lockean Social Contract theory, a purely secular basis for government, that was perfectly compatible with the separation of church and state that was another key feature of Locke's political philosophy.  Because of this, along with (a) the virtual absence of true high-status conservative elites in America, especially after the Revolutionary War, and (b) the profound geographical differences between the relatively modest political and economic elites that did exist in early America, America largely lacked a cohesive national conservative tradition in the European sense.

Consequently, and rather ironically, when such a homegrown "tradition" finally did emerge, in the decades following the Civil War, it was articulated primarily in terms borrowed from so-called "classical liberalism", even as that tradition was being found inadequate in its British birthplace, where the New Liberals, reflecting on the horrors of Dickensian England, sought a broader re-formulation joining individual liberal and broad social welfare-a combination that would fully arrive in America three generations later with FDR's New Deal.

Meanwhile, Back At The Ranch...

So, what were we looking at with the Sotomayor hearings, anyway?  To answer that, we have think back back to Sotomayor's "wise Latina" remark, her statement about appeals courts "making policy" and the kind of discourse that these remarks were part of.  This takes us back to the John Legend diary.  Condensing Perry's 9-stage model of cognitive development observed among undergraduates, these are the highlights:

A. Dualism/Received Knowledge:
There are right/wrong answers, engraved on Golden Tablets in the
sky, known to Authorities.

B. Multiplicity/Subjective Knowledge:
There are conflicting answers; therefore, students must trust their "inner voices", not external Authority.

C. Relativism/Procedural Knowledge:
There are disciplinary reasoning methods:
   * Connected knowledge:  empathetic (why do you believe X?; what does this poem say to me?)
   * vs. Separated knowledge:  "objective analysis" (what techniques can I use to analyze this poem?)

D. Commitment/Constructed Knowledge:
Integration of knowledge learned from others with personal experience and reflection.

Regardless of whether Sotomayor ever heard of Perry or not, she surely knew of this developmental journey-which John Legend referred to in his speech-having taken it herself.  The language of John Roberts-judges as umpires calling "balls" and "strikes"-is the language of the incoming freshman, of "Dualism/Received Knowledge."  It is, in fact, a defendable (if not totally accurate) descriptive ideal for trial court judges.  But as anyone who continues their education should learn (if they're paying the least bit of attention), this is not how the world in general works, and it's certainly not how the growth of knowledge works  It is only at the beginning of this journey that objective truth seems so fixed, so clearly "out there" in the real world, and so clearly opposed to anything subjective.  Leaving this stage behind is the very essence of what a college education is all about.  And as the student very clearly understands at the end of the process, when they become part of  a disciplinary community, that black-and-white view of the world has to be discarded in order for a more mature, more realistic and more productive understanding to take its place.

Yes, to those who have not yet made the journey, it seems like this is "attacking" "objectivity", but actually it is only attacking a myth of objectivity, a myth that may have served a useful purpose at some point in time, but that no longer does so when it is time to embark on the journey that is a college education.

All this is the implicit backstory behind the related sorts of struggles to construct meaningful legal frameworks that judges, advocates and legal scholars all engage in.  Indeed, graduate level study has been shown to relate to the emergence of a greater number of people with Level 5 consciousness, an indication that there probably is yet another developmental framework like Perry's waiting to be discovered, mapping out the substages that people pass through beyond the point where Perry's schema ends.

To hold that people who finish this long and arduous process should continue to be judged according to the mistaken pre-conceptions of your typical incoming college freshmen is ludicrous in the extreme.  And yet that is precisely what the Republicans insisted on as the basic discursive pre-conditions and guiding assumptions for the Sotomayor hearings-and the Democrtats did absolutely nothing to challenge them on this fundamental presumption.  Heck, they didn't even realize its existence!

Even more remarkably, Sotomayor ended up agreeing with them!  When she herself said that she had used "bad" examples or expressions, because they could be misunderstood by others, she was implicitly saying that post-graduate discourse should be bound by the judgments of incoming freshman-or worse.  It was, quite frankly, a mind-numbingly stupid thing for her to say, and yet virtually no one seems to have noticed.  Why should they?  After all, such stupidity commonly goes under another name-it's called "conventional wisdom".

Like I said, brought to you from somewhere in LookingGlassLand.


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Relativism (4.00 / 2)
Paul,
My concern with this kind of schema is that it seems to deny the potential existence of absolute truths.  There are such things in this world, and a political system that can't accept that is bound for problems-- for example, the force of gravity acting on me will kill me if I step out of a 10 story window above a concrete street below.

Clearly there is a difficulty in knowing an absolute truth-- in some cases it may only be approachable asymptotically.  However there is an infinite difference between "all things are relative" and "knowing the truth is very difficult."


The Ontology Of Truth (4.00 / 2)
One way to think about it is "what does it mean for something to be true?"  At bottom, I think for most folks, the notion of absolute truth has religious derivations, whether they consciously know it or not.

But scientific truth is inherently falsifiable--ie, conceivably wrong.  (Unlike mathematics.  2+2=4 and all that.)

What does science have instead?  Well, one way to put is we have truths so well established that it would be wantonly perverse to ignore or act in defiance of them.  That is to say, we push back the definition onto human action. And this is what Jamesian pragmatism does, from a coherent philosophical perspective.  Which is just one of the reasons that I'm a Jamesian pragmatist.

Now, maybe that's not good enough for you.  But if not, can you please explain why not?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
;-) (0.00 / 0)
If saying you're a Jamesian pragmatist will keep you from being burned at the stake, I'm all for it, but some of us, reading you every weekend, fancy that we can see wheels within wheels. We're glad of it, too, after all the dreary idiocy inflicted on us during the week by the Emanuels, Beauregards, and other assorted fauna of a Washington gone completely and irretrievably 'round the bend. Very glad of it.

So despite our skepticism, you can trust us. We promise not to breathe a word of our suspicions to anyone.


[ Parent ]
I Have No Idea What You're Talking About William! (4.00 / 1)
My membership in the Bavarian Illuminati lapsed several centuries ago, and William James hadn't even been born yet.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Give an example of what you view as an absolute political, ideological or moral truth (0.00 / 0)
as it applies to the great issue debates of today.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
The dance (4.00 / 1)
Both Roberts and Sotomayor have something else down.  Each goes through an elaborate dance of saying what he/she knows the Senator wants even though neither believes it, is bound by it, or is likely to follow it.

In Roberts case, he neeeded to seem reasonable and seem to follow conventional wisdom while in fact being a defender of the corporate right wing.  In Sotomayor, she needs to seem hard right wing while actually being pretty run of the mill conventional mainstream.

No Robert Borks certainly and probably not even a Clarence Thomas who barely made it through.  Probably no William O. Douglas either.  Or Thurgood Marshall.

The pick of Federal Appeals Judges and only federal Appeals Judges instead of Governors, Atoorneys General or legal scholard with a mixing of judges is also lousy.  We get someone with a record but the record needs to be bland or at least needs to be portrayed as bland.

Al Franken could have made a fine book about the farce.  But unless we challenge the farce winning elections will mean a succession of decent middle of the roaders while losing elections will mean a succession of hard righties pretending moderation with each hearing playing to the Rush Limbaugh crew.  You could say something about this, Al, now that you are finally in the Senate.


While I generally agree with your conclusions (4.00 / 2)
I view this political theater for what it is more or less intended to be: reductio ad absurdum. What was once viewed as a necessary process of publicly vetting a person to be appointed to a lifelong position as one of the most powerful people in this nation has been reduced to meaninglessness. That's the whole point.

The reason for this is quite simple: to separate American citizens from their own government processes with these ridiculous side shows. It serves both parties equally, though for somewhat different reasons. Basically, neither party is in favor of an honest vetting process of much of anything or anyone. So they destroy it with juvenile Theater of The Absurd.

I think your take on the GOP side is spot on, for the most part. As for the Dem side, the ones who claim "we have no ideology," they are simply lying because they don't want Americans to know where they are coming from because they know Americans wouldn't like them anymore.

There is an interesting essay on this question you might find interesting--it's short. It's about Political Corruption as Duplicitous Exclusion. See here:

http://www.apsanet.org/imgtest...

Expanded upon, this also explains a lot of the behavior of the "mainstream" mediots.

PS: as an aside, I still can't get over the fact that Jeff "Grand Wizard of Bumfuck AL" Sessions was allowed by anyone in the Senate or the media to lecture ANYONE on racism without that being pointed out in a fine, and truly harsh fashion!

I just had to get that off my metaphorical chest.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


Actually (4.00 / 1)
There is no long-standing tradition of Senate confirmation hearings.  The hearing process is relatively recent, and had a very rapid decline from being briefly informative to its current kabuki-like state.

What I wanted to highlight here, however, is the extent to which this process needlessly promotes a sort of know-nothingism about the basic nature of knowledge itself.  This is anti-intellectualism on steroids.

As for Sessions, I wanted to do a separate diary about that yesterday, but I lost a diary just as I was about to save it, and that set me back an hour at the peak of my productivity.

Grrrr....

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Check out the essay anyway (4.00 / 1)
I'd be curious as to your thoughts on it, if it warrants a post. Or not.

You're right about the kabuki, of course. It was ever thus. But there was a time when at least some people thought it mattered a bit--the vetting process in general. As with many things American, that was probably a brief moment (like the middle class!).

We're back to the 1890s in more than a few ways.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


[ Parent ]
Well, My Underlying Point Is (4.00 / 2)
That the long period of Democratic dominance from 1932 to 1968 established a framework of political governance that people came to take for granted.  And the GOP has now spent 40 years destroying that.  It did not just happen.  It did not just come out of nowhere.  It was created.  And it was not just a matter of laws, or judicial opinions, it was also a matter of a democratic culture with certain norms and expectations.  And it takes a lot of conscious effort to rebuild that once it's been torn down.

I'll look at the essay after my blogging duties for the weekend and over--and after I've caught up with the shows I've taped, by way of a substitute for taking vacations and such.  An initial glance did indeed raise my interest in reading it once there is time.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I didn't mean now! (0.00 / 0)
Sorry if you got that impression. It's not like you have a job outside your weekend posting duties, eh?

Have a good evening.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


[ Parent ]
What? The Dems alone claim "we have no ideology?" (0.00 / 0)
How is that not precisely the same claim made by Roberts? Hell, carson002 above and many Open Lefters previously have expressed an incredible discomfort with the notion of ideology above some sort of imagined rationalism. Clearly, there's an idealization of some imaginary "rational" viewpoint that feels by and large comfortable to many. Do you have data that suggests that the idea of fairness for women and minorities polls at low numbers? Given the data that I've seen, and the basic fact that white men are themselves in a minority position, I would need some convincing.

       


[ Parent ]
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Indeed, I wasn't. (4.00 / 1)
No, there is no data to support any idea that "fairness" has somehow died in the polity--or at least I haven't seen any (depends a lot on the poll, the issue and its framing in the questions, right?). Indeed, people on both sides of the political fence routinely argue fairness, even though the righties have a sick and twisted definition of that word. ;^)

Good points about Roberts, et al. But Republicans are quite content to be viewed as extremists of a right-wing variety in general, so I don't typically put them in with Dem leaders who say "we have no ideology." On the other hand, Dubya ran in 2000 on this thing called "compassionate conservatism," the only point of which was to make him look less menacing to liberals and Indies. In other words, he portrayed himself as more "liberal" than he was. Obama clearly did the same, though that does not mean they are "the same."

My point is simply this: our political process has been twisted into a 47-ring circus of absurdity for a reason. The point is to separate a people from their governmental processes. Keep people confused, pissed off, laughing hysterically or crying in their proverbial beers (or whatever beverage of your choosing)... the result is the same: disenfranchisement. And, to top it all off, it bloody well works. For the moment, anyway.

So President Obama says he has no ideology. Why? So people won't bother asking those pesky questions about where he's coming from. Why? Because that leads to all sorts of problems with the polity.

Corruption as Duplicitous Exclusion means separating you from your government in a so-called 'democracy.' When the polity is clueless or simply turned off, they have all the room they need to do what they want... free of political costs.


When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


[ Parent ]
But don't you see (4.00 / 2)
That when people on the left cynically and with a tone of exasperated resignation declare, as you appear to do here, that it's all a game, a charade, on both sides, one side spouting lies, and the other side desperately trying to prove that they agree with them, the right yet again wins? I.e. by not only winning the framing wars, but convincing even the smarter and more honest people on the left that it's futile to even think of changing this for the better, it wins, by wearing down the left's long-term faith in its ability to win.

It's sort of how I usually feel when I read Digby, or even Greenwald. While I find myself almost always agreeing with their analysis of whatever issues they're dealing with, in terms of what's actually going on, I often find myself NOT agreeing with their underlying tone that it's all a game, the fix is in, Repubs will always be assholes, Dems will never stand up for anything, and there's nothing that we can do about it. The analysis is usually spot-on in terms of what IS happening. But the prognosis (which in Digby's case tends to be a LOT more doom and gloom than Greenwald, but even he tends to engage in it), in terms of what will, or at least COULD happen, is, I find, excessively defeatist, and thus self-defeating.

My view is that the other side doesn't truly win until they've convinced you that you can never beat it. I don't believe that, and never will. And, by definition, one cannot be a progressive if one does not believe not only in the NEED for, but the POSSIBILITY of, progress, even when it's looking grim. In fact ESPECIALLY when it's looking grim. Which, I think, it's less so today than it was just 5 years ago, and will, I believe, be less so in 5 years. The right's run is coming to an end, and so will its ability to control the debate and frame it on its terms. It's just going to take a while longer for that to happen. I truly believe that.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Now THIS Is Spot On! (4.00 / 2)
My view is that the other side doesn't truly win until they've convinced you that you can never beat it. I don't believe that, and never will.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Respectfully, it's not about doom and gloom.. (4.00 / 1)
The right's run is coming to an end, and so will its ability to control the debate and frame it on its terms. It's just going to take a while longer for that to happen. I truly believe that.

Yes. Absolutely YES. Almost everything points in that direction.

I do realize I can be "doom and gloom"-ish. But there's a point to analysis beyond supporting the obvious "progressives will prevail" meme. Fact is, this last election was what climbers/hikers would call a "false summit." It has all the appearances of a summit while you're climbing up to it, but only when you get there do you realize you've got another 1,200 vertical to go. There's that moment of "damn," but then you move forward and the view only gets better as you climb... so you forget about the "damn" moment until the next one comes along... and so on....

That's where we are now in a broad sense.

Just because we have to call "bullshit!" on some people now and for a while longer (in perpetuity in real terms) means little in the greater scheme of things. But if we fail to call BS now, we only set things back that much further.

Digby is really sharp. Her perceptions aren't always pleasant, but she's really effing sharp. The Game is what it is. She didn't make it any more than I did. Or you. It's designed to thwart the "little people" and is run as such. That's the whole point.

So rather than getting down on people for harshing on your bliss, why not get down on the people who run The Game instead? (That's my feeble way of trying to misdirect your criticism towards people I consider more worthy)

I'm much more optimistic than you realize. It's just that my timeline is much longer than yours. We will have our progressive era, but it's going to mean doing a lot more "battle" than some realize. The GOP is toast. So the battle now is for the Democratic Party. That's some real uphill slogging we're talking about. It means questioning our "friends," which is always much harder than dumping on an obvious "enemy."

Does that make more sense?

It's not gloom and doom. It's merely recognizing the false summit and pressing onward, regardless.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


[ Parent ]
I do NOT draw the conclusion you do on digby (4.00 / 1)
the fascists are fascists and the dems are incompetent, and so far not a hell of a lot has changed or is changing, and change is too far away right now,

but,

I do NOT see doom and gloom in her writing!

I see a lot of hope - you - YOU, ME, US, WE - we can NOT fix a goddam thing IF we don't know what the problem is. The thugs need remind people of their fantasy world and their fantasy lies and their fantasy bullshit 300 times a day, to make sure it gets out there AND to keep people distracted from the little FACT that the fantasies bear little relation to their fascist policies. Digby reminds us several times a week of the piece of shit sell outs who are supposedly on our side!

that makes ME feel good! no one is gonna fix a problem is we don't know what it is.

rmm.  

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way


[ Parent ]
I don't think she's "doom and gloom" either (4.00 / 1)
Though I can understand why some do.

Some realizations are are not all that great sometimes. I understand that some don't like reading or thinking it.

Digby reminds us several times a week of the piece of shit sell outs who are supposedly on our side!

Yes! At this point, those are the people who should be in our radar 24/7!


When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


[ Parent ]
libs can't won't fight cuz they're stuck in seasame (4.00 / 1)
street level development?

I want the world to be nicey nice, so I have to be nicey nice.

IF I'm nicey nice, THEN the world will be nicey nice.

I don't know. In the 31 years I've lived in either Boston or Seattle, since I was 18 in '78, I could NOT count the number of random political conversations I've had, with political libs, and I'm always struggling to find a convincing set of soundbites to explain

WHY we need f'ing soundbites to beat their goddam soundbites - we already got THE TRUTH, we got tomes and tomes and tomes of truth.

Anyway - the conversations are like conversations with Jesus freaks trying to convert me to their flavor-du-jour.  the freaks got these pat questions and pat answers to try to convince you to their view and their side, and I tell them ... WHY do YOU Need to believe in god? it is fucking ridiculous and childish. Most of them get confused looks, or scared looks, or looks of pity... and they leave.

I get the same looks from my libs, you can see the response(s) in their eyes.

'How dare I suggest soundbites? Soundbites are used by thugs, thugs are evil, therefore soundbites are evil. Only simple people respond to soundbites, we're not simple, therefore we can't use soundbites. I went to college, I don't listen to soundbites cuz I'm smart.'

Given that the umpires have consistently defined 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (FOR THE RICH WHITE BOYS IN THE RIGHT CLUB)' those old racist sexist pig Senators SHOULD attack anyone coming who might mess up their sandbox and take their truckie.

Maybe she just told those racist sexist fucks what they wanted to hear so she could get the brass ring?

I HOPE it isn't cuz she's so internalized their bullshit to get ahead that she's no longer capable of fighting it from 1 hell of place - Supreme Court!

rmm.

 

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way


As Lakoff Explains In Almost Every Book He Writes (4.00 / 1)
There's a deep background to problem you're talking about re soundbites, and that's the Enlightenment belief in abstract, disembodied rationalism--although it actually has roots much older than that.  Put simply, these folks suffer from mistaken understanding of how the mind works.

People ought to be hip to this by now.  Back in the 1950s, they thought that abstract thought was the epitome of reason, and if they could program computers to perform abstract operations, that would demonstrate artificial intelligence, and everything else would be downhill.  Well, of course it turns out that getting computers to perform logical conceptual operations is the simplest thing in the world.  Pattern recognition, now there's a real bitch.  Especially when the input stream gets a little bit noisy.

But as for Sotomayor, she really didn't have to say the things that I was pointing to.  She could quite easily have said, "Look, I was speaking to a particular audience about a particular subject, and as is often the case, someone who comes into the middle of a conversation is very likely to not fully understand what it's all about."

The back-peddling over appeals courts making policy was particularly ridiculous.  The Dems should have said, "You want to make an issue of this?  Fine.  We'll set up an entire witness panel of distinguished Republican appeals court judges, and let them tell you that you're full of shit."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
not to excuse her, but, there is 'beautiful' (0.00 / 0)
chicken and egg kind of thing going on, IF you're a righty.

the pathetic Dems don't fight back AND don't even back each other.  

I'm NOT a messaging guy, BUT

IF they can take horrible truths AND sell lies,
How come we can't find people to take truths and sell truths?

I BELIEVE it is possible to sell progressivism, we just don't hire the people who can write the copy ... for a lot of reasons, most bad.

If the judge stands up, even with kick ass effective messaging against these sheet wearing flat earth white boy bastards, WHO is gonna stand up with her?

I keep hoping that 1 of these go along to get along types is gonna get critical mass rocking the boat ... and then look what the bastards did to howard dean. ;)

rmm.  

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way


[ Parent ]
I wish people would ask Sotomayor the tough questions that should've been asked long ago. (0.00 / 0)
Questions like, "why did you ignore evidence in cases exonerating wrongfully convicted persons?"

AMY GOODMAN: We end today's show with a former prisoner who once appeared before Judge Sonia Sotomayor in court. His name is Jeffrey Deskovic. At the age of seventeen, he was wrongfully convicted of murder and rape. He spent sixteen years in prison, until DNA evidence proved his innocence.

In 1997, nine years before his eventual release, he appealed his conviction to Judge Sonia Sotomayor and the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. The court dismissed his appeal without even considering his innocence claim, in part because of a technicality: paperwork from his lawyer had arrived at the courthouse four days late.

Jeffrey Deskovic joins us now in our firehouse studio. He recently wrote about Sotomayor for Alternet.org. The piece is called "Judge Sonia Sotomayor Denied My Appeal and I Spent 16 Years in Prison for a Crime I Didn't Commit."

Jeffrey, welcome to Democracy Now!

JEFFREY DESKOVIC: Thank you very much.

AMY GOODMAN: Tell your story. What was your reaction when you heard Judge Sotomayor was nominated to be the Supreme Court justice?

JEFFREY DESKOVIC: Instantly, I recognized the name. I mean, I wanted to double-check on the paperwork. From there, I immediately thought about other people who would be similarly situated as I was, wrongfully convicted, whose case Judge Sotomayor would have a direct role in. I was concerned for them. I had a brief flashback of what putting procedure over innocence meant for me, in terms of remaining incarcerated, missing births, deaths, weddings, the natural course of life, and just the general horror of prison. And I immediately thought that we're really being sold a bill of goods here. Judge Sotomayor is not empathetic. If there was, there would be no-if she was, there would be no way you could square that with her ruling.

I would just like to clarify that when I filed in federal court, that was in the court just below hers. The court clerk gave my attorney inaccurate information regarding the filing procedure, because the law was unclear at that point regarding the filing procedure, because the new law had been passed limiting state prisoners. The new law had been passed and it was not clear, limiting state prisoners-they would have one year to file in federal court after being denied by their state's highest court.

And in that petition, I had a very strong argument of innocence: DNA showed that semen found in the victim didn't match me. I was also arguing that the police had violated my Fifth Amendment rights by the manner that they had interrogated me when I was sixteen years old, which is how they managed to coerce the false confession out of me, which is the only evidence that they had. So, the court, at the urging of then-Westchester district attorney candidate Jeanine Pirro, they ruled that I was late without even looking at my issues.

I then appealed that ruling to Judge Sotomayor's courtroom, which was in 1999. My attorney advanced three arguments as to why Judge Sotomayor should overturn the procedural ruling: the first is that to uphold such a ruling would be to perpetuate a miscarriage of justice, which of course ties back to my innocence argument and the DNA; the second is that reversing the procedural ruling would open the door to more sophisticated DNA testing; thirdly, that this was an error that was caused by the court clerk and not by myself and my attorney.

In her opinion, which Judge Sotomayor signed, she said that she was unpersuaded that my position was unique and that my petition had substantial merit or that it was caused by the court clerk. She was unpersuaded that those three things should trump the fact that my petition arrived four days late.

As a result of her ruling, I ultimately served six more years in prison wrongfully. Given that the US Supreme Court agrees to hear only a small percentage of cases that come in front of it, for all intents and purposes, that was my last appeal. When that decision came down, my lawyer moved to reargue the case in front of Judge Sotomayor and her colleague, Rosemary Pooler, and that, too, was denied, and the US Supreme Court did not grant me permission to appeal to them. That ruling, in effect, condemned me to serve a-continue to serve a life sentence for a crime that I was innocent of, that I had strong evidence that I was innocent and that I was arguing that.

Luckily for me, it only turned out to be an additional six years before further DNA testing not only reaffirmed my innocence, but identified the real perpetrator, who subsequently confessed and was sentenced for the crime.

AMY GOODMAN: Interestingly, tomorrow you're going to be at an event at St. Mary's Church in Harlem on 126th Street along with the sister of Troy Davis. This is a case that is gaining tremendous attention. He is on death row right now. Talk briefly about why you're there at his case and how his case now actually relates to Judge Sotomayor.

JEFFREY DESKOVIC: Well, I've dedicated my life to battling wrongful convictions. I recognize Troy's case as being that of a wrongful conviction. Seven of nine witnesses recanted. There's been four people that the alternative suspect has confessed to. There's, you know, pretty much almost universal acknowledgment of that, except through the courts and the judges.

The similarity between Mr. Davis's case and mine is that technicalities are preventing Mr. Davis from getting a ruling on the merits of his innocence. That ties into Judge Sotomayor, because that-the US Supreme Court has decided not to make a decision on his case until next term, and that means Judge Sotomayor-

AMY GOODMAN: It has just been put off until next term?

JEFFREY DESKOVIC: Yes, so that means that Judge Sotomayor will have a vote, and a very important vote, in that case.

AMY GOODMAN: If she is confirmed as Supreme Court justice.

JEFFREY DESKOVIC: Right, if she's confirmed. So my concern, in what I mentioned before, about other people wrongfully convicted, I don't have confidence in Judge Sotomayor that she is committed to correcting wrongful convictions at every turn, wherever the facts and law indicates that that-or that that should happen or that she'll step in when a quality legal argument is advanced that a trial is unfair, which goes to the matter of whether the verdict was reliable or not.

AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Jeffrey, how did you get the DNA test? How were you freed?

JEFFREY DESKOVIC: The Innocence Project agreed to take my case. They work to clear prisoners across the country where DNA testing can establish innocence. I was cleared because they stepped in. They took my case. They persuaded the local district attorney in Westchester to allow me to have the more sophisticated testing. They compared the DNA which didn't match me to the database, and it matched the real perpetrator. Again, it's really flukish, which is all the more serious as to what the judge's ruling was. I mean, if he had not committed an unrelated crime, then his DNA wouldn't have been in the database, and I still would have been in prison.

AMY GOODMAN: When were you released?

JEFFREY DESKOVIC: I was released September 20th, 2006.

I would like to add that politics has trumped justice, because I've been in numerous contact with the Senate Judiciary Committee, both the minority and the majority. I've sent them the decisions of Judge Sotomayor in my case. I expressed that I wanted to testify about the human impact of putting procedure over innocence and how that affected me and my family, wrongful convictions, in general. And basically, I got the runaround. And I've been in further contact with Senator Sessions' office, Senator Leahy's office, after the witness list came out and it was obvious I had been omitted. And I-

AMY GOODMAN: We have five seconds.

JEFFREY DESKOVIC: I requested them to add me, and both offices gave me the-will not do it.

AMY GOODMAN: Jeffrey Deskovic, I want to thank you very much for being with us. And we will link to your article about your own experience at democracynow.org. He'll be at St. Mary's in Harlem on Wednesday night.

Before Sotomayor is confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court, we need to make sure she will abide by justice and not uphold convictions she knows were fraudulent.



I think she felt that she had to respond this way (4.00 / 1)
because any other response would have given the other side fodder for yet more phony concern-mongering. These hearings, regretably, aren't exercizes in ideological enlightenment, even though they should and could be, someday. They are, instead, meant to smooth a path towards confirmation for the majority, and exploited by the minority to play to its base and stake out positions that it hopes will benefit it down the line, politically, electorally, even judicially. Like face-saving, they aren't about reality, but about perceptions.

I think that, to Obama, Dems and Sotomayor's credit, they probably realize that it's too soon to engage more aggressively and directly in outright ideological debates to recapture the public's "hearts and minds". That takes years, even decades, and is a slow and laborious process that takes place on multiple fronts and is slow to yield real-world results. Right now, they're understandably more concerned with getting as many decent bills and confirmations passed as possible, whichever way they can, and only then can they focus more on ideology and messaging.

So while I agree that they do need to do this, long-term, if they're to hold onto and build upon and strengthen their majorities, and pass even better legislation and confirm lots more qualified liberal judges in the future (especially as Scalia and Kennedy reach the end of their terms, one way or another), in the short to mid-term, they are probably better off focusing on muscling through what they can, and not concern themselves TOO much with retaking the ideological ground, and only then shift the focus.

Think of it as a hybrid drive. For short distances and lower speeds, a Prius relies mainly on its electric motor and batteries. As the battery begins to drain and/or it begins to move faster, the gas engine kicks in, and eventually takes over. Perhaps this would be a better analogy if the electric motor and gas engine were reversed, seeing as this is a progressive analogy, but you get the point. For now, we're still getting up to speed, but eventually, as we approach it, we're going to have to shift into a more enduring approach, that relies as much on ideological warfare as on the political kind. But after 40 years of running on a RW gas guzzler, it's going to take a while for that transformation to take place.

I think we can do this. Europe did it, after being arguably even less progressive than the US (or, more accurately, after having been more dominated than the US ever was by its reactionary elites), now being far more ideologically liberal than the US (and even when conservatives win in Europe, they tend to be more centrist than US conservatives). It's just going to take time, and lots of effort. The public might be stupid, but it's not completely unintelligent, and with lots of "education", it can be guided in the right (er, left) direction, I think. Even Obama's been doing his bit to do that, in-between all the parotted RW memes, e.g. saying that "Conservatism means 'You're on your own'", "Spreading the wealth", etc.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


This Is Just The Point (4.00 / 1)
You are explaining why the Dems are still responding in reactionary mode, even though (a) they've trounced the Reps in two consecutive elections and (b) it's extremely difficult to score points on defense.

I think that, to Obama, Dems and Sotomayor's credit, they probably realize that it's too soon to engage more aggressively and directly in outright ideological debates to recapture the public's "hearts and minds". That takes years, even decades, and is a slow and laborious process that takes place on multiple fronts and is slow to yield real-world results. Right now, they're understandably more concerned with getting as many decent bills and confirmations passed as possible, whichever way they can, and only then can they focus more on ideology and messaging.

Balderdash!  The longer it takes, the sooner we should get started.  Besides, how hard is it, really?  As I indicated previously, forget political ideology.  The GOP is arguing based on a picture of truth that can get you flunked out of college.  And they could be utterly humiliated with a panel of Republican-appointed simply and honestly explaining why this is so.

More broadly, however, it's quite simply impossible to be more effective in the short range by not engaging in ideological struggle.  The Dems declined such struggle on the stimulus, and got a much weaker bill as a result.  The bill's weakness is now being used against them, as if that weakness came from the Dems themselves, rather than from the ill-advised attempts at appeasement, and the blood-in-the-water followup from Republicans and conservadems.

Walk and chew gum, people. Walk and chew gum.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Not balderdash, but reality (4.00 / 1)
WE know that they can walk and chew gum at the same time. But THEY don't know it. Or, they know it, but are too scared (or don't care enough) to try. So they revert to what they're most comfortable doing, which is engaging in the sort of RW-driven politics that has dominated over the past few decades, which they believe that, by cleverly co-opting it, they will come out ahead. And which, in fact, they might, but by inches, not yards. But because they're still stuck in this mode where they either don't believe that there's any other way of doing things, or are too scared to try, in reality they can't or won't walk and chew gum at the same time. We have to push them to do that, and convince them that it can be and SHOULD be done. And that's part of what I'm talking about when I say that we have to transition from the old to the new way of doing things. That transition has to happen not only on an operational level, but also on the level of Dems realizing that they need to and can make such a transformation.

It's like they're driving a hybrid, but don't know that it can go faster and longer, or are afraid that it might break down if they try, so they stay at slow speeds and short distances. Or, to use another analogy, they're like a child that's still using training wheels on their bike, who is so used to them that he's afraid to take them off, or is convinced that if they are, they'll fall down. The transformation that I'm talking about has to happen both in that child's mind, to convince them that they can and should ride without training wheels, and on the bike itself, by actually taking them off. I'm not convinced that Dems are ready to take off those training wheels. They have to be pushed into it. Scared or threatened into it, if need be. But for now, we should fully expect them to continue to do things the old way, and I'd argue that in some cases, it might even be necessary, but increasingly less so, and, soon, not at all so.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
You Think They Need Therapy (4.00 / 3)
I think they're just malingering.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
And pointing this out will by itself get them to change? (0.00 / 0)
And it's not only malingering, but also fear, cowardice, lack of interest, competing interests, being stuck in the old, self-defeating, but nevertheless comforting modes, etc. And the solution to all of these IS therapy--SHOCK therapy. Along with, I suppose, for those able and willing to listen and understand, some rational persuasion, as you do here.

We're not disagreeing, Paul. You're talking about WHAT they need to do, and why they're not doing it. I'm talking about how to get them to do it.

I think that you overestimate the degree to which most Dems operate according to rational and ethical principles. Most of them are creatures of habit, with as little self-reflection as an alley cat, and some with as few scruples. Others are smarter and better than that, but cowardly. Only a minority know what needs to be done, and have the courage, principle and smarts to do it. The rest, have to be pushed or scared into it. If you call that therapy, then so be it. I literally don't know what other way there is to get them to change. How many of them do you think read this blog, or have even heard of it, let alone are persuaded by it?

Plus, real cute parotting a standard RW talking point.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
We Use Whips! (0.00 / 0)
I'm talking about how to get them to do it.

You know the one about the South Sea tourists and the giant pearl?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I feel like I agree with both of you (0.00 / 0)
I wish they would go after the right for their insanity and racism.  And I wanted her on the bench and frankly didn't care what pretzels they twisted themselves in to get the job done in this particular case.

I agree in general with Paul, but in this case, I'm not sure it was worth the chance.  Okay, they could have gone in guns blazing, but what if they f**ked it up?  The left is not always as sophisticated at these kind of battles as the right, as you point out.

I also wonder how much this constant racist inanity from the right is reaching normal people--especially of hispanic descent--and may have even more impact in this case just hanging there?  Not sure.  

And how many people watching did not understand that she was just "doing the Roberts"?  How much do people seriously accept what she said as her true opinion?  In a way, the Republican nitwits made the case that she was just stonewalling them.  

Just assorted thoughts.  I didn't follow it nearly as closely as others here.

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
But I'm Not Talking "Guns Blazing" Here (4.00 / 1)
I agree in general with Paul, but in this case, I'm not sure it was worth the chance.  Okay, they could have gone in guns blazing, but what if they f**ked it up?  The left is not always as sophisticated at these kind of battles as the right, as you point out.

You'll note that this diary says nothing about GOP white supremacism, as evidenced most starkly by Jeff ("the NAACP is un-American") Sessions.  I will address that in a diary that posts at midnight, and not with the Senate Dems as its focus.

Indeed, I was quite deliberately trying to focus on the fact that the matters involved can be seen in almost purely epistemological and ontological terms.  The politics simply falls out of the ontology and the epistemology, and I noted that to make the point of the connectedness, not to argue that the Dems should focus on that.  All they really needed to do was focus on correcting the GOP's false epistemology.  (And no, I am not saying they should use the word "epistemology".)

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Good point (0.00 / 0)
but I still worry about being drawn down the rabbit hole with these folks.  Even on that point.  Was this the place to try to contest the freshman thinking?  Not sure.  

The fight over epistemology is not something small, as You have pointed out.  And the right wing has proved enormously effective at using a sledgehammer to destroy logic.

To some extent, she simply refused to take them seriously as dialogic partners.  They were too stupid to be willing to even try to engage.  Isn't that another way to see it?  I wonder how others saw it.

In this case, the teflon response seems like it may have let them hang themselves a bit.  

Again, I do think you are right in general.  But in this case, I'm not so sure.  I want her on the bench.  And I want her to look somewhat "neutral".  Maybe that's wrong.

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]





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