I would add one thing we could do - (4.00 / 4)

They need to understand that the White House, and Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi will cut them off at the knees on all future requests. They need to understand that progressives will recruit primary candidates against anyone who stops health care reform, and that progressive donors will stop giving to anyone who helps the Republicans on a filibuster fight.

I agree with all of these Mike but I feel that we need to reduce the Blue Dog Caucus by half - through a concentrated effort.  Yes, flush the Blue Dogs in the most strategic districts that allow us to tilt the field with the easiest effort and least money.  In the end, the Democratic Caucus will be stronger and still have a majority while diluting the obstructive proclivities that Blue Dogs have toward a Progressive Agenda.  

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by: dr fatman @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 12:58:06 PM CDT

Agreed. We need to encourage Democratic candidates that are willing meet and support America's demands for change. (0.00 / 0)

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 08:36:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If the bill comes to Obama's desk without a public option (0.00 / 0)

and he vetos it for that reason.  Who loses?

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 13:06:40 PM CDT

If thats the fight that Obama wants, I am willing to back him. (0.00 / 0)

If we cannot have the compromise, next we draw the line in the sand at Single Payer.

And I think we have to make that frame and promise.

If Obama has to veto a bill because its reform in name only, then we have a drive to elect Single Payer Democrats, and defeat republicans and democrats that wont even support this Line in the Sand compromise.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 08:39:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

great post (4.00 / 2)

this is exactly what bill kristol said today, except the other way around...its do or die and they know it too.

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by: aiko @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 14:16:15 PM CDT

And Kristol must have that dumb grin on his face .. (0.00 / 0)

seeing what Rep. Mike Ross is saying .. Kristol must be partying like it is 1993/1994 ... while Pelosi might want to cut off Ross at the knees ... I don't trust Steny Hoyer to help her .. I'd bet on Hoyer to undercut her(with Rahm's help)

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 16:07:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Health care will not "die" (0.00 / 0)

The complex, untested, and Rube-Goldberq-esque contraption the Democrats -- who seem to have forgotten they're Democrats -- have screwed together might well die. Could it be that it deserves to die?

It leaves out 10 million citizens, only gets 9 million in so-called "public option," implements an HMO-style care denial system, and doesn't kick in 'til 2013. People are asking if this is "As Good As It Gets", and they're right.

If the choice is between a bad bill that starts in 2013, and going back to the drawing board and producing a good bill that starts in 2011 (Medicare was implemented that fast), then I say no bill is better than a bad bill. How about we give citizen agitation some time to work on this, instead of trying to leave it all up to HCAN't and Obama's top down so-called forums?

Doing the right thing might cause some problems for the Dems in the mid-terms. On the other hand, a little genuine leadership would go a long way on this. Why don't Americans deserve a health care system that's as good as other countries? Why are the Dems pushing a program they admit is second best?

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

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by: lambert @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 17:24:45 PM CDT

Shorter (4.00 / 1)

Shorter Mike Lux: The mid-terms are coming.

* * *

I think the idea that "this is our one chance" is a self-serving crock designed to make voters settle for less. The agitation is not going to go away -- whether the Dems pass the bullshit public option, or whether they don't. People are finally at the "nothing to lose" stage on this.  

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

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by: lambert @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 17:28:45 PM CDT

re (0.00 / 0)

This is our hill to die on.

a-freakin-men!

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by: The Big Hurt @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 21:19:53 PM CDT

I don't plan to die for bullshit (0.00 / 0)

And it's hard to be on a hill when you're under the bus!

* * *

Not sure what you meant, there, TBH!

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

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by: lambert @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 21:42:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

let's get our feet in the door first (0.00 / 0)

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by: The Big Hurt @ Mon Jul 20, 2009 at 22:27:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Appealing metaphor (0.00 / 0)

but not grounded in reality, so far as I can tell.

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

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by: lambert @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 01:22:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Dont know why that link is about "grounded in reality" (0.00 / 0)

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 08:42:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why? (0.00 / 0)

You think the "public option" bait and switch is anything but FAIL?* Check the links out -- A plan that doesn't start 'til 2013 is only going to have 9 million people by 2019. That's going to "keep the insurance companies honest"?

NOTE * Unless you're an insurance company looking for a guaranteed marketplace, of course.


I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

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by: lambert @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 09:17:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I support the progressive caucus's line in the sand,which is also now the Presidents. (0.00 / 0)

Demanding a "line in the sand" that doesn't have support of of the Progressive caucus as a "we will not vote for this" is suicide.

If you want something more show us how to do it. Where are the votes coming form, what community is willing to do what to acheive it.

Complaining, and stopping this set of needed reforms, is not action, or a call to action. It is cynicism and obstruction.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 10:00:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

And there speaks the "progressive"! (0.00 / 0)

Advocating forcefully for the best policy is "cynicism."

In reality, of course, it opens up space for you on the left!

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

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by: lambert @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 13:10:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We arent talking anymore about the philosophy, or the degrees of progressiveness (0.00 / 0)

we are now talking about counting the votes, and passing a bill. The republicans, the Health insurance 'industry', kristol, limbaugh, Steele and right wing l;oonies of all stripes are working as hard as they can to stop any bill, just as they did against Clinton.

Now is the time to pass this bill, if it meets the line drawn in the sand by the progressive caucus, with Kucinich's amendment (knockwood). The next thing to do is reduce the power of blue dogs, and increase the power of the progressive caucus, and send more Bernie Sanders to Washington.

But until we do that, we have to what we can with who we have.

I'd would love to have the progressive caucus add the amendment of their bottom line.

Pass the BILL, Hold the LINE!

Look we didnt stop the CHIP bill's extension of medicare to an extra 3 million children a few months just because it didnt also cover another 3 million.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 16:15:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Let me translate for you (0.00 / 0)

Send the Democrats more money! The midterms are coming up! That's all that this "hold the line" bushwa from you and Lux boils down to. Feh.

* * *

Obama, 2003:

In 2003, a young Illinois state senator named Barack Obama told an AFL-CIO meeting, "I am a proponent of a single-payer universal healthcare program." There was only one thing standing in the way, Obama said six years ago: "All of you know we might not get there immediately because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate and we have to take back the House."

Well, we did all that. We gave the Dems the House. We have the Dems the Senate. We gave the Dems 60 in the Senate. And we gave them the Presidency.

And what do we get? The complex, untested, and Rube Goldberg-esque farce of a bait and switch maneuver that public option is. The best thing that could happen is that this monstrosity die an ugly death, and then the Democrats get punished in the polls, or better yet primaried out. Maybe if they stopped sucking, we'd actually get some health care.

As far as your ludicrously over-the-top CHIP analogy, if there were a shred of truth to it, you'd hardly be putting off the public plan's implementation 'til 2013, oh-so-conveniently after the next presidential election, right?

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

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by: lambert @ Tue Jul 21, 2009 at 22:45:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

HGey lambert we all get it, its not easy, and we have to work too hard. (0.00 / 0)

Oh my. I might even have to stay up late. Our parents and grandparents sat in troopships opff the coast of Normandy and they all knew that

Thjey all knew it wasn't going to be easy, and they that some of their captains sergents and gennerals were less than perfect, unlike you, yet their grided themeselves to do what was necessary.

Compared to staffing phones, organizing people to call, stuff and read. Organize people to register, to challenge laws, to challenge the bought off, to get the word out. Well Hell doesnt seem to bad to me.

You come off as either a naderite who finds satuisfaction in  complainning and not acting, or a republican who wants to prevent action period.

Got a way to help move things forward? Suggest it.

Other wise what is your purpose what are you doing here.


Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.

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by: HousesofProgress @ Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 16:47:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]