The Family: More Mythos, More Madness, More Maddow

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 20:00


Over the past three weeks, Rachel Maddow has repeatedly had Jeff Sharlet, author of The Family as a guest on her show to discuss the unfolding revelations surrounding the secretive elite fundamentalist organization and it's Washington safe house on C Street.  In doing so, Maddow has repeatedly hammered away at the point that what's involved here is far more than just standard-issue rightwing hypocrisy about sex.  It's about the very essence of conservative belief in an unelected elite that is destined to rule without any accountability to those it would rule over.

This is the very antithesis of what America is supposed to be all about.  And yet these people are part of a wider movement that is tirelessly trying to rewrite American history to make us believe that America was founded by people like them, to be a nation ruled by people like them, when nothing could be further from the truth.  This false teaching of theirs is very much an example of mythos over logos, a system of meaning that is impervious to fact or logic.

On Thursday, July 9, Maddow and Sharlet discussed just how radically outside the mainstream The Family is-not just the mainstream of American political thought, but outside the mainstream of Christianity as well-fundamentally opposed to it, in fact:

SHARLET:  What makes it a little bit different than other Christian conservative organizations-two things.  You said that it's secretive.  Indeed, the leader of the group describes it, he says, "The more invisible you can make your organization, the more influence it will have."

And the other thing is the nature of the influence they want to have.  I got to sit in on a spiritual counseling session between the leader of the family and Congressman Todd Tiahrt on the C Street house.  I actually, met Senator Ensign there.

As the leader of the family was counseling Congressman Tiahrt, who had this very standard issue, bill of issues related to the Christian right, and he said, you've got to have a bigger vision of what we're talking about here.  He described-he called it "Jesus plus nothing."  And he said it's sort of a totalitarian idea of Christianity and he gave his examples of men who he believed, understood the way power should wielded.  He actually gave his examples, Hitler, Pol Pot, Osama bin Laden and Lenin.

Sure!  What God-fearing Christian doesn't look up to Hitler, Pol Pot, Osama bin Laden and Lenin?

Paul Rosenberg :: The Family: More Mythos, More Madness, More Maddow
MADDOW:  Wow.  When I-when I read your book, "The Family," when it first came out in hardback, Jeff, I-my notes on, I write notes in the fly leaf about I'm thinking about it.  And my notes about it, I went back and looked for that.  It was essentially to promote-its role (ph) is promoting American power worldwide, unfettered capitalism, no unions, no programs to help poor people-all with this idea that godly, powerful rich men should get at many resources as possible personally and they should just privately help everyone else.  That was the impression that I was left with.

Was I close?

SHARLET:  That's dead on the money.  The Family-again, it's the oldest Christian conservative organization in Washington.  And it goes back 70 years when the founder believed that God gave him a new revelation, saying that Christianity had gotten it wrong for 2000 years, and that what most people think of as Christianity is being about, you know, helping the weak and the poor and the meek and the down and out.

He believed God came to him one night in April of 1935 and said, what Christianity should really be about is building more power for the already powerful and that these powerful men who are chosen by God can then-if they want to dispense blessings to the rest of us, through a kind of trickle down fundamentalism.

So, Jesus loved the money-changers.  It was that rag-tag bunch of disciples he had that he really loathed!  Riiiiiiight!

Talk about taking Jesus' name in vain!  This is the most blasphemous outfit you are ever likely to meet.  They make devil-worshippers seem downright orthodox.  At least they know who they are praying to!

MADDOW:  Well, do you see a connection between that larger sort of power theology and the fact that neither John Ensign nor Mark Sanford for that matter is also affiliated with the group, aren't quitting despite these scandals?

Is there something about this type of theology that tells these guys, "Hey, don't worry about the affair, you know?  Big picture, you're good.  Stay where you are.  It's important for you to stay in power"?

SHARLET:  Yes.  No.  I think actually Governor Sanford made it very clear when he cited King David as an example of the reason why he wasn't going to be resigning office.  And that just struck a bell with me, because I-the King David story is the core teaching of the Family.  When I first heard it, I was living with the Family.

One of the leaders in the Family was explaining why King David was important.  And he says, it's not because he was good man, it's because he's a bad man.  You know, seduced another man's wife.  He actually had the husband murdered.

And he wants to explain why this was a model-and he says to one of the men in the group, he says, "Suppose I heard you raped three little girls.  What would I think of you?"  And this guy, being a human being, says, "You would think I was a monster."  Well, the leader of the Family says, "No, not at all, because you're chosen.  You're chosen by God for leadership, and so the normal rules don't apply."

Again, presumptuously identifying oneself with King David-when there are far, far more Biblical examples of wealthy and powerful men brought down by their arrogance-is nothing but an example of idolatry. An organization that makes this a core part of its practice, a core part of its mythos, can only be considered an idolatrous cult.

Unlike logos, mythos is extremely maleable, even though it may present itself as totally fixed and unshakable.  There is no underlying structure of necessity, as with logic, to keep it in line. If you change the details of a mythic tale, then you change its implications.  Or you can simply change the interpretation.  This has happened countless times with countless different religions over the years.

And so here you have this group that explicitly teaches that they both exempt from God's law and they are its ultimate enforcers!

Clearly, logos plays no role whatsoever in their livers.

On the Friday, July 10 show, Sharlet described in more detail their practice of working in secret, and how private, hidden money transactions--like the bribes in the Ensign case--are a routine part of how they do business in the shadows:

SHARLET: As David Coe-one of the leaders of the group, the son of the man we just saw, and also John Ensign's spiritual counselor we now know-as David Coe explained it to me a few years ago, if money moves around behind the scenes through what they call the man-to-man financial method, then we are able to sort of maintain this veneer of privacy, and that this is very important, because when you're dealing with members of the Family, these guys have been chosen by God for leadership and what the Family is going to do is in some ways almost play the role of consigliores, as fixers for these guys.

So, when I heard about the Ensign money, that makes sense as a kind of thing that they might be comfortable with.  But you've got to pull it out into sort of a broader picture.  Doug Coe, the leader of the group has said, he said, "I loan or give money to all sorts of people or I have my friends do so."

Now, Coe takes no salary many years.  All of the money is sort of moving through this man method and when you apply that overseas-as they do-you start to see what the idea of this is.  They believe in something called "biblical capitalism," and biblical capitalism is the way they're going to bring the gospel to the already powerful.  Where the money goes they believe God goes.

MADDOW:  So, biblical capitalism, this idea of the man-to-man financial method, which is one of the more awkward terms of a summer full of awkward terms.  That-it's not just part of the way that they exert power.  That is part of their theology, that's part of the way they understand how they are, their version of Christianity at least.

SHARLET:  Absolutely yes.  It's a theological position.

And when they call themselves a Christian mafia and talk about sort of avoiding institutionalization, talk about avoiding, you know, the books and records and all of that kind of stuff-all of this stuff allows them to avoid accountability.  What they see it as is avoiding the building up of an edifice.

There is a level in which they're almost antichurch.  They don't like an organized church because it's too democratic.  They like this sort of behind-the-scenes elite approach....

It's not that he's a neo Nazi of some sort.  It's that they fetishize strength.  They look for the leader who they believe is chosen by God.  Evidence is his power, his wealth, and his willingness to align himself with their version of American power.

The dictator Suharto in Indonesia was one such.  They organized meetings for him with American defense contractors, with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, with the secretary of defense, and most notably, since Indonesia is a major oil producing company with American oil executives, who described their meetings in memos of Congress as great moments of spiritual honesty between themselves and the dictator.

Let me repeat that: "great moments of spiritual honesty between themselves and the dictator."

Classic!

It bears noting that the way The Famile actually operates is virtually indistinguishable from the way that the non-existent Bavarian Illuminati is alleged to operate.  Yes, projection, once again.

Immediately after the above, there's this, clarifying exactly what these people should be obligated to do:

MADDOW:  Jeff, briefly, we're just about out of time-but religion is obviously a private matter in this country.  Do you think that the members of Congress who belong to this religious group should feel compelled to tell the country more about the group?  Do you feel that would be appropriate?

SHARLET:  I think when you have-when you have members of Congress who are looking to a particular religious group for a sense of authority, which is explicitly antidemocratic, that explicitly fetishizes strength and dictatorial power, if they want to do that, that it's their choice.  But I think they owe it to their constituents to say, "Here is why I have chosen to leave the mainstreams of American religion and affiliate myself with this sect that is so unorthodox and so really brutal in its theology."

To me, that seems like the least they could do.  But they're balling their eyes out right now about the very thought of anyone asking them anything.  I think I've never seen so many anti-choice Republicans kick up such a long-lasting storm over the right to privacy before. Have you?

This is what we need to do--drag them out into the sunlight, sort of like vampires, and see how long they last.  Let them explain to their constituents about how God has chosen them, just like he chose bin Laden.

Yeah. That's the ticket.  I'm sure it will go over very well in Nevada. Or South Carolina.  Or just about anywhere, really.  Because, you know, we're such a Christian nation.  And these guys, well, they've been chosen by God.  So what's not to like?

Tell us more.  Please.


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When do we start using the c-word? (4.00 / 6)
You know, "cult?"

I guarantee you if a bunch of liberals were involved in anything one quarter as flaky and weird, we would be hearing that word in the old media 24/7.

Montani semper liberi


I Don't Know, Sadie (4.00 / 3)
There are some pretty respectable cults that might sue us for defamation!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Barbara Ehrenreich kinda, sorta did in "the Nation:" (4.00 / 2)
"Sean Hannity has called Obama's church a "cult," but that term applies far more aptly to Clinton's "Family," which is organized into "cells"--their term--and operates sex-segregated group homes for young people in northern Virginia"

http://www.thenation.com/doc/2...

OK, that's not entirely satisfying, but I think that's as good as we're going to get.


[ Parent ]
Why not go for the money quote? (0.00 / 0)
"At the heart of The Family's American branch is a collection of powerful right-wing politicos, who include, or have included, Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe and Rick Santorum. They get to use The Family's spacious estate on the Potomac, The Cedars, which is maintained by young men in Family group homes and where meals are served by The Family's young women's group. And, at The Family's frequent prayer gatherings, they get powerful jolts of spiritual refreshment, tailored to the already powerful.

Clinton fell in with The Family in 1993, when she joined a Bible study group composed of wives of conservative leaders like Jack Kemp and James Baker. When she ascended to the Senate, she was promoted to what Sharlet calls the Family's "most elite cell," the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast, which included, until his downfall, Virginia's notoriously racist Senator George Allen."

Remind me, what year did healthcare reform last fail? Which US Senator abandoned their advocacy for such after being co-opted by President O?

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
c=covenant theology (4.00 / 4)
Something that was big in the 1600s.  The theology is that money is the major sign of who is blessed and who is cursed by God.  And since, in this system, God saves or damns who He pleases, poverty is a sign of sinfulness while wealth is a sign of being chosen by God.

This is not new, it is at least 300 years older than The Family.  Of course I associate it with (among other things) the Salem Witch Trials.  Apparently it was considered to be part of the Swiss Reformation and a major factor in the original development of capitalism.

By the mid 1700s. this theology was (fortunately) in decline.

Is it strange that this glorification of the wealthy as the elect of God made a come back at the height of the Great Depression.  


[ Parent ]
Thanks For Pointing This Out (0.00 / 0)
I didn't mean to suggest that this sort of anti-Christian Christianity had never been seen before.  Of course it's been seen repeatedly, and I should have said so.

Heck, even Jesus faced it, right?  That thing with denying him three times before the cock crowed?  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
John Calvin of Geneva developed (or at least refined) (0.00 / 0)
the Protestant theory of Predestination, that being well-off is a sign that you were blessed by god and meant to be well off, and just the opposite if you weren't well-off. It's total nonsense (apologies to anyone who believes this crap, but it's crap), and was used to justify all sorts of atrocities like slavery and genocide. This is why I despise religion (as opposed to spirituality, which is individual or small-group, while religion is generally large-group), because it can and has been used to justify whatever needed justification by those who controlled it. Marx had it only half right. Religion isn't just the opiate of the masses. It's also the hypnotic elixir of the elite, to be used over stupid, unsophisticated, weak-minded and/or desperate people to do their bidding unawares. Kind of like modern conservatism.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
Well, there is the cult of Nader (4.00 / 1)
And, of course, the Cult of O.

I'm not being entirely snarky, either. Some of these people exhibit patterns of thought and behavior that aren't that different from what these Christian cultists engage in. What's weird is that I'd always associated cult-like behavior with the ideological extremes. The Cult of O is a mainly centrist one, with left-wing leanings and pretensions, which is a new phenomenon as far as I know. Then again, Hillary's got her own cult following, and she's a centrist.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
This is somewhat what I meant (0.00 / 0)
in my comment downthread about the influence of "tribalism" and that it manifests itself across the political spectrum. I DO think that Paul is onto something here but that there's more -- and maybe even something more fundamental -- at work here than just the "mythos/logos" behavior polarity.  

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Versailles As A Whole (0.00 / 0)
is a centrist cult that worships itself.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Chip Pickering's secret diary (4.00 / 2)
Former Mississippi Congressman and member of The Family Chip Pickering recorded details of his adulterous exploits in a diary which is currently under seal in the divorce case with his estranged wife, Leisha.

While former Rep. Chip Pickering of Mississippi allegedly carried on an extramarital affair with Elizabeth Creekmore Byrd, he recorded details of his exploits in a secret diary, including the dates and locations of his adulterous encounters.

Pickering, a Republican, described several assignations he had with Creekmore Byrd inside the C Street House, a Capitol Hill townhouse inhabited by an all-male group of right-wing Republican congressmen belonging to The Fellowship, an evangelical group, according to a person familiar with the diary's contents.

And according to a divorce filing by Pickering's estranged wife, Leisha, the former congressman's diary reveals the identities of several men who enabled his adulterous trysts and helped him cover his tracks.

Leisha has sued Chip's alleged mistress, Elizabeth Creekmore Byrd, for sabotaging her marriage.  Her lawyers are attempting to get the explosive diary publicly released.

When she attempted to introduce her husband's diary as evidence during a July 7 divorce hearing in Mississippi, Pickering's lawyers demanded Judge Cynthia Lee Brewer keep them under seal. Though the lawyers had scant legal precedent for their request, the judge acceded, saying the diaries were prepared in anticipation of litigation and were therefore inadmissible in court.

...Leisha Pickering then sued her husband's alleged mistress, Creekmore Byrd. Mississippi is one of four states that allow such lawsuits, justifying them on the grounds that sabotaging a marriage represents deliberate interference with a legally binding contract. To represent her, Leisha Pickering has tapped two high-powered local lawyers who are both former state Supreme Court justices.

A source close the case told me the judge presiding over the lawsuit could rule to make the Pickering diary public, thereby voiding Brewer's decision in the divorce court. So long as the judge's decision is pending, the diary represents a ticking time bomb-with the potential to rock corridors of conservative power from Jackson, Mississippi, to C Street in Washington.




To me, this is frightening.... (4.00 / 2)
off the wall, scifi like, crazy and insane but scary because I KNOW these kinds of people exist.  

I always said I felt better dealing with crooks and liars concerned with money and sex, that dealing with these religious cult types in government.


[ Parent ]
Is it just me... (0.00 / 0)
Or is the term American Falangists coming to mind with others?

These folks seem straight out of Franco's manifesto to me.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


A Protestant Opus Dei? (0.00 / 0)
Could be.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
American fascists (4.00 / 2)
From Jeff Sharlet's web page:

The Family is about the other half of American fundamentalist power-not its angry masses, but its sophisticated elites. Sharlet follows the story back to Abraham Vereide, an immigrant preacher who in 1935 organized a small group of businessmen sympathetic to European fascism, fusing the Far Right with his own polite but authoritarian faith. From that core, Vereide built an international network of fundamentalists who spoke the language of establishment power, a "family" that thrives to this day. In public, they host prayer breakfasts; in private they preach a gospel of "biblical capitalism," military might, and American empire. Citing Hitler, Lenin, and Mao, the Family's leader declares, "We work with power where we can, build new power where we can't."

Maybe it is time for us all to read Remains of the Day again.


This is just so sick (4.00 / 2)
The entitlement and hubris of these assholes is beyond belief.
Whatever gives them an emotional hard on - power, money, sex - just say "God chose me to do this for the greater benefit of all humanity", and voila - hands and soul clean as a whistle no matter what you do. Sweet.



The dominionists scare the 'living hell' out of me! (4.00 / 1)
From Wikipedia: Dominionism

Dominionism describes, in several distinct ways, a tendency among some conservative politically-active Christians, especially in the United States of America, to seek influence or control over secular civil government through political action-aiming either at a nation governed by Christians, or a nation governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law. The use and application of this terminology is a matter of controversy...

ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...


Tribalism (0.00 / 0)
I grew up Republican and  conservative in Texas. I've long since rejected just about  everything I was indoctrinated  with.  But in addition to the different ways of thinking, which I think you've accurately dillineateted, there are different ways of being. Seeing the opposing side of a politicol debate as an "enemy" is also famously descriptive of conservative doctrine. But I see liberals do this too and then use logical arguments to support the notion that conservatives are tantamount to a different breed of humanity. In the long run, creating these polarities doesn't  do us much good.
 

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

I Hope You Realize (4.00 / 2)
That I've repeatedly written about (a) how there's substantial conservative support for liberal policies (especially, but not limited to welfare state spending), (b) how the biggest gap in American politics is between movement conservatives like Grover Norquist and ordinary conservative voters as a whole, and (c) how liberalism is in many respects an attempt to deliver conservative desideratum in a rapidly changing world.

In short, at the same time that I think it's very important to understand fundamental differences between liberal and conservative culture and worldviews as whole, I also think it's just as important to understand commonalities and connections.  Sloppy, lazy or just plain no thinking about either differences or similarities will not get us anywhere, IMHO.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
True (4.00 / 1)
I think I was being too vague because mostly I agree with you. And I'm not advocating for a "no thinking" approach. However, I feel that there is an element of tribalism at work in how people choose their political identities and that this adherence to "one's own kind" can be equally or more influential than other patterns of behavior -- and that this can behavior be observed across the political spectrum.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
There Are Certainly Elements Of Tribalism (0.00 / 0)
But it's important to realize that liberal-hating has always been an important element of conservatism--and quite naturally so, since conservatism is, at bottom, belief in elite rule, and hatred of anyone who disputes that comes with the territory.  Liberalism, OTOH, is a philosophy of inclusion and egalitarianism, which works against tribal tendencies.  It's not that liberals can't be tribal.  You're correct to note that it's a general human tendency.  But in one case the basic philosophy meshes perfectly with tribal tendencies, in the other, the basic philosophy works against those tendencies.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Have to agree with that n/t (0.00 / 0)


Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Conservatives hate people unlike themselves (0.00 / 0)
Liberals are ok with difference, and when they do hate--and some do--hate hateful people, like conservatives. Huge difference.

As for tribalism, I always have to crack up whenever I hear some poor stiff who'll never be anywhere near rich defend the right of gazillionares to rip them off because, of course, they too will be immensely rich someday and reserve they right to plunder too. FREEDUMB!

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
So it's ok to worship Hitler in secret (0.00 / 0)
But not ok to call them out as dangerous psychopaths in public?

Clearly, you have not completely unlearned the lessons that you were taught on the right. Or, perhaps, you have overlearned whatever lessons you've learned on the left. Liberalism is not pacifism, let alone stupidity. To not call out evil is itself evil. We're not talking about run of the mill small government conservatives (who are stupid and/or hypocritical but not necessarily crazy or evil). Huge difference between the Goldwaters and Ensigns of the right.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Congratulations (0.00 / 0)
You win the Godwin Prize for this discussion. See Paul's example above for how to give a thoughtful and thorough reply.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
No, you win the Clueless prize for lack of reading comprehension (4.00 / 1)
As Paul wrote in his piece, these people actually admire people like Hitler and say so, making my comment 100% apropos. Godwin's point was that inappropriate references to Hitler and Nazis made appropriate ones hard to make. This one's one of the latter.

But do enjoy talking to yourself.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Can't agree (0.00 / 0)
Although it can be argued that your Hitler reference is appropriate for talking about The Family, I don't accept it as an appropriate reply for my comment. Again, I reference my exchange with Paul, above, for how to have a more constructive exchange about the phenomenon of conservatism thought.  

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
But we're not talking about legitimate conservative thought here, are we? (0.00 / 0)
It does exist, I'll readily agree, and I probably agree with some of it. But we're talking about wackjobs who merely call themselves conservatives, who are about as conservative as I am the king of Prussia. They are radicals, crazy, dangerous and irresponsible radicals, and cowards to boot, because they lie and operate in secret, where they espouse truly insane ideas that they don't have the guts to declare openly. And ridicule is not only appropriate in dealing with them, it is essential. This diary is about these faux conservatives, and you can't hijack it by saying "But wait, they're not all this bad!", even if that happens to be true, let alone "And therefore you can't ridicule any of them". That's just dishonest and silly.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
Who's hijaking? (0.00 / 0)
Although I agree that the subject of Paul's diary is "wackjobs," I think Paul is also addressing the underlying causes  of "wackjob" thinking which he ascribes to "mythos, a system of meaning that is impervious to fact or logic." In fact, the diary is part of series exploring the whole subject of "mythos" in defining "conservative" -- not just "wackjob" -- thinking. I think it's more complicated than that because there are "wackjobs" acros the political spectrum. But Paul convinced me that my analysis wasn't quite right either. What it seems to me that you're saying is that the cause of the type of "wackjob" thinking exemplified by The Family is more likely to be "pure evil" and that this perspective is outside the realm of the conservative-liberal spectrum. Am I right?

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
Not necessarily "pure evil" (0.00 / 0)
But certainly encompassing certain evil ideas and attitudes, like the embrace of truly evil people like Hitler and Pol Pot, and the belief that lying to one's constituents on a regular and egregious level is justifiable.

In any case, while I agree that there are wackjobs across the political spectrum, it's simply undeniable that unless there's a massive group of far-left wackjobs who are either silent or have been effectively silenced (which is impossible to do in our society), the vast majority of them are on the far, far right these days (and, really, always have been). Between the birthers, gun nuts, end days nuts, Jesus freaks, anti-abortionists, teabaggers, Bilderberg/CFR CTers, AIPAC/Zionist CTers, etc., we're talking 10-20% if not more of the voting public. And they are off the scale insane. Maybe not evil, but insane.

Paul wasn't talking about more serious and honest (and, really, liberal, because the two are not mutually exclusive) conservatives who derive from Burke and Hamilton, like Philips, Dean, Fein, Barr, Bacevich, etc.--all of whom have abandoned the GOP--but those who are either crazy, like the birthers, or massively dishonest and even evil, like the Family, Gingrich, Norquist, etc.--or, sometimes, both, like Coulter, Palin, Malkin, etc. And they all have their "mythos", not "logos", because there is no logic to their nonsense. It's either craziness, or dishonesty, and often both. Not that the left doesn't have its crazies and/or shills and liars. But in far fewer numbers than the right.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
the more "more serious and honest" conservatives (0.00 / 0)
That seems to be the real crux of the matter. How somehow these people -- and they truly are a minority -- can still be allied with the "wackjobs" is truly beyond my imagination. Yet I meet these people all the time. Call it "craziness, dishonesty..." Thanks for the discussion.

Save Our Schools! March & National Call to Action, July 28-31, 2011 in Washington, DC: http://www.saveourschoolsmarch...

[ Parent ]
I think that Paul was trying to carve out the wackjobs from the serious ones (0.00 / 0)
irregardless of whether or not liberals might agree with the latter. The former believe in myths, the latter at least attempt to operate within logic. I'm reading a bio of Hamilton now, and while he's someone that both sides could point to with admiration and respect, he probably leans a bit more right than today's liberals do. And if he is a conservative, he'd clearly be one of the coherent and serious ones today. Say, in the Comey or Dean camp. But the vast majority of today's public "conservatives" are clearly crazy, stupid and/or dishonest.

I think that the right needs a serious self-examination, and to clean house. It'll cost them the majority for a generation or longer, but that's probably going to happen anyway. Might as well make the most of the time-out and stop lying to itself. The sane ones need to purge the crazies and stoopids, and rebuild the party around themselves. Of course, the corporatists will probably take over in the end. But that's traditionall been the GOP's role, and if by becoming more moderate it attacts some ConservaDems, all the better.

We need a political realignment that's along ideological lines. What he have now is untenable, in both parties. Dems are too dominated by right-leaning centrists, and Repubs are too dominated by far-right nutjobs. Repubs need to kick out the crazies and make up for the lost votes in the center-right, and Dems can made up for those lost votes on the real left, including Naderites who've abandoned the party. People should be where they ideologically belong. And the crazies belong back up their asses, from whence they sprung.

But I'd love to see a far-right third party built around the likes of Palin, Limbaugh and Buchanan and all those no longer welcome crazies. Oh the sheer comic potential!

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Good dialog at FireDogLake: (4.00 / 1)
Here. I especially liked his listing some members of The Family (comment 167):

Here's an excerpt from the excerpt currently available at Mother Jones, listing a few of the contemporary members:

The Family is in its own words an "invisible" association, though it has always been organized around public men. Senator Sam Brownback (R., Kansas), chair of a weekly, off - the- record meeting of religious right groups called the Values Action Team (VAT), is an active member, as is Representative Joe Pitts (R., Pennsylvania), an avuncular would-be theocrat who chairs the House version of the VAT. Others referred to as members include senators Jim DeMint of South Carolina, chairman of the Senate Steering Committee (the powerful conservative caucus co-founded back in 1974 by another Family associate, the late senator Carl Curtis of Nebraska); Pete Domenici of New Mexico (a Catholic and relatively moderate Republican; it's Domenici's status as one of the Senate's old lions that the Family covets, not his doctrinal purity); Chuck Grassley (R., Iowa); James Inhofe (R., Oklahoma); Tom Coburn (R., Oklahoma); John Thune (R., South Dakota); Mike Enzi (R., Wyoming); and John Ensign, the conservative casino heir elected to the Senate from Nevada, a brightly tanned, hapless figure who uses his Family connections to graft holiness to his gambling-fortune name. "Faith-based Democrats" Bill Nelson of Florida and Mark Pryor of Arkansas, sincere believers drawn rightward by their understanding of Christ's teachings, are members, and Family stalwarts in the House include Representatives Frank Wolf (R., Virginia), Zach Wamp (R., Tennessee), and Mike McIntyre, a North Carolina Democrat who believes that the Ten Commandments are "the fundamental legal code for the laws of the United States" and thus ought to be on display in schools and court houses.

The Family's historic roll call is even more striking: the late senator Strom Thurmond (R., South Carolina), who produced "confidential" reports on legislation for the Family's leadership, presided for a time over the Family's weekly Senate meeting, and the Dixie-crat senators Herman Talmadge of Georgia and Absalom Willis Robertson of Virginia-Pat Robertson's father-served on the behind-the-scenes board of the organization. In 1974, a Family prayer group of Republican congressmen and former secretary of defense Melvin Laird helped convince President Gerald Ford that Richard Nixon deserved not just Christian forgiveness but also a legal pardon. That same year, Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist led the Family's first weekly Bible study for federal judges.

"I wish I could say more about it," Ronald Reagan publicly demurred back in 1985, "but it's working precisely because it is private."

"We desire to see a leadership led by God," reads a confidential mission statement. "Leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." Another principle expanded upon is stealthiness; members are instructed to pursue political jujitsu by making use of secular leaders "in the work of advancing His kingdom," and to avoid whenever possible the label Christian itself, lest they alert enemies to that advance. Regular prayer groups, or "cells" as they're often called, have met in the Pentagon and at the Department of Defense, and the Family has traditionally fostered strong ties with businessmen in the oil and aerospace industries.

And here's an interesting diary on DailyKos.


PHB also points to an Asheville Citizen Times piece suggesting that (0.00 / 0)
Heath Schuler is a C Street resident: http://www.citizen-times.com/a...

[ Parent ]
why so little coverage? (0.00 / 0)
i have to ask why this has been getting so little coverage? other than Maddow and a couple of blogs I've seen nothing about it and most of my friends and associates have never heard of it unless i've told them about it. the media talked for weeks on end about jeremiah wright for saying "god damn america" and none of them want to talk about the cult that herds of congressmen are deeply involved in, the leader of which repeatedly talks about how admirable hitler, pol pot and lenin are? where's the outrage? is this just being pushed to the back until election season comes around?  

Well, (0.00 / 0)
you have to remember Michael Jackson died, and what could be more important than that?

But seriously, if a wacko leftwing cult was at the center of our government, you'd better believe we'd be hearing about it. This is just another example of IOKIYAR.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Dayum! (0.00 / 0)
Are these C Street nutjobs getting any secret messages from The Beatles White Album?

It's like that classic Doobie Brothers song (4.00 / 1)
"Hitler is Just Alright With Me!". Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo...

The resemblance of your typical wingnut, be it a leader or follower, to the secondary characters and villains in a David Lynch film, is simply uncanny.

There are power-hungry malcontents, psychopaths and charlatans in every society. They tend to accumulate on the right--or, more accurately, within authoritarian movements--and hide behind an ideological veneer that has about as much to do with what they're actually about--an id-based will to power--as a cross burning has to do with Christianity. They turn whatever they touch into shit, and if able to attain power, wreak enormous destruction and suffering. They are sociopathic and evil, and must be stopped and destroyed to the extent possible, within the limits of the law, by any means necessary. It's no different from treating a potentially fatal disease, which they are. This stuff needs to be taken seriously.

What most worries (and creeps me out), though, are the followers. They really eat this shit up, like that Birther woman in the Mike Castle town hall, and the crowd that cheered her on. And those crazy CSPAN callers ranting on about the Illuminati and Bilderberg and CFR and neocons and Zionists and the USS Liberty. Is there a Haldol shortage in the US?

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


There is a enough information out in the public arena which shows that (0.00 / 0)
this trend in Washington DC has been going on for quite some time - I'd like to thank Katherine Yurica for her work 'The Despoiling of America' of the yuricareport.com for introducing me to the concepts involved - Dominionism -as well the cast of characters, both religious and political that we should be familiar with; Chris Hedges and his work 'American Fascists The Christian Right and the War on America' has been a great resource as well.

I just ordered and finally got Sharlet's book( on this past Saturday and have  just started it), and already I can tell that he joins the 2 I mentioned above in providing important and specific information that all Americans should take note of.

Big thanks should go to Rachel Maddow for going beyond the affairs  of Sanford and Ensign which merely provided a crack to look into this theocratic government in waiting.

Because that's what it is.

 


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