Obama Quandary Comes Into Sharper Focus: Part One, Political Process

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 16:00


A couple of articles on Obama appeared this week that deserve to be taken very seriously in terms of gauging the newly visible weakness of his politics. Although I have serious disagreements with some details of both of them, their main thrusts are both accurate, they complement one another, and though they reinforce arguments from the left, they are primarily grounded in the very same tradition of pragmatism that Obama himself tries to lay claim to.  

The first, by Michael Lind at Salon, concerns Obama's cult-like faith in neoliberalim, asking, "Can Obama be deprogrammed?".  Given the multiple crises we now face that all have substantial economic components-economic recovery, health care reform, global warming-as well as the historical centrality of economic policy in American politics, it's far to consider this the single most important policy fundamental one could focus on.  Lind points out tellingly that that neoliberalism hasn't delivered in the past, except in terms of transitory illusions, and can't be expected to deliver now.  This contrasts dramatically with the success of New Deal liberalism, Lind point out, which may need updating, but remains much sounder in its fundamentals than neoliberalism ever dreamed of being.

The second, by David Bromwich at Huffington Post, (highlighted by David Mizner in a quick hit) strikes deeply at the question of Obama's process, under the potentially misleading title, "The Character of Barack Obama".For Bromwich is not writing about character so much as he's writing about political process, bringing together matters of temperament, judgment and political philosophy.  These are all things that others have raised before-present company included-but Bromwich has fit them together in a way that seems more than the sum of its parts, even as it says almost nothing about the substance of Obama's challenges or policies.

While Versailles might claim that Lind is arguing from the left, two points would dispute that interpretation.  First, solid supermajorities of the American people support the welfare state spending that's a prime legacy of the New Deal policies he champions.  Second, Lind's argument is empirically driven by looking at realworld performance that ideology-driven neoliberals simply refuse to deal with.  Thus, it's much more accurate to situate Lind at what could be called the "deep center".  Meanwhile, Bromwhich's criticism is simply far too process-focused to sustain any sort of ideological labeling.  Both, in short, could well be embraced by a substantial majority of the American people-as many or more as voted for Obama in the first place.  

To be sure, as a leftist, I would take them considerably further.  But they are sufficiently free of the narrow-minded ideological fetters of Versailles that I'm quite happy to support them both as a reasonable starting point for actually undoing the damage that Obama was elected to clean up. What stands in the way of this is quite simple: the political establishment culture (aka Versailles) and Obama's bizarrely deferential attitude toward it.

Because Lind's thesis is more fully understandable from the brief description already given, I'll begin my discussion with Bromwhich in this first installment, before returning to Lind for a closer look in part two.

Paul Rosenberg :: Obama Quandary Comes Into Sharper Focus: Part One, Political Process
First Bromwhich captures how a relatively scarce potential strength has masked a hidden weakness that's now coming into focus:

One of the strangest facts we know about Obama is that his colleagues and students at the University of Chicago Law School came away from discussions very impressed with his abilities, but not knowing what he thought about many issues. This was not torts or contracts. Obama's subject was Constitutional Law.

He has always had a reputation for being fair-minded -- a strength only attainable by someone who is (to begin with) minded. But the cautiousness of his first six months as president shows a pattern of accommodation that often lands him on the far side of actual prudence.

The subtext here is that it's much easier to be fair-minded if you don't actually have anything substantive that you believe in.   If you don't have any position yourself, then it's much easier to listen to, and accept everyone else's position.  Of course there are limits to how far this can go-as seen by Obama's repeated exclusion of the very progressives whose ranks he initially appears to have come from, and who accurately reflect the base of the Democratic Party-as well as many independents and even Republicans when it comes to bank bailouts, health care reform, and sharply reversing course on Bush's mideast wars, to name just three top issues on which Obama's disconnect has been breathtaking.  This reflexive rejection reflects the next topic Bromwhich touches on:

His instinct is to have all the establishments on his side

Of course, this instinct is all wrong at a point in time when all the establishments stand more or less discredited, but I'll save what I have to say in this more critical vein till the end of this post.  For now, note the plural, which Bromwhich quickly ticks off as

Wall Street, the military, the mainstream media; the most profitable corporations in all but the most signally failing industries; and that movable establishment (which disappears and reconstitutes itself), the quick-take pulse of popular opinion on any given issue.

This is a rather odd list that could well be the subject of an entire post in itself, but it sets up the following simple argument:

to oppose the bankers on the question of bailouts, to oppose the military on drone assassinations, to exhibit non-pliability against the insurance companies and press for a public option in health care, to defy a bare majority of popular opinion on the importance of keeping Guantanamo open -- to have fought at least some of these battles need not have been hazardous for a president who came into office on a wave of revulsion against his opposite.

Indeed, (leaving aside for the moment all questions of moral or political right or wrong) quite the opposite-not to have fought any of these battles both disappoints and deflates his base, leaving him with less power than he has now as a result of failing to engage on any of these fronts.  Most pointedly, he ought to be flooding congressional town halls with supporters of a robust public option, but instead it's the Birthers/teabaggers who are doing so, while he retreats into an ever-thickening haze.

As Bromwhich puts it:

In dealing with some of these issues, Obama has stepped forward and then back. On some, he has not yet taken a first step away from his predecessor.

Surely such minimalism is not "change we can believe in", except to the extent that faith is the evidence of things not seen. This is how I would frame a point that Bromwhich makes a paragraph later:

Alongside Obama's reticence sits a curiously incompatible trait, a certain grandiosity.

Bromwhich's illustration is one I profoundly disagree about-his speaking out on Henry Louis Gates' arrest.  The point is much better made by recalling the sweeping campaign promises of hope and change that have fallen prey to his surprisingly Calvin Coolidge-like reticence.  Nonetheless, Bromwhich hits the point on the nose when he concludes:

Doubtless a certain grandiosity is an aspect of the man. But if it is bad, all things being equal, to appear grandiose and worse to appear timid, it is the worst of all to be grandiose and then timid.

He then proceeds to a related quandary, which might be dubbed "the fourth-quarter quarterback syndrome":

Occasionally Obama seems even better in ad lib discussions than one had expected -- with voters and reporters, and with other politicians. But he has turned out to be far less canny than he needs to be in making the sort of major speech that explains an issue from the ground up....

His characteristic way of handling confusion in the audience is to come back and give good answers to questions. That is very well, but no substitute for an early explanation.

The prime problem in politics, as opposed to football, is that even when successful Obama's style of come-from-behind play sacrifices both policy substance and political initiative relative to what can be achieved by game-defining first-quarter dominance.

Illustrating this point, Bromwhich writes:

On July 30 the New York Times ran a story about a woman who owns a small business and has followed the president from place to place to ask him a question. Is there, she wanted to know, a single government program that has ever done anything right? (She got that knock-down challenge from talk radio.) Obama replied with two examples, Medicare and Veterans Hospitals. The business owner who had chased him down with supreme confidence in her mockery was surprised to hear those two sober examples. Nobody had told her. Then there is the citizen at another town-hall meeting who said: "Keep your government hands off my Medicare."

This is all the more galling, given that I still think George Lakoff was right that Obama has a remarkable natural ability when it comes to framing issues.  It's just that he seems to be incredibly indifferent about using that ability on the front end, where it naturally has the greatest game-defining potential.  Unless, of course, he intentionally doesn't want to define the game for fear of offending someone, or because, like everyone else, he really has no idea precisely what he stands for.

Neatly tying back to the previous point, Bromwhich writes:

Here, Obama's two opposing traits, the caution and the presumption, have joined with results that are deeply unhappy. He arrogates. He does not indicate. And when the argument is well underway, he starts his major explanation as an afterthought.

He then presses on to what I regard as the central problem:

Obama cherishes the ideal of a frictionless transformation of society. It is a wish for aesthetic harmony, which he mistakes for a political goal. Its attainment would be a beautiful thing. But no matter how much he appeals for comity, Obama is certain to give offense to some. Better to choose your times and targets than allow others to force that choice.

His aversion to strife was plain from his conduct in the primaries and the general-election campaign. But the degree of avoidance we have seen could never have been predicted.

Particularly given Obama's training in the methods of Saul Alinsky, as Bromwhich goes on to note.  Indeed, I would argue-much more strongly than Bromwhich-that the only reason Obama seems to have studied Alinsky is to avoid anything within a country mile Star Trek lightyear of his confrontational methods. Bromwhich calls it "foreshortened form", but "symbolic" or "cartoon" might be more accurate than "foreshortened":

Obama's training, one recalls, was in the community-reform methods of Saul Alinsky; and yet he seems to have adapted the relevant ideas in foreshortened form. The Alinsky process of reform, as Jeffrey Stout has pointed out, goes from powerlessness to power in several stages. There is, first, the public recognition of powerlessness; then the airing of injustices, by legitimate polarization and active protest; then proposals of concrete reform; and only at last, power-sharing and reconciliation.

The strange thing about Obama is that he seems to suppose a community can pass directly from the sense of real injustice to a full reconciliation between the powerful and the powerless, without any of the unpleasant intervening collisions. This is a choice of emphasis that suits his temperament.

Instead of "emphasis", I would simply call it what is: denial.

Finally, Bromwhich goes on to argue, Obama has so far failed to recognize the need to define policy and thereby set the agenda:

And, good as Obama is in person, a resonant speaker, an impressive master of details once the details are in, he has not yet explained a single major policy in advance with the accessible clarity Paul Krugman brought to health care simply by listing its four elements: regulation, mandate, subsidy, public option. Such explanations should not have to wait for the intervention of a sympathetic columnist.

Somewhere at the bottom of the missteps of the last few months is a failure to recognize the depth of the popular ignorance a president of the United States confronts on any issue.

From a more realist/leftist perspective, one might also add "a failure to recognize the depth of hegemonic indoctrination a president confronts" when he wants to make change that's opposed by masters of hegemony.  More on this below.

The reason Bromwhich gives is what might be called Obama's desire for symbolic national leadership, of a sort exercised by Israel's President or Britain's Queen, as opposed to their prime ministers:

The party, for years, wanted a leader to assure their unity; they thought Obama was the one. Yet he has made it felt in many ways since becoming president that he would be disappointed to identify himself as leader of his party.

His political fortune will now depend on his readiness to reverse that posture. To take control of his presidency, he must give up the ambition to serve as the national moderator, the pronouncer on everything, the man with the largest portfolio.

Here is where I depart from Bromwhich to the left, and can no longer do so parenthetically.  What's really needed, I would argue, is for Obama to do what Roosevelt did, once it was clear that he would have no partners from the GOP side: He must both lead the party and the nation, and shift the center decisively to the left.  And if he still wants to be bipartisan, then just recall that Lincoln did the exact same thing.

This connects back to two previous points at which I raised a more left/progressive perspective.  First, that this is a time to stand against political establishments, not with them, given their justly earned states of disrepute.  Second, that Obama faces not just ignorance among the citizenry, but hegemonic mythologizing, disinformation and narrative misdirection to the point of demonization.  

The first point should be obvious with respect to the financial sector, but it's also true of the military, despite the absurdly high faith-based confidence the public places in it. The reason is two-fold:  First, the military has been doing things that people really don't like: fighting Bush's wars, kicking out gays, abusing the troops (stop loss, refusing or delaying needed medical treatment for veterans, etc.)  Second, it's quite possible to make major changes in military policy and practice within the framework of repairing deep damage done to it by the Bush Administration.  Not only is this true, it would be relatively easy to sell.

The problem is not that such a confrontation would be difficult to pull off-it wouldn't be, particularly if one were to start with dramatic actions to benefit the common grunt.  The problem is, Obama really has no interest in such confrontation, not just because he's averse to confrontation, but because he appears to genuinely believe-ala Burkean conservative ideology-that those who have substantial institutional power in society ipso facto have a fundamentally legitimate claim to it, and should only be questioned in the most unusual circumstances, and even then most respectfully.

The role of hegemony is much more difficult to get across.  It's like trying to teach fish about water. They can't for the life of them figure out what you're talking about.  But that's precisely why it's so fundamental, so important.  Obama is nothing if not a cerebral wonk.  Sure he can give a passionate speech, but when he does, he does it with a wonkish purpose in mind.  And thus, despite his instinctual abilities to connect with people emotionally and narratively, he remains firmly grounded in the tradition of Enlightenment rationalism that divorces reason not just from emotion, but from the reasoner, and everything that goes with them-not just their emotions, but their life experience, their bodily existence, their place in history and society...everything that makes them specifically who and what they are in their own particularity.

Enlightenment rationalism is the foundation of 18th and 19th Century liberalism-as well as today's neo-liberalism, the subject of part two in this diary set.  The "New Liberalism" born in Britain in the 1870s, which lies at the heart of New Deal Liberalism, is a different creature altogether because it realizes the irreducible importance of material pre-conditions, and thus takes genuine and serious account of the material world, instead of remaining content with clever models of it.  Because it attends to the material world in a way that 18th and 19th Century liberalism does not, New Deal Liberalism-aka social democracy-is much better prepared to grasp the reality of hegemonic struggle.  And this is, in the end, perhaps the most fundamental reason why Obama has lost his way.  Quite simply put, old-style liberalism is simply incapable of recognizing its ideological enemies, even as they stare it right in the face.  


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Here's what I am wondering? (4.00 / 1)
You quote the story from Bromwhich about the woman who chased Obama around to ask if there had ever been a successful government program, and he surprised her with the examples of Medicare and Veterans Hospitals.

What I'm wondering is not why was Obama not already saying that? Rather, why weren't the Democrats (including Obama) already saying that?  Indeed, why haven't they been saying that for the past few decades? I agree that Obama ought to be doing this, and that, when he does it, he is quite skilled at it. Still, I don't see an Obama quandary here, but a Democratic Party quandary. (Or, maybe the Obama quandary is that he is ill equipped to lead us out of this morass.)  There is little in the way of making the positive case among office holders, pundits or even the netroots. (I am talking generally here, and I don't mean to suggest the problem exists equally across these domains.)

I think you point to part of the problem at the end of this post - the neoliberal reaction to New Deal Liberalism. But (and I could be wrong) I find that at best a partial explanation for the elite problem here. For the netroots, Chris</a> touched on this earlier:

Over the past several years, the long-term campaign on which the American left has spent most of its political energy has been to remove Republicans from elected power. To put it another way, the vast majority of progressive activism over the past decade in America has mainly focusing electing Democrats.

I don't have much in the way of answers here. As a small step, I've been looking back recently to how Truman pitched national health insurance and how LBJ pitched the Voting Rights Act.

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question - not why are we (understood very broadly) not doing a great job at making a positive case for what we believe, but how can we do a better job?

Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


Easy ... (0.00 / 0)
What I'm wondering is not why was Obama not already saying that? Rather, why weren't the Democrats (including Obama) already saying that?  Indeed, why haven't they been saying that for the past few decades?

Look at guys like Max Baucus and Ben Nelson .. both those clowns became Democrats because it was the easiest path to power .. and I'd say they are far from alone ... take Evan Bayh for example .. if it wasn't for his father .. do you think Evan Bayh would be a Democrat? .. what ideals of the Democratic Party do any of those three believe in? .. add in the Arkansas Twins(Lincoln and Pryor) .. Kent Conrad .. and a few others .. then you see where the problem is .. these people aren't in it to advance Democratic party ideals .. they are in it for the power and money(post-career .. plus corporate paid junkets)


[ Parent ]
Well, I'm With You On The Larger Question (4.00 / 1)
of the Democratic failure to counter rightwing lies for several decades now.  That's why I keep going on about hegemonic warfare.  And, as I note toward the end of my piece, this failure is something that Bromwhich doesn't deal with at all, which clearly can't be counted out.

My purpose here is to not to write another round of that story all over again, but to try latch on to an apt appraisal of Obama, which can then be integrated into confronting that larger questions. And thus, I think it's a fair first approximation to say, as you do, that "the Obama quandary is that he is ill equipped to lead us out of this morass."

I also agree that the question is "how can we do a better job?"

This diary is trying to get a better handle on what Obama's doing that's counterproductive or insufficient, but the whole point of doing that is precisely to provide us with a better perspective for answering that very question.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I don't believe that he is clueless about his supposed weaknesses (4.00 / 1)
He's much too smart not to realize that he needs to change his tactics IF he isn't getting the results that he desires.  Instead, I think this is a conscious strategy he deploys to serve his corporate masters while portraying himself to the public as trying to represent their best interests.  He jumps into the fights for the public's interests only after the issue has effectively been resolved in big business' favor ... if he jumps in at all for us.  Meanwhile, behind the scenes his scumbag chief of staff has been busy coordinating the political landscape so that obama has political cover while he truly serves the interests of big donors, which is exactly why obama hired him.

There is a lot of twisted logic being deployed by progressives and other democrats becoz they keep trying to make excuses as to why obama isn't living up to his campaign promises.  The answer is very simple:  HE LIED to get elected and has little or no desire to bring about the change that he promised.  That's the obvious answer to all these conundrums concerning obama yet delusion reigns perhaps becoz they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in backing him.  

I can't believe that I'm already feeling this way, but I think we would have been better off with hillary clinton.  Maybe much better off.  

Z
 


They all lie!! (4.00 / 2)
There is a lot of twisted logic being deployed by progressives and other democrats becoz they keep trying to make excuses as to why obama isn't living up to his campaign promises.  The answer is very simple:  HE LIED to get elected and has little or no desire to bring about the change that he promised.

And if you think we'd be much better off with Hillary .. you are kidding yourself .. they are both peas of the same neo-liberal pod


[ Parent ]
Clinton Was Already Committed To Most of This Stuff (4.00 / 3)
I think the most astute Obama supporters knew that this could happen, but figured that with Obama there was a chance for something better, a chance that he'd embrace a wider circle of ideas.

This is not universally true.  Clinton did have more progressive policies staked out in some areas.  But not dramatically more progressive.  And given how her husband had caved on his progressive ideas when he was President, people legitimately questioned how much she really would stand by.

In short, there really wasn't a clear alternative to be had from the big-picture perspective.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I am not a hillary fan whatsoever and I don't care for her husband either ... (0.00 / 0)
... but I think that she would've been a bit more confrontational with the reps than obama is.  Therefore, I think we would've likely gotten a better stimulus bill than what we got off of obama and probably a better bill on climate change.  But, of course, I don't know for sure ... no one does.  It's just an indication of how disappointed I am in obama becoz I highly preferred him to hillary in the primary election.

Sure, they all lie to some extent, but when you run on change and instead you work to maintain the status quo that is destroying this country and produce little discernible change, then I think we should be VERY disappointed.  This was his platform, this is what he ran on.  And I don't think we should just accept the cynical mantras like "they all do it" becoz they don't all "have to do it".  He in particular did not "have to do it" becoz he had a lot of the public behind the change that he said that he wanted to effectuate and also majorities in the senate and house.  He has made almost zero effort to capitalize on any of those advantages.

Z


[ Parent ]
When I watch Hillary maneuvering around the Honduran coup, (4.00 / 2)
I'm inclined to think that she not only serves the usual masters, but thinks of herself as one them as well. How that would be any better than what we've got is, frankly, beyond me.

[ Parent ]
I can understand why you guys feel that way ... (0.00 / 0)
... and you may be right.  Who knows?  I can't stand either clinton. I think they ... bill in particular obviously ... have done a ton of damage to the democrat party.  That being said, I can't imagine her doing anything worse than he has so far.

Z


[ Parent ]
Many liberals have seen this... (4.00 / 2)
seeming fetish of Obama for the Establishment even back when he ran.  That his rhetoric was inconsistent with the actions he took.

Remember how Bill Clinton could explain the issues?  He groomed himself for the job, knew where he stood, and could tell you why.  Obama is a novice in comparison.  Perhaps all the talk about experience was valid, after all.

Obama does not know how to fight.  Or he does not want to.  Perhaps the community organizing stint was just to pad a resume.  He certainly does not seem to have learned from it or to use the tactics.  Yes, he was sponsored by bog donors until he caught a viral wave, and the money took care of the rest.  He did great in caucus states, but not so well in the big primary states.  Maybe it all was illusion.

In any event, until he uses his alleged prowess to take on power, to mobilize the people, he will more and more be seen  as a corporate man, deferring to power, and creating the very cynicism about government that his slogans said he wasn't.

People compare him to Reagan.  But perhaps the comparison to Coolidge is more apt.  His capital wanes and he could have created more than a public option, but single payer with the lauds he received as politician extraordinaire.

Hopefully, he will show us what he does believe, and it will not be the status quo.


I've stated it before .. (4.00 / 2)
Obama does not know how to fight.  Or he does not want to.  Perhaps the community organizing stint was just to pad a resume.  He certainly does not seem to have learned from it or to use the tactics.

but i'll state it again .. and this is just MHO ... the feeling I got from Obama's book(in conjunction with his campaign rhetoric) is this .. deep down .. he wants everyone to like him .. he really does think he can get everyone to sing Kumbaya .. he is very slow to take up a battle .. he tries to bend over backwards to compromise .. and hopefully let everyone look good .. what will it take for Obama to move to the left? .. I really don't know .. it won't happen while Rahmbo is whispering in his ear


[ Parent ]
True (4.00 / 3)
Too damn needy.

But, then, most politicians have that problem.  Low self-esteem.  Way too much need for the approval of others.  How many of them could make it in the indy music world?  Not one in thousand.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Give me that old time rock and roll (4.00 / 2)
Music is something of its own reward, even in a place where you have to play behind chicken wire to keep from being hit by thrown beer bottles. Politics not so much. When you're on the campaign trail -- kissing babies, sucking up to corporate cane toads, and eating chitlins and pizza and rubber chicken -- I'd have to say the the journey is definitely not the reward. Then you take the oath of office and it just gets worse.

It's enough to make a communist out of anybody who tries it. Anybody honest, that is.


[ Parent ]
Yes, and I think the experience factor... (0.00 / 0)
cannot be overstated.  Again, Clinton was a far superior politician in my book, and could riff on any subject and make it understandable.  Clinton may have triangulated, but I think he was more certain of who he was, and it showed.  Obama has a lot of catching up to do in this regard.

Like the diary indicates, Obama seems not to have his own sense of himself.  Maybe it requires more time, or at least time in the crucible, something he never really faced in his rapid ascendancy.  


[ Parent ]
It's not about the person (0.00 / 0)
When did Bill Clinton ever "take on power [or] mobilize the people"? In what sense in there a difference between how much he, as opposed to Obama, was a "corporate man"? They both acted in similar ways, because the balance of power in the party and in DC have not changed much.  

I don't know what you mean about Clinton's ability to explain the issues, but I know he rarely made the case for why government can do good, for why policies like Social Security or Medicare or the VA show the possibilities of government. In that sense, he was, like Obama, much like the rest of his party.  To the extent that Clinton excelled politically, it was in getting elected (personally, not necessarily helping at the House or Senate levels) and in playing defense at some moments when it really mattered (the budget battle.)


Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


[ Parent ]
I disagree (4.00 / 1)
He passed a tax increase that not one Republican supported, and it may have cost him Congress.

He shut down the government and made it so the Republicans got the blame.

He fought more investigations for trivialities than anyone ever, and beat them all back, including impeachment.

And for most of his presidency, he had a Republican Congress under Gingrich.

He beat an incumbent president, no small task.

He had his faults, for sure, but to me, as a politician, he was dominant with unmatched skills of communication.

Look at his approval rating when he left office.  If Obama does as well, especially if he is attacked the way Clinton was, then he will have achieved something.  


[ Parent ]
With the possible exception of the tax increase (4.00 / 2)
you are talking about Clinton's ability to win political battles. I wasn't talking about whether Clinton is a good politician - he is, and so is Obama. (Disagree with the latter if you want, I don't care one way or the other.) I don't think Paul was talking about that either.

I wasn't talking about Clinton's ability to communicate in general - I was talking about whether he could make a positive case for government and the Democratic party.

You seem to be concerned with personal achievement by a President. I'm not.  

Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


[ Parent ]
60's vs. 70's liberalism (4.00 / 1)
One thing that I've found is that there's a curious disconnect between what I call 60's vs. 70's liberals, i.e. liberals who came of age in the 60's vs. ones who came of age in the 70's.

Superficially, they are more alike than different, in generally supporting the Democratic party and believing in the same broad values and goals. But look beneath the surface, and I find the former to be much more passionate, engaged, honest, reality-based, and willing to endure hardship, sacrifice and conflict, no matter how painful, and the latter to be more about appearances than genuine committment, compromise than conflict, "pragmatism" than progressivism, and in many ways condescending and even contemptuous towards the former, as if they were their crazy parents and older siblings who might have had their heart in the right place, but seriously need to "get real".

The 60's generation was more about committment and passion and conflict, and the 70's more about cynical accomodation, with perhaps some reform at the margins, to the extent that it was friction-free. Not that the former wasn't cynical, but cynical about the establishment, not the possibility and need for change, which typifies the latter's cynicism, to me.

And, of course, this being just a generalization, there were clearly 70's-style cynics in the 60's, and 60's-style liberals in the 70's and beyond (and this site's founders show). I don't mean to create an absolute black and white division between the two generations (and, of course, the spirit of 60's liberalism was born decades if not over a century before it, e.g. abolitionists, suffragettes, socialists, progressives, unions, New Deal liberalism).

But having grown up in the 70's, with the shadow of the 60's evident everywhere, I could sense even then that the sincerity and dedication of 60's liberalism was being taken over and transformed by its pale, and even fake, kid brother, who proceeded to co-opt it and eviscerate it of its essense. It's sort of like the real Woodstock of '69, vs. the corporate one of 30 years later, on a much more serious stage (so to speak). I.e. political, cultural and social upheavel for the purpose of moving society forward, rather than for self-gratification.

And I see Obama as a 70's-style liberal, who's more about appearances than substance, be it out of a lack of conviction, a lack of courage, a lack of identity, or all three. I think that he wants to think of himself as a real (i.e. 60's) liberal, but just doesn't have the conviction and courage. Something's just not there, that needs to be there, that we'd hoped was there (even as we say sign after sign that it wasn't). So we got the illusion or approximation of it instead, and it's what we have to work with, for now.

Or, Yeat's Second Coming perfectly illustrated:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Obvious, yes, but none the worse off for it.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


I saw a documentary on drugs... (4.00 / 1)
some time ago.  The 60's was about tuning in and expanding the mind.  By the 70's it was just about getting blasted and tuning out.  The purpose had changed.

The American Experience did a show that exemplifies a similar type of transformation that occurred in San Francisco, called "The Summer of Love."  

Here's the link:  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/l...  


[ Parent ]
Well Yeah (0.00 / 0)
There's a great deal of truth to that.

Some of it was just as simple as younger siblings seeing their older brothers and sisters getting the shit beat our of them by cops, and saying, "No way I'm going to be that stupid."  Of course, such thoughts were first hatched when they were pre-teens, and could not possibly foresee how such thinking might twist or diminsh their lives in the long run.

Thinking back to how I thought at that age, I can't be certain I wouldn't have thought the same thing.

That I find truly scary.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Some real accuracy to this (0.00 / 0)
There was clearly a shift from the 1960s to the late 60s, 70s.  Part of this was a shift away from a focus on the strategies of the civil rights movement in the South, and the split and working-class focus of the Black Power movement that emerged.  

The 1970s moved into what I call a "personalist" direction, increasingly focusing on strategies like free schools and communes focused on an odd kind of self-transformative politics.  Even participation in the anti-vietnam protests may fit more into this, in that it rarely achieved focused strategic efforts or planning.

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Paul, a question for you, somewhat OT (0.00 / 0)
Partly due to your asking people here how they planned to celebrate the 4th of July, and partly out of my own curiosity, I've been doing a bit of studying on the American Revolution era lately. And I'm finding many of the ideological and political conflicts and challenges we see today to have been present at that time, where I think many of them were actually born, in their uniquely American form (e.g. Jeffersonian libertarianism vs. Hamiltonian statism).

And I'm wondering, who among the founders and framers do you view as being closest to your conception of late 19th century and New Deal social democratic liberalism? Jefferson? Paine? Franklin? Hamilton? Madison? I'm guessing none, that these were all men who were constrained by their backgrounds and time to not be able to see the world the way that modern liberals see it. But I'm just curious.

Myself, I'm finding myself curiously drawing closest to Hamilton, despite his occasionally nutty ideas (like a president nee monarch for life, support for the Alien and Sedition Acts, and calling for war with France), and his serious flaws in personal judgement, because, while he's clearly the founder of the American economic system that has accomplished so much good and bad, and thus an obvious patron saint for neoliberals and economic conservatives and libertarians, unlike these types, he saw the essential need for strong regulation and oversight, pushed strongly for it, and was extremely ethical (as far as I know) in his official dealings.

Jefferson, on the other hand, despite being most peoples' favorite founder, strikes me as too much of an elitist pretending to be a populist, with a strong tendency towards Ron Paul-style radical libertarianism (but at the same time, ironically, populist demagoguery, which Jackson later actualized). My respect for Hamilton is less about some of his specific ideas and policies, than for his strong belief not only in progress, but in making it as accessible as possible for everyone (he was one of the earliest abolitionists), and as fair and ethical as possible.

I.e. he strikes me as having been a real "moderate", of the principled kind who tried to strike a healthy and moral balance between society's classes, as opposed to the faux kind that Obama and his DLC buddies represent.

These thoughts of mine on this are all preliminacy, of course. Just wondering what your take is on these things. The history of US political and economic thinking and action goes all the way back to its founding (and of course even prior to it).

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


An Impossible Task (4.00 / 1)
Their world was just too different from ours to make much sense of in these terms.  I think it's no accident that Hamilton and the other federalists took up the Alien and Sedition Acts, and it's hard to set that aside, regardless of how we might project their other stances back then into our world today, or into other intermediate periods.

But I will say that Paine, Franklin and Jefferson all felt the need to provide for the broad prosperity of the people.  Jefferson, as a Southern plantation owner, was the furthest removed from the sort of material progress you identify Hamilton with.  Franklin, an inventor, and Paine, a working class man, were much more in tune with the advantages of creating a vital progressive economy, and thus encompassed the best of Jefferson's virtues on one side along with Hamilton's on the other.  

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Interestingly...I also just watched... (0.00 / 0)
another episode of the American Experience about Hamilton, and see him in a much different light as a Founding Father who helped forge the nation and lay the ground for prosperity by unifying the states and dealing with the debt.  

Here is that link for anyone interested:  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/h...


[ Parent ]
According to the credits... (0.00 / 0)
© 2007 Twin Cities Public Television, Inc. and WGBH Educational Foundation

I thought it was a very good program.


[ Parent ]
The same corporate sponsors and non-profit foundations (4.00 / 1)
who sponsor everything else that PBS puts on--along with the public and government, neither of whom, I assume, get a say as to what gets produced and broadcast--so clearly, one has to be on watch for deliberate and inadvertant bias.

After all, PBS hosts the establishment-adoring Charlie Rose show, the centrist News Hour and Washington Week in Review, the all over the ideological map McLaughlin Group (crazies, lefties and centrists), the left-leaning NOW and Bill Moyers Report, etc. It's a mixed bag, which as with anything else has to be viewed with a critical mind, but which is mostly ok, if you can weed out the fluff and crap (not everyone can, of course).

Overall, though, one thing that I'm finding, after reading and viewing various books and documentaries on the revolutionary era, is that there's a tendency to engage in uncritical idol worship and myth-reinforcing, in a "Greatest Generation" sense, and not look beneath the surface to see the always more complex and often less inspiring nuances.

Some are better than others at acknowledging and discussing such things, e.g. Jefferson's hypocrisy on slavery, Henry's virulent racism, the clearly mercantilist and not libertarian impetus for the rebellion, etc.--but also Washington's human side, such as his temper, and, more substantively, his freeing most of his slaves upon his death.

Anyway, caveat emptor, as always.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


[ Parent ]
Different facets of each: (4.00 / 1)
Hamilton: Central Bank
Jefferson: Louisiana Purchase
Franklin: Post Office,

The modern welfare system of sending people checks and giving them jobs fills the same function as giving people free land in the agrarian system -- land being the means of production and making a living.

By that standard the great westward expansion was a give-a-way that government cannot match in today's crowded world.

The Welfare State has a long and storied pedigree.


[ Parent ]
Not exactly (0.00 / 0)
Jefferson is best remembered for the Declaration of Independance and Louisiana Purchase, of course. But I was referring to the Jefferson between these two bookmarks, who represented the establishment's libertarian "left" wing at the time, to Hamilton's pro-business "right" wing (I grossly oversimplify, of course). In addition to founding what became the Democratic party, it was he who first promoted what Calhoun and others would later champion as "states' rights" and the theory of Nullification--arguably helping to bring about the Civil War--and is the patron saint of latter-day small government libertarians. There are aspects of Jefferson that appeal to libertarians, modern liberals, and even neoliberals. Quite an enigma, that TJ.

Hamilton basically created the American economic system that led to the economic expansion and excesses (for both good and ill) of the 19th and 20th centuries, based on centrally-managed finance, commerce, regulation and taxation. He helped found (more ideologically than structurally) what would eventually and indirectly become the modern Republican party (well, not today's GOP--he wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot musket). As well as the coast guard, customs service, Bank of NY, NY Post (before it went wingnut), and so on. An undeniable genius--like Jefferson--even if both of their ideas and works ended up leading to ill effects both then and over time.

Franklin I cannot think of a single significant bad thing to say about. Ok, he was a bit harsh on his son. And he could have been more careful about his weight.

And there will always be things of value that the government can give away or sell, like the airways, space exploration charters, carbon futures, etc.--or, well, the future structure of our health care system. The key is to do it well and for the general good, and not for short-term corporate gain. None of these founders would have been for anything but that.

Also, definitionally, there's nothing wrong with the word "welfare", and everything right with it. Especially when qualified with the word "general".

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


[ Parent ]
No "quandry" on illegal detention. It's cut and dried unconstitutional. (4.00 / 1)
Obama's legal training makes him one of the few people in the world with absolutely no excuses on this issue. Obama is a Constitutional Law professor. Obama knows he is violating both the US Constitution and the Geneva Conventions.

Obama chose to make himself a war criminal to ensure the Bush / Cheney White House could not be prosecuted as war criminals. I don't care if he's a traitor or a spineless idiot that wilted at the first bark of a Bush holdover. I'm just as sick of cowardly Dems as I am the right wing war criminals.


Obama taught some seminars (4.00 / 1)
Obama taught some seminars on constitutional law as an adjunct faculty member.  He was not a professor of constitutional law.

And if so it wouldn't mean much:  John Yoo is currently teaching constitutional law at Berkeley and his academic status is higher than Obama's was (in an organizational sense that is, not an intellectual sense).

sPh


[ Parent ]
Yes, But Yoo Is Batshit Crazy (4.00 / 3)
Obama's just incredibly naive.

p.s.  I thought he was an adjunct professor, which makes "professor of constitutional law" close enough for jazz.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Community organizing in Chicago (4.00 / 1)
Essentially the only community organizer who ever accomplished anything in Chicago from scratch was Sinclar Lewis.  And he did that by writing an international best-selling novel that hit home to 10s of millions around the world at exactly the right time, then he skipping town.  

Every other community organizer who has ever accomplished anything in Chicago has done so by coming to the realization that he and his group have to cut a deal with the Machine and its secular shadow.  I have known many such people and many efforts over the years, and studied even more, and that is where they all end up.  Many of the successful organizers are then absorbed by the Machine; most of the rest become academics or end up working at Jewel.  

I think now, and thought during that primaries, that people didn't realize both this and that most South Siders are conservatives.  Obama compromised with the Machine early and also absorbed the conservative ethos of his surroundings.  I still worked quite hard for him, but I wasn't expecting miracles.

Admittedly I have been surprised by the embrace of the Cheney theory of government - I really didn't see that one coming and don't know where it came from.

sPh


That's the whole point of community organizing (4.00 / 1)
And Lewis accomplished little or nothing, as I understand it, for the poor people he wanted to help.  

Whether Alinsky's Back of the Yards was as powerful and important as he sold it is something that I'm interested in looking at more carefully.  In fact, it doesn't seem to me like it was.  It was important in the unionization of the meatpacking industry under John L. Lewis.

Organizing is always the "art of the possible."


--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
The establishment of the FDA (4.00 / 1)
> And Lewis accomplished little or nothing, as
> I understand it, for the poor people he wanted to help.  

In terms of house-to-house organizing, no.  In terms of getting the Pure Food & Drug Act passed, which made a tremendous difference in the lives of millions, yes.  That's part of my point.  Read Oil for a much more cynical look at the concept of community organizing.

sPh


[ Parent ]
Ahem! (4.00 / 1)
I believe you two gentleman are engaged in a case of mistaken identity.  The gentleman you are actually referring to is Upton Sinclair.

Alas, it's all too easy to confuse the various partners in Upton, Sinclair, Lewis & Clark.  

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I thought he had the wrong Lewis (4.00 / 1)
I made that mistake myself and you corrected me earlier. . . .  

He got the FDA passed--because he helped those with influence to see that their food was crappy.  Which indirectly helped many.  But the folks in the BOY still had trouble buying food and were paid crap.  That's not organizing.  That's helping priviliged people see that they needed to get the scum killing cows to clean their knives first.  

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Yes, But (4.00 / 1)
Sinclair wasn't trying to get the FDA established.  His primary concern was the meatworkers, not the consumers.

His famous quote in this regard was (speaking of his readers), "I aimed for their hearts, but I hit their stomachs."

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Right (4.00 / 1)
Exactly my point.  He failed at what he was trying to do.

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)

[ Parent ]
He Failed At A Lot Of Things (4.00 / 1)
Like when he tried to read the First Amendment aloud at Liberty Hill here in San Pedro.

Didn't even get halfway through it before he was arrested!

BTW, the play he wrote coming out of his experience getting arrested, "Singing Jailbirds," has recently been turned into a musical.  It had its premier this past season with a local San Pedro theater company.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Aruugh! And I have the book sitting just to my right (4.00 / 1)
> I believe you two gentleman are engaged in a
> case of mistaken identity.  The gentleman you
> are actually referring to is Upton Sinclair.

Thanks.  And the worst part is I have Oil sitting within site of where I am typing this.

sPh


[ Parent ]
Site => sight (0.00 / 0)
Site => sight

Time to go to bed I think.

sPh


[ Parent ]
Cite! (4.00 / 1)
But your problem wasn't just your sight, or where the book was sited.  It's how the author was cited.

Or rather, not.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Hmmm, and it's quandary, not quandry (0.00 / 0)
Obama has disappointed many on the left, but I think that many of us are still under the spell of the Bush era, in which the president made many stubborn stands and would not yield, so we half expect Obama to do the same. It's amazing to me that the rightwing rallying right now sees him as a dictator, ruling by fiat when in fact he is a consummate democrat, small d, waiting on Congress. I don't think he's made too many false moves, when the whole picture is taken into consideration. If Obama came out with guns blazing on criminal pursuit, for example, of the criminals in Bush, the Republicans would have been even more shameless in branding him a weak president, weakening American, and on top of that an angry racist white-hater.

Now because of his moderation, when they make these claims they look really like monkeys. This is Obama's way of the cool, and it might, in the long run work to inaugurate some progressive goals. After all, for all of Clinton's idealism and political skills, did he accomplish lasting improvements on the legal, social and political front? Why wasn't he wise enough to spend his surplus on progressive undertakings, rather than leaving it for the conservative Republicans to raid and put in Jack Abramoff's et al. pockets?

I am glad at least that he's not being too timid to spend.


That's Silly! (4.00 / 3)
I think that many of us are still under the spell of the Bush era, in which the president made many stubborn stands and would not yield, so we half expect Obama to do the same.

Obama told us he admired Reagan.  He also said he believed in reaching for consensus.  Reagan bargained hard, but regularly compromised when he felt he'd gotten what he could.  And, oh yes, he told us he was not an ideologue (another point of difference from Bush). We simply expected to Obama to be somewhere in the Reagan ballpark--nowhere near the ideologue that Reagan was, but hanging in for what he knew was the necessary core.  And, of course, we expected him to be primarily reality-based--hanging onto a core of what works.  Instead, we find that his definition of "pragmatism" has everything to do with political process, and nothing to do with what works in the real world.

If Obama came out with guns blazing on criminal pursuit, for example, of the criminals in Bush, the Republicans would have been even more shameless in branding him a weak president, weakening American, and on top of that an angry racist white-hater.

If he'd appointed Patrick Fitzgerald as Special Prosecutor, and handed it all over to him, then not so much.


"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
He got out of organizing (4.00 / 3)
in large part, as I understand it, because he didn't like the confrontational approach.  

A core question, as you repeatedly noted during the election, is how much he really buys the old "progressive" desire for everyone to get along.  

And the question now is what it will take for him to realize that it is impossible or, more importantly, to act out of this realization.  

These are not the only issues as you note above.  But key.  

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


"Getting Along", Obama-style (0.00 / 0)
One more comment. and I'm done. No one here sees that Obama's strategy -- and it's hard to say it hasn't worked -- is to turn the Republicans into irrational and irrelevant foamers at the mouth by making visible efforts to "be bipartisan" -- When they spit in his face, then he has a much freer hand. That happened with the stimulus, for example, and I feel fairly certain that's the constant call to 'bipartisanship' over healthcare. He has also done what Clinton did not, which is to draw the Republicans closer to the fringies and Limbaugh publicly. I was totally unaware of Rush Limbaugh until the 1994 midterms, when the NYT wrote a front page article on how he was inciting the masses to hatred of everything Clinton did and was about to do. Now it's so public, I wonder if it may have rendered these guys somewhat less powerful for not being underground creeps.  

[ Parent ]
Where's The Payoff, Then? (0.00 / 0)
The only thing missing from your scenario is the part where Obama gets his big score.

D'oh!

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
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