Obama, Progressives, and the Question of A Successful Presidency

by: Mike Lux

Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 15:13


In a post on May 28th called A Successful Presidency, I wrote about the last few failed Presidents (LBJ, Ford, Carter, George H.W. Bush) before this last one, George W. Bush, who is arguably one of the two worst ever. After discussing these four, all of whom faced strong primary challengers from their disgruntled base, I wrote:

What happened in every one of these cases was that the President started with a lot of goodwill and support from the general public, but when they ran into trouble later in their term, the base turned on them, and once that happened, it was impossible to contain the damage. The reason for this is simple: your base is who fights for you and defends you when you are in political trouble, and if they aren't backing your play, you get cut to the bone- the damage goes deep. Trouble comes to every President, but you can survive it if you have troops on the ground who keep defending you and fighting your battles for you.

I raise this now because trouble has clearly come to this President; the economy is not getting better for most regular folks anytime soon, health care is in the balance, the Obama approval ratings keep dropping. I believe that the key to Obama's success at this fundamentally critical juncture is whether the President can get his base excited about him again, get them engaged in fighting by his side on the tough battles ahead. Health care reform will not pass without intense Democratic and progressive activism. Neither will the energy bill stuck in the Senate, or the banking regulations bill waiting for committee action in the fall, or the immigration fight next year.

More on the flip.

Mike Lux :: Obama, Progressives, and the Question of A Successful Presidency
Obama's re-election itself is the same way. You know those four Presidents I mentioned above who had tough primaries against candidates from their base, and then lost the general election? Those examples are part of a much larger trend in American history. In fact, since 1900, there have been 14 incumbents (including the Vice Presidents who took over for Presidents who had died) who have won re-election and not a single one faced a primary challenge. Meanwhile, there have been six incumbent Presidents who did not win re-election, only one of which (Hoover, in the midst of the Great Depression) went without a strong primary challenge.

Did primary challenges cause the incumbents to lose in the general? I think that would be an overstatement, but what those challenges did reflect was an unhappiness rising up from the party's base for Presidents in shaky political circumstances. And I'll add one more point to this analysis: George W. Bush had a lot of rocky moments in his first term, was not in great shape politically in 2004, but his passionate base carried him to victory. Bill Clinton was in huge political trouble in 1995, but his base stayed with him, and he survived his troubles and became all the stronger. Reagan had a terrible midterm in 1982, and a very weak approval rating through 1983, but his base stayed with him, and as the economy came back in 1983, he not only survived but won a landslide victory.

A story from the Clinton years, from the toughest, most divisive days of the NAFTA fight. I (thankfully) wasn't forced to work on NAFTA, but I was still talking to union folks every day about health care and other issues, and I knew the damage the fight was doing to our relationships.

We came up with the idea of getting the President to do a dinner and reception one night at the White House with labor leaders, all the union Presidents in the AFL-CIO, even the one who had been the toughest on us rhetorically during the NAFTA fight.

Clinton gave an amazing speech that night, basically saying that he knew we (him and the labor movement) would never agree on the fight, he knew how tough and divisive the battle was getting and how raw the emotions were, but that he wanted everyone to know that the White House was still their house, that they would always be welcome in it as long as he was resident, that he would always listen to them even when he disagreed, and that he would do everything in his power to help them on other issues. Then he stayed talking with people one on one and in small groups late into the night.

Did that solve all of our problems with labor rank and file in the health care debate, or the 1994 elections? No, of course not. But labor leaders also did not encourage Dick Gephardt to run in a primary against Clinton when he was at his weakest point in 1995, as many unions encouraged Ted Kennedy to take on Jimmy Carter in 1980. And they fought like tigers for him in the 1996 election, and in the impeachment fight, and most of Clinton's other big issue fights. That tough, awful NAFTA fight didn't break the bond between Clinton and labor. This is how a White House should operate with its progressive allies, not just labor but the broader progressive community as well.

The reason Bill Clinton did not have a primary fight in 1996 in spite of his being more of a moderate President in a tough political environment, and the reason he did not get deserted in the impeachment fight in spite of so many Democrats being appalled by the stupidity of his affair with Lewinsky, was because we always worked closely and respectfully with progressives, even when we disagreed. Contrast what Clinton did with labor leaders even as they were bitterly disagreeing with the White House, with the unnamed White House staffer who attacked the progressives who are actually fighting for the Obama health plan as "left of the left".

Now, fortunately, this attitude clearly doesn't permeate the White House in general. Valerie Jarrett, who welcomed progressives to the table when I worked in the Obama/Biden transition, happily accepted an invitation to Netroots Nation last weekend, and answered all questions, even the toughest, with a warm and welcoming attitude. Her entire team at the White House, especially Mike Strautmanis and Cecilia Munoz, does a great job of welcoming ideas and even dissent.

One of the reasons the unnamed staffers' quote generated so much attention and anger among progressives, though, is that it was reminiscent of the arrogance the Obama team showed throughout the campaign. Strautmanis was the only senior campaign staffer I knew who seemed to care at all about progressive outreach during the general election, and it wasn't his job (he was doing congressional liaison work). In fact the campaign publicly discouraged their donors from giving to outside progressive groups. And it did not go unnoticed that the last major caucus the President met with in the House was the Progressive Caucus, or that outreach to bloggers and progressive media has been slower and lesser than to a lot of conservative media folks.

The other key problem is the lack of passion Obama and his White House seem to bring to fighting for what matters to progressives. The tap dance they've been doing on whether Obama not just supports, but will fight for, a public option has been going on since the transition, and it's only one of many policies they are determined not to commit too much to. The unwillingness to pick fights and go toe-to-toe with insurers, drug companies, Wall Street, and other special interests is making the progressive community a lot less willing to pick fights for them.

You see the warning signs everywhere, from Paul Krugman's columns to Bill Maher monologues to the dropping numbers from Democrats in the latest DailyKos poll. But what worries me the most is the hard-core Obama people I know, the ones who were most excited about him during the campaign who are growing so disillusioned.

One question going forward is which strategy prevails in this White House- the more open and welcoming Jarrett/Strautmanis strategy, or the angry, arrogant strategy of the anonymous source trashing the left-of-the-left in The Washington Post the other day. More fundamentally, though, is this essential strategy question: will this White House choose to fight for things, such as the public option, that the base actually cares about, that makes us want to fight for Obama in return?

The answers to those questions will have an enormous amount to do with whether there is grassroots passion to push through health care reform and other major issues, whether or not there will be a destructive primary fight in 2012, whether or not Obama gets much activist help weathering the tough days ahead on the economy, and most important of all, whether his Presidency is judged a success by history. I have hope that he will come back from these troubles, because many Presidents have, and he is a good and smart man. But I'm starting to get nervous.


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Obama needs to make up his mind (4.00 / 13)
about two things. One, whether he wants to govern from the right, center-right, center, center-left or left, in terms of policy. And two, who constitutes his core base, the people without whom he cannot win and whose policy goals his goals most align with. And then he needs to actually govern from that place, in terms of policy and politics, instead of continuing his post-partisan nonsense that has yielded mostly wishy-washy policy that pleases no one and accomplishes far less than it can and needs to, policy-wise and politically. Otherwise, he won't know who or what he's fighting for, what he's really trying to accomplish, and will be a failed president, policy-wise and politically.

I happen to believe that that place is either the left, or at least the center-left, and that he has to abandon his direct efforts to appeal to the right, center-right, and even center, except by way of selling his left or center-left policies in a way that could appeal to them--the way that his political "hero" Reagan did, but from the opposite direction (of course, Reagan never appealed to the left and barely appealed to the center-left, but he did appeal to the center, and Obama needs to adapt his expectations of appealing to the right, center-right and center similarly).

Enough with this pathological fear of making enemies or upsetting anyone (except, ironically, among his strongest potential and actual supporters), or trying to forge "New Way" solutions that appeal to everyone. Can't be done, not worth persuing. You pick an ideological policy core and core constituency, and then you go with these full-blast. Sure, watch your flank and rear, just don't make that the focus of your efforts.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


He made up his mind to govern from the right long ago. (0.00 / 0)
There really is no serious debate that Obama is a member of the hard right (it's not for nothing that he had such glowing praise for traitor Ronald Reagan).  There's denial, of course, from people who don't find the truth at all pleasant, but that can't alter the truth of things.  Obama never was and never will be a left-winger.  He treats us as though we are the enemy because, as far as he is concerned, we are the enemy.  Therefore, we must treat him the same way.

This isn't rocket science.  It's politics.  In politics, you don't waste time and energy holding out hope that people who will never work with you and who will always work against you will suddenly do a 180° turn and transform into willing, trusted partners.  Obama refuses to learn this lesson about the Republicans, yet he does nothing but bend over backwards to try to placate them - his only true ideological allies.  And he's going to be a one-term dictator, if even that, because I can pretty much guarantee that Democrats will lose the House next year.  The GOP will not hesitate to drag out Tony Rezko and impeach Obama.



[ Parent ]
Wow, even I won't go this far (0.00 / 0)
I don't believe that Obama is "hard right". That would mean anti-choice, anti-civil rights, pro-small government, etc. Obama is not these things. Rather, Obama is a corporatist centrist Democrat with some left of center views on some issues, and some right of center views on others. But basically, he's about being in the center, and aligning himself with rich and powerful interests, whatever his flowery rhetoric says (that is clearly intended to co-opt the credulous segment of the left and center that only got into politics recently, and perhaps also whatever part of himself still feels the vain need to view himself as a leftie).

Like the Clintons, he probably started out idealistic and on the left, but gradually drifted towards the center when he realized that that's where power lies, and that's where deals are most easily struck and political careers most easily advanced. He went for what was easy, not what was right. And still does. This is who he is.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
What's the difference between overtly and covertly hard right? (0.00 / 0)
A fascist, and I think you'd find it increasingly difficult to argue with this, is someone who is hard right.  Being nominally in favor of legal abortion is small potatoes compared to his other positions (pro-torture in protecting those who ordered and carried it out, anti-government - his department appointees read like a list of Bush era corporate flunkies ... see Ken Salazar as but one of many examples ... , imperial secrecy, and his actions on expanding warrantless spying on Americans, and so on).  Don't kid yourself.  Being nominally less extreme on one or two comparatively minor issues does not mean Obama isn't a member of the hard right.  He is every bit as much a right-wing fascist as Bush and Cheney and the rest of the savage beasts polluting government are.



[ Parent ]
I predicted this disillusionment last year. (4.00 / 4)
It was to be expected. He telegraphed this last year and people didn't notice. How they didn't notice is a mystery.

Crazy.


You predicted people would become disillusioned with someone they idolized beyond all reason? (4.00 / 2)
I'm impressed.

[ Parent ]
Why is that strange? (4.00 / 4)
When someone is on a pedestal it generally means people are not looking at them very clearly.

When a corporate centrist is being worshipped by people who self-identify as progressives, you know that relationship is not going to last.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Isn't it the truth? (0.00 / 0)
While the hagiography goes on relatively unabated over at Daily Kos (he's not backing off from the public option, he's just being his brilliant soft-spoken non-confrontational post-partisan self!), it's becoming clearer and clearer every day that Obama is:

Not ideologically very progressive. Beyond the pretty words and lip service, he just isn't that into left-wing policies and ideas.

Not ideological, period, preferring instead to float about in the world of ideas and policies without having to actually align himself with one (even non-dogmatically) or pin himself down to it, thus being able to shift from this or that idea or policy as suits him politically.

Most aligned not with ideas and policies and the movements that support them, but with political factions, in his case corporatist Dems and Repubs, and their corporate backers, because they are where the power and money in this country lie, and they are the ones who make or break political careers most easily. And Obama is all about what's easy, not what's right. (Sure, the campaign wasn't easy, but he made it a lot easier for himself by pretending to be a progressive when he knew that he wasn't one.)

An opportunist, not a transformer, who is about political more than policy success, consensus and compromise, not confrontation and conflict, appearances over reality.

Someone through whom progressives could nvertheless push through progressive transformation, I believe, precisely because he's so pliable, uncommitted and non-confrontational. Just because he's aligned with corporatists doesn't mean that he'll always be so. They helped him get to where he is, but if he decides that his political future depends on the support of the left more than that of corporatists, he'll bolt. And the fight over health care reform, which is basically between corporatist Dems and Repubs and the insurers and drug companies and other who bankroll them, and progressive Dems, will be a first major test of this theory (of mine). He is a cipher, and we've got to try to make that work for us now.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Keep singing it Mike (4.00 / 5)
Hopefully someone is listening.  

The easiest way to mollify (4.00 / 2)
progressives, at least temporarily, would be to put pressure on conservative Democratic Senators. Of course that would require them to want to put pressure on conservative Democratic Senators.

If and when progressives start seeing stories about Rahm pressuring progressives in the House....


The problem is... (4.00 / 1)
What leverage does the white house have with these conservative senators from red states?  Not a lot... They don't owe him anything, really, and they have millions on their own to finance campaigns outside the DSCC...

I know that there are other ways to pressure, but even Republicans have had a hard time corralling all their senators when necessary...

Still, there's not much of an attempt even being made... and Reid is so scared of his shadow, he won't push at all...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
re (0.00 / 0)
The problem is... What leverage does the white house have with these conservative senators from red states?  Not a lot... They don't owe him anything, really, and they have millions on their own to finance campaigns outside the DSCC...

can't he play the 'I'll recruit, fund, and support primary challengers' card


[ Parent ]
he has leverage (4.00 / 5)
He can ensure the DNC helps or doesn't help those senators.  He can appear or not appear at fundraisers for them.  He can take their calls or not.  A big part of the story in the rise of the Executive over Congress has been the amount of institutional party-level power the President has over his own allies in Congress.  

I don't know what effect he could have if he played his trump cards, but it would be nice to get the sense he was trying.


[ Parent ]
But (0.00 / 0)
He can appear or not appear at fundraisers for them

This is a positive for some of these Senators, Blanche Lincoln for example. She won't want Obama anywhere near her.


[ Parent ]
re (4.00 / 1)
He can ensure the DNC helps or doesn't help those senators.

He can be more effective if he orders the dnc to fund and support the primary opponent of the senator.

These bastards have enough money to be able to not pay much attention to what the dnc does with them. But order the dnc to fund and support their primary opponent and the game changes.


[ Parent ]
That's almost unheard of though (0.00 / 0)
Obama, himself, can support a primary challenge, but it wouldn't do any good until the year of said primary.

The only example of that I can think of was LBJ's support of Bill Spong for the Virginia US Senate seat of A. Willis Robertson. LBJ was angered that Robertson wouldn't support Civil Rights, but he didn't support Spong until 1966, two years after the Civil Rights Act.

Baucus isn't up until 2014, and by then Obama will either be out of the White House or halfway through his second term anyway, so the whole thing will be moot.  


[ Parent ]
Obama's approach should be to attack their *positions* (4.00 / 1)
Every speech he gives, he should talk about how opponents of health reform want to kill Americans, increase the deficit, destroy jobs, benefit fat cats, and in general betray American and Democratic (in both senses) values. He should never mention Dem names and if anybody brings one up just return to explaining how those particular positions betray American and the Democrats. The primaries will take care of themselves once he has the Dem base riled up against the ConservaDems.

Obama is a great speech giver and has an unsurpassed bully pulpit. He could use it to tremendous effect, if he chose to.


[ Parent ]
But he chooses to side with the right-wingers. (4.00 / 2)
What should this be telling even the most die-hard supports who call themselves left-wing?  Obama is throwing his support behind Arlen Specter, just as he did with Joe LIEberman in 2006.  It's clear that Obama WANTS right-wing politicians in office so he can get more help pushing his right-wing policies with less need to maintain the illusion that he is somehow in this mythical center everyone keeps talking about yet never seems able to adequately define.



[ Parent ]
What good does that do to Baucus... (0.00 / 0)
....who's around until 2014?  

And not every state can field a credible primary challenger... In some cases, a challenge form the left would actually HELP the blue dog in a primary...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Who does he have more leverage with? (4.00 / 2)
Conservative Dems that are going to win reelection by 3%, or Progressive Dems, who tend to come from much more left-wing states to start with, and whose seats are much more secure?

[ Parent ]
Progressives (4.00 / 1)
since the Conservative Dems who win reelection by 3% will do so by not being loyal to Obama.  

[ Parent ]
They still need the DSCC for help (4.00 / 1)
and leadership to do fundraising for them.  Their infrastructure is not completely independent.  Meanwhile, the national party has little that it could do to remove someone like Kerry or Kennedy, even if it wanted to.

[ Parent ]
Obama has little power over the DSCC and DCCC (4.00 / 1)
the chairman of the party really has the power, and Bob Menendez and Chris Van Hollen control that.  

[ Parent ]
thats funny (4.00 / 4)
You ever work at the DSCC or DCCC? They'll do exactly what Obama tells them to. Same goes for the Blue Dogs, Obama can punish them politically if he chooses to do so, no Congressman wants his own president doing that. Even Bush at his nadir could control Republicans when it came to party priorities.

Its more likely that Obama is using the Blue Dogs to counter-balance the progressives, so that the health care reform bill he gets stays close to what he proposed in the primaries.


[ Parent ]
Rahm's scapegoating comments.... (4.00 / 10)
....suggest that he sees a real chance of failure of healthcare reform, and is already preparing to lay it at the feet of the "left of the left."

Does an Obama/Rahm administration think they can replay the 90s, triangulating between the batshit insane Republicans and the increasingly assertive progressives?

I'd like to think no, that they would understand that the political landscape has changed.  OTOH I try to imagine Obama ditching Rahm as the sacrificial offering for the failure of the healthcare reform, and I just can't see it, unless there is some currency to reports that Obama has expressed uncharacteristic impatience with some of his personnel in private recently.

Unless they change course, I suspect this will end up a lonely administration, with the economy imploding again and the currency tanking as the Chinese bail.

And you know, I really really wanted this guy to succeed....


If Obama is impatient (4.00 / 5)
He needs to learn that any personnel problems are a function of poor leadership at the top. Obama keeps demanding bipartisanship instead of action, and continues to refuse to make anyone upset. As a result there is no initiative within the White House, no sense of clear goals and therefore no coherence to their work.

Obama has to decide whether he wants to be the third term of Bill Clinton or whether he wants to actually understand what is going on out in the country and become the kind of leader that we elected him to be.


[ Parent ]
The Third Term Of Bill Clinton Would Be An Improvement (4.00 / 5)
Ask anyone who remembers his State of the Union speech from 1998.

What with Iraq, Afghanistan and Honduras, I'm more worried about it looking like the third term of G.W. Bush.

Domestically, not so much.  But this was supposed to be the one Democrat people could count on in matters of war and peace, 'cause of a speech he gave back before anyone knew his name.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Seems to me he's doing two third terms. (0.00 / 0)
He's continuing the worst aspects of the Bush regime (the shrub's third term) while replaying the worst errors of the Clinton administration (Bubba's third).



[ Parent ]
They've misread the last 8 years (4.00 / 28)
It's becoming increasingly clear to me that Obama and Emanuel have quite fundamentally misread what has happened to American politics the last 8 years (and going back even further, of course). Obama's basic view was that Bush was an irritant - remove him and you remove the cause of the infection in US politics. Without Bush out there sowing division Obama believed he could build a stable center.

Rahm Emanuel's role was to be the force behind that work. For Emanuel, the Obama Administration was an outright restoration. He would pick up right where he left off in 2000, cutting deals of a center-right variety and browbeating a weak progressive bloc into accepting it.

Neither of them have understood how much has changed between 2000 and 2008.

Bush was a symptom, not a cause. The right-wing under Bush became even more entrenched and hostile to anything not conservative and not Republican. They deepened their level of crazy. Obama's belief that he can reach out to these people is stunningly, tragically naive.

Similarly, Emanuel and Obama have not quite grasped how progressives have been changed by 8 years of Bush. We learned that the right-wing is to never be trusted on anything, ever, for any reason.

But we also learned to be extremely sensitive to Democratic efforts to sell us out. The Democratic decision to support the Iraq War initiated dramatic change in the Democratic Party and the progressive movement. We learned to never again let our values be abandoned by our party, and we began 6+ years of organizing work to ensure it would never happen again.

Both Obama and Emanuel seem to believe that we will just quietly fall in line when we are asked to support a compromise that has been drawn up along Republican lines. In doing so they are revealing their immense disconnection from the basic political realities of the day.

That is a deeply troubling sign. Such a disconnection is what brought down LBJ, who refused to understand the unpopularity of the Vietnam War until it was too late. It brought down Gerald Ford who did not quite understand either public outrage at his pardon of Nixon nor did he grasp the rise of the New Right. It brought down Jimmy Carter who did not understand quite a few things, from the divisions in the Democratic Congress to the goals of the New Right to the economic shifts under way to the malaise of the American voter. It brought down George H.W. Bush who did not understand how radical and movement-oriented the GOP was becoming, that they would refuse to fall in line as they had under Reagan, and that he was at the opening scenes of a great demographic shift that would empower Democrats like Bill Clinton.

I still find it unlikely that Obama would face a primary opponent in 2012. But he doesn't need to face one to lose the election. Obama's unwillingness to understand American political reality is causing him growing political problems. It is very much alienating his base, and as a result he will have slammed shut his own window for reform and change, and will have made his reelection bid unnecessarily difficult.


Very Well Put, Robert (4.00 / 4)
As you go through that list, it's amazing how many administrations have been out of touch in various ways.  The fact that it applies to both parties suggests that there's something broadly systemic about it, which I would trace back to the breakdown of the New Deal Party System.

I need to chew on this larger pattern some more, but one thing is for certain, you've really nailed the specifics of how this Administration has misread the current situation.  I've just got one thing to add--It's as if they actually convinced themselves that the Clintons were the cause of all the troubles they faced in the 1990s, since otherwise it just doesn't make sense to think Bush alone was problem. And I agree with you completely.  They really do seem to believe this fantasy.  It's like, dumber than David Broder.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
That is a very, very good point (4.00 / 5)
Obama definitely seems to believe that Clinton created the divisions of the '90s.

There are plenty of administrations that remained very much in touch with the public political mood, like Eisenhower - or that were effective at creating that mood, like Nixon, Reagan, and Dubya.

And then there are the people like FDR, who both read and wrote the public mood. But then FDR's political skills and acumen were almost unnatural. He was the Mozart of politics.


[ Parent ]
And even FDR made his share of screw-ups. (0.00 / 0)
He failed to read the economic climate when he began caving to to pressure to roll back parts of the New Deal.  Still, the lesson that should have been learned from that has not been learned by today's political generation.



[ Parent ]
No offense (0.00 / 0)
and the thought is horrible, but maybe our Depression hasn't arrived yet.  Hehe, have a good weekend?

[ Parent ]
Oh no? (0.00 / 0)
According to some analysts, including Smirking Chimp regular contributor Michael Fox (the writer, not the actor), the Depression began as early as November 2007 or April 2008.  Expect this Second Great Depression, for history shall record it as such, to get a whole lot worse.



[ Parent ]
I was not one of the Obama true believers (4.00 / 10)
during the primaries. However, I worked hard and donated plenty during the general election and was elated with the victory, inauguration, etc. Although the bank bailout left much to be desired, and I didn't care for the huge compromises on the stimulus, I felt we were on the right track, and I was very excited about the prospect of the big push for health reform

Now, after all the seesawing, I am totally disgusted with the lack of energy and passion on the part of Obama & his administration. They have compromised on so much, getting nothing in return, that I'm completely disillusioned.

I am astounded that they are so reluctant to stand strong on the public option. They could sell it if they worked on the sales pitch. But they have framed reform as a way to cut costs, not save people's lives and give Americans the security they need in difficult times.

Add that to the situation in Afghanistan, civil liberties, etc., and, well, I can see myself voting third party--not because it will elect that third party politician, but just to send a message that if you get elected by progressive money, energy, door-knocking, etc., you damn well better stand up for progressive issues--with passion.


you describe my own journey to disillusionment (4.00 / 3)
Obama's campaign got me out of a lifelong skepticism about establishment politics. Before Obama ran for pres I was of the opinion that there is something fundamental to the party system that would always produce a level of corruption.

When Obama came along I started to seriously think that maybe it was because people like me refused to get engaged in party politics is why political parties were corruption factories.

Now I am beginning to feel like Democratic administrations are just national pauses in between Republican constitutional rampages.

For now the only thing I can think of is to take all the money I would give to Obama and the DNC and give it to the progressive caucus. If something happens in the 2012 primary it would be very interesting to hear what Obama will have to say what battles he gave it his all for and what his accomplishments were



[ Parent ]
I surrendered the LAST of my illusions... (0.00 / 0)
...about the US government (and the DP in particular) in 1967 in Quang Tri province, Vietnam, applying the Kennedy/Johnson liberal-Dem foreign policy, in my work as an infantry operations and intelligence specialist.

[ Parent ]
So channel that somewhere else. (0.00 / 0)
That energy and passion you found last year can and should be channeled into a newly reformed Progressive Party.  It's a lot easier to shape the workings of such an organization at the beginning, when it's relatively small, than to try to work as a cog in a huge and corrupt machine.



[ Parent ]
I don't do disillusionment (0.00 / 0)
or illusionment. What we have is "We The People" working to keep democracy alive by putting relentless pressure on those in power. We have each other. I agree: "In doing so they are revealing their immense disconnection from the basic political realities of the day." So let's bring them back to reality.

[ Parent ]
Waterloo indeed, (4.00 / 12)
the only question is does Obama want an army on his side or not?

Montani semper liberi

or (4.00 / 2)
Does he want to be Wellington, or Bonaparte?


[ Parent ]
Which one was the reformer? (0.00 / 0)
Which one moved law forward.

This is a fun question, but honest to god if I had to choose, I am not sure I would stand with Wellington. I'd like to hear the arguments.

 

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Waterloo was such a weird diversion (0.00 / 0)
Napoleon was ruined by then, anyway.  

[ Parent ]
Well if had won, if he had captured Wellington for example, if he didnt have hemroids.... (4.00 / 1)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
77% want a public option. Gain the upper hand by getting on Board in unambiguous terms. (4.00 / 5)
Champion the public option. Say there will be a pubic option, say that its part of the package, not part of the possible mishy wishy on certain days I can think if we look at the.. .I just meant that... if we look at..."

On the other hand there are plenty of people posting here that never wanted Obama to do well, still want Obama to loose the next election, and few want the democrats to loose the 2010. They are not our friends, they are not with us, they are part of the opposition.

You are completely right Mike, we need a long lasting governing coalition. But the progressive wing of the country has been right for a generation, has pushed aside for a generation and it has come to an end.

The tea baggers are not mollified by tokens, not mollified by concessions, they are not even mollified by surrender. They want only one thing, that is complete and utter destruction of any left government at all.

There will be no benefit from moving a little toward the right. There is a huge benefit moving populist. Say the truth, work hard support your friends.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


Robert in Monetery makes excellent points (4.00 / 15)
I agree that it appears that Obama and Rahm have/are seriously misreading the changes that have occurred since 2000, and that they are wrong in thinking that "just not being Bush" is enough to satisfy Democrats.

I don't think the Beltway has ever understood the sense of betrayal that Democrats experienced, starting with the News/Cable supported efforts to bring down Clinton, through the 2000 Supreme Court annointment of Bush, through the disastrous Bush Administration. They wrote it off as "bush derangement syndrome" as though we had no legitimate complaints (and they mostly still do).

When we were faced with the Obama/Hillary question, my main fear about Hillary was that she WOULD return to the triangulation/corporatist approach. With Obama bringing Rahm in, it appears we're getting the same results.

But the difference now is that, via the web, we are able to keep a much closer eye on everything that is going on - it's much harder to keep things hidden. AND, we can quickly debunk lies coming from ANY source, Democrat or Republican.
And when the lies come from our side it has a very chilling effect. Lies, shadings of the truth, attempts to deny previous statements, slippery efforts to minimize issues that are very important - none of this stuff goes down well.

At Netroots Nation, my strongest reaction to Arlen Specter was that he's old school. He didn't (he's not alone in this) recognize that he was talking to a very informed group. His approach was to generalize and try to charm us and to gloss over uncomfortable facts. When Obama reversed himself on FISA back during the Fall campaign, he did the same thing. His reasons were inconsistent and vague and they infuriated many of us because it was clear that he was expecting us to be satisfied with a non supported non-explanation. Because, up until the internet age, politicians COULD get away with platitudes and generalities.
Not anymore.

I keep wondering how they can miss something so obvious. The "left of the left" is composed of very smart people who are motivated to pay close attention. We drive a lot of opinion out in the world. My friends and family who don't have the same level of passion for politics continually ask me for my views and a round-up of what the "bloggers" think because they know THEY don't have the time or interest to keep up with the details. They don't influence me - I influence them.

Obama's team doesn't have to agree with us on everything, but they certainly should take us seriously and treat us respectfully. Instead they blow us off, come asking for help when they need it, and blow us off again. Not smart.


You're Right To Mention The FISA Flip-Flop (4.00 / 10)
I was utterly flabbergasted by that. It was such transparent BS, I couldn't believe that Obama thought he could get away with it.

Well, of course no one was going to vote for McCain, instead.  But it did tell us all that he only half-understood the new media environment that he was supposedly master of.  And it told us he would lie through his teeth, same as any other politician.  The only thing unclear after that was what he would lie for, about and why.

Now, we're filling in those blanks, and the picture that's emerging is not a pretty one.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Isn't a simpler explanation that Obama is confident that he can lie/spin his way out of anything? (4.00 / 1)
That explanation works for me. And that is also one reason why, had we prominent pit bulls calling out Obama's lies, we might successfully 'make him do it' - by seriously making him question his own ability to lie and spin successfully.

I also have to question the thesis of this whole diary. The notion of Bill Clinton as a success makes me want to gag. From a corporatist and an imperialist viewpoint, he was certainly a success. This is not the sort of success that impresses me....

It sounds like a more worthy topic, though, than entitling it "Obama, Progressives, and Getting Re-elected, No Matter How Badly You Govern"

I can just imagine Obama, were he to read this diary and the comments, laughing at all the people who think he just doesn't get it. While I could see Obama admitting to some tactical errors, that is not the same thing as believing that he's a "good man"  (as stated in the diary) who hasn't quite grasped that the world has changed like we, the net-cognoscenti, know it has.

Given a choice between calling Obama a good man who just can't grasp a  few political facts of life, and a smooth-talking liar (albeit one capable of soaring rhetoric) who may have stumbled here and there, it's the latter that seems like the more accurate fit. At least to me it does.

A more interesting diary subject would have been: "How effective would calling out and embarassing Obama for his lies be as a method to 'make him do it', and if he was 'made to do it' in such a fashion, would his base support him, even though they didn't view him as an essentially 'good man'?"

435 Dem Primaries 2012
Coffee Party Usa
TheRealNews.Com


[ Parent ]
Questioning the thesis of this diary (4.00 / 2)
I think Mike Lux's designation of Clinton's presidency being successful was from the point of view of Clinton maintaining his support from the left throughout his travails, to the point where he won re-election in the middle of an impeachment effort, etc. AND, he's been popular ever since. (He had high ratings across the board, in fact.) Not the same as agreeing with what he did as president, per se (Nafta, DADT, etc.).



[ Parent ]
his reelection (0.00 / 0)
occured almost two years before impeachment.  

[ Parent ]
I knew I needed to check that! My bad. (0.00 / 0)
But! all the craziness was going on, and even when the impeachment came down Bill was still registering really high approval ratings. I'm sure the fluctuated and all that, but in the end he was still very popular.  

[ Parent ]
Clinton's approval rating (0.00 / 0)
never went back into negative territory after the government shutdown in late 1995.

I still think there's a good chance Obama could have an Eisenhower bottom since there really is nothing of nationwide important that would impact him negatively across the board.

Perhaps if there's a double dip recession or Katrina-type situation, but for most things, he's really popular or treading water.

Clinton got very little done in the five years he was popular. If Obama scores a healthcare victory, he can almost do nothing and still be popular.  


[ Parent ]
Exactly, IF he delivers a healthcare reform that really helps the people. (0.00 / 0)
But not if he just achieves a "reform" that helps the insurance companies much more than the average Joe. Forcing the insurers to accept customers with preexisting conditions, will not have a positive impact if the premiums stay unaffordable. And without the public option,it will be almost impossible to ensure competition. Co-ops have already failed on state markets, they won't do the trick nationally, too.

So, healthcare reform has to be come a success for Obama toprofit from it. But the WH hasn't shown to be on the road to success yet. Instead, they got lost on a dirt track deep in rethuglican territory. Without a change of course, they're heading to failure!


[ Parent ]
I think Obama really believes the Kumbaya (0.00 / 0)
It worked for him in the Illinois Senate. And he knows many Senators personally, and presumably gets along with them. What he doesn't seem to understand is the pathology created by the Republican nutbar brigade and the corruption of political contributions. Grassley is probably very nice over dinner, but the political climate means he benefits from outrageous lies like the death panel business, so that's what he does. Ditto for all the other Republicans, and to a lesser extent the ConservaDems.

Obama would recover his political power if he made an example of one of these guys - e.g. talk incessantly about how Grassley lies to the public to force nasty useless interventions on suffering dying people to ensure corporate profits. Repeat it constantly for weeks, until everybody thinking about Grassley thinks of torturing old people whenever his name is mentioned. Then let Grassley struggle with that image the rest of his political career.

Obama/Rahm are presumable afraid that Grassley (or whoever the target is) will vote against him for everything then. Hopefully at some point they'll realize Grassley will vote against him for everything anyway and they'll start thinking about marginalizing the crazies rather than appeasing them.


[ Parent ]
It's the left that are driving his aprovals right now... (4.00 / 4)
We're the only thing that's been keeping him above 50% 'cos we want him to succeed, even if we are grumbling behind the pollsters' backs...

If he loses his base, then he's really done for!  We're all he's got.. he needs to start acting like it!

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


I am not so sure, the fall might actually be liberals who want more, or at least a good portion. (4.00 / 2)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Not in the surveys that show breakdown by party... (4.00 / 2)
He's still getting, in some cases, 95% support...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
No. I'd like to believe that (4.00 / 2)
disenchantment among the base is a threat to Obama, but I don't think it is, not a major one, because they're just not many of us, because we're a sucker for punishment, because it's hard for to imagine a credible primary threat from his left, especially with Obama's strength among African-Americans. Can you imagine, say, Howard Dean or Russ Feingold against Obama in South Carolina?

Fact is, unless something has changed, and I hope it has, liberals come home no matter how much they're abused. Clinton shat on them--corporate trade, welfare reform, deregulation, the crime bill, etc--and they still stuck with him, not because he "worked closely with progressives" but because they're abused spouses who can't make a break.

Obama is correct to figure that if he pushes through a health care reform bill without a PO, the media will hail it as a major victory ("an accomplishment that has eluded Democratic presidents since Truman"), the Obama fans will cheer, and most liberals will clap, albeit softly, and even if they don't, his approval ratings among independents, enhanced by political victory, will be all he needs to look relatively strong going into 2010. That is, until the economic woes catch up with him.
 


Let me add that unless and until (4.00 / 1)
prominent disenchanted liberals are willing to back a primary or third-party challenge, this is just noise.


[ Parent ]
This is just completely dream time thinking, as I am sure you know (0.00 / 0)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Not really (4.00 / 5)
Obama's approval dropping affects his ability to persuade congress to implement his agenda.  It will definitely affect his small donor fundraising when it comes time for that.  It will depress DNC, DSCC and DCCC fundraising for 2010 (I see today the NRCC outraised the DCCC for July).

There's a lot of damage the left of the left can do while still voting for Obama and Democrats.  An enthusiastic supporter is worth more than a depressed one.


[ Parent ]
Eh (4.00 / 1)
You think Obama's going to fight for the PO cause he's worried about DNC fundraising? Get real.

I don't see any proof at this point that Obama fears liberals.

(By the way, do you have any evidence that his approval ratings are dropping among the left. The Kos poll has him lower among Dems, but I don't know if they're liberals.)


[ Parent ]
Well (4.00 / 4)
That Kos poll is a pretty good indicator.  I guess it didn't poll "liberals" specifically but liberals are the majority of the Democratic base.  Even at Obama bastions like DailyKos I see a lot more criticism than 3 months ago.

I'd say in the absence of contrary evidence, it is a plausible and supported theory that Obama is dropping among liberals.  Obama is allowing the needle to be moved right on what is probably the core Democratic issue, health care.  This isn't one of those peripheral issues where people can say "let that one go so we can do X" - they've been saying that about secrecy, torture, prosecutions, bail outs etc etc, and the "X" has always been health care.  This is it, this is the big time show.

No, I agree he doesn't fear us but my point was just that he probably should at least a little - as Lux outlines, losing your base is generally deadly to a president.  Independents who like you will vote for you, and tsk if you lose, but they won't pound pavement and sweat and bleed for you.  

He doesn't have to lose all the base, just 2% nationally is a big hit when it comes to election day.  


[ Parent ]
re (0.00 / 0)
is he worried about fundraising? no

is he worried about votes? yes


[ Parent ]
They're still raising ridiculous money now anyway (0.00 / 0)
Liberals have been saying around here that their wallets are closed since May, and yet the Democratic Party is still massively out-raising the Republicans.


[ Parent ]
But they're still doing better (0.00 / 0)
even better than they were doing in the first half of the year. Another words, they're getting the money they need without us.  

[ Parent ]
Why shouldn't they? If Obama continues in that direction... (4.00 / 1)
..this sure is on the horizon. And the rising criticism will have an impact on him personally, too. Nobody is an island, not even the US president. Well, remember, LBJ didn't run for a second term, right?

[ Parent ]
No time like the present to start. (0.00 / 0)
See my latest entry here, talking to the willingly deaf.  Mr. Rosenberg recognizes the problem, but cannot bring himself to accept the obvious solution.  A strong third party won't replace the existing ones, but it will force at least one of them to run and govern from the left.  It's a process that will take years, probably even a generation, but at least we'll have the relative luxury of starting without a large, built-in, and well-moneyed enemy within the institution itself.



[ Parent ]
Ultimately a politician has to decide who he's/she's working for (4.00 / 1)
because every vote he/she takes, every bill he/she authors or signs benefits a certain group more than others and come re-election time he/she has to sell or resell  or justify that position all over again.

When someone like Obama literally taps a well of activists pretty close to one already established by the progressive movement he's drawing from  a reservoir full of well  informed and an engaged electorate who pay attention and who realize they are citizens and not consumers.

They don't forget promises/pledges made to them easily.

If the public option is dropped with active assistance from the White House you don't have to watch polls regularly to just know that Obama will have done irreparable harm to his own brand, and to the Democratic Party.

I honestly do not know what he thinks is the higher good:bi-partisanship in and of itself or good policy that will positively affect the lifes of Americans for generations

 


I like your contrast: citizens and not consumers (0.00 / 0)
Indeed. Obama might have awakened a sleeping giant.  

[ Parent ]
I've already given up on Obama (4.00 / 2)
This health care fiasco has just become too ridiculous to watch anymore. He has given me no reason to have any faith in him, nor any reason to ever vote for him again.

Me too (0.00 / 0)
His face now reflects eyes that have lost their lustre, and a smile that is becoming forced. He and Michelle no longer always walk hand in hand. Often she is following him with one of the girls. Her posture has gone back to being awkward. Her down to earth clothes reflect an attempt to suppress sexual body language. The magic is gone between them a lot. She has come down to earth and finds that it is Obama as usual and she spent a lot of time in their marriage being discontented.

Black women do not go to Harvard Law to become the bread winners for their Black husbands. No no. Too many decades of the matriarchy. Just watch them on Huffpost.  They are feeling the loss of adoration.

O has spent a lifetime of reconciling the black and white halves of his psyche. He has walked a tight tightrope. Now he is trying to walk it with his bipartisanship. He cannot give up a lifetime of trying to get consensus.

Experience, experience, experience yelled Hillary shrilly. He does not know how to go for the throat or he won't.

And there is a vast right wing conspiracy. Palin knows it.


[ Parent ]
To dip into armchair psychoanalysis: (4.00 / 4)
Obama wants too badly to be everything to everybody.  Stay on that course for too long and you become nobody to too many people.  The message in the post and comments to choose your self, choose your stance, choose your base, and stand through some fights is a good one.

I still think everything is going to work out ok.  The Republicans will spurn the olive branch that never should have been offered, and once Rahm is staring failure in the face, he'll whip either the progressive caucus or the conservative Senators.  His instinct will be to whip the progressive caucus, but I'm hopeful that the president and vice-president will insist on whipping the conservative Senators instead.  The long-term interests of the Democratic party are at stake, and the short term bitching of Bayh and Landrieu should not be allowed to overrule that.  Passing a weak bill will be seen as a weakness and failure in the DC circuit, so might as well go for the right policy and force the Senators to go along.

We need the Mass legislature to pass the Kennedy replacement bill though, stat.  West Virginia should do the same.  


I don't think so (0.00 / 0)
I don't think he wanted too badly to be everything to everyone; he just thought it was a winning strategy. Moreover, I think this was his strategy from the beginning of his career, hence all the "present" votes in the State Senate, the lack of records and the shifting positions. And guess what? He was right.


[ Parent ]
Maybe WE have it all wrong. (4.00 / 3)
In terms of long term strategy.  Progressive Democrats should move towards a more issued based approach as opposed to "electing better Democrats."

And instead of "following" candidates have them persuade progressives that they are deserving of the support.  I think progressive democrats are too quick to pick candidates.  I hate use it as a model but it has been successful (you don't see politicians abandoning their base support) and that is the Christian Right.  Politicians have to prove the cred before getting the support of the christian right apparatus.  

WE should do the same.  

RebelCapitalist - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.


I dont see this at all, we would not have our close to passing the Health Reform bill with a Public Option (4.00 / 1)
with out the progressive caucus. They are the rock and engine of reform right now.


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
This is exactly what Digby said (4.00 / 3)
during the election.

She was the only one I saw who noticed that progressives jumped on the bandwagons of the major candidates without asking for anything in return. Yes and began clawing each other's throats out for them, too.

"We put out too soon" is how she put it, and naturally they lost all respect for us.

It's a mistake we should never, never make again.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Clinton is responsible for the mess we are in. (4.00 / 2)
Cheap dates.  They gave away millions of manufacturing jobs for a dinner and a great speech a song and dance.  Labor should have told him and your idea to kiss their ass.  They trusted him, and he offshored millions of American jobs with no fucking replacement plan.   Clinton punked labor, and now they are getting punked by Obama.  It is so time that labor and progressives dropped Democrats on their ass.  

A story from the Clinton years, from the toughest, most divisive days of the NAFTA fight. I (thankfully) wasn't forced to work on NAFTA, but I was still talking to union folks every day about health care and other issues, and I knew the damage the fight was doing to our relationships.

We came up with the idea of getting the President to do a dinner and reception one night at the White House with labor leaders, all the union Presidents in the AFL-CIO, even the one who had been the toughest on us rhetorically during the NAFTA fight.

Clinton gave an amazing speech that night, basically saying that he knew we (him and the labor movement) would never agree on the fight, he knew how tough and divisive the battle was getting and how raw the emotions were, but that he wanted everyone to know that the White House was still their house, that they would always be welcome in it as long as he was resident, that he would always listen to them even when he disagreed, and that he would do everything in his power to help them on other issues. Then he stayed talking with people one on one and in small groups late into the night.




This is clever insight. (4.00 / 1)
But so is Bush.

The right lets all remember, destroy national finances to stop democracy. The massive debt created by Bush, just as was created by Reagan, is designedto defund the democracy, to create a crisis. We can step through history to find others, starting in the fifties.



--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Fearful people will do what they are told (4.00 / 1)
And hustling your next paycheck leaves little time for keeping informed and vigilant.

They did the exact correct thing. Machiavelli.


[ Parent ]
"The right lets all remember, destroy national finances..." (0.00 / 0)
I gotta wonder how you're defining "the right" here.

The final votes on eliminating Glass-Steagall, after an arm-twisting blitz by the WH and Wall Street (particularly Rubin and his acolytes) reminiscent of that for NAFTA, were Senate 90-8, and House 362-57. Clinton triumphantly signed this attack on the New Deal 12 November 1999.

If you're classifying neoliberals -- true-believers in market fundamentalism (as long as the public bails the speculators out of their inevitable crises), deregulate & privatize, NAFTA-everywhere, etc -- as "the right," I agree.

If you're claiming that leadership of the DP, the DLC, any D administration since Johnson or nominee since McGovern is/was NOT dominated by neoliberals...well.


[ Parent ]
Obama is responsible (4.00 / 2)
for Obama. The primaries are over, it's time to stop blaming Clinton for everything Obama thinks, says, does.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Clinton passed NAFTA despite base opposition. (4.00 / 1)
I am not blaming Clinton for health care or bailing out the banks.  That belongs to Obama.  

[ Parent ]
There is an arrogance (4.00 / 6)
to the staff, and, at times, to Obama.  In his talk to OFA, he referred back to Iowa and being down.  Both Obama and many of his people may have forgotten lessons from (1) Hillary kicking his ass after February (without caucuses, he might hav elost to her) and (2) August 2008, when the polls tightened against McCain, a very weak candidate.  Yes, Obama won and pulled away.  But we had an economic crash and McCain looked like an idiot suspending his camapign.

Obama and his camapign staff did a great job, but I think they may have foregotten how close it could have been.

When you lose the trust of people, and, rightly or wrongly, long time, hard core Obama people are becoming disillusioned (I see it on dkos), it is hard to get it back.  Obama created such high expectations with a slogan-driven (Change and hope) campaign.  

I think their self confidence is preventing them from seeing what is happening.  A bubble where no one can reach Obama.


Yes (4.00 / 4)
I thought that too, yes he won, and did so with a solid majority which is great, but I'm not prepared to say his was the greatest campaign in American history or any of the superlatives some of the Kossacks do.  I'm more impressed with beating Hillary than McCain.  That weak response to McCain's barrage in July was pretty frightening, and the initial response to the Palin pick were serious problems.  Kerry would probably have won had Bush done something flaky like suspending his campaign or had an economic collapse too.  

There was also a lot less down ticket coordination than there could have been.  Frankly I was disappointed in the number of congressional seats taken.  I think it could have been better.


[ Parent ]
Okay here is the contra factual spin. (4.00 / 2)
We arent in a crisis.

Whew glad thats over.

Okay so its a little far fetched, but here is a good news way of looking where we really are.

There will be a Health care reform. It will contain a public option. Bonus. This is real, and its passage will turn around decades of shameful health delivery. Millions will get treatment and coverage they did not have before. Uncle harry will get that bypass.

The people will feel as if the struggle is worth it when it passes, and that's just weeks away.

Obama may now have a very real sense, and I admit I am crossing fingers based on Mikes article, that a populist direction is at least a possible solution now. There is no benefit any more to currying favour with "completely false pretend centrist leaders" or to be bipartisan with those "leaders" is not possible. Obama has to go with his base, and reach past the "leaders" to centrist voters on populist and issue based programs. (yeah this might be dreaming, but it fits the facts, and it is the real solution)

If 77% want a choice of a public option, go with that, acknowledge that, champion that. This is America, not its asshat "leaders" avoid all other leaders, and talk to independents directly. On their issues, which include very very progressive causes that America needs addressed.

Paul Rosenberg's anti rankist, anti elite and anti corporate control points are, ARE, independent issues, they are already onside. This is a cross spectrum issue. The teabagger right wont like it, but what the hell they don't like anything. So frakk'em.

This isnt a terrible place to be. If the populist leader, can be a populist, as he was at his best.

I truly fear that Obama thinks his "aw shucks", and his "I will reach out", is what people loved. Because it isn't, it was the Yes WE Can, and Change is Gonna come, and its the "flow of American history" and "believe in your ability to change."

Pushing aside the people who have been pushing for change works hard against that. He didn't invent the "progressive change people", he acknowledged them, ignoring them now, is the problem.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


The French have a label for this-acting in good faith (4.00 / 3)
which you cannot do when people are responding in bad faith. You have to recognize who you are dealing with in this vast right wing conspiracy. They are always acting in bad faith.

Someone tell Obama about Sartre. Or get Donald Trump to negotiate the deal. Because this is a fucking deal. And Obama would be fired by Trump.


[ Parent ]
Maybe, Maybe Not (4.00 / 4)
Some of your statements may turn out to be very true. We can't know today what the future will be.

But what we can see is that, so far, Obama is at best a middling leader. The fish does rot from the head. Obama could actively set the national terms of the debate on many issues then work with Congress to pass legislation. Leaders also have the ability to scout forward then drive people along behind.

It is clear, so far, that Obama does not get the fundamental economic damage caused by Reagan policies around taxation and deregulation. And how those policies have empowered corporations and Wall Street at the expense of 95%+ of working Americans and our constitutional government. No President of any party can begin to address the problems we face today without first publicly calling out what has happened politically and economically since at least 1981.

People hate Wall Street bailouts for a reason: the public knows the truth of the past decades. Obama can't lead well until he publicly admits and engages that truth.

While I've given up on Obama personally, which started with his FISA vote last summer, I plan to do what little I can to help get health reform with a strong public option. However, unless Obama grows up to be an effective leader (which could happen), he is a middling President. He at best will be a transitional figure between a conservative era and a progressive era.

Of course, the other possibility is that Obama is a conservative Democrat, that his soaring language is bunk to get elected. Regardless, you don't get reelected without being an effective leader. To date, Obama has failed that test.  


[ Parent ]
I don't know what giving up means. I don't (0.00 / 0)
If it means you don't want to be associated with the President as a close political ally, well, he is. How close we are finding out. But the real thing is, we cannot rely on the President to do this without us, without our pressure, without
the progressive caucus.

That is all to the good. And I dont give a frakk if its his elenth level ches frakking genious, or just the luck of history. BECAUSE WHAT AMERICA NEEDS is a population that fights for these things,m and not a country that lets soemone elese do it.

WE DONT need, should not have a daddy that does it for us,

What we need is a country that knows it must always fight, and organize and demand what the democracy needs.

That is what we have.

Lets do it.

Lets organize a country.

That is or job, that has always been our job.

That is what I said our was going to be back in June of '08, july of '08, aug, sept and last week.

Give on daddy doing it for us, get to work on doing it for ourselves. leave Obama out of it. We literally have no one single even small chance of having a better president, or different president (unless we get Cheney or Palin in 2012) until 2016.

Obama will be President in 2016. We will many mnay opportunities to organize America, just like we have done with this bill, with these polls, with this money raising( Netroots Raises More $$$ For Progressives Than Health Industry Does For Blue Dogs  (Paul Rosenberg)).

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
O-bomb-a as "ally?" (0.00 / 0)
I started calling him "O-bomb-a" when he was running for Senate and called for cruise-missile strikes on Iran. He's never backed off that position, and continues the CheneyBush Big Lie on Iran's non-existent nuke weapons program.

He's no ally of mine.  


[ Parent ]
"working for many of the same things like a public option despite not doing anything on foreign policy except caving before the military advisors" (0.00 / 0)
my new definition of ally

I dont want to be painted as a person supporting that FP position, but the point of ally is that they are not in your camp, they are working for the same goals as your camp.

For example, FDR and Stalin. Without the alliance, Hitler wins.


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
"...Hitler wins..." (0.00 / 0)
Setting Godwin aside for a moment for history's sake...Hitler doomed himself when he attacked Russia. By D-Day the Soviets had made mincemeat of the Wermacht, and nothing was left except a bloody mop-up.

[ Parent ]
Is this an argument? you re saying the alliance did nothting? (0.00 / 0)
The shipments of armamnets to all allies was worthless, Stalking did it himself.

OK finbe , we are going it alone, now are we stalin or are we FDR.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Obama is NOT working for "my camp." (4.00 / 1)
He loaded his administration with DLCers, Blue Dog supporters, deregulators, privatizers, opponents of single-payer, Goldman Sachs and Citigroup shills, Monsanto flacks, supporters of "clean coal" and Big Nukes and drillbabydrill on energy, opponents of card-check, and on and on.

Which side are you on?


[ Parent ]
"but the point of ally is that they are not in your camp, " (0.00 / 0)
Maybe we could learn to read before we start the show trials.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Two paths diverged in a wood... (4.00 / 6)
I believe that the key to Obama's success at this fundamentally critical juncture is whether the President can get his base excited about him again, get them engaged in fighting by his side on the tough battles ahead.

What I want to know is Obama fighting alongside me.

Obama campaigned on a set of principles.  His principles were coincident with my own.  I stumped on his behalf.  He won the election.  I now have grave suspicions that his principles weren't as coincident with mine as I thought.  I'm stumping for a robust public option, restoration of civil liberties, a restoration of habeas corpus, adherence to the Geneva Conventions and human rights.  I have no idea what Obama is stumping for.

I have zero, zip, nada, none, no interest in supporting Obama in continuing Bush/Cheney's torture regime, the black sites, the mercenaries in the mid-east, indefinite rendition, multiple tiers of justice, financial industry bail outs, feathering the nests of the medical-industrial-complex, secrecy, warrantless surveillance, the assignment of military units to the US, ... should I keep going?

Somewhere along the way, Obama's paths and mine diverged.  Given the direction I understand him to be going, I have absolutely no interest in following him there.

The big question for me is not whether I'm failing Obama, but how deeply Obama has failed me.

Someone in Glenn Greenwald's threads answered the question What would Obama have to do to earn back a measure of your trust?, this way:

1. Dump Rahm.
2. Make it clear he will veto any bill without a robust public option.
3. Recess appointment of Dawn Johnsen.
4. Dump Rahm.
5. Open-ended criminal prosecutions for torture and other war crimes.
6. Exits from Iraq and Afghanistan as fast as possible.
7. Dump Rahm.
8. Open-ended criminal prosecutions for manipulation of the financial markets.
9. Restoration of tax rates to pre-Reagan levels.
10. Dump Rahm.

Works for me.  Someone let me know when Obama shows up to put his shoulder to that wheel alongside my own.

I would add (4.00 / 2)
give the prisoners at Guantanamo open trials, and if they are innocent, release them. Like, yesterday.

We tried Nazis, didn't we? And open trials only enhanced our moral authority around the world. The only reason not to try these people, publicly, is if you know they are innocent, and want to protect the people who imprisoned and tortured them.

The fact that this is apparently exactly what Obama wants really bothers me. It makes me wonder if he has a moral compass at all.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Under what laws did nuremburg operate? it c ertainly wasn't open American courts. (0.00 / 0)
Nurmeberg, please my history friends were organized by whom, as what, under what laws, in what court. Lets follow that model. Im ok with that.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
I don't give a fuck HOW it's done. (0.00 / 0)
I'm just sick of this "we know they're guilty so it's okay to keep them locked up" approach. I thought we voted against that in November.

Every day those people remain in prison is a mark on Obama.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Obama's path was NEVER the same as yours. (0.00 / 0)
Like a lot of people, you wanted to believe in something, in Obama's case, that a Democrat could get elected on an anti-Bush wave and right the wrongs of the past eight years.  Like a lot of people, you wanted to believe that Obama was like you, a liberal or even a progressive.  But he wasn't, and he never was.  His record has always reflected a sick and depraved individual who says one thing and does another - all for the sake of personal political power.



[ Parent ]
Clinton was not an example of success (4.00 / 5)
Did that solve all of our problems with labor rank and file in the health care debate, or the 1994 elections? No, of course not. But labor leaders also did not encourage Dick Gephardt to run in a primary against Clinton when he was at his weakest point in 1995, as many unions encouraged Ted Kennedy to take on Jimmy Carter in 1980. And they fought like tigers for him in the 1996 election, and in the impeachment fight, and most of Clinton's other big issue fights. That tough, awful NAFTA fight didn't break the bond between Clinton and labor. This is how a White House should operate with its progressive allies, not just labor but the broader progressive community as well.

Right, they got played. NAFTA didn't break the bond between Clinton and labor, because he then went on to screw everybody on WTO and deregulation such as Glass-Steagall. Because of him, it's now a Democratic tradition after every Election Day to look Labor in the eye, smile, and stick in the shiv...(Obama continued this fine tradition within days of his inauguration, when he junked EFCA for the Middle Class Task Force...whatever happened to that?).  

In terms of power we lost both houses of Congress and the balance of governorships and statehouses, which probably had a hand in redistricting at the decade's end. He made neo-liberalism the driving philosophy of the party, set up a recruiting and funding mechanism that suffocated anyone who wasn't a corporate puppet, and even floated a trial balloon on privatizing social security. At the end of his eight years, he had a party that was out of power, with no infrastructure, dominated by a handful of elites in DC, and in the midst of a very deep identity crisis.

He was horrible. In many ways, he was everything we are against; we might as well have re-elected Reagan.

Those days should not be upheld as something to aspire to.


I couldn't agree more. (4.00 / 1)
If Gebhardt had run, I would have supported him.  Any fool could see where NAFTA was headed, and the retraining plan that accompanied NAFTA is still here and an even bigger joke than it was before.    If there is no plan created or implemented to create replacement jobs, all the job retraining in the world is a joke.   One county in Michigan alone has already spent 7 million tax payer dollars this year on retraining for displaced workers.  All of it with no jobs to put them in.  

Clinton and Obama as just corporate owned smucks servicing their Johns.  Both of them thought Ronald Reagan, the biggest asshole of them all, was someone to emulate.  If that doesn't say a mouthful, nothing does.  Birds of a feather and all that jazz.


[ Parent ]
The base? (4.00 / 2)
Isn't the inescapable conclusions from all of this that the left is not actually the base for this White House? If anything, I would think that centrists, "moderate" Democrats, Independents, and corporate lobbyists are in that role, and they see Obama as being sufficiently aligned with them.  Not that the Left is totally without importance, but it's clear that we are not major players, especially as long as our votes can be taken for granted, and especially since we don't have huge piles of money or widespread influence in society.  

I'm sure progressive votes CAN'T be taken for granted... (4.00 / 1)
...in the next primary, if the WH continues on its course. Remember, Obama didn't have an easy way to nomination. Without the progressives, he wouldnt have made it. It only takes a strong opponent in the 2012 primaries and he can say goodbye to his second term. Damn, if he manages to alienate the left wing, and his popularity tanks to Bush levels, he shouldn't dare to run at all!  

[ Parent ]
It is us leaving in the polls. (0.00 / 0)
It is NOT a switch to the republicans.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
I was talking about the primaries, HoP! (0.00 / 0)
So, I was referring to a Dem candidate challenging Obama then, of course. I never meant to imply anyone should vote for a rethuglican.

[ Parent ]
There is no better candidate from the left of Obama (0.00 / 0)
Period.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
No? How about Dean? (0.00 / 0)
How about a return of Edwards? There have been other examples of comebacks in politics. Just think of that ole crook Nixon. He almost was in early retirement.

[ Parent ]
While arguably on some issues to the left of Obama, Dean has not a snowballs chance in hell of being nominated or elected. (0.00 / 0)
As much as I love the guy, as much as hes responsible for the 50 state etc etc.

Edwards was my first pick before Obama, and stayed with him hard right to the day he resigned. But now? Lets see what the book about his affair, and the paternity of the child, which apparent;ly he is going to admit some day soon.

Neither is viable at the moment.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
That is an uncomfortable conclusion (0.00 / 0)
but it's the shortest distance between two points.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Our job to bring the elected back to reality (0.00 / 0)
Why wait for the WH, Rahm, the new establishment to "learn" through more lost elections. That's too hard on us. What did they learn from the Lieberman primary loss? And then Lieberman running as a Republican-lite, the betrayal of the CT Democratic Party by the senate Dems? What's it going to take for them to learn the right lessons? Another lost election? The loss of millions of baby-Democrats? I say, shore up our base in Congress, the CPC, with everything we've got. They are our heroes. Give money & time now instead of in the next election, begging young people to come back.



[ Parent ]
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