Reconciliation and Daschle's Delusions

by: Adam Bink

Sun Aug 30, 2009 at 14:30


Two things I read in this morning's NYTimes I think are worthy of note:

1. The NYTimes editorial board has a great piece out making the case for reconciliation in a very succinct, reasoned way. It lays out three important arguments:

(a) The Republicans has no moderates, only partisan conservatives who want to see this as Obama's Waterloo.

Mr. Obama should know from sad experience the pitfalls of seeking bipartisan cooperation from a Republican Party that has sloughed off most of its moderates and is dominated by its right wing. His stimulus package was supported by no Republicans in the House and only three Republicans in the Senate, so-called moderates whose support was won by shrinking the package below the size at which it would have done the most good.

[...]

Even if the group reaches an agreement, which is by no means certain, its compromise is unlikely to win support from a Republican Party that seems bent on delay.

(b) Grassley, who I think made his critical mistake when he said he was only interested in a bill that could achieve more than just 3 or 4 Republican votes, is negotiating to a place where not just fundamental reform is untenable- because he wants so many Republicans to sign on that the legislation is weak tea- but where it just ain't going to happen, because too many Republicans will vote against any bill. E.g., it should be clear to the Administration that where Grassley is leading them by the nose is not a place they will be comfortable in, either because the bill is so weak or because there will be no bill at all.

(c) The Democrats should move forward on using reconciliation, and a great statement against the pitfalls of bipartisanship, sacrificing reform for comity.

Clearly the reconciliation approach is a risky and less desirable way to enact comprehensive health care reforms. The only worse approach would be to retreat to modest gestures in an effort to win Republican acquiescence. It is barely possible that the Senate Finance Committee might pull off a miracle and devise a comprehensive solution that could win broad support, or get one or more Republicans to vote to break a filibuster. If not, the Democrats need to push for as much reform as possible through majority vote.

The whole thing is worth a read.

On the flip: Deborah Solomon interviews Tom Daschle.

Adam Bink :: Reconciliation and Daschle's Delusions
2. Deborah Solomon has her usual Sunday magazine interview, this time with Tom Daschle. Check out the exchange over his advising United Health Group:

It has been reported that you're a paid adviser to the insurance giant UnitedHealth Group, which opposes your belief that health care reform needs to have a public option. Why do you work with them?

On the left there are those who say that you should never talk to people who differ with you on a high-profile issue. My question to the left would be, whom would they advise these insurance companies talk to? Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin? That's the alternative. They can talk to Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, or they can talk to me.

There are two points to be made here. First is that I don't know what kind of good Daschle thinks he's doing. dday reported here on OpenLeft just last week that they were encouraging their own employees to speak with "advocacy specialist" to educate them on language to use opposing a public health insurance option, and to attend tea-bagger anti-reform protests. They have, for years, funded the Lewin Group, a front group that is cited by conservatives opposing reform. I don't have doubts they have also dumped money into anti-reform ads and other efforts. Daschle is making the case that we should be happy he's helping keep the leash on them a bit, keeping them from full engaging in the battle, or something.  I'm not sure how much worse it could get. What exactly is he keeping them from doing?

Secondly, you could make the same argument Daschle's making about advising any group. I could advise the US Chamber of Commerce or Altria on political strategy. But a lot of their executives will talk to Sarah Palin, or listen to Limbaugh and Beck, or bring in Newt Gingrich to speak at their conferences. Contrary to what Daschle is saying about an either/or choice, my advice will not keep them from listening to such voices. So if Daschle thinks United Health Group is going cold turkey on tuning out those nasty conservative voices, and listening only to the dulcet notes of him pleading with them to support a public option, he's deluding himself.


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Is Daschle a DLC member? .. (0.00 / 0)
So if Daschle thinks United Health Group is going cold turkey on tuning out those nasty conservative voices, and listening only to the dulcet notes of him pleading with them to support a public option, he's deluding himself.

Or is it just that he acts like one without actually being a member?  It's sad that Obama listens to him .. but at the same time ... thankful he's no longer in the Senate .. talk about weak-kneed Willies(yes, a Springsteen reference)


Does the DLC still exist? (0.00 / 0)
He certainly was once a DLC member.

[ Parent ]
Oh yeah ... it exists ... (0.00 / 0)
I guess you haven't been reading the comments in Quick Hits .. heck .. lately .. the TradMed is even writing glowing profiles of the DLC/Third Way idiots

[ Parent ]
Isn't Harold Ford its chairman? (4.00 / 1)
Also, pet peeve, but I prefer "Establishment Media", not "Traditional Media", because it's owned by and/or speaks for the political and corporate establishment, and there's nothing traditional in my book about dishonesty, incompetence and malfeasance.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
corporate oligopoly media (0.00 / 0)
     A better phrase is "corporate oligopoly media".
    Even though it is true that the internet has allowed virtually anyone to write for a nationwide audience, there has been a dramatic shift from 1980 to present. We lost the fairness doctrine, and media outlets from newspapers to television became controlled by an ever-smaller number of ever-larger players.
    One of the most ridiculous Orwellian labels used by the Right these days is "_____ media bias", where the blank is filled in as "liberal". If the right-wing blowhards were honest, they would call it what it is: "pro-business oligopoly-owned media bias".
    And as for whether "dishonesty, incompetence and malfeasance" are traditional or not... they are not new forces upon the face of the Earth. They describe King George pretty well... as well as some Republican presidents, such as Nixon and Bush.



1 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV) - "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."/ GOP = Greedy Old Privatizers or Greedy Old Privateers?


[ Parent ]
Thanks for this (0.00 / 0)
To be very very clear, the NY Times "piece" isnt an article laying  out and argument, it is The Editorial, and hence the position of the paper, similar to endorsing a candidate in an election.

The position of the NYT now, is "forget the Republicans, they have no intention of participating, and don't water down your reform package, get the best one you can pass with 51%" That is their editorial position now. Obama's outreach efforts, one may say, has at least convinced this paper, he has tried long enough, tried in good faith, and there is no longer any need at all to listen or discuss with the "Party of NO"

This is a BIG step toward real reform.

Second on Daschel's delusion, he says they can talk to us, or they can talk to Rush.

I know children who used to say, "or they can talk to the hand."

Sorry he doesn't understand that.

"We need to keep children off crack. Crack dealers want to keep selling around schools," former Senator Dacshel said, "now do you want me to to talk to them? Or do you want them to talk to a crime syndicate?"

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


Words (4.00 / 1)
Don't disagree with you, but isn't taking a position also making an argument to some degree? They made an argument to me. Perhaps officially it's different or whatnot.

Thanks for posting in QH btw, I saw that after I put up the piece.

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[ Parent ]
Sir , yes. I dont disagree with you. You did not make a mistake at all. (0.00 / 0)
I am reiterating, emphasizing, pointing out. They don't just make the argument and make the logic normal and accepted and understood, they go just that step beyond, and endorse, they take sides.

They have said, this is the correct decision to make, we agree. "The NYT says" do this.

So I am agreeing with you, and making sure that it is understood - a line has been crossed. The Rubicon if you will.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Except that he's not merely "talking" to them (4.00 / 1)
He's taking money from them. He is out and out lying here.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

[ Parent ]
Agreed, thats exactly true. It's as if he doesnt notice, or thinks "so what" (0.00 / 0)
I don't know how people get to the point where "just being with the people in power" is normal, and doesnt mean anything. Your friendship, your favours, your accepting favours, like "Geitner living in the bankers house, "So what?"

It amazes me.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Of course he notices (4.00 / 1)
But he also notices that fat paycheck and those rich and powerful friends who allow him to indulge in his belief that he's still doing the peoples' work. Guess which one won out?

These are not one-dimensional moustache-twirling crooks, for the most part. These are ambitious, weak and vain human beings who lead compromised public lives as they try to satisfy both their desire to do good and their need for power, status and money, in an extremely competitive and aggressive professional and social environment.

I've met and known enough rich and powerful people to see how big a role ego, vanity, social pressure, greed, ambition, and fear, play in their world. One has to be made of pretty strong stuff, possess a first-rate mind, and have a genuinely good heart, to do good in such an environment. Which is why all too few do, and all too many compromise themselves.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
difference (4.00 / 6)
Talking to those you disagree with is fine, getting paid by them and then pretending you're unbiased is corrupt

It saddens me to agree with you. (0.00 / 0)
But I am glad that Dachsel was self involved enough, unattentive enough, and so lacking in public spirit to 'forget to pay so much in taxes that it was just plain impossible to let him serve actually in the government.

Why he thinks he is "acting" for the party ("should they talk to republicans or me?") is beyond me. He represents no one at all. No one.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Wrong!!! (4.00 / 1)
He represents no one at all. No one.

A corporate whore represents someone(or is it something?) last I checked


[ Parent ]
I meant of course, and I am not sure you are disagreeing with me, He does not represent me. (0.00 / 0)
He does not represent the Democratic party, no one appointed him, no one voted for him, he carries no credentials.

He cannot say 'talk to the republicans or me' as if he can represent the Democratic party.

I demand that he carry credentials to say that, or STOP saying it. And I dare any group to say he does represent them.


Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
I was agreeing with you ... (4.00 / 1)
was trying to be sarcastic   ;-)

[ Parent ]
Beware of people who defend their actions (4.00 / 2)
through false dichotomies.  

Daschle is Evan Bayh-lite, who is Mike Enzi-lite, who is Tom Coburn-lite, who is a deranged lunatic.

Abstracting yourself three times from a lunatic does not make for sane policy.  


[ Parent ]
Quite a contrast to Reagan who could work with both sides says NYTimes (0.00 / 0)
quote
In 1986, before President Ronald Reagan, a Republican Senate and a Democratic House succeeded in passing landmark tax reform, Washington insiders and the press predicted - as they are doing now - that it would never happen. There are lessons from the 1986 legislative experience that can be applied to health care reform today.

In the end, the tax bill passed because each party got something it wanted: Republicans got a lower marginal tax rate, and Democrats eliminated special-interest loopholes. By adhering to the principles of equity (equal incomes should pay equal taxes) and efficiency (the market is a more efficient allocator of capital than Congress), the bipartisan coalition produced a bill that lowered the top tax rate from 50 percent to 28 percent, eliminated $30 billion annually in loopholes and resulted in the wealthy contributing a higher percentage of income-tax revenues than they had before the reform.
unquote

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08...

At least it will be clear by Nov if there is a true Left Democratic majority that will push through health reform over the objection of the opposition.  If not, we are saddled with true Left Dems, DINOs, RINOs, and Republicans (by definition reactionary to true Left position).

And if they do pass it the risk is
- the reactionary seniors still think they are stripping out $200-300 Billion from Medicare and we have Dan Rostenkowski major revolt in 2010
or
- they leave Medicare alone but still unfunded and the reactionary deficit hawks revolt in 2010. This would be a gaggle of independents, seniors, and Republicans.

And isn't it true if health reform goes down, then cap and trade and immigration reform go down?


Mace


What if the NY Tiimes was the Democratic party.. (0.00 / 0)
The NY Times goes all in and doubles down for reform:
"... they appear to have little choice but to adopt a high-risk, go-it-alone, majority-rules strategy."

Jettison the broad  public support:
"...a bipartisan compromise would be the surest way to achieve comprehensive reforms with broad public support."

Assume it is budget neutral:
"...Those who fear that a trillion-dollar reform will add to the nation's deficit burden should remember that these changes are intended to be deficit-neutral over the next decade."

Plow through the Senate traditions:
"...The approach is risky. Reconciliation bills are primarily intended to deal with budget items that affect the deficit, not with substantive legislation like health care reform.

Who knows if this will work:
"...So how much of the proposed health care reforms could plausibly fit into a reconciliation bill? The answer seems to be: quite a lot, though nobody knows for sure."

One party rule will work here:
"....Clearly the reconciliation approach is a risky and less desirable way to enact comprehensive health care reforms. The only worse approach would be to retreat to modest gestures in an effort to win Republican acquiescence"

Mace


You've got it all wrong. (4.00 / 2)
I think Daschle is actually acknowledging that his healthcare clients indulge in criminal behavior, and that everyone deserves an adequate defense.

Republican possibles (4.00 / 1)
Ironically, the Republicans are so much on the defensive here that Johnny Isaakson is listed as one of the two top possibles along with Olympia Snowe.  Johnny Isaakson?  Of Georgia??  If you ask me, our only shots with Collins definitely out are Snowe and Orin Hatch.  Hatch is actually pretty good on health care access (which is what this is) ranking 63rd overall according to Progressive Punch.  Not only is Hatch inclined but he might also be inclined to throw one big vote out there in honor of his friend Ted.

Voinovich is in his late 70s and is retiring in 2010.  I don't think he'll go for the lobbyist job so he's my third choice.  I don't have a fourth choice as I think Isaakson is not serious.


I take it then that Daschle agrees with the Supreme Court's ruling (4.00 / 1)
saying that money = speech, seeing as how he's more than willing to "talk" to these companies, with money, not words, being the primary medium of "discourse".

Sorry, Tom, if you think we're this dumb, then please don't "talk" to us anymore. They're paying you, they're not "talking" to you. And they're still doing brisk business with the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity and Palin. Seriously Tom, you're an idiot, and just shut up already.

And speaking of idiots, why are Dems still allowing foot-in-mouth-disease carrier John Kerry to represent them on ANYTHING? Today on This Week, he accepted Orrin Hatch's premise that Dems just want to increase the size of government with health care reform by uttering the following crapola:

No one is talking about a government-run, Washington-based health care plan. It's NOT what people are talking about.

No, John. This is EXACTLY what people are talking about, here on the left at least, because that's what a public option IS (let alone single payer, which is what we REALLY want), a "government-run, Washington-based health care plan"!!! And you know it!

As long as Dems and their surrogates keep apologizing for and watering down what the left actually wants and believes in, they will achieve nothing, and Repubs will continue to govern in abstentia, as they effectively have for the past 2.5 years.

I can only hope that they're doing this because they're in the pockets of special interests. Because if they're literally as stupid and weak as they sound, then we're fucked.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


Kinda significant… (4.00 / 3)
...that a mainstream editorial says "go all in" and doesn't link the strategy to progressive craziness or something like that. They call it "risky" but not unreasonable. It's like I mentioned here a couple of days ago: As conservative attacks get loopier and more unabashedly obstructionist, they give Obama and the Dem majority a bit of latitude. The key is to keep being perceived as much less ideological than they are.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

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