Cut To The Chase?

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Aug 30, 2009 at 21:00


I've always expressed a certain bewilderment about Barack Obama.  The things he does just don't make sense if you look at them at all carefully.  Or rather, they do make sense--but only if you make rather bizarre assumptions.  For example, assume on the one hand that (A) he actually does understand the basics of American political history, he knows that no major, transformational policy ever came from bipartisanship, he understands that he just won a realigning election, (B) he's spent years working within the Democratic Party, and (C) that he wants to utterly destroy the Democratic Party's chance for political dominance over the next 40 years.  If you accept those three premises, then the following makes perfect sense.

It was laid out exquisitely by Dday at Hullabaloo on Friday, "The Costs Of Reductive Thinking".  In it, he quoted Barack Obama from the Organizing for America strategy session on health care saying:

"So for about the same cost per year as we've been spending over the last five to six years, we could have funded this health care reform proposal, just to give you a sense of perspective."

And himself responding:

I don't know if I was the only one, but my immediate reaction was, "Um, well, why don't you do something about that?" I mean, sure, the costs of an unnecessary war in Iraq and a war headed toward quagmire in Afghanistan could have paid for the front end of health care reform. But they're both still raging, at a time when we have few national security interests in those regions, and certainly nothing that could not be handled with a diplomatic, law enforcement and intelligence approach rather than a military one.

So if the cost of the wars from 2003-2009 could pay for health care, the future costs from 2009-2019 could go a pretty long way in their own right.

It's particularly pernicious to find the President making this argument, when as commander-in-chief he has the ability to draw down forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. If he wants to make that kind of comparison, he ought to back it up.

I think that's what they call a "no-brainer."

Dday then pivots exquisitely to this:

Paul Rosenberg :: Cut To The Chase?
Yet this transcript from Bruce Reidel, who managed a lot of the policy reviews on Afghanistan and Pakistan for the White House, might offer an explanation of why he won't go that far.
    The triumph of jihadism or the jihadism of Al Qaeda and the Taliban in driving NATO out of Afghanistan would resonate throughout the Islamic World.This would be a victory on par with the destruction of the Soviet Union in the 1990s. And, those moderates in the Islamic World who would say, no, we have to be moderate, we have to engage, would find themselves facing a real example. No, we just need to kill them, and we will drive them out. So I think the stakes are enormous.

That's extremely dangerous thinking, as Matt Yglesias and Kevin Drum make clear. It's also not new thinking - it's basically what kept us in Vietnam for so long,...

It's not surprising to see establishment figures embrace such a reductive theory based on image and manliness. But the guy who just made the connection between the costs of war abroad and the betterment of the lives of citizens at home?

So, in other words, Obama was elected in a 1932-like moment, and he's acting just like guns-and-butter LBJ knowing ahead of time exactly how that will end.  Make every conceivable mistake that Johnson made (and none of the smart moves) plus the greatest hits of the Carter and Clinton eras, too.

What else could he be thinking? Fast forward from 1932 to 1968 in one 4-year term. Utterly and totally discredit the Democratic Party so quickly that people forget the GOP doesn't even have any policies anymore, aside from name-calling.

It makes perfect sense, and from a very simple set of premises.

Except, of course, why?


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Cut To The Chase? | 58 comments
it was a VERY weird moment (0.00 / 0)
I had the same reaction.

I personally think, though, that the reduced costs of the Iraq war (Obama still thinks he is ending that war) will be used to "reduce" the deficit. That's why it was put into the main budget to make a big deficit now.

But it doesn't have any political benefit and doesn't go against Paul's point here at all.



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


Thinks he's ending it? (4.00 / 1)
No, what he thinks is that the public believes he is ending it.  He never had any intention of bringing the Iraq war to a close.  Why else do you think he voted for virtually ever war-funding bill that came before him in the Senate?



[ Parent ]
He's Still Learning His Role? (0.00 / 0)
Maybe Obama still thinks he's a community organizer (and acts like one), not President of the United States?

The two roles have similarities but some differences. Maybe he hasn't realized what those differences are yet.


Nah (4.00 / 7)
A community organizer would have seen the opportunity to cut the field and pose healthcare reform as about a broad interest of regular, working people - who are tremendously insecure in their healthcare right now - against money-grubbing asshole corporations that have very narrow, pecuniary, and profit-driven interests of themselves at heart.  A good community organizer would have pressed for the most sweeping thing and been OK with a compromise that still fulfilled the needs of his or her big, broad constituency of people.  And a good community organizer would have relished the fight of it all.

Does that sound like healthcare went down?

Community (and union) organizers build and wield power for people; they are not social-service delivery providers or people who put together fun runs.  They are inspired and dedicated, warm-blooded but cold-eyed.  

Among my friends who are real organizers (and most of us come from an Alinsky-ite background), there is great distaste for Obama laying claim to some mantle as a community organizer.  He clearly learned little from that time - and it's no wonder that he quickly exited for "bigger" things.


[ Parent ]
Why indeed? (4.00 / 2)
He's thinking "I'm the first African American President and that is damn cool. No?"

And it is cool, but not enough, and this is where Obama needs to be enlightened. Once he realizes "the first African American President" could be his damnation, then he will have to grapple with the progressive agenda like the rest of us.

I honestly don't know anymore, if he has the personal character I thought he did.


And more (4.00 / 6)
People have been tossing around a number of $100 billion a year for universal health care for at least the last few years.  Obama puts $650 billion in for health care in 2009.  The program kicks in in 2013 (four years out) with a little phase in.  If sooner, Obama was desperately looking for savings from Medicarede, deals with Pharma, etc.  Why not sooner?  He has to make up the $350 nillion gap.  Depressing.  It took a i year lead in so ask for $900 billion ($950 billion to cover a few transitional costs).

I can say the same thing about the stimulus package that started too small.

I can say the same thing about repeating FDR's mistake with the Blue Dogs when he promises to start balancing the budget in the near future.  

I was hardly as positive about Obama as you were. I think he really does not care about a lot of these issues.  He cares about himself, about being loved by the establishment and the media and he does want to pass some kind of bill to leave a historical marker.  See.  I did something (even if not the best that could be done) about the important problems of the time.  I was loved and I was working on it, too.  Every problem has a starter bill that passed. ...

Johnson, in Vietnam, had two demons.  He was afraid of the whole Munich syndrome.  Giving in to Communism at the beginning might just grow a huge opponent who could have bben defeated at less cost.  Of course, McCarthyism had knocked off previous Democratic Senate leaders like Scott Lucas just before LBJ assumed the role.  Even if "Munich" was not factually true, it was "politically true" to Johnson.  Only 1966-68 was not 1950-52.  And Johnson left behind a lot of powerful legislation.

Guns and butter was over blown.  Johnson could easily afford both.  His last budget was a balanced budget (it took a small tax increase billes IIRC as a "surcharge").  The real inflationary drive came not from guns and butter but from rapidly rising oil prices going from $4 per barrel to $60 (back down a bit towards $40).  No Republican in the last 40 years produced a balanced budget or surplus.  Truman, Johnson, and Clinton all did it.


Yes, No, Maybe (4.00 / 1)
I was never very positive about Obama.  I did say that I thought Tom Hayden had the best argument, about the people Obama inspired.  And even before that I made the parallel to JFK, who inspired young people to go well beyond where he was interested in going.  Well, Obama's no JFK, that's for damn sure.  (Though people do forget that Kennedy did have Southern support--especially with Humphrey as the alternative--and had worked carefully to send different signals to different people.)

So now the question really comes down to those he inspired.  Are they up for going beyond him?  It hasn't looked that way so far, but history is full of surprises.  No one saw the 60s coming, either.  It was all "The Uncommitted," and how youth was alienated or apathetic.  So, you never know.

Oh, and about the "guns and butter" thing, that was not so much just Johnson's budget dilemma--quite real, thank you, do to congressional codgers like Wilbur Mills--but an allusion to the larger dilemma of how he felt trapped into fighting in Vietnam, and determined to do both.


"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Obama is the bucket of water (4.00 / 4)
next to your foot as you watch your house go up in flames:

you know it won't accomplish squat, but you throw it on the flames anyway.


[ Parent ]
A few superficial similarities (0.00 / 0)
with Obama-JFK--inspiring the youth, great speechmaking ability, some personal charisma, education.  But on FP matters, JFK had his WWII personal learning experience ("war is stupid" he wrote back to his family), and then as prez he learned first hand, from the BoP disaster, never to again trust the CIA and the fruit salad boys at the Pentagon.

Obama has no such personal military experience to draw on, and hasn't had that early misstep from which to learn how overrated these Pentagon brass are.  But he does have the historical record of the modern presidents to look at and study closely.  

JFK was a keen student of history.  Sen Obama chose wisely on AUMF, but as president the jury is still out.


[ Parent ]
Johnson just wildly (4.00 / 1)
overlearned and overreacted to the Munich lesson -- much as neocons would in the 70s and later.  He also badly misread the domestic political situation v-a-v Vietnam, and displayed some considerable political paranoia, when he said "A president would be impeached" if he allowed SVN to go commie.  There just wasn't any strong bipartisan pressure on the pres in 64 and early 65, either from Congress or the public, to go hellbent with US troops into a war 8,000 miles away -- while many cong'l leaders advised him not to go in.  

He only had some carping RW Repubs to deal with in 64 (Barry, Tricky) pushing him to do more in Nam, along with a few MSMers.  Once he had things in hand after the Nov 64 landslide, he was in a very strong political position to withdraw -- he had after all loudly pledged not to "send American boys to do the fightin' Asian boys ought do."

It was LBJ's stubborn and stupid rigidity, so unlike JFK's sophisticated and skeptical approach, and his own dark paranoia which led him to make the massive blunder in Nam.

I don't quite see Obama pulling an LBJ in Afghanistan -- not that he's impressed me so far with some of his moderately-conservative FP moves.  A situation to watch closely, however.  


[ Parent ]
You Need To Read "A Grand Delusion" (4.00 / 1)
The only book to deal with the Vietnam War in terms of congressional politics as well as presidential--and to extensively examine the formative conflicts of the 1950s--is A Grand Delusion: America's Descent Into Vietnam, and without reading it, I really think it's impossible to understand that war--particularly LBJ's role.  (Munich played no role, btw, at least not directly.)

Publishers Weekly:

Mann, a former Senate aide, puts Senate-president politics at the center of this masterful political history of America's involvement in Vietnam, which began with Truman's commitment to support the French in the wake of charges of "losing" China to the Communists. Many of the senators who attacked the Truman administration were isolationists who voted against the realistic anti-Communist institutions such as NATO and the Marshall Plan. Yet such contradictions mattered little, as the Democrats' disastrous political defeat in 1950 and 1952 convinced them to never let another "loss" be blamed on them. The twin strands of ideological surrealism and political realism interweave throughout Mann's account in various forms, illuminating the persistent patterns and underlying motivational logic of presidential lies and congressional acquiescence.

Eisenhower promised to end Truman's containment policy, but he delivered the Korean armistice and refused to fight in Vietnam. Two major congressional resolutions authorizing use of force led to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Johnson promised "no wider war" while escalating for fear of "losing" Vietnam. Mike Mansfield - the Senate's foremost Asia authority, as well as majority leader - opposed America's deepening involvement, but his concept of his institutional role made him publicly loyal to Johnson's policies, which in private he strove mightily to change.

Each participant responded distinctively to fundamental contradictions, brilliantly elucidated by Mann's highly nuanced account of presidential policy and the tortured evolution of Senate opposition. This book's unique perspective in illuminating Congress's role in the Vietnam War should permanently alter and deepen our understanding of that conflict.

Okay, I admit that I was PW's reviewer, so I'm just quoting myself. But I was right, dammit!

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Could you explain? (0.00 / 0)
Could you unpack this a little?

He cares about himself, about being loved by the establishment and the media and he does want to pass some kind of bill to leave a historical marker.  See.  I did something (even if not the best that could be done) about the important problems of the time.  I was loved and I was working on it, too.  Every problem has a starter bill that passed. ...

I don't know what's up with Obama.  But this description of his motivations, with all it's seeming hard "realism," doesn't make sense to me in terms of human behavior, at least not without elaboration.  Are you saying these are his conscious motivations?  That would only make sense to me if he was basically in it for the money.  Why else would anyone care about being loved by the establishment and media, rather than the public, especially since politicians who achieve transformational change inevitably end up loved by big chunks of both anyway, in fact create whole new establishments?  It would make sense if he actually thought more or less like the village himself, but that would require no selfishness, just foolishness.  Or he could be a wuss who's afraid of the disapproval of the establishment - but even then he must have to justify it to himself with something.  Your argument may seem obvious to you, but to me it lacks concreteness.


[ Parent ]
It's about lust for power, nothing more. (0.00 / 0)
Some people have absolutely no ambitions beyond wielding power, and it's as simple as that.  Obama's one of those types, and so was Bill Clinton during what passed for his political career.  Those whose ambitions transcend mere lust for power must be guarded against vigilantly, for they have the capacity toward great good (the Roosevelts) or great evil (Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes).  Still others hold good intentions, but for reasons of pride and arrogance usually screw things up mightily (Truman in Korea and Johnson in Viet Nam).

Obama's ambitions increasingly seem to go no further than winning power, but his political decisions indicate that he has no real desire to hold onto it any longer than he has to.  He's a follower who for whatever reason thought it would be fun to play at being a leader, and once he obtained the position he wanted, is now content to do nothing more than keep the dictatorial seat warm for the next Republican monsters looking to seize power and pick up right where Bush and Cheney left off.  If this is true, then to that end, Obama isn't going to make the work of the next Republican dictator in continuing the drive toward fascism at all difficult by trying to undo any of the horrors wrought over the last eight years and nine months.



[ Parent ]
Is it really power then? (0.00 / 0)
What's odd about politicians who fit this pattern (I still hope Obama doesn't, Clinton clearly did) is that in their desperation for office, they give up most real power in order to satisfy contributors, the media, their sense of what the public wants, etc.  Maybe it's more fame, recognition, adulation.

[ Parent ]
It probably does involve those things. (0.00 / 0)
In Orwell's 1984, Big Brother certainly needed his subjects to love him (to the exclusion of all else).  With a lust for power comes a need to be, if nothing else, accepted as the sole and legitimate holder of that power once it is obtained.



[ Parent ]
This brings up an interesting subject ... (4.00 / 2)
since it highlights a problem Krugman addresses in his most recent column .. meaning his Monday one .. why is Rahmbo so worried about corporate cash and 2010 for?  Does he really think that they'll be badly outgunned in 2010?  Has Obama sold his soul for corporate cash? .. is that what prevents him from being an FDR type?  Krugman seems to think so(if you ask me) .. and it sure has an influence .. since as Moyers showed .. it has already caused Obama to backtrack on a main campaign promise .. a promise Obama put in a commercial

I Dunno (4.00 / 2)
But I do think that blacks--like any minority in a similar situation--have always gone a little crazy trying to pass as white, which is metaphorically what Obama's trying to do in a way.

There's really no reason Obama should have had so little confidence in himself when so many others had so much.

Well, I guess it looks like he's fixing that now... but not in a good way.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Yep. He's still trying to please both sides of the fence (0.00 / 0)
The Black population will stick by him tho. After all, even with the DNA evidence, they stuck by OJ. I never talked to any Black who thought he was guilty. I did but I thought it was just payback time for all the lynchings, false imprisonment, innocent executions, pick ups DWB etc. No it seems they really thought he was innocent.

They will stick with him. That's his base.


[ Parent ]
odd comment (0.00 / 0)
It seems you've accused and convicted Obama of some crime in your mind.  


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

[ Parent ]
but if it doesn't fit (4.00 / 4)
then you must acquit.

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston


[ Parent ]
I've spoken with many black people who thought OJ was guilty. (4.00 / 2)
Perhaps you need to broaden your circles, given you seem fairly intent on establishing black cultural norms. Per the study linked here by educationaction, visibility of acceptable minority figures helps increase comfort levels with that minority- hence, the black population could stand to benefit from an Obama presidency, well apart from any policy specifics. It ain't a salvation, by any means, but it's a fucking start.

[ Parent ]
Obama himself doesn't do or decide anything. (4.00 / 4)
He is a spokesman*.

Look at the work history of his advisers and cabinet.

They are retreads from the previous administrations you accuse Obama of emulating. What else would you expect but retread policies?

As you know, we have real, civilization-threatening problems. I'm going to assert some things that can only be known retrospectively, but that I think are true none-the-less.

1. We have passed the point of no return.

2. Reform can still effect the scale of The Catastrophe, but not prevent it.

3. Unfortunately, we can pretty much write off any meaningful reform until The Catastrophe.

4. Which puts us in a moral cul-de-sac where we are obliged to try, given the theoretical possibility of some positive impact, while we know that effort will have no discernible practical impact.

My advice? Create a small-p presbyterian network of progressive communities which can offer humanistic shelter and as the system breaks down and perhaps help rebuild a new system along humanistic lines much as the Christians did during the late Roman Empire.

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...


A better example (4.00 / 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Figure out who wrote those 3x5 cards, and you know who really runs things.

It certainly isn't Obama.


[ Parent ]
And Obama has taken on this spokesman job why? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
When I first saw Obama evade his own rhetorical question on (4.00 / 10)
C-SPAN, in the same breath (I can't even remember the topic now), I knew we were in for this crap-as-substance narrative.  He just does this.  It is his method.

He is the wrong person at the right time.  The symbolism of his election is/was unbelievably potent, but the massive compromises needed to gain that symbolic victory, I suspect, are going to be a requiem for what really needed to happen in the 2008 election, or the 2012 election.  I know, blah, blah, blah.

He is so compromising on so many issues.

I lurk here.  I wish I could raise my contributions to the knowledge and insight level most here present.  It's just that every time Obama does this, it becomes a visceral reminder of my doubts of him doing the right thing.

FWIW.


I never trusted him, either. (4.00 / 2)
Everytime I listened to him, visions of Elmer Gantry popped into my head.  

Well, we're stuck with him until 2010.   What I want to know is how much longer are we doing to waste our time with more/better Dems?   Third party is a non-starter, unless one spontaneously rises out of the anger.   So now what?  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
Pelosi as O'Neill? (4.00 / 6)
For years in the 1970s and 1980s, Tip O'Neill governed.  Any President, be it Nixon, Carter or Reagan, had to come through Tip to get legislation passed through the House.  Tip and his block were more liberal (and often more specific) than the Presidents.  Even when Republicans controlled the Senate, the Tipster put brakes ona lot of their crap.

We never heard about Blue Dogs in those days.  Tip had to deal with a lot more conservatives than Pelosi faces today but the center-left that formed most of the caucus seemed mostly in control.  

Depending on the balances, sometimes it came out weaker than I'd like.  If the Republicans want to make Nacy Pelosi the villain, so be it.  The Progressive Block and Pelosi working together can work wonders.


[ Parent ]
Pelosi is no Tip O'Neil. (0.00 / 0)
O'Neil was at least willing to fight for what he believed in, and he didn't cave in to the GOP by allowing the bastards to politicize the justice system like today's Republicans successfully do.  Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the subhuman filth polluting the White House should've faced impeachment hearings the day after the 2007 session was sworn in, but Pelosi decided she'd rather help her Republican masters continue business as usual.



[ Parent ]
Who says it is? (0.00 / 0)
Third party is a non-starter, unless one spontaneously rises out of the anger.

Who says this?  Who makes you believe this nonsense?  The very people who benefit from there being no viable third party representing the left and, by extension, all of America.  The time to start building a viable third party was a long time ago, as many as thirty, but it's not too late to grow one or two of them now.  It won't get results overnight; it'll take a generation or more before a third party is built up enough to offer a real national-level challenge to the two corporate-backed ones.  But the longer we put if off, the more difficult it'll be and the later things will change - perhaps beyond all ability to salvage this nation and the rest of the world.

What we need now are ideas.  What have you got?



[ Parent ]
Why does the label matter? (0.00 / 0)
I want to elect genuine progressives.  Do you think we can elect more of these under a third party label than in Democratic primaries/as Democrats.  I'm not sure why this would be so.

[ Parent ]
At this point, it's better than the failed method we've been using. (4.00 / 1)
The problem is the influence of money in politics.  There simply is too much of it in the Democratic Party infrastructure to mount any meaningful reform from within that won't take at least twice as long to achieve the needed results we'd get with a third party.  The Progressives in Vermont crafted a very smart political strategy using the state's open political registration laws, and they've gotten substantial results.  Their strategy includes running candidates in areas where Democrats don't even bother putting them up, and into races where the Democratic candidate refuses to run leftward.  The result is in a Democrat forced to run a leftward campaign and, if he wins, govern from the left, or get a Progressive elected.  They now have five state representatives and a state senator in Vermont's legislature, which given the size of that body isn't exactly something to sneeze at.



[ Parent ]
Vermont is special. I'm positive it's in their drinking water. (0.00 / 0)
Dean, Sanders and now the great story you add about how Vermont is bucking the system.  Show me another place where that is happening?

Ideas?  Don't have any beyond not voting, voting against for spite, or leaving the country.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
Not voting is just as bad. (4.00 / 1)
Any one of the actions you describe accomplishes only one thing: signaling to the powerful in this country that, gripe as you may, you are perfectly content to leave things as they are.  It doesn't matter what your actual feelings are.  That is the message you send.

It's true that there are very few states in which the Progressive Party exists, and those same states only allow it to because their voting and registration laws are open rather than closed.  But that's why we need to start the process of forming - or reforming - political organizations now, where they are most needed.  The longer it's put off, the more difficult it will be when all other alternatives have become impossible.



[ Parent ]
Like all human beings, obama has a capacity for deceit ... (4.00 / 3)
... which seems to never ever enter some minds, so spellbound are they by his "changi-ness" and empathetic words that it is completely unfathomable to them that he is playing them.  

Any objective, knowledgeable person should be able to recognize by now that he has effectuated deceit ... plenty of it.  (Hell, emanuel didn't land into his cabinet like an asteroid. obama hired the dlc's master of deceit for God's sake.)

obama has said many things and done quite another:

He sold out on FISA first saying that he was against telecom immunity, then voted for it and mealy mouthed his way thru his defense of it

He sold out to wall street after saying stern words about their behavior.

He was missing from the conversations about both efca and cramdown allowing them to fall apart when he said he was for them during the campaign.

He sold out on the gay issues of which I am not very knowledgeable about.

He said he was going to change the trade treaties and he hasn't.  goalsbee predicted this and told the Canadian Premier that during the campaign that this was all just noise and despite emphatic denials by obama, goalsbee turned out to be right.

He told Israel that he was against the settlements and then looked the other way when they did them anyway.

He said he'd do everything in his power to stop the aig bonuses but he then, once the furor was dampened by an obama marketing media blitz on late night shows, went against a tax that would have gotten them back.

He said we was getting out of Iraq and then later defined getting out as leaving 50,000 soldiers IN Iraq.

He said that we needed a public option but now it is not so necessary.

He chastised the bush administration not negotiating better prices with the pharmas and not allowing people to buy their drugs in other countries, but then he sold out to those same pharmas on the same issues probably for campaign cash.  He hid this and had to be called out by tauzin on it.  

Basically he has said a lot of things and done something completely different ... or allowed something completely different to be effectuated (which appears to be his deceit of choice:  the passive deceit).  But people are still totally perplexed by the dichotomy of what he says and what he does ... desperately looking for some rationalization that begins by assuming that obama has good intentions and meant those words ... becoz he says them so eloquently.  Some are even affected emotionally ... empathy is a form of emotional bonding for some people.  

A lot of liberals have an emotional attachment to him ... it really is quite pathetic after all he has effectuated, all that he has sold out on.  Part of their attachment to obama also is derived from him being black.  They are so proud and happy that the country would vote in a black man as president that they have an emotional stake in this idea that electing him WAS change and everything would follow from that.  And some of it is probably that some folks in some weird way equate racism with criticizing him ... which is racism in itself.

You have to be completely spellbound by him at this point to not consider the possibility that he is not this brilliant and great hearted human that somehow doesn't understand what he is effectuating ... even though everything just happens to go the way of the people that gave him the most campaign money ... but instead is a deceiver ... knowingly and purposefully.

Maybe people shouldn't get so caught up in his words, and their emotions, becoz his words don't mean anything ... obviously.  I think they've been deceived ... and they've also deceived themselves.

Z  


I saw the deceit (4.00 / 4)
I just didn't expect this much of it, so soon. Nor did I expect the political incompetence (if that's what it is, because the only alternative explanation I can think of, being in the pockets of special interests, is too depressing to contemplate). I saw through the hype but believed that behind it was a man of some competence and firmness. I had no idea that I'd be proven so wrong on both, so fast. I can only hope that he's more a fool than an outright liar and con man. A fool can learn from his mistakes and develop into something substantial. A liar and con man usually stays that way for life.

I suspect that he made the mistake of buying into the hype and not looking too deeply into the mirror, and that as all his markers are coming due, he's in for a VERY rude awakening soon, if he doesn't clean up his act. He can't keep trying to please both the public and special interests, while avoiding a confrontation with either. Sooner or later, he will be forced to make some choices that he can no longer talk his way out of or which will be smoothed over by Obamamania, and that's when we'll find out what he's really made of.

But right now, I think that he still doesn't get it, that he can't keep breaking his promises and keep the public's trust. And one's he's lost it, he's political toast.

We elected a talented amateur as president. We'll see how talented he really is, very soon.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


[ Parent ]
I didn't expect this much deceit this soon either ... (4.00 / 1)
... it's been much worse than I thought it would be.

Z


[ Parent ]
I expected it. (0.00 / 0)
If, after evaluating any politician on his or her record you find a capacity for deceit, then always expect the worst-case scenario.  There's really no excuse for casting a ballot for a monster only to act shocked and appalled when he behaves according to his nature.

Having said that, since you recognize the problem, what do you think the solution is?  The lame strategy of electing "more and better" Democrats has failed utterly.  The DLC made sure of that.  I have a fairly good idea, namely, building a third party that can if nothing else force the Democrats back to the left.  Yet so few of us on the left seem willing to make that necessary break from the party.  They are prevented by a fear they can neither acknowledge or accept.  So what's to be done?  Seriously, I am open to ideas.



[ Parent ]
Obama is a cipher (4.00 / 5)
In part because he wants to be one, to keep people guessing, and which makes some sense in politics (although the most famous cipher in US history, Aaron Burr, the would-be American Tallyrand, is hardly the role model to emulate). But also, I think, because he is a cipher to himself and those who know him best. So many people who've known him have commented that, coming away from a serious discussion with him on a given subject, you realized that he was really smart and well-informed, but you had no idea where he stood on it. And my guess is that it was because he DIDN'T have a stand on the issue, nor does he really have a stand on any issue. I think that he wants to always reserve for himself the right to change his mind, or course, and that to pull this off, he makes sure to never be too clear just how he really stands on any given issue. Basically, he's Hamlet, not just in action, but in thought.

Oy Vay!

I don't think that this is all that he's about, of course. I also think that by nature he likes to bring both sides together and devise solutions that satisfy all. That silly "beer summit" with Gates and Crowley was so typical of how Obama operates, overstating the utility and possibility of bringing both sides together prematurely and artificially, achieving the illusion of resolution without its actuality. (I shudder to think what a mideast peace summit hosted by Obama would be like. It could very well make matters worse there.) That where his whole bipartisan shtick comes from--in part at least.

He's also very much a centrist corporatist establishmentarian modern Democrat who may have mastered the style of confrontational progressivism (which is really the only kind, because progress always opposes the forces of stasis and regression), but clearly not its substance, who when he's not out stumping at some town hall with jus' folks, is actively campaigning for corporate donations. He is very much a Clintonite in this respect (actually, in most respects, except in temperment, in which he bests Clinton).

And, finally, he's just a weak politician, for a president at least, hiding behind bipartisanship and pragmatism to mask his political cowardice and fear of confrontation, and forever seeking a middle ground whether or not it exists or is tenable. How else to explain his unending shoutouts to Enzi and Grassley as they daily humiliate him and reject even the mildest of Dem proposals? He really is embarrassing himself there.

These are all different aspects of one overall MO, I believe, and define him as a politician. There might be a "there" there, but it's clearly not anywhere near the hype. We were sold hope but we got hype. He had what it took to win big, but he lacks what it takes to govern well, in terms of character, judgement and perhaps even intellect (I can't help but feel sometimes, when he perorates on this or that topic in impressive detail, that he's merely parroting some think tank piece he read a few years ago or was briefed on by some aide--and the way that he stumbles when asked unexpected questions makes one wonder).

Something's just not right, that needs to be. Something is just lacking. I can only hope that it's not so fundamental that it's long past the point of fixing. But I fear that it is.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


He's not a weak politician, at least not compared to other Dems... (0.00 / 0)
Which is why this has been so surprising...

And, finally, he's just a weak politician, for a president at least, hiding behind bipartisanship and pragmatism to mask his political cowardice and fear of confrontation, and forever seeking a middle ground whether or not it exists or is tenable. How else to explain his unending shoutouts to Enzi and Grassley as they daily humiliate him and reject even the mildest of Dem proposals? He really is embarrassing himself there.

This is classic "old dem" behavior... Please love me, Republicans... I'll do anything for you.  I expect as much from Reid, Hoyer, Baucus, Conrad, etc...  I didn't expect it from Obama 'cos he has been one of the few Democrats that is actually politically aware enough NOT to do it.  He doesn't have the loser mentality like other Dems.  I don't know what Axelrod is seeing in his polling, but what he's seeing is dead wrong.  Obama's lost popularity points 'cos he's looking weak.  When someone slaps you in the face like Grassly and Enzi do, and you don't fight back to defend yourself, the people feel that you won't fight for them either.  Most Democratic politicians do not understand that philosophy at all.  I thought that Obama would (he's been very good this year up until this point), but he's not doing it.

Of course, last August was the same kind of thing... and in September, we were already writing obituaries for the campaign... so, maybe he has a surprise up his sleeve.  At the moment, though, he's looking like every typical "old school" Democrat... very weak and conciliatory.  That inspires little confidence or approval.

Perhaps once we finally cut Enzi and Grassley loose, maybe he'll open up a can of whipass... I doubt it, though....  Why the hell were these people even onboard in the first place?  I'm not entirely sure that's his fault, either.  he can't control Grassley and Conrad, the latter doing more to sabotage his agenda than any republican... Maybe, like the rest of us, he's at the mercy of the small state senators.  What a shitty system that whole thing is, huh...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Not to go all Gumpy, but weak is as weak does (4.00 / 4)
He may be "strong" on an intellectual level, in knowing what's really going on here (although I'm beginning to question even that now), but he's clearly been weak on a practical political level. I can't think of one issue in which he's twisted arms or gotten as good a deal as he could have had he played hardball.

Now, you can't do this on every issue. That burns up a lot of political capital. Nor do you need to. Some things you achieve via other means, some things you achieve because everyone fears you because you played hardball on other issues, and some things you just can't achieve, and give up on them. But he's not done it on ANY issue.

So I can't help but think that either he's sold out, is incredibly foolish, or just doesn't want to get bloodied and bruised. Or all three. Yikes!

And, of course, being an egomaniac, as all politicians at this level are, he's filtering out all the criticism, or having others filter it out for him. As a former boss of mine used to say, he's "having a conversation with himself", which is a surefire road to failure. Even the smartest people need to hear and take seriously contrary opinions. Especially on matters in which others have had more experience. But Obama knows better, so no need to listen.

If he falls, it'll be 100% his fault.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


[ Parent ]
To believe some of your beliefs, you have to believe ... (4.00 / 4)
... that it is a mere coincidence that the winners that emerge out of his "desire to please "everyone"" just happen to be his biggest campaign donors.  I haven't seen him betray their interests yet, not in action ... or inaction.  And there is enough data out there now to recognize patterns to what he effectuates and to whom he serves.

So many people are playing 81-dimensional chess with themselves trying to explain why he isn't what he does ... and doesn't do ... but instead is what he says he'll do ... even though he doesn't do it.

Z


[ Parent ]
i've always thought he was a republican (4.00 / 4)
not the far far right neocon kind, just a nice ordinary middle of the road kind, maybe a dwight eisenhower kind. in fact, i've thought this of many a democrat, and not just the blue dogs. all the third way types, be they new democrat or dlc or whathaveyou could have been moderate republicans 40 years ago.

he went to chicago because it's an epicenter of black politics, but to be a politician in chicago is to be a part of the democratic machine, and from there....


And Republicans don't vote for (4.00 / 2)
African Americans. The only way an African American can climb the ladder in Republican politics is by appointment, which requires an even more servile mentality.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Not quite the same argument (4.00 / 1)
I read dday's post and thought he misframed what President Obama said. (Steve Benen, whom dday refers to, frames it properly.)

Obama wasn't saying "If we weren't spending or hadn't spent the money we spent in Iraq or Afghanistan in the last five years, we could have funded or could now fund this health care reform proposal" (to which dday could say "well, why don't you do something about that?"). That's an argument you'd make to illustrate how resources allocated in one way (presumably, an incredibly wasteful way) could be better allocated elsewhere, or, perhaps, can't be allocated elsewhere because they've already been spent.

Obama was saying, essentially (to the conservative argument that health care is a $10 trillion cost over 10 years), "If you compare the cost per year of what we're spending in Iraq and Afghanistan to the cost per year for health care reform, those costs are comparable" (to which dday's question of "why don't you do something about that?" makes, well, not a whole lot of sense). The subtext is, if you didn't complain about the costs in Afghanistan/Iraq,(you conservatives), you can't complain about these health care costs.

dday, you (Paul) and I can argue with what Obama said or infer the first from the second or say that he should have made the first argument rather than the second or that any idiot would make the first argument rather than the second. But dday calls an argument Obama didn't make "pernicious." Perhaps if he had made that argument, that would be pernicious, but, well, that's a different argument altogether.  


Dday Was Guilty Of Thinking While Listening (4.00 / 1)
[ Parent ]
Ha, you'd think Dday would have learned <i>not</i> to do that (4.00 / 1)
after listening to eight years of the previous President's logic-free utterances.

[ Parent ]
I see no basis (4.00 / 4)
for assumption A.

Yes, yes, I know, everyone always says he's a genius, a 10 dimensional chess playing jedi and all that.

But have we actually seen any evidence of this?

Montani semper liberi


I Don't See Evidence For It Either (4.00 / 2)
I'm just trying to construct a logical framework to explain his actions, in order to underscore how totally bizarre they are.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
Why ask why? (4.00 / 1)
Obama's intention has always been about one thing, and one thing only: gaining power.  Being any sort of transformational leader was never on his agenda.

(Random Train of Thought - I'd include keeping it, but he doesn't even seem motivated enough to do that.  I'm starting to get the feeling that, rather than obtain ultimate political power for himself, Obama's goal was and is simply to keep the office of the presidency warm until the next Republican dictator comes into power so he can pick up right where Bush and Cheney left off.  He's a bench-warmer executive, merely keeping things as they are, just as Clinton was - except that at least Clinton had a sense of political self-preservation.  What's scary is not that this is likely, but that it would come as a shock to anyone or even seem all that unlikely.)



whatever his reason, if Obama is gonna take Dems down as a brand (4.00 / 2)
and we can't stop him --- really, we can't --- then maybe it's time for us to start thinking post-Democratic ourselves.

The point is that Obama really can and will sink the Democratic party and all of us with it if left to his own devices, or maybe even in spite of anything we say or do.  The institutional Democratic party will not stop him.  The Democratic party of voters only exists once every year or two at election time, but the institutional party of big contributors, corporate media pundits, lobbyists and the like meet and confer and socialize and whatnot every day with each other.  And while they aren't listening to us, they are, like the president the other day, playing golf with the biggest money launderers on the planet.  

We need to get over brother Obama, and maybe over Democrats and our two-party duopoly too.  It's not like  the president played golf withare with Obama on all counts.  They are the permanent Democratic party, not people like you or me or the readers and writers at Open Left.

Maybe the healthiest thing to do is to let Obama and his campaign contributors and enablers take that contaminated brand down the drain with them, and build something else.  Maybe it's time to start thinking post-Democratic.

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston


Voters Have Deep Attachments, Though (4.00 / 1)
So there are very real limits on what activists can do.

That doesn't mean that I think your scenario is impossible, just that we need to be realistic about how hard it is, and the magnitude of forces that need to be in play.

But I've clearly contemplated it myself in my diary "Two Party Fail".  In it I wrote:

While the realignment of 1932 is the most archetypal and among the most consequential, it can be quite misleading to think of it as the model.  Indeed, there were two realignments in which one of the parties was totally destroyed, and other was radically transformed.  In view of how little "change we can believe in" is actually happening post-2008, and how utterly blob-like the GOP has become, perhaps it's worth considering the possible lessons we might draw from the realignments of 1828 and 1860, both of which revolved around slow-moving scenarios in which both major parties failed in fundamental ways, two of them so profoundly that they ceased to exist.


"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
Exactly. (0.00 / 0)
Check out my entries regarding platform-building.  Any new progressive political party needs a platform to start with, something for members to rally around.  Once that's done, finding candidates willing to bloody their noses in strategic local elections is the next step.



[ Parent ]
Maybe there is no "why" (0.00 / 0)
Is it not possible that effectively and efficiently running the American Empire is simply too massive an undertaking for any one Presidential administration?

The US is, at once, too big to fail and too big to manage.

The simply "why" behind the apparent contradictions in Obama (or even Bush before him) is "because". No conspiracy. No hidden agenda. Just too much of everything. Too many demands, too many bills, too much political second-guessing, hand-wringing, and outright resentment. The limit of human endeavor and skill. Civilization, as envisioned by theorists and philosophers, is not something that humans are all that good at creating.

Perhaps the Empire is collapsing under its own weight?

Or, maybe I just need a few more hours of sleep...


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


It's A Rational Reconstruction! (0.00 / 0)
Look, I wasn't trying to explain Obama's behavior.  Like I said, I find it inexplicable.  I was trying to underscore its bizarre character by presenting a set of assumptions that could explain it in such a way that's bizarre nature would become apparent.

Your comment, I'm afraid, stricks me as going in the opposite direction--obfuscating, rather than clarifying.

Is it not possible that effectively and efficiently running the American Empire is simply too massive an undertaking for any one Presidential administration?

When exactly did anyone "effectively and efficiently" run the American Empire?  And what does that have to do with the issues Dday discussed?

If anything, the Iraq and Afghan wars are utterly counterproductive to the American Empire as a whole.  They represent the triumph of a collection of influential parts over the interests of the whole.

I'm not talking here about GOP/conservative elites vs. the American people.  I'm saying that what they're doing isn't even in the best interests of those at the pinnacles of American power.  See also my Saturday diary on the Bush vs. Clinton economies, showing that the top 0.01% are out $40 million per due to Bush under-performing Clinton.

We need to keep these questions separate and distinct just as much as we need to never forget that they're interrelated.  "That's just the way empires are" explains everything and nothing.  We need to do better than that.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Last line of your diary: (0.00 / 0)
Except, of course, why?

Appears to contradict your comment in response:

Look, I wasn't trying to explain Obama's behavior.

The relationship to dday and your own diary is that, perhaps, by focusing on a bunch of trees, you are forgetting that they are part of a forest.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
No! No! No! No! No! No! No! (4.00 / 1)
An essay has a rhetorical structure as well as (hopefully) a logical structure.

The last line of my diary is the rhetorical return to the forest-wide viewpoint after carefully surveying all the trees.

High school English folks.  High school English.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Obama believes deeply in American institutions of power (0.00 / 0)
He's always expressed this beilef, at least back to his campaign kickoff speech in Springfield, and IIRC even back to his 2004 Convention speech.  He genuinely believes that our system of governance -- broadly construed -- works well, and achieves good ends, as long as it's not corrupted by excessive partisanship and petty fights and being distracted by "childish things."

He's a goo-goo.  A very intelligent, charismatic goo-goo, but a goo-goo none the less, and I personally think that should have been obvious to anyone who bothered listening to what he's said over the last 2 years or so.  I don't know why it's so surprising that he's reluctant to step on toes in the Establishment, or to rock the boat too much.

So he won't demonize insurance companies or the GOP because he genuinely believes that if we can all sit at the table together (yes, including the GOP and Big Insurance) and if we're all there with open ears and open hearts and open minds, then we can reach a consensus on how to serve the Public Good -- and I suspect that he would have more faith in that consensus solution than in anything he could come up with on his own.  

I personally think all that is pie in the sky, but I'm pretty sure it's how he sees the world.  That's how he spoke when he was just the junior Senator for Illinois, and winning control of the White House sure as hell isn't going to make him more sympathetic to opponents of institutional power in DC.

FWIW, to the extent that he sees himself as a new Lincoln, I think he's way off base.  The Republicans in the 1860s were the home of radicals, folks who really did want to revolutionize American society.  Lincoln could play a moderate foil to his party in those circumstances.  Clearly, the contemporary Democratic Party is nothing like that, so there's no way to be President Lincoln today.

So, in the end, the guy in charge of the Forbidden City isn't on the side of the peasantry milling outside the palace walls. He's not nearly as bad as the other Emperor would have been, but he's not on our side.  Big shock.  


Cut To The Chase? | 58 comments
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