Echoes of Iraq

by: Adam Bink

Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 21:00


I'm not as interested in foreign policy/national security issues as I am other issues, but a lot of the writing on Afghanistan lately has got me thinking. Derrick Crowe has a good piece over at The Seminal discussing Obama Administration officials' unwillingness/reluctance to define victory in Afghanistan, and how so far the objectives of securing support for the regime have not gone well.

On the victory front, it's like they've learned their lesson from Bush's "Mission Accomplished" flap a little too hard. I give them credit for the strategy, to some extent- if you define victory, and turn out to be completely wrong, as Bush was, it blows up in your voice. If you even muse at what victory might look like, you risk, as Derrick argues, public discussion/debate on that front. I can see dozens of panel discussions and Atlantic magazine pieces on the topic.

On the other hand, if you refuse to define victory or publicly state goals, the questions over stonewalling become equally as bad. As do the concerns that we'll be stuck in a never-ending campaign there, spending billions of dollars to achieve an objective that isn't defined. That's where the Administration finds itself now, and it runs the risk of turning into a version of Iraq, which is what has me so concerned. The drumbeat has started.

In early July, Sen. Kerry pledged to hold hearings this fall as chair of the Foreign Relations committee. Before that, Rep. McGovern said this during the floor debate on the funding bill:

"I'm sick and tired of wars that have no exits, deadlines or an end," an anguished McGovern said. "We owe our troops and their families much better. "

"And I'm deeply concerned about how long we will be able to sustain and pay for an expanded military presence in Afghanistan. I simply want to know, 'What is the exit strategy that brings our servicemen and women home?'"

If you switched the word "Afghanistan" with "Iraq" in that statement, you wouldn't notice the difference. That's what concerns me so much. This pounding will only get louder on this topic, as it should. Robert Greenwald took a trip to Afghanistan recently and he and Brave New Films just released a new documentary on the topic (reminder, you can support our projects at OpenLeft by purchasing it through this link). Today, we find out the Administration is considering sending more troops, up to 20,000, there after committing another 21,000 this year. Does this have echoes of Iraq for anyone else?

Let me be clear: I'm for having the necessary amount of troops on the ground to win the war, within reason. My problem is with the Administration's refusal to lay out what is victory and how we will achieve it. If the phrase "no exit strategy" enters the American lexicon again, not only will it hurt Obama, it causes folks like me to become angry at an Administration that comes across as thinking the public isn't smart enough to understand global geopolitics and thus isn't entitled to a straight answer on the topic. Like Chris wrote today, Iraq was the major contributing factor to the GOP losing the 2006 elections. I believe the issue was not only defined by America losing the war and that being unpopular, but by the public being furious that there was no clear line of victory, and no exit strategy. I do not want to be swallowed by Afghanistan in 2010 for the same reasons.

Update: A new CBS poll comes out showing 48% approve of Obama's handling of the situation in Afghanistan, down from 56% in April. 40% say they want troops levels decreased.

Adam Bink :: Echoes of Iraq

Tags: , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Echoes of Iraq | 12 comments
Let me be clear: (4.00 / 2)
I disagree that there is a "necessary amount of troops on the ground [which could] win the war."  The Afghanistan conflict (war suggests two clear sides, which is certainly not the case) will only be ended when the combatants decide politics is a better way to advance their interests. An increased troop presence inflames the situation - that is, it makes it worse.  My problem with not answering the questions you asked is that I believe it's because the answers to those questions are indefensible.

That said, regardless of where you come down on this, these questions ought to be answered. And if the moral and security reasons for that are not enough, certainly the political ones ought to be.

Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


Very true (0.00 / 0)
Again, showing how not well-versed I am in military affairs, merely the domestic political implications of them. Thanks for pointing out.

Get your copy of The Progressive Revolution
Me on Facebook

Me on Twitter


[ Parent ]
Good news and bad news and more bad news and.... (0.00 / 0)
The good news is Obama is about to define clear benchmarks for Afghanistan:

The White House has assembled a list of about 50 measurements to gauge progress in Afghanistan and Pakistan as it tries to calm rising public and congressional anxiety about its war strategy.

The bad news is 50 measurements is far to many to define success.  Do we need to average 90% across all measures to "win"?  That doesn't work too well, does it.

While defining success seems like an obvious necessity, it doesn't actually help that much unless you know that reaching it or not reaching means.  For example, once can logically assume if we  succeed, we should leave.  Also, one could assume we leave on failure as well.  Combined, it means after some amount of time we should leave, period.

The fact is, people aren't being obtuse when the fail to define success.  They don't define it because it is actually very hard to define.  No one is ever going to surrender.

Way back when our real goal, stated or not, was get bin Laden and those he worked with directly.  That would have been fantastic.  But it didn't happen.

Now it is all about mitigating worse case scenarios and trying to improve our lot.  While I can see how some military involvement can help, it can't be much.  The escalation going on now seems to serve no real purpose other than the small scale priorities and missions going on in the country.  It is all trees and no forest.


Maybe we should grade on a "curve"? (0.00 / 0)
"Do we need to average 90% across all measures to "win"? "


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
You can't win an occupation. (4.00 / 2)
You can only choose your level of humiliation (and longer is worse).

Obama should know this. I thought he was smart?

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Maybe he's trying for a lesser level of humiliation? (0.00 / 0)
You know, a 21st century version of "peace with honor".

Not that I expect he'll attain that goal. But it could be part of his thought process.

On the other hand, I'm one who believes that the pentagon (at least some compartmented section of it) embodies the functional "Commander in Chief" role. They let the Presidents parade around and give the illusion of control, but they control the $ and they have most of the guns. When an administration like Bush/Cheney is in the WH, the desires of the military elites and the executive are aligned and plans move forward. Like boxing in Iran. When a less obviously neo-con inspired administration is in the WH, the process slows - but it will not stop. I'll go on record right now with a prediction: the US will still maintain and have troops stationed at multiple military bases on the day President Obama's second term ends. We'll still have a domestic spying program and we will still have a mechanism by which to attempt to legalize (or at least normalize) particular acts of torture.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Oy! (4.00 / 3)
Let me be clear: I'm for having the necessary amount of troops on the ground to win the war, within reason.

Even though David's comment has already said what needed to be said, I can't help but add this question:  Where, within reason, would you expect to come up with this magic number? (This isn't a trick question.)


When an empire reaches the point (4.00 / 2)
where it is completely dependent on resources that can only be acquired by foreign wars, it is in bad shape.

When it is dependent on mercenaries to fight those wars, forget about it!

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Victory in Afghanistan? (4.00 / 3)
Same as in Iraq.

Establishing and maintaining a ground-based US military presence in nations that border Iran. That is the standard set by the Cheneyists and other neo-cons. That is the goal the present administration seems to have accepted.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


they won't define victory (0.00 / 0)
because part of what they want to do, even if they won't emphasize it, is catch Bin Laden. Why? Can you imagine the electoral gold catching/killing Bin Laden would bring? But they can't say so because 1) if they don't catch him they end up looking impotent and 2) it's leaves open the possibility of open-ended war.

Does every day begin tabula rasa (4.00 / 3)
The whole "win vs lose" argument ignores what I like to call the Military Industrial Complex.

We are there to make money for a lot of well connected and violent people.

And we wont leave until we have the balls to call it like it is to the American people.

I hate what could be termed "Middlespeak".


war profiteering (4.00 / 2)
I agree. The military is not the best tool to fight terrorism, as proven by Bill Clinton's  success with the perps of the first world trade center bombing, in just one example. The rest of the world is slowly comming around to this point of view, but the profiteers are deeply intrenched. The longer we continue to swat at flies with a Buick the more wasted blood and treasure on both sides. If any victory was the goal, we would withdraw our military and pursue the methods that have worked well in the past, good, solid law enforcement using the existing court system.

Government by organized money is no better than government by organized mob..... FDR

[ Parent ]
Echoes of Iraq | 12 comments
Donate to Open Left









QUICK HITS

Friends of the Earth thanks the OpenLeft community for the ideas you generate and your contributions to the progressive movement.


blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search