Obama Health Care Speech Thread

by: Adam Bink

Wed Sep 09, 2009 at 19:30


We'll be live-blogging the speech starting at 8 PM EST. Feel free to use this thread to make predictions, commentary, and estimating the likelihood the Republicans will have an army of grandmas spinning the press afterwards. Virginia Foxx, it's your time to shine.

Pre-speech update: Via Quick Hits, Mark Matson points to a list of folks who will be featured in Michelle Obama's box. It's an interesting list- one small business owner who can't afford to provide insurance, several people struggling to pay tens of thousands of dollars in bills, several that hit on the insurance companies paying so little in coverage or increased premiums 500% or have a lifetime cap. At the end of nearly every story there is a "under health insurance reform, there will be no recissions" or something similar. Nothing specifically on the public option, although a lot on how insurance will be more affordable in the exchange.

Pre-speech update 2: Rep. Charles Boustany (R-LA) will be delivering the response. Excerpts: a lot of the usual "we agree reform is needed", how much Dems will cut Medicare, increase the size of gov't, etc. The DNC's pre-buttal on him is here.

Pre-speech update 3: Random thought on Michelle's box- every single person in that box looks completely healthy and dressed in their Sunday best. Perhaps a better idea to have better visuals of those who are sick and struggling?

Pre-speech update 4: I have a weird feeling the Republicans will stand up en masse and wave their birth certificates at Obama.

Speech update: President Obama starts by discussing the economic recovery. "I will not let up until those who seek jobs can find them"- nice line, but probably smacked around by the Republicans the next several years.

Speech update 2: "There are now more than thirty million American citizens who cannot get coverage."- how does this reconcile to the 46 million number we usually hear?

Speech update 3: "On the right, there are those who argue that we should end the employer-based system and leave individuals to buy health insurance on their own." This is not the best attack on conservatives' plan.

Speech update 4: "First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have." Why does this promise leave out people with individual coverage?

Speech update 5: He starts laying out "what this will do for you", which I think is the real key. There's been too much "don't worry, that's not in my bill!" lately. Points.

Speech update 6: "This exchange will take effect in four years, which will give us time to do it right.  In the meantime, for those Americans who can't get insurance today because they have pre-existing medical conditions, we will immediately offer low-cost coverage that will protect you against financial ruin if you become seriously ill." Who is the we here?

Speech update 7: "And unless everybody does their part, many of the insurance reforms we seek - especially requiring insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions - just can't be achieved." I understand the economic rationale, but it seems weird to make that promise earlier in the speech and then tell people they have to buy insurance first.

Speech upate 8: Shocking! He uses the word "lie" to refer to death panels. Not often heard.

Speech update 9: CNN reports it was Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) who shouted "liar" at Obama when he said the reform would not cover illegal immigrants. Woah.

Speech update 10: Pretty good language re motives of insurance companies. Reminds me of Anthony Weiner's diatribe.

Speech update 11: Re public option, a lot of hey, don't worry, it won't affect you, and CBO says only 5% of people will sign up. No reason to be scared of it. Good analogy re public vs. private universities that peacefully coexist.

Speech update 12: "To my progressive friends, I would remind you that for decades, the driving idea behind reform has been to end insurance company abuses and make coverage affordable for those without it.  The public option is only a means to that end - and we should remain open to other ideas that accomplish our ultimate goal."

Speech update 13: Says he is open to exploring co-ops. Awesome. Why are we still playing this game?

Speech update 14: I find it weird there's a dozen people with health care stories in Michelle's box, but he doesn't do the usual gesture and explain thing. And he only mentions two stories in the entire speech.

Speech update 15: Interesting to mention the Intermountain Healthcare in Utah and Geisinger Health System in PA. Usually it's Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic. And there's someone sitting in Michelle's box who works for a model clinic in DC.

Speech update 16: Re malpractice reform, it seems he's directing Sebelius to establish a "blue ribbon commission" sort of idea.

Speech update 17: Touting that the costs of this are less than the cost of Iraq and the cost of tax cuts for the rich strikes me as weird. It's like buying an $80,000 car and saying at least you didn't spend as much as your brother who spent $90,000. There isn't a better analogy?

Speech update 18: I've decided it's my goal to have the Administration mention the word "blog" "blogging" or "blogger" to a joint session of Congress in a positive context before the end of this term. First ever?

Speech update 19: As we near the end, what overall letter grade would you give the speech, and why?

Speech update 20: Apparently the Republicans were holding up copies of their own bills to demonstrate they have plans. Not exactly the most effective prop.

Speech update 21: Yes We Can chant FTW?

Speech update 22: And he's done. The White House just e-mailed out "The Obama Plan" on their website. What are the talking heads on teevee saying?

Some final thoughts: I would give the style an A, the substance a B+. The language re public option was fairly weak. He seems to always want to minimize it- reassuring people it's an option, no one has to take it, would not impact you if you already have insurance, and CBO says less than 5% of Americans would sign up. Perhaps it's a 42-dimensional chess game to try and draw the public's attention away from it. Perhaps it's to win over members like Snowe. Not sure. Not thrilled, though.

Needed to have more stories, esp stories on people's costs. There wasn't a single mention on people's costs going out of control. There were only 2 horror stories, despite lots of stories to train the cameras on in Michelle's box. Would have liked to have it more focused on the public in that regard.

Updates #3,4, 6 and 7 above were not strong language, in fact somewhat confusing. Language on co-ops is ridiculous- that crap needed to be shut down once and for all. Language attacking the insurance companies was good. Language re Medicare/seniors was good, as was going after critics, saying "lie", discussing how this can't wait.

Adam Bink :: Obama Health Care Speech Thread

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Snowe and Public Option (4.00 / 2)
It looks like Snowe specifically asked Obama to drop the PO from his speech.  Yet, I still here talk that he will defend the PO in the speech.  "Defend" isn't as good as "promote", but it is the best I was hoping for.  I'm curious to see how this plays out tonight.  I'm also curious if he mentions the word "trigger" or not.

trigger is now the new center (0.00 / 0)
My take on it is that the way everything will play out has already been hashed out through Snowe's talks with Obama.

Obama will use tonight to rally liberal hopes for health care reform and say some good things about the public option. But, he'll end up backing the trigger option as a way to get Snowe onboard.

So Snowe gets what she wants and Obama gets applause from the beltway media as willing to buck his base and compromise.



[ Parent ]
Here's the deal I'd contemplate (0.00 / 0)
We'll take the trigger as long as the Progressive Caucus gets to write the trigger and Public Option legislation.

We all know a trigger will be a trigger in name only.  As long as it is our trigger in name only, virtually guaranteeing we see a strong public option, I'll take it.  If Snowe is looking for some kind of strange "victory" and only needs to look like she got something, then I'll give this to her to pass the bill.

But anything short of that and it is a no-go.


[ Parent ]
I'd be willing to go along with too and that's a major concession from my point of view (4.00 / 1)
but the chances of that happening are as likely as me flying to the moon so it's a moot point.


[ Parent ]
Fly me to the moon (0.00 / 0)
Let me sing among those stars
Let me see what spring is like
On jupiter and mars
:-*

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Ok, that's debatable. However, the trigger has to be "hot" immediately... (4.00 / 1)
..and not going active in 2013! Any further delay is unacceptable. After the (likely) failure of the insuirers to meet the benchmarks, the trigger has to be pulled immediately and there has to be a public option available less than a year later. However, this still is a risky approach, and regarding the solid progressive block now, I don't see why it should be necessary.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
No to a Trigger, Yes to a Pilot (0.00 / 0)
with a Trigger.

Completely off the top of my head:  I propose a public option pilot be conducted.  The pilot would depend on states signing up, and would require enough people participate to be meaningful.  I would suggest this means at least states with 50 million in population agree, and then the PO should mirror as much as possible the principles that Hacker set out.  The plan could be based on top of the structure that is used by one of the states to provide health care to government employees.

This would rapidly become a become a blue state pilot, with large northeastern states participating, and would I think get large enough economies of scale to be meaningful.

It would have a limit, and would not be sunset unless the states participating agreed.

I do not like a trigger - we need something real to change the structure of the debate.  A large pilot can do that while addressing the fears of red state dems who can say that the pilot will never effect voters in that state.



[ Parent ]
If it's really like the excerpts already published,... (4.00 / 1)
...for instance the one linked in leshrac's QH, it's a total failure. No leadership, no strong stance for the p.o. but an obscure "insurace exchange", no hitting back at the rethuglicans but instead ridiculous inistance on bipartisanship including an idiotic call for "the best ideas from both sides". Lunatic, and I mean the really dark side of the moon!

Doesn't Obama know what is going on? Checking comment threads at WaPo and NYT recently, I see that neither anti-reform right wingers nor, more importantly, liberals and progressives will be satisfied with a president giving just another one of the speeches he is doing since one and a half years now. Only very few moderates will see something positive in the unchanged approach, and that's not good enough to help his poll ratings.

Really, even if Obama is clueless, what the hell are his advisers thinking? The whole team is steering the ship on to the cliffs, isn't there someone to point that out?

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


Especially the nonsense about "the best ideas of both sides"... (4.00 / 5)
..is disturbing me. He also emphaiszes his door is alwaqys open for someone with an idea. I mean, really, what the EFF? This isn't the campaign anymore! The reform has been deated for months now in the committees, we're long past the phase were new ideas were introduced. Now it's about merging the different ideas and approaches into an actually working bill. But the president acts if nothing has happened yet. Is he stuck in a timeloop that started six months ago???

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
He comes across as something akin to a hall monitor in school in the excerpts released, (4.00 / 3)
just a scold to both sides when, to keep the analogy going, he watches as a bunch of bullies pick on a small kid and he yells at ALL of them.

Ridiculous


[ Parent ]
public option language (SPOILER) (4.00 / 2)
I just got the full remarks from the White House.

So let me set the record straight.  My guiding principle is, and always has been, that consumers do better when there is choice and competition.  Unfortunately, in 34 states, 75% of the insurance market is controlled by five or fewer companies.  In Alabama, almost 90% is controlled by just one company.  Without competition, the price of insurance goes up and the quality goes down.  And it makes it easier for insurance companies to treat their customers badly - by cherry-picking the healthiest individuals and trying to drop the sickest; by overcharging small businesses who have no leverage; and by jacking up rates.

Insurance executives don't do this because they are bad people.  They do it because it's profitable.  As one former insurance executive testified before Congress, insurance companies are not only encouraged to find reasons to drop the seriously ill; they are rewarded for it.  All of this is in service of meeting what this former executive called "Wall Street's relentless profit expectations."

Now, I have no interest in putting insurance companies out of business.  They provide a legitimate service, and employ a lot of our friends and neighbors.  I just want to hold them accountable.  The insurance reforms that I've already mentioned would do just that.  But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange.  Let me be clear - it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance.  No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance.  In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5% of Americans would sign up.

Despite all this, the insurance companies and their allies don't like this idea.  They argue that these private companies can't fairly compete with the government.  And they'd be right if taxpayers were subsidizing this public insurance option.  But they won't be.  I have insisted that like any private insurance company, the public insurance option would have to be self-sufficient and rely on the premiums it collects.  But by avoiding some of the overhead that gets eaten up at private companies by profits, excessive administrative costs and executive salaries, it could provide a good deal for consumers.  It would also keep pressure on private insurers to keep their policies affordable and treat their customers better, the same way public colleges and universities provide additional choice and competition to students without in any way inhibiting a vibrant system of private colleges and universities.

It's worth noting that a strong majority of Americans still favor a public insurance option of the sort I've proposed tonight.  But its impact shouldn't be exaggerated - by the left, the right, or the media.  It is only one part of my plan, and should not be used as a handy excuse for the usual Washington ideological battles.  To my progressive friends, I would remind you that for decades, the driving idea behind reform has been to end insurance company abuses and make coverage affordable for those without it.  The public option is only a means to that end - and we should remain open to other ideas that accomplish our ultimate goal.  And to my Republican friends, I say that rather than making wild claims about a government takeover of health care, we should work together to address any legitimate concerns you may have.

For example, some have suggested that that the public option go into effect only in those markets where insurance companies are not providing affordable policies.  Others propose a co-op or another non-profit entity to administer the plan.  These are all constructive ideas worth exploring.  But I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can't find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice.  And I will make sure that no government bureaucrat or insurance company bureaucrat gets between you and the care that you need.

Finally, let me discuss an issue that is a great concern to me, to members of this chamber, and to the public - and that is how we pay for this plan.  



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

I like the first half! (0.00 / 0)
The second half, not so much.

[ Parent ]
That sounds ok... (0.00 / 0)
He does defend it and why it works, but at the same time basically says it's not necessary... I guess that's that...

[ Parent ]
Great. (4.00 / 6)
So Obama only wants the public option for those who don't already have insurance. Us slaves of Blue Cross will see no changes.

But how is the public option supposed to compete with private insurance if it is not allowed to compete with private insurance?

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Paying Attention? (4.00 / 2)
What Obama states is true for every single version of the public option passed by any committee.  This is the strong public option everyone is fighting for.  Nothing else has ever been on the table.

There is a real reason Ezra keeps pointing out the PO isn't the most important part of the legislation.

The hope of progressives is the PO will be popular and grow over time.  That is also the fear of the insurance corporations.


[ Parent ]
I guess not. (4.00 / 1)
I thought the public option was actually, you know, public. And an option.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Instead, it appears it was just nice rhetoric to get applause (4.00 / 2)
during campaign appearances

[ Parent ]
Well I just heard (4.00 / 1)
him compare a bare-bones public option for those poor souls who can't otherwise get insurance to our public colleges and universities...good god.  My heart is broken.  

[ Parent ]
Somebody's private school background (4.00 / 4)
is showing . . . "State schools? Aren't those just for the poor slobs and losers who can't get into the Ivies? It's all right for some people I guess."

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Should the word 'snob' be floated now? It could be....n/t (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Brian Williams cited some meaningless and deceptive stats (4.00 / 2)
He said that "90% of voters in the last election actually have health care and at least content with what they have". Which, even if technically true (and how do you define "at least content"?), is meaningless, in terms of the actual health care situation in the US, because it excludes Americans who didn't vote (including everyone who isn't 18 or a citizen or otherwise can't or didn't vote).

The RELEVANT number is 80%--80% of Americans, voting citizens or not, have some form of health insurance, and 80% of THEM are happy with their insurance. Meaning only 64% of Americans are happy with their insurance, the other 1/3 either not happy with their insurance, or not having any insurance.

Brian Williams, pampered voice of the entitled classes.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


Absurd stat (4.00 / 4)
Lots of people are happy with their health care until they get sick. I, for one.

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[ Parent ]
re: happy (4.00 / 3)
until they get sick

or their job is moved to pakistan and they get laid-off


[ Parent ]
Yup (4.00 / 2)
This stat excludes or trivializes 4 important classes of people:

1. Non-voters (2/3 of Americans)

2. People without insurance (20% of Americans)

3. People unhappy with their insurance (20% of insured Americans)

4. People who think they have good insurance but don't (???)

If you include the last group, I'm fairly certain that at most only 50% of Americans have good insurance, which is the only insurance worth having. Everyone else is either uninsured, or poorly insured.

Brian Williams FAIL.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


[ Parent ]
Politics (0.00 / 0)
The talking heads don't give a whit about policy, only politics.  This is an important point, however, when it comes to the politics.  Actual voters have health insurance and mostly worry that insurance changing.  That is why it is important remind them that existing insurance can change right from under you.  Security for those with insurance already is the big middle-class selling point.

[ Parent ]
I agree that it's important wrt politics (4.00 / 1)
But Williams didn't qualify it as such. He presented it in a way that implied that most Americans liked their insurance. It was a lie of ommission. Willful, I believe.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
Pelosi in red, Clinton in red, several other ladies, too... (0.00 / 0)
..is this some kind of dresscode in Congress.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

Is Congress gonna filibuster this thing (0.00 / 0)
with applause? Jesus Christ.. let the man speak!!

Yup, such strong applause for empty rhetoric... (0.00 / 0)
...is overblown and even unintendedly hilarious.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
What the EFF is CNN doing now? (0.00 / 0)
Interrupting the coverage for their lame analysis? Are they nuts???

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
No intererruptions at BBC. (0.00 / 0)
US TV is a joke.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Don't get it here in Europe on Satellite. (0.00 / 0)
And I guess it will be laggy on the internet now. BBC is great.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
BBC (0.00 / 0)
What is the BBC doing, showing an Obama speech purely on domestic affairs.  Does the U.S. always get that kind of coverage overseas?

[ Parent ]
Hmm, dunno. To be honest, I don't watch BBC that often. (0.00 / 0)
Bu they just noted that they picked up the PBS program. So, no huge costs for them. And don't forget, it's 3 am now here, it doesn't interfere with the regular program.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
But I can assure you that special events in the US get that attention (0.00 / 0)
The nomination cons, inauguration speeches, important issues like hurricane responses or the US declaring war to yet another nation...

However, life coverage isn't such a big deal since it's in the wee small hours were it doesn't interrupt the regular programs.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


[ Parent ]
War (4.00 / 1)
We haven't actually bothered to declare war since WWII.  Now we just have military operations.


[ Parent ]
It's amost 2 in the morning over there! You are dedicated n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Just curious. But I guess I'm gonna regret that... (0.00 / 0)
...in the morning. Not much time left for sleep. Going straight to my bed now. Nightynight!

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
They actually commented on it (0.00 / 0)
as he was GIVING it?!?!?

Dude, stop abusing yourself. Don't watch CNN!

I'm watching it on NBC, no interruptions. Catch the CSPAN rebroadcast later today for no interruptions.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


[ Parent ]
They even put their analysts in the foreground... (0.00 / 0)
..with the president speaking in a window. Unbelievable, what a disrespect. I immediately switched channels.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
hey, this is wolf blitzer you're talking about (0.00 / 0)
you can't contain the wolfman!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/wa...


[ Parent ]
Here we go the 'scold' makes an appearance (4.00 / 3)
Partisanship - wag finger-bad bad bad

Why can't he just advocate for a value system besides bipartisanship?????


Michelle looks pissed... (0.00 / 0)


He really promises nothing will change in Medicare (0.00 / 0)
I guess this rules Baucus plan with all those cuts out. Or else it's just more rhetoric...

And what about "no one should go broke because he gets sick? Does he want to get rid of out of pocket payments for low income households who can go bankrupt quite easily? Which bill actually includes such safeguards?

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


Strong attack against the death panelers now! (4.00 / 1)
Good. About time.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

Now turning the "choice" call against the rethugs. (4.00 / 1)
Another good move. And then rightly pointing out the shortcomings of "competition" in the states. Not bad. And "holding insurnace companies accountable" sure is popular.  

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Health or illhealth is not a commodity it is a CONDITION (0.00 / 0)
but he must bow to the god of 'The Market'

I guess some lip services can simply be ignored. (0.00 / 0)
Like the line "I don't want to push isurance companies" out of the market. That's no guarantee it may not happen, it simply sounds good to the pro business crowd.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Calls out the CPC (4.00 / 4)
How dare he equate the gripes from the Left to those of the right! Obama the compromiser does it again. This smells of Triangulation...

He simply cannot help it (4.00 / 3)
He is an appeasing equivocator and triangulator to the bone, wrapping it in a thin skin of "pragmatism". Perhaps he really believes in this, which means that he's like a pusher who uses his own product. Sad.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
"we will provide you with a choice!" (4.00 / 1)
(But we won't say if its gonna be like Medicare, or just a dummy choice that won't really help you...)

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

Except (4.00 / 2)
we don't get a choice? I'm confused.

Then again, he lost me when he said insurance companies provide a "legitimate service." Since when is extortion a legitimate service?

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
if we had a choice (4.00 / 2)
people would choose it. If it were truly competitive, it would "dominate" the system. The fact that it can't is a selling point.

[ Parent ]
which means (0.00 / 0)
that the possibility that it "will be popular and grow over time" has been designed out of it at the outset as a feature. If it could do that, it would not be politically feasible.

[ Parent ]
Republicans do their scary printout-waving thing (4.00 / 2)
Ooh, me so scaredy-cat!

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

Uh, what's that printout stuff? (4.00 / 1)
I noticed that, but couldn't see what the point is..

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Something from The Lewin Group, perhaps (4.00 / 2)
Or Sarah Palin's WSJ op-ed. Whatever. It could be directions to Rush Limbaugh's house for all I care, it's crap.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
For a second (4.00 / 3)
I thought I was right, they were birth certificates. Heh.

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[ Parent ]
Please tell me they weren't! (0.00 / 0)
Although, politically, it would be gold.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
Good attack on the Bush deficits now. (4.00 / 2)
Puts the deficit criticism into the right perspective, exposes the hypocrisy. Swell.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

Bad surprise for Baucus! (4.00 / 1)
No Medicare cuts. There go Max's financial ideas...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

Re, Co-ops.. (4.00 / 1)
I guess my hope is that Obama "considers" Co-ops and ultimately says that he doesn't think it will work, and thus adopts the PO...

Probably not, though.


I can't liveblog and concerntrate at once (4.00 / 1)
I'm going to have to re-watch it later tonight. Too many points made that need to be parsed. But I've always been a multi-pass sort of person.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

Da,mn, I missed the joke... (0.00 / 0)
What was the punchline that ignited the folks? Something about tort reform?

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

I'm getting scared... (4.00 / 2)
Did Obama just promote tort deform? And he's really ready to throw the public option under the bus? This speech confirms to me that he's NOT a progressive and he will NOT have our back. This should be the first major test of The Progressive Block. Will they roll over for Obama to get a piece of sh*t bill and call it a "victory" or will they make him sign a good bill?

Want to save marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how! ;-)

"My door is always open!" I see hundreds of rethugs queing up... (4.00 / 2)
..with idiotic ideas designed to hold up the legislative process indefinetely...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

Touching remberance of Ted Kennedy, (4.00 / 1)
Classy. Well deserved. I just wish he wouldn't use it to promote bipartisanship again. Teddy knew how and when to make bipartisan bills work. Obama doesn't.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

Grading Obama (4.00 / 2)
I'd give Obama right around an A-/B+.  He defended the public option strongly and only devoted a sentence or two to co-op/trigger plans.  This was persuasive and strong; the Orator-in-Chief did fairly well.  He could have advocated and drew a line in the sand for the public option, though; that lowers his grade.  A lot.

All in all, better than I thought. B+, maybe. (4.00 / 1)
Under the assumption that many of his statements where pure rhetoric, designed to make his points more acceptable for the right wingers. If he really meant all that shit, it's a C-.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
You all sure are grading high on more HOPE... (4.00 / 2)
I give him a C- at best, because he is still in campaign mode.

Yes, he spoke about the public option, but did not commit to not signing a bill without it. (D)

Speechifying he is good at, but I am tired of hearing about good Republicans.

And the actions are what matters, if Snowe gets to write the bill, why did we bother electing a so called Democrat.


[ Parent ]
"hearing about good Republicans" (0.00 / 0)
What are you talking about? Give me a specific quote where he lauded Republicans?

[ Parent ]
Well now . . . (0.00 / 0)
There were several.

There were the malpractice demonstration projects that GWB had proposed: "I think that's a good idea."  Does anyone want to offer details on what these might be?  I suspect they are some kind of malpractice cap, i.e. tort reform.

There were the specific Senators that had cosigned legislation with Ted Kennedy: McCain, Grassley and Hatch.

There were his general, habitual remarks about being open to ideas from and discussions with 'people on both sides of the aisle', etc.

In general, that is the correct 'open' rhetorical position for any public official, so I wish that Olefters weren't so knee-jerk about loathing every nonpartisan gesture.  On the other hand, the last few months of idle nonsense around Baucus's committee are what gave Glenn Beck, Palin and the Astroturfers a chance to consolidate their frames in the public consciousness.  It is also galling to Progressives to hear that the door is always open, pointlessly, to the bad faith elite while we know that it is essentially impossible for those of us seeking a more structurally egalitarian society to be taken seriously by this administration.  


[ Parent ]
A hint of Kennedy (John F.) (0.00 / 0)
"I believe we can act even when it's hard"
Obama's speechwriters only copy from the best!
:D

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

He really wants to be known as the first President ( actually it would be 2nd) (4.00 / 3)
with a designation of Independent after his name... I am convinced of that after this speech especially as he parroted the Repubica brand themes WHILE he was talking about Ted Kennedy

Washington being the first and only in my estimation n/t (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Teddy Roosevelt came close (0.00 / 0)
No big difference between "independent" and being the candidate of a party you just invented. Just ask Joe Lieberman! :D

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Washington was a Federalist (4.00 / 1)
Not only in name but in ideology and practice too.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
More toward the end of his Presidency I'd agree with you but he warned of factionalism (0.00 / 0)
which I take as political Parties.

[ Parent ]
Informally, he always allied and sided with the Federalists (4.00 / 1)
It only became formalized about midway through his presidency, when Jefferson figured it out and left. But informally, he was effectively always a Federalist. Hamilton made sure of that.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
My grade of Obama's speech (4.00 / 1)
Flowery language: A

I'll admit it. He still speaks well, with complete sentences actually. Nice.

Refuting attacks: A-

He finally called a lie a lie. Good on him. It may not stop the Republicans from lying some more, but maybe there's a chance they'll stop gaining traction.

Policy: C+

Yes, he finally said "public option"... But then caved some by remaining "open" to co-op craps and never-to-be-enforced "triggers". And worse, he called on Congressional Democrats to be ready to cave in as well. I hope they ignore those sentences from him.

Overall: B

Want to save marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how! ;-)


Not a bad speech (4.00 / 1)
But hardly rising to the level it needed to be at. A disappointment, more a restating of previous positions with occasional flourishes than the great speech that it needed to be. It was a good stump speech, not a speech for the ages. He missed an opporunity.

Unless it was intentional.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)


This speech did what it needed to do (4.00 / 1)
it will provide a number of good sound bytes and allow us to dig in on the public option using Obama's support for it as ammunition.

The "lie" line is good - and Obama was also helped by the GOP's colossal arrogance in their conduct during the speech.  


[ Parent ]
This Boustany looks like he's been embalmed (4.00 / 3)
"start over" is not a good message either.

Yeah, pretty lame rebuttal... (0.00 / 0)
Even lame Bob Dole did a better job back in 1993...

Brian Williams said that the GOP didn't want one of their stars doing the rebuttal, in case they looked bad like the governor of LA did last winter...

This guy looked pretty bad, though... and who the hell is he?  He's some nobody with no leadership position of any sort...  

I was a little nervous of the GOP response, but it was lame... surprisingly conciliatory...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
More like a mehbuttal (4.00 / 2)
Better than Mr. Rogers, though. Nothing about volcanoes.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
Who are these "stars" Mr. Williams spoke of? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Easy grading here (4.00 / 1)
Style: A
Substance: C
Overall: B

He needs to draw a line the sand over the public option. He's been open to other ideas for lowering costs for months, and they are no where to be seen. Public option is the only way to lower costs that's on the table. I see this speech as kicking the can down the road, two three months until he either gives a compromise speech, or a firey.. we need a public option the time is now speech.


Chuck Todd: (0.00 / 0)
"This was about rebranding the President as a Centrist and a Pragmatist"

why?


'Cos most people outside of OpenLeft... (4.00 / 1)
...think he's a very liberal.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
re (4.00 / 1)
why?

because his name is Chuck Todd


[ Parent ]
RE-branding? (4.00 / 1)
I thought that was pretty much a given outside the far right.

The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
Chuck Todd's a mediocrity (0.00 / 0)
a typical "smiling public man" who says what anyone can, and is therefore credited with having common sense.  

[ Parent ]
He makes me sad. (0.00 / 0)
He used to be a numbers guy.  Kind of the pet wonk.  I miss that.  Now he's just another fount of conventional wisdom.  I think they keep him around because he's youngish.

[ Parent ]
His stat work (0.00 / 0)
was as shallow and insipid as everything else.  

Although Tweety swears he's a genius.  


[ Parent ]
D (4.00 / 7)
He still isn't taking sides. And this "float like a butterfly, sting like a butterfly" crap is not going to get the job done.

Montani semper liberi

I totally disagree (4.00 / 1)
He gave a very partisan speech, calling rightwing views on the health care debate "lies," mentioning the Bush deficits as the real cause for our current economic hole, and calling out individual Republican Senators who had collaborated with Ted Kennedy in the past for being obstructionist now. Your cynicism is totally unjustified. And I'm no Obamabot.

[ Parent ]
Cynicism (0.00 / 0)
in the political arena is almost always justified.  However, I think your evidence of his choosing a side is solid.  

The soft old millionaire white guys who sat silently or scoffed through his refutation of August astroturf also seemed to think he had chosen a side.   The people that back them up are going to be turning up the heat.


[ Parent ]
No kidding (4.00 / 1)
"The soft old millionaire white guys who sat silently or scoffed through his refutation of August astroturf also seemed to think he had chosen a side."

[ Parent ]
They were sulking (4.00 / 2)
because mandates-without-a-public-option are a huge giveaway to the insurance companies. And those insurance companies will reward the Party that delivers it.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Umm (0.00 / 0)
Obama actually stood up for the public option. Read Mike's diary on this site. Normally you and I agree on most things, but you're just way off here. The progressive cause had a reasonably good night tonight.

[ Parent ]
"Stood up?" (0.00 / 0)
Still not seeing it. What I heard was that he was "open" to it,  just like he is "open" to triggers, co-ops, etc.

Maybe we just have to leave it at that. Maybe you are in a good mood tonight and I am in a bad one. I think my interpretation is the correct one but I will be very, very happy if yours is instead.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Then again (4.00 / 1)
let me step back a little bit. I've been kvetching because he did not give the speech I wanted to hear, which would basically be channelling FDR with a dash of trust-busting TR thrown in for good measure.

But that was never going to happen.

What did happen is he wasn't talking about the public option and everyone said it was dead, forget about it, but the netroots did not forget about it and August recess came and went and we kept up the pressure and lo and behold, now he is "open" to it.

Maybe you are right. Maybe we did make him do it?

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
read what Mike says (0.00 / 0)
read it

[ Parent ]
I did. (0.00 / 0)
I didn't hear the speech Mike heard.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Pat yourself on the back (0.00 / 0)
You, Krugman, Reich, Hamsher, Olbermann, Maddow, Dean, Weiner, S Brown, the OLeft, the netroots and a few million fellow 'mericans got us this far.  It doesn't entirely suck yet.  And it could have.

And it still might.

Elsewhere you called them crumbs.  I prefer to think of them as toe-holds: positions to work from.


[ Parent ]
Bingo! (0.00 / 0)
No sign of sulking insurance industry millionaires.  Rather, I'm quite sure they're toasting their successful efforts at this point.  

[ Parent ]
Then I guess we have different ideas (4.00 / 3)
about what "very partisan" speech sounds like.

All I hear is the "all things to all people" parts. He threw a few crumbs our way, yes, but he that's all they were, crumbs. And his "door is still open" to "anyone with good ideas," which we all know really means Republicans, insurance lobbyists and Blue Dogs. In short, the people with bad ideas.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Well, you and I don't, at least (4.00 / 1)
I think you and I heard pretty much the same speech.

[ Parent ]
I'm gonna name my pony "Tort Reform".... (4.00 / 3)
[pounds head on desk]

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

Mine will be "Trigger." (4.00 / 2)
Seriously, how could you pass that one up?

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Can I have "President Snowe"? (4.00 / 1)


The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
President Nelson objects (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
I prefer my ponies to be fillies, if possible (4.00 / 1)


The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
Hmm. Penis jealousy? (0.00 / 0)
Bad joke, bad joke, I know, Kovie. Sry!

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Um, not the last time I checked... (0.00 / 0)


The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

[ Parent ]
Hop hop Co-Op! (4.00 / 1)
Brave pony! Now try to jump over the progressive block!
Oops...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Was this a veiled threat against the monopolies? (0.00 / 0)
So let me set the record straight. My guiding principle is, and always has been, that consumers do better when there is choice and competition. Unfortunately, in 34 states, 75% of the insurance market is controlled by five or fewer companies. In Alabama, almost 90% is controlled by just one company. Without competition, the price of insurance goes up and the quality goes down. And it makes it easier for insurance companies to treat their customers badly - by cherry-picking the healthiest individuals and trying to drop the sickest; by overcharging small businesses who have no leverage; and by jacking up rates.



McCain is tanking on CNN... (4.00 / 1)
...really bad... That's nice, at least...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


Yeah... was totally flubbing... (0.00 / 0)
...and even agreeing with the president most of the time...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Low point on OpenLeft (4.00 / 1)
I can't ever remember when commenters on this site had so much to say that had absolutely nothing to do with the text of the speech that was just actually given. Most comments don't even bother to give quotes or even accurate paraphrases. Did everyone get drunk before they watched this?

How else could we stand this brouhaha? (4.00 / 1)
Surely you're joking, Mr. B-man!

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Admitedly (0.00 / 0)
I imbibed as well. But as you scan through the comments, I defy you to pluck out anything of much substance. (And what's up with the "B-man" reference?)

[ Parent ]
Mr. B. in NC, right? B-man is just an artistic license... (0.00 / 0)
...to make the analogy to a famous book title more obvious.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surely_You%27re_Joking,_Mr._Feynman! (0.00 / 0)
And I really make the big escape into my bed now. GN

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
still a bit confused (0.00 / 0)
I could just be overwhelmed at this point by the whole healthcare debate.  gonna have to ruminate a bit on the speech and what it will actually produce.  Could just be me, but I am not overly enthused or overly disappointed by Obama's address tonight.  I am going to sleep on it.

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