More on Trust

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Sep 11, 2009 at 10:54


Two days ago, I wrote that I did not trust the Obama administration when it comes to applying political pressure on conservative Democrats in order to pass some of the more progressive elements of the Democratic agenda. The specific examples I used were card-check and cramdown, on which I believe the administration offered token vocal support but did not take serious (or at least effective) efforts to advance.

In response, Matthew Yglesias wrote yesterday that I wasn't using common sense, which would show that the Obama administration is passing the most progressive legislation that is possible to pass:

For a bill to pass the House of Representatives, it needs a majority. According to DW-NOMINATE score, the median member of the House of Representatives is currently Stephanie Herseth of South Dakota. The median member of the United States Senate is Kay Hagan of North Carolina. The pivotal sixtieth Senator required to break a filibuster is Ben Nelson of Nebraska. All you need to believe in order to believe that Barack Obama is generally signing the most progressive bills that it's possible to pass is that the Obama administration is more left-wing than Representative Herseth and Senator Nelson.

That is a very nice generalization about the political situation, but it breaks down when you look at the specific fights I cited as my examples: card-check and cramdown. In particular, the card-check fight is case where the administration completely failed to apply necessary pressure to pass what was a very winnable fight.

  1. In the 110th Congress, 52 Senators supported cramdown, eight away from passage. On June 26th, 2007, 51 Senators voted in favor of invoking cloture on a version of the Employee Free Choice Act that included card-check. One Senator, Tim Johnson, was supportive but too ill to attend the vote.

  2. With 8 votes needed to reach 60 in the Senate, and with all major Democratic challengers for Senate stating their support for the Employee Free Choice Act with card-check, the target in 2008 was to net Democrats 8 Senate pickups. Rather than lacking common sense about the need for 60 votes, as Yglesias accuses me, I mentioned this target repeatedly during my 2008 Senate forecasts, as a running whip count on card check. In the end, Democrats netted exactly 8 seats--enough for passage.

  3. During 2009, under the Obama administration's watch, six Democratic Senators caved to pressure from business groups and flipped their positions on card-check. So, we had the votes, and then lost them as business groups (with an apporval rating of about 10%) apparently applied more effective pressure than the Obama administration (which, at the time, had approval ratings in the mid-60% range).

  4. A couple of months after card-check had been defeated, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel was quoted calling pressure from progressive groups against conservative Democrats, including labor, "f*cking stupid."
To recap: we had 60 votes for card-check, we lost six of those votes under the Obama administration's watch, and then the White House chief of Staff called attempts to apply political pressure on wayward Democrats "f*cking stupid."

So please, tell me again why I should believe the Obama administration is doing everything it can to pass things like card-check, and how I lack common sense about how 60 votes are needed to pass the Senate. We had the votes, the votes were lost under the Obama administration, and then the Obama administration protected the Democrats who defected.

More in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: More on Trust
As far as cramdown goes, there was never any direct polling on the matter due to its relative obscurity. However, the poll with the closest wording, taken not long before cramdown was defeated, showed overwhelming support:

CBS News/New York Times Poll. Feb. 18-22, 2009. N=1,112 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).

"The Obama administration has a plan to help homeowners refinance their mortgages, avoid foreclosure, and make more credit available for mortgages. Do you think the federal government should provide this financial help to homeowners, or shouldn't the federal government do this, or don't you know enough yet to say?"

Should: 61%
Should not: 20%
Don't Know Enough: 14%
Help only some: 3% (voluntary answer)
Unsure: 2%

Through a generalization, Yglesias argues that voting in favor of cramdown was politically dangerous for conservative Democrats due to their conservative constituencies. As such, he implies there was no possible political pressure the Obama administration could have applied to these Senators that would have resulted in the passage of cramdown.

However, there is no evidence at all that cramdown was either unpopular or even understood by the constituents in any district. What little polling there was indicates it actually would have been extremely popular. Further, the long-time champion of cramdown in the House is Representative Brad Miller, who is from a lean-Democratic district in North Carolina (PVI D+5) and who first won his seat in 2002, which was a very good election for Republicans.

It is also important to remember exactly what political pressure the Obama administration applied to on conservative and moderate Democrats on cramdown. One week after the House fight on cramdown, where the New Dems had successfully watered down the bill, President Obama met with the New Dems and said the following:

President Barack Obama firmly resists ideological labels, but at the end of a private meeting with a group of moderate Democrats on Tuesday afternoon, he offered a statement of solidarity.

"I am a New Democrat," he told the New Democrat Coalition, according to two sources at the White House session.

With cramdown pressure like this, it is no wonder that the lobbies for financial institutions were able to exert more influence on conservative and moderate Democrats than the Obama administration.

There is just no evidence that this is a politically toxic position that would put any member of Congress in trouble with his or her constituents. There also isn't any evidence that the Obama administration tried to apply pressure on conservative Democrats during this fight. So instead, I will go with Senator Durbin's famous explanation for the defeat of cramdown in the Senate:

And the banks -- hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created -- are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place.

Maybe there weren't 60 votes to be had in the Senate under any circumstances. Still, it is important to remember that the reason for that has nothing to do with the conservative constituencies some Senators represent. Rather, it is because the lobbies of financial institutions appear both more willing and able to influence certain conservative Democratic Senators more than are the Obama administration or Democratic leadership. That these decisions by conservative Democrats are more often based on fear of powerful financial interests than the conservative nature of the constituencies involved is common sense Yglesias should have about the political process.


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More on Trust | 19 comments
Slightly off topic question (4.00 / 2)
What happened at the Obama - Senate conservadem meeting that ABC reported was going to happen?

As for a comment on your post, it's a center-left nation and a center-right government, media and K street.  

John McCain won't insure children


as someone old enough (4.00 / 8)
to remember the civil rights debate in the Senate, I have to say the idea that you can't break a filibuster is nonsense. Once a filibuster begins on a popular piece of leglislation, the dynamics change. In those days you need 67 votes for cloture. But Hubert Humphrey found those votes. The problem is that our President and Majority leader give lip service to cram down and EFCA, but they don't actually support them.

We need a new majority leader.

And I really don't have any use for Obama. What if we had said that "oh yeah, we support you for President, but be realistic, you are a black man with a funny name, and we don't have the votes." I am more than sick of politicians who expect their volunteers to deliver, but then don't do anything to make our lives better.


Yeah, there hasn't been nearly (4.00 / 3)
enough talk about forcing a filibuster. I like what Carville said.

"What about this?," Carville said Sunday on CNN's State of the Union, "Suppose they pass a House bill that can get 56 Senate Democrats." Then, Carville suggested, instead of using reconciliation, a special budgetary maneuver in Senate procedure that frustrate GOP attempts to mount a filibuster, Democrats should call for a vote. "And make [Republicans] filibuster it. But the old kinda way is that they filibuster it and make'em go three weeks and all night and [Democrats] will be there the whole time.

"Then, you say, 'They're the people that stopped it. We had a majority of Democrats. We had a good bill. They stopped it.'"

http://politicalticker.blogs.c...


[ Parent ]
As I wrote when that came up the first time... (0.00 / 0)
..this amounts to giving up the efforts to pass healthcare, and hoping for a unguaranteed second chance in the future (prolly after 2010, if at all), in exchange for making a publicity stunt that may or may not hurt the rethugs. Imho not an effective strategy, when you look at the costs/return relationship. And the fact it's coming from that horrible fool Carville, that turncoat who has no problems with being married to a GOP strategist, should give every real liberal the creeps.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Why (4.00 / 1)
does a filubuster have to be the end of it?

If you don't break it, then you can go ahead and do whatever you were going to do.


[ Parent ]
Because otherwise you don't have a point against the rethugs if you pass it (0.00 / 0)
They will then have the couterargument that they were simply against something in the first bill, and anyway, why are you complaining, you managed to pass another bill later?
So, Carville's strategy implies that you leave the issue aside until after the elections (or else it wouldn't be a useful argument in the campaigns). And waiting until the end of 2010 for the ext try to get reform passed is simply too long. Only god knows how the conditions then will look like, if they won't be actually worse for the Dems...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Then you remember (0.00 / 0)
that the filibuster was broken because Everett Dirksen and Hubert Humphrey submitted a compromise bill that weakened regulations on private entities to get four Republican votes to overcome the filibuster.  

[ Parent ]
I'm curious about "pressure".. (0.00 / 0)
What pressure could Obama apply to the delegation from Arkansas (Lincoln, Pryor; Ross)? Seems to me he has zero pull in that state, certainly compared to Walmart.

I never count any Arkansas democrats in any calculations anymore.


I actually found Ygelesias's post (4.00 / 2)
a little eerie. Channeling Nate Silver, he's using ideological rankings--yeah, those don't lie!--in an attempt to disprove what anyone with eyes and ears knows: that Obama is not fighting for the most progressive health care plan possible. I recall Silver using bullshit quantitative analysis to try to claim that Obama's nominees were as liberal as Bush's were conservative.

Oh how these technocratic bloggers love our technocratic president.


Yep (0.00 / 0)
the great fallacy in such an "analysis" is that it treats the supposed median congressperson as being an immovable object with regard to the legislation they might pass, as if they can't be pressured by outside forces into voting for something more to the left than they would prefer given no pressure whatever.

Clearly if Obama had from Day One insisted on, say, a robust public option, had clearly defined what that meant, had made it clear that he would veto any legislation that didn't include it, had make a powerful populist case for it excoriating those who opposed it as serving the corporate interests, it would have been infinitely more difficult for the median Senator to follow their own particular path of least resistance given their pre-existing inclinations. Then, the questions would be, Should they oppose the wishes of a very popular President? Should they look like they are siding with the corporate interests against the people? Should they be the ones held responsible by the President for the defeat of the legislation -- legislation that was clearly part of the President's mandate?

Instead, we got a President who was the most passive in all of recent history, and on the legislation of greatest consequence, leaving the content of that legislation to a body with known and powerful instincts to the corporate status quo.

It's all pretty fucking sad. And it's especially sad to see the so-called progressives fall for the shtick.

I've become convinced that progressives are the some of the people who can be fooled all of the time. The latest speech by Obama pretty much proves it for all time. The real consequential content of the speech, the new and decisive element, was to make it clear that he was not going to insist on the PO. He was delivering the knife in the back to progressives while talking up big their ideals. They fell headlong for the talk even while getting the shiv. And the outburst by the idiot rightie Joe Wilson brought it to serendipitous perfection: they also had a wingnut they could rally against in morally superior hate.

And from the latest mouthings of the Democratic leaders of Congress, it's become obvious enough that the fix is in on the PO: it's going to go.

But Obama will get his health care reform bill, even if there's no reform in it. And progressives are now have been put in a mood to celebrate it.

Great work, Obama team: you found a way to take that pile of crap corporate legislation and make it seem like a gleaming city on a hill to progressives. It comes easier of course because your marks are children, albeit of all ages, but an impressive job nonetheless.


[ Parent ]
Vital point (4.00 / 2)
"decisions conservative Democrats are more often based on fear of powerful financial interests than the conservative nature of the constituencies"

This should be a "public talking point" in all Progressive analysis.  

The truism that "the most money wins" is used by DC operatives to short circuit the political authority of actual voters.  There is a general disregard for the possibility that they might not always be able to buy the convictions of the public.
 


by . . . (0.00 / 0)
"decisions by conservative Democrats are more often based on fear of powerful financial interests than the conservative nature of the constituencies"

[ Parent ]
Yes, plus their constituencies (4.00 / 2)
are likely to be conservative on social and cultural issues, not so much on health care, which is more of an economic, bread-and-butter issue--or it was before conservatives, thanks in part to Obama's political blunders, managed to turn it into a cultural issue.

[ Parent ]
No surprise (4.00 / 2)
If you looked at Obama's positions rather than his rhetoric he was pretty clearly a conservative Democrat but not an extreme one.  So far he's lived up (or down) to my expectations being a bit better on health care and significantly worse on the wars.  By now I expected many troops home from Iraq.

I rarely watch speeches, much preferring to read them.  The devil is, indeed, in the details.  Frankly, I have a much higher opinion of Dick Durbin than of either Harry Reid or Obama.  He fights for the right things.  He may often lose but he ties hard and sometimes win.  If he don't play, you can't win the game.


"Trust is good, control is better" (0.00 / 0)
Generally, I don't spread statements made by stubbornly ideological communists, but that guy hit the bullseye with his sound bite...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

Problem is that the desire to control other humans (4.00 / 1)
generally ends badly when implemented at the national level. Especially in a place with the fascistic tendencies of the USA.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Damn, you're right. :-( (0.00 / 0)
Now you ruined that slogan for me...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
The senate is nothing more than a bunch of corporate fascists. (4.00 / 1)
Think way back to around, oh say... 2007, when impeachment was off the table... even from a "progressive" speaker of the house. In the senate.. a search for a Barry Goldwater type would probably have placed you in the far Feingold left.

Now here we are with Andy effing Card running for Kennedy's seat.. instead of in jail for anything related to taking us into false wars and torture based on lies or things like Niger Forgeries, etc.

The country ran off the cliff during Bushco... and at best all we have managed to do is reach out in mid air and grab the edge of said cliff with a few fingers.

Wrong wars and war criminals run amok.
A very dangerous intel system.. who will receive no scrutiny for horrific transgressions.
15 to 23 trillion for criminal banksters.
probably trillions for insurance and pharma.
Things like FISA and the patriot act are looking no better.
A truly dangerous media situation across the land.

And a president who is still trying to get some bipartisan love from the Freidaman KKK wing of centrist / plantation Dems and the entire GOP. He even announced with pride that no "illegals" would receive care in time of need under his bill.

But only a few hundred billion over several years for 50 million uninsured, millions unemployed or foreclosed.. and no real economic plan to help the low to middle class economy. In fact the plan appears to be make these problems permanent.

We simply have a very long way to go... taking out quite a few senators is crucial.


From nyceve diary on dkos. (4.00 / 2)
Will We Follow the Clues? (15+ / 0-)

CLUE #1:  Dick Durbin stands on the Senate floor to say, "This Senate is owned by the banks."
CLUE #2:  Obama & the WH never support single payer(Too much change says Obama).
CLUE #3: Max Baucus not only doesn't permit single payer supporters to speak, but has them arrested.
Clue #4: The WH bends over for the GOP & Blue Dogs while telling his progressive base the public option is optional even to them.
CLUE #5: Months ago Obama cuts a secret compact with Big Pharma, totally against the interests of consumers.
CLUE #6: After Wednesday's speech, health care stocks soar.

These clues lead this progressive to some conclusions. The soon to pass bill will be a failure on many levels. The private insurers will provide junk insurance to their newly mandated customers. Insurance premiums will continue to soar as no real competition will exist. This pseudo-reform bill will collapse, as will the Democratic Wing of the American Corporate Party. The GOP will return to continue the pillaging of America. Different wing-same result!

by mcartri on Fri Sep 11, 2009 at 12:18:29 PM EDT



They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

More on Trust | 19 comments
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