Joe Wilson Successfully Pressures Baucus, Conrad to Change Health Care Legislation

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Sep 11, 2009 at 13:15


Ezra Klein has been arguing that the public option, and other progressive elements of the Democratic agenda, can't pass because the Obama administration is unable to pressure conservative Democratic Senators. Klein tells us those Senators, after all, aren't shrinking violets:

The unifying idea here is that someone can just go into a back room and torture Max Baucus and Kent Conrad. But how?

Well, Joe Wilson has demonstrated how one goes about pressuring these Senators can be pressured into changing legislation. Just have a right-wing freak-out on national television:

The controversy over Republican Rep. Joe Wilson's shouting out "You Lie!" at the President over his claim that illegal immigrants wouldn't benefit from health-care reform apparently sparked some reconsideration of the relevant language. "We really thought we'd resolved this question of people who are here illegally, but as we reflected on the President's speech last night we wanted to go back and drill down again," said Senator Kent Conrad, one of the Democrats in the talks after a meeting Thursday morning. Baucus later that afternoon said the group would put in a proof of citizenship requirement to participate in the new health exchange - a move likely to inflame the left.

So, there you have it. That is how you pressure Senators like Kent Conrad and Max Baucus to change legislation. They aren't shrinking violets, but they will cave to an obscure South Carolina Congressman calling President Obama a liar on national television, even when that Congressman's apology has been the main focus of the news cycle for the last 36 hours..

But remember--there is no way that the Obama administration could possibly apply the same sort of pressure to Baucus and Conrad and Joe Wilson can. Wilson is just vastly more powerful and influential than the Obama administration. And don't even get me started on the relative power balance between the Progressive Block and Joe Wilson. That is a mismtach if I ever saw one.

Given the power balance at play, this is a pretty smart move by Baucus and Conrad. First, it will undoubtedly get a lot of Republicans to support health care legislation. Second, it will also go a long way to discrediting Joe Wilson, and keeping the media tide of this story in our favor. Third, it is a good idea to deny legal, documented immigrants who are not yet citizens health care. Fourth, it keeps me excited and engaged in the fight because it shows that progressives have a real role in determining the outcome of health care legislation, especially compared to Joe Wilson. Fifth, I feel very confident now that Democrats won't back down to Republican lies. In total, few moves could have done more to strengthen the Democratic position on health care than this. Brilliant stuff.

John Aravosis has a lot more on this.  

Chris Bowers :: Joe Wilson Successfully Pressures Baucus, Conrad to Change Health Care Legislation

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Heck of a job Harry, heck of a job (0.00 / 0)


Is Harry involved? (0.00 / 0)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
How does he stop it? (0.00 / 0)


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
he's the senate majority leader (4.00 / 1)
the discipline of the senate's d caucus is his damn job

[ Parent ]
Yup. If a GOP Senator would pull such a stunt... (4.00 / 2)
..there would be hell to pay. There's no way such unwarranted appeasement would be tolerated. I'm certain their leader would have a nice conversation with that confused Senator, asking if he likes his chairmanship, and if he really can handle the reelection campaign totally on his own, facing a primar challenger backed by the chamber of commerce...

[ Parent ]
There is little to no real whip in either house. In either party. (0.00 / 0)
If soemone wants to try and form a real whip I'd help.

In many7 other countries, Parliamentary ones, there is a whip and used often. In canada for example, it is rare to vote against your party. Like never. Parties will announce that at soem point in the future, on one vote, the party members will be allowed to vote without whip.

People are removed from the party, and most often lose their seat, for voting against their party. Some "cross the floor" and become members of another party.  

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 2)
Now, which CPC member is gonna step up and have a "left wing freak out" on national TV?  Any takers?

Do you think it would play the same in M$M, congress, or WH?



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


Hehehe, that would be nice, for a change! (0.00 / 0)
Who's volunteering? Anyone? Anyone? Kucinich?

[ Parent ]
Unfortunately (4.00 / 3)
I think the left-winger would be the one censured.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
That's just playing follow the leader (4.00 / 1)
Democrats should up the ante and escalate things further.  Maybe they should put their teeth into support for a public option and create a caucus of nine-fingered opponents of health care reform.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
And some day (0.00 / 0)
Godot will arrive.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
left wing freak outs in history (4.00 / 3)
Chock-a-block with traitorous radicals

in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man better shut up and fake it if he knows what's good for him...

not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.


[ Parent ]
great snark. (4.00 / 4)
seriously, this is one of the most damnable actions i've heard about this year.  i didn't think my opinion of max baucus could sink any lower, but there you have it.    

It is the oddest thing that I ever heard. (4.00 / 1)
Its so effing odd that I cannot really contemplate what it means.  

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
Wow (4.00 / 6)
If you don't laugh you'll cry...

The same thing happened with death panels, right?

1. A Republican--one who will never, ever vote for any version of any bill--makes demand based on a fear-mongering lie.
2. Dems unite in spirited opposition to the demand.
3. Democratic centrist complies with the demand.

How dare you lie! Okay, okay, we'll do it.


When did #2 happen? (4.00 / 1)
 

[ Parent ]
Why did 0 rating happen? (0.00 / 0)
Uh, Wobbly, pls check your rating for that comment...

[ Parent ]
I certainly didn't mean to do that - thanks. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Idiocy knows no bounds... (4.00 / 3)
Honestly, how do these guys get elected?  They thought this was a good idea?  Does any Democrat think about things before they capitulate, or is it just so ingrained in them now that it's become an unstoppable reflex?

And nothing they can do about it now... they just look like complete buffoons.

Oh, and this was really great that this has now fully become the story of Wednesday night... GOP Congressman acts like a complete asshole and Democrats cave to him.  Nice.


He wasn't even that big of an asshole! (4.00 / 1)
I'm not condoning what he did, but shouting two words is barely anything at all. It seems that the Corporocrats were looking for en excuse to cave in.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Yes, it is obviously a symbolic move. (4.00 / 1)
It symbolizes a massive disloyalty to the Presidency, and to Obama specifically, and to the entire Democratic party. It is a complete and unambiguous fukc you.

"I can hurt you" seems to be the only thing here.


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
So if I shouted "You Lie" (0.00 / 0)
at GWB when he was whipping up support for the invasion of Iraq by talking about Saddam's stock-piles of WMD, your analysis would simply be that I was "disloyal" to the President?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
How you got that from my comment is a testament merely to my writing. (4.00 / 2)
 Yes, it is obviously a symbolic move. (on the part of Baucus)  (4.00 / 1)
It symbolizes a massive disloyalty(on the part of Baucus) to the Presidency, and to Obama specifically, and to the entire Democratic party. It is a complete and unambiguous fukc you(, on the part of Baucus)

"I can hurt you" seems to be the only thing (being said by baucus) here.


--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


[ Parent ]
and let's remember (0.00 / 0)
this is the same magic team that will "fix everything in conference". a whole lotta hardnosed bargaining will be going on there, yep.

although. it does now occur to me. do we have past evidence to indicate how much of what these clowns do will show up in the final product? they ended up dictating a lot of terms for the stimulus if i remember right.

because we know that the media pays more attention to their sort. so i suppose it's possible that there is something of an optical illusion at work here. </straw></clutch>

not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.


Pressure (0.00 / 0)
Funny.

But of course, this has nothing to do with pressure.  This has everything to do with these folks being terrified of Right Wing Populism.

If fact, all of your arguments about "centrist" Democrats are 100% factually correct and, unfortunately, besides the point.  Yes, the Public Option is popular in their states and districts, so yes Obama should be able to pressure them accordingly.  But the fear of Right Wing Populism runs deep in these folk's bones.  They shouldn't be afraid.  They should retaliate with Left Wing Populism.  But they don't.

I personally dislike populism in all its forms, but one can see objectively why it is important.  I think the only way to pressure these guys is to accuse them of being in bed with the insurance corporations.  Loudly.

Hmmm...  Did I just talk myself into agreeing with you?


Of course this group responds to right-wingers but (0.00 / 0)
not normal people. Why is this a shock?  

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