Age And The Status Quo

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 11:59


We had a pretty good discussion yesterday about the general lack of progress over the last thirty years in creating a more equitable economy. Now that was the kind of discussion that shows why the Open Left community is so great!

In the post, I argued that previous incarnations of progressive movements made more gains toward social justice in relative terms than current progressive movements, but not in absolute terms. That is, progressives of the past achieved more for their time, but not greater social justice overall. As such, we should not lionize past incarnations of progressive movements over our own, because they did not achieve more overall than we have--they just kicked the ball down the road to roughly the same point where it now stands. We are stagnating, as are pretty much all other wealthy democracies, and have been such for a long time.

Whether or not people agree with that assertion, the reasons offered in the comments for a lack of ongoing progress were fascinating. The two explanations that generated the most discussion were by bruce.dixon, who focused on wildly expanded incarceration rates over the last forty years, and by Mark Wallace, who discussed television as a means of reinforcement of the status quo.

I think there is something to be said for each of those rationales. I also think it is important to remember that no trend as broad, long lasting, and international as this almost certainly has more than one cause. As such, allow me to offer a third explanation that no one in the comments touched on: the increasing inelasticity and stagnation in social policy in wealthy democracies is partially a factor of the increasing age of the population of those countries.

America, like all other wealthy democracies, is getting older, and fast. In the last two decades alone, the median age of the United States has increased from 32.9 years, to 36.7 years. This has real political ramifications. In 1976, 32% of the electorate was under the age of 30, compared to only 18% in 2008. If the electorate last year had been as young as it was in 1976, Obama would have won by a much larger margin--55.5%--43.7%--than even the 7.27% he  actually won by. Democrats in Congress would have won at least a dozen more seats. Approval ratings for the Obama administration and Democratic policies would be higher, too. Simply put, the country would be more open to progressive policy changes.

Even beyond the short-term outlook of American politics, worldwide life expectancy has increased from 31 in 2000, to about 65 now. In the wealthy democracies, it has increased from about 45 to about 80. This has resulted in a far older population pretty much everywhere, which certainly plays an important role in reinforcing the status quo. The older one becomes, the less likely s/he is to pick up new tastes in clothes, food, music, or even slang. The older one becomes, the more intertwined his or her lifestyle and livelihood becomes on established, status quo institutions for employment and / or retirement. All of these trends are undoubtedly connected to political choices as well, resulting in a reinforcement of the status quo within those institutions as well.

While certainly not everyone experiences a solidification of their politics and trends toward a reinforcement of the status quo with age, it is probably safe to say that is generally true. As such, the continuing demographic trend older populations with the first 25 OECD countries must be a contributing factor to the general stagnation in economic and social policy in those countries over the last 25 years. It isn't the only factor in the slowed rate of progress and / or stagnation we are experiencing, but it is an important one. The older our population becomes, the fewer sweeping policy changes we will probably experience.

Chris Bowers :: Age And The Status Quo

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I am new here (4.00 / 2)
and I as wondering if abuse was something the mods tolerated or banned for.  The reason I am asking is because on other well known progressive blogs the abuse is toxic.  I want to constructively criticize or praise without being called a troll or such.  On some blogs if you say one negative thing avout the President they run you out.  Even if the criticism is fair.

Troll! (4.00 / 1)
Even thinking something negative about the great O is bannable here.

And no, I'm not being serious.  


[ Parent ]
Experiment (4.00 / 1)
Jump right in and see how it plays out.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Jump right in (4.00 / 3)
k, but they were saying things to me at some sites the Sopranos would blush at.  I just about got away from politics because of it.  I think name calling and abuse is unproductive.

[ Parent ]
You'll get some of that here, guaranteed. (0.00 / 0)
Thankfully, the Keystone Kos Kops (my own pet name for such vermin as you describe) appear far less able to abuse the system here as a means of running dissenters out than they are at the Mediocre Orange Hype or Democratic Underground.  Trolls to watch out for are HouseofProgress, Gray, and some of their hangers-on.  They love to abuse the rating system.



[ Parent ]
Wonder what impact age… (4.00 / 1)
...will have in the era of structural unemployment, when it seems as if the middle-aged are more likely to be displaced in the new job market. Will they seek change or the jobless status quo?

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

Exception (0.00 / 0)
If we get real reform on health care it will be in large part because of the aging population/longer life spans. Even if that demographic fears change it's existence is one of the reasons major change is needed.  

I just read yesterday's thread, and (4.00 / 3)
here's my two bits. First, as to the actual situation today - a large majority of us do not find ourselves in a stagnant economic status. We are in fact worse off now than, say, 15 years ago. Besides lay-offs and health-care costs, a CPI based on the same - or equivalent - factors as that of the 1970s would show a decline in average and median real wages.

The inflation rate calculations changed under both Reagan (Greenspan) and Clinton to eliminate 'volatility' (food and fuel) and to add in technological improvements as a positive factor (even though the functionality for the product stayed essentially the same). 'Real wage' adjustments are made on the basis of this inflation rate calculation.

Second, things have changed. The ruling class in this country has coalesced and consolidated control over the major institutions. C. Wright Mills described the social developments and predicted the current situation in The Power Elite; Bill Domhoff updated this analysis with Who Rules America? and has also developed a theory of resistance.

As a Marxist, I think that this consolidation can only end in implosion. The 'contradictions' have emerged writ large, and the only question of real importance is how to organize and consolidate a progressive/left movement.

By the way - did I mention that I'm running for president?


inflation - needs vs wants (0.00 / 0)
Electronic gadgets are cheaper. Housing, healthcare, and education are way more expensive. The bottom line is that people are much less secure economically and therefore have less leverage and less power. Big win for the ruling class.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
Makes me wonder (4.00 / 3)
There was an article in the NYT magazine a few weeks ago about the changing nature of the politics of senior citizens, and how a demographic group most responsible for progressive policies like Social Security and Medicare has shifted in increasing opposition to Obama vs. Clinton at this point of the 93-94 healthcare debate.  There was a graphic in the article showing right track/wrong track numbers for those over 65, and it's funny, because ultimately, what constitutes the right track/wrong track opinion of someone who is 75 or 80 years old?

Such an individual reaps all of the benefits of government (no complaints from me), but will bear virtually none of the debt or the future taxes or costs, yet many believe the country is on the wrong track and adamantly oppose the public option and the reform package in general. To be brutally honest but statistically accurate, a lot of those individuals will be dead within 3-5 years, before the public option really has any effect anyway.  Of course, on the contrary, support for the public option is strongest among the young, and if we're willing to take on the taxes, debt, whatever may come of such a plan passing, who are the anti-reform senior citizens to oppose it (or be manipulated or motivated in these feelings by every anti-reform group under the sun)?

While I understand that there is not uniformity of opinion and action among those older than 65, on this issue or any other, from a strictly political point of view it seems that progressivism may need to rid itself of the concerns of increasingly conservative senior citizens.  I do not intend for this to be read as anti-old people or whatever, but it does seem to me that (increasingly conservative) senior citizens are currently attracting a disproportionate amount of political attention, which only serves to push the congressional debate, the media, etc. in a more conservative direction and further derail meaningful progressive reform.


Who're you calling conservative? :-) (4.00 / 3)
I'm 66, and believe me, no offense taken. As for being dead in 3-5 years, all I can say is that we all get our turn sooner or later, and 3-5 years, at my age, still seems like a bargain -- I wasn't sure, at one point, that I'd make thirty.

But you're right. The world, and its decision-making apparatus, belongs to those who are going to live in it, and to their children and grandchildren. More than anyone else, we geezers should be in a position to grant the wisdom in that. I, for one, would rather see funding concentrated on meaningful health care for the young than on heroic medicine aimed at providing me with another 20 years to carp.

I've paid my taxes for forty-odd years, and, Lord willing, will keep on paying them for the 3-5 left to me with no complaints except for one. Which is, of course, that our misguided stewards of empire haven't spent them on the right things. If you can fix that, I'll be happy to go to my reward.


[ Parent ]
no age group has a monopoly on greed or stupidity (4.00 / 1)
"progressivism may need to rid itself of the concerns of increasingly conservative senior citizens"- this is much better if the words "may" and "senior" are eliminated. The corporate madia always caters to the conservative position regardless of source.  

Government by organized money is no better than government by organized mob..... FDR

[ Parent ]
Really? (4.00 / 1)
Personally, I think that the "general lack of progress"* that started at about the same time real wages were flattened in the 1970s might have something to do with this chart:

Cui bono, and all. The nice thing about framing the Conservative Ascendancy as very successful politics practiced by the top 0.01% is that it also explains events like the largest wealth transfer in world history, from the citizens to the banksters, as cheerfully enabled on a thoroughly bi-partisan basis in 2008.

But pray continue with the inter-generational narrative! Us oldsters can take it. Bareback Andy would be proud.



I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


Good telling the truth. (0.00 / 0)
Some would prefer to give false excuses for why progressives haven't been able to make gains in recent years.  Others, such as you and I, prefer the truth.



[ Parent ]
Race and other cultural issues (0.00 / 0)
As a rebuttal to the claim that this generation of progressives hadn't accomplished much, you, Chris, pointed to the gains made on civil rights issues. Fair enough, but those gains have contributed to our obscene class stratification. Which is to say: the right and corporate power have used cultural issues--race, patritoism, etc--to expand their power. It's no coincidence that the country has been going pretty much downhill economically in the years since the cultural upheaval of the sixties--a time period that saw simultaneously the growth of Money's power over politics. Clinton facilitated a corporate takeover of the party from which it'll be near impossible to escape. Changing demographics offer hope, but the continual corporatism of the great symbol of demographic change, Barack Obama, shows how deep the problem is. There's no easy way out. The necessary laws--public financing, for example--can't be passed. The necessary pols can't get elected. Blogs and their effort to reinvent the party are a noble experiment, but the jury is still out on the strategy. People can be forgiven for wanting to ditch the party and start over.  

It is what (4.00 / 1)
I call Fundamentalist Americanism.  The idea that if you challenge the so called freedom of free enterprise you are a pinko commie and it is better to help a corporate raider screw you than to regulate the corporate raider to keep from screwing you because the latter is anti-American.  Better to get screwed as a patriot than sit comfortably as a socialist.  This is a condition Democrats are afflicted with too, because they have operated with the idea that they can make changes within the current corporatocracy rather than coming to grips with the fact that this is in some ways a fascist nation that needs to be radically reformed.

[ Parent ]
I remember vowing to never trust anybody over 25. That was in 1968. (4.00 / 3)
I'll be sixty next year.  We were all pretty crazy back in the day, but not crazy enough to believe that stuff for long, and it has not aged well.  Blaming a lack of political progress on an aging population just doesn't sound right, I'm sorry.

Other explanations, like the growing corporate stranglehold of media and its becoming more proficient at manipulating public (and private) opinions and lives on behalf of our ruling elite do seem to have more explanatory power than just blaming the geezers.

And I didn't say it in the previous exchange, but I too have trouble with the assertion that "the current generation" of activists has done more than some of its predecessors.  In the first place all of us whether young or not who are alive and active at any given time are, well, alive and active.  So the "progress" achieved say, in the 1930s or the era of the Civil War and Reconstruction was the product of the efforts of young as well as old of those times.  The struggle for social progress does not shake out as the young against the old.  That is more of an advertising notion (stemming from the need to market to the young differently from the old) than one arising out of a serious study and appreciation of historical phenomena.

As the young folks would say, I am just not feeling this.

And it's probably too soon to evaluate the effect of what Chris is in the habit of the "progressive movement" alongside the achievements of thirty five and seventy five years ago, if you want to give them a good grade.  Those folks gave you social security, overtime pay, and end to most Jim Crow laws, the right to vote for southern blacks (about half of all African Americans live in the south) Medicare, and an earlier end to the war in Vietnam which likely saved uncounted hundreds of thousands of lives.  I can't think of much of anything done in the last five to fifteen years that matches any one of those milestones, can you?  

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston


Plus (0.00 / 0)
Environmentalism on a big time scale.  Things like the Super Fund cleanup, mile per gallon standards on vehicles, a boomlet in solar heating, cleaning up (physically) the output of utility and other plants.

A floor to the economy: SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment compensation, worker's compensation, food stamps.


[ Parent ]
The aging population theory (0.00 / 0)
is a more robust scientific explanation of what is happening, and very hard to argue against.

Still, it is not as fun as blaming television. Wouldn't we all be younger at heart if we watched less TV?

Seriously, Chris has a very good point. I think, as the USA population get older on average, we are becoming more like Europe, which has already taken this path. The greatly increased political polarization is one way that we are becoming more like Europe. This is not a good thing. In Europe, increased political polarization makes it difficult to tolerate freedom of speech. We are getting there in the USA now, since right-wing "speech" is starting to encourage criminal behavior on a regular basis.


No it's not. Coincidence is not causation, so it is neither robust nor scientific (0.00 / 0)
it doesn't begin to be so unless you can demonstrate that there were proportionately fewer geezers at other times when social advances occurred, like the Civil War and Reconstruction, like the 30s and the 60s.  You can show it for the 60s, but what about the others?  And how can you demonstrate that it is causal rather than coincidental?  Doesn't sound to me like this age-ist theory of historical progress, or lack of the same even explains itself.

Sheesh.  I feel kind of stoopid even having to argue this.  I'm gonna go get back under this Honda and see if I can muscle the gas tank back in.

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston


[ Parent ]
There is some quantitative support (4.00 / 1)
You have a good point that all of this is very speculative, so clearly I was exaggerating by using a word like "scientific." And, yes, causality can't be shown.

But, there were fewer geezers in the USA during the 19th century.

I'm too old to be a age-ist, but I have noticed that many people become more set in their ways and thus less tolerant with age. This is especially true in rural areas where there is little incentive to learn tolerance. When I went to a "town hall" last month, the vast majority of the right wingers screaming hateful stuff looked pretty old. (At least they had bad skin compared to the liberals.)


[ Parent ]
And good luck with the Honda! <eom> (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
couldn't handle it by myself. help is coming tomorrow (0.00 / 0)
Thanks.  DIY car repair has never been my strong suit.  I've stretched the replacement of a fuel pump (inside the gas tank) and a brake booster out all week between other chores and they still ain't finished.

Next week's project is a starter and some kind of fuel problem for an old VW Cabrio, before it gets too cool to drive with the top down.  Wanna be able to see those fall colors.

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston


[ Parent ]
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