Is there any greater knowledge, other then parsing his words, (4.00 / 1)

That that count is 51 Senators, and not 50 Senators plus Biden. I read it as just Senators. That means we have a very comfortable 1 vote margin.

Is there any thought about which of the 9 votes we dont have, is movable. Which seats are able to be threatened with the 2010 election, are any subjecvt to recall, are anyones nyumbers falling because of this fight (like Grassely's(R) for example) who might find a support loss frightening.

But alive and kicking is good news.

BTW thanks for re-iterating that this probable (very very likely) loss of both PO Amendments to the Ctte. bill, is not an unexpected or shocking or permanent loss.

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The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 17:33:34 PM UTC

5 Nos (0.00 / 0)

The Senate Finance Committe voted 15-8 against a Public Option.  The five Democrats voting no were Baucus, Carper, Bill Nelson, Blanche Lincoln and Kent Conrad.

Hope the Baucus bill dies so it can't be passes into law.  It is worsae than nothing.

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by: David Kowalski @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 19:10:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Then schumers version got 10 votes (0.00 / 0)

And we dont want this to be voted down, just passed pout of ctte.

The flkoor votes and the conference are the ones that matter.

The good of today's votes is the indications of the number of votes for any PO. As this was the most conservative ctte. What they can "almost support" is going to get good support on the floor.

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The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 20:47:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Whip a Senate firewall? (4.00 / 2)

Can the anti-public option faction get to 50 votes?  They assume the Dem caucus will roll over, but is that the case? Are there or can we get 10+ Senators who will pledge to vote against any reform without a public option? In short, if their side has less support why should it be the starting point on the floor?

Is there some way to publicly demonstrate this?

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans

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by: Steve in Sacto @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 18:02:10 PM UTC

Effectively its not needed in the Senate. (0.00 / 0)

he House pledge block is full cover for any supporter. Becasue they will nopt pass even a conference bill without a strong PO, the Senate will not try and foist one on them.

The more vocal and fierce they sound about killing any bill that doesnt go half far enough, the more the Senate knows they have to make a real reform bill.

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The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 20:50:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fight on all fronts (4.00 / 2)

Like the 50 state strategy, let's fight this with a bicameral strategy. You might be right, but let's not put all eggs in one basket.

Why not try to make clear that a bill w/o a public option is a dead letter in both chambers? Baucus voted against Schumer because "it can't get to 60." Left entirely unsaid is that the Baucus mark can't get to 60 either. I'm not sure it can get 50.

Opposing a bill with mandates but no public option is good policy and good politics. We should encourage this as an acceptable public position for Dem senators. A whipped hard count on this could be very powerful -- particularly if, as I expect, that number is greater than number of Dems who oppose a public option.

In short, where does the majority of the majority stand? We need to establish this before Reid just adopts Baucus/Finance under the false pretense that it's the one closest to 60.

Self-refuting Christine O'Donnell is proof monkeys are still evolving into humans

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by: Steve in Sacto @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 21:26:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'd like that. (0.00 / 0)

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

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by: HousesofProgress @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 21:29:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I agree, which Senators would be likely to act as a block? (0.00 / 0)

I think Roland Burris already said he would oppose a bill with no public option. (on the final vote, not necessarily on cloture)

I bet Bernie Sanders would too.

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by: liberalmaverick @ Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 03:49:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

'maybe approaching 50' does not = 'comfortably 51' (0.00 / 0)

So what's your bottom line, Senator?  Or are you just stringing words together?

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by: Weeferdog @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 at 19:17:42 PM UTC