Health Care, Racism & The Authoritarian Divide-Part 1

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Oct 03, 2009 at 16:00


Last weekend I wrote critically about Obama's denial of Jimmy Carter's claim that racism has played a role in the vitriolic opposition that's been expressed to him and his agenda, which has been particularly focused on health care reform the last two months.  I'll have more to say about Obama's misguided attitude later this weekend, but my purpose is much broader.  I want to argue that we're involved in a conflict of worldviews that's quite different from the New Deal era, at the same time that policy initiatives such as the stimulus package, health care reform, and combating global warming are all grounded to some extent in the dominant New Deal paradigm-whether Obama can admit it or not.  There is complex confusion about what the current political options actually are (regardless of questionable convention judgments of viability), and I want to try to clarify them.  In a nutshell, my perspective is as follows:

(1) During the New Deal (Fifth Party System) Era, the dominant ideology was New Deal liberalism, which revolved around activist government with a broadly economic populist thrust.  The various forms of opposition to it were fragmented and often politically incoherent.  The most politically successful Republican counter-move was toward imitative liberalism, which claimed to do a better job of implementing/administrating New Deal-style programs-such as Eisenhower's championing of the Intestate Freeway system.  At the same time, the most base-stirring counter-move was the authoritarian jingoism epitomized in full flower by McCarthyism-which had virtually no policy content whatever, but consisted almost entirely of demonizing its perceived enemies.

(2) Tellingly, Richard Nixon, who as a tactical and strategic master of authoritarian jingoism, was the pivotal politician in ending the New Deal Era and introducing the Sixth Party System, which revolved around strategic deployment of political power, with ideology and pragmatic policy both relatively submerged. Nothing much interested Nixon aside from power itself, and demonizing outgroups was his most basic stratagem, which over time came to dominate the Sixth Party System--even though overturning structural bastions of Democratic power was beyond the GOP's reach.  Today's Democrats are split like a funhouse mirror reflection of Eisenhower/McCarthy.  There are more differences than similarities between the two parties and the two eras, but the fact of the split, and the dominance of the least representative faction are similar.

(3) The historical challenge is that (a) only New Deal liberalism has a template for pragmatic problem-solving (albeit in need of updating), but (b) Obama accepts Sixth Party System framework of politics, including the Nixonian demonization of New Deal liberalism, which effectively eliminates all his realworld pragmatic options, (c) even as he vainly promises to end the demonization-driven polarization that's the very essence of the Sixth Party System.  (d) Instead, the polarization only gets worse--the more Obama runs away from big government programs that can work, the more he's accused of being Hitler/Stalin/Big Brother-(e) while his denial of reality on how to confront such polarizing demonization repeats the most self-defeating stratagem of Democrats from throughout the Sixth Party System, and even as far back as the 1940s.

I refer to the above as "my perspective," because I do not presume to argue for it comprehensively in this diary or its follow-up.  Rather, I claim that having that perspective in mind helps to make sense of the material I'm about to present, and that no contradictory perspective I'm familiar with can do as good a job.  In this diary miniseries, I want to do two things: In Part One, I introduce some new information about the role of authoritarianism in driving polarization, particularly as it is manifested in the health care debate, and compare this with earlier movements toward increased polarization during the Sixth Party System.  In Part Two, I pick up on a link from Digby about the role of ritual defamation, and discuss how ritual defamation is an essential stratagem of the GOP in establishing its strategic dominance during the Sixth Party System.  If we are to break out of the current holding pattern, and successfully initiate a Seventh Party System that breaks dramatically and necessarily with the past, we must learn to effectively counter and decommission the ritual defamation as a routine political practice.

Paul Rosenberg :: Health Care, Racism & The Authoritarian Divide-Part 1
The Authoritarian Setup

In the past, I have repeatedly referred to both Robert Altemeyer's work on rightwing authoritarianism (RWA) and to social dominance theory, developed by Jim Sidanius and Felicia Pratto, which includes an individual attitudinal factor, social dominance orientation (SDO).  Roughly speaking RWA can be thought of as characteristic of authoritarian followers, SDO of authoritarian leaders.  But we're not just talking about top-level leaders with SDO or low-level footsoldiers with RWA.  It's more complicated than that-made more complicated by the fact that some people exhibit high levels of both.  In addition, there are a number of other factors that researchers have studied over the years that also play into making people more rigid, close-minded and authoritarian.  All these factors also tend to contribute to group bias in various forms, including racism, sexism and homophobia.  I've also written about how beliefs that blacks are to blame for their lower economic status correlate with lower support for social spending across a wide range of issues. I'd now like to add some new information to all the above.

The authors of a new book, Authoritarianism & Polarization in American Politics have weighed in in favor of Carter's interpretation, writing at the Washington Post shortstack blog the week before last:

Our research favors Carter's interpretation and adds some hard data to the debate. In fact, the partisan divide today is even more troubling than if it was driven by race alone.

Americans' views of political issues and their partisan attachments are being increasingly shaped by gut-level worldviews. On one side of many issues are those who see the world in terms of hierarchy, think about problems in black and white terms, and struggle to tolerate difference. On the other are those who favor independence over hierarchy, shades of gray over black-white distinctions, and diversity over sameness.

We call this dividing line an authoritarian one, and we find that what side of the line people fall on explains their positions on a wide ranging set of issues, including race, immigration, gay rights, civil liberties, and terrorism. This is because what lies behind these preferences is a larger difference in worldview, where people understand reality in starkly different ways. This, in turn, leads to rancorous and irreconcilable-seeming political conflicts.

In short, these authors are making the same sort of argument that I have over the years-it's not racism per se in isolation, but racism as part of a larger authoritarian gestalt.

Authoritarianism & Health Care

They go on to focus on health care:

As evidence of the link between health care and racial attitudes, we analyzed survey data gathered in late 2008. The survey asked people whether they favored a government run health insurance plan, a system like we have now, or something in between. It also asked four questions about how people feel about blacks.

Taken together the four items form a measure of what scholars call racial resentment. We find an extraordinarily strong correlation between racial resentment of blacks and opposition to health care reform.

Among whites with above average racial resentment, only 19 percent favored fundamental health care reforms and 57 percent favored the present system. Among those who have below average racial resentment, more than twice as many (45 percent) favored government run health care and less than half as many (25 percent) favored the status quo.

No such relationship between racial attitudes and opinions on health care existed in the mid-1990s during the Clinton effort.

The only thing surprising to me about the above is the last sentence. I haven't seen their raw data, so perhaps they only mean that nothing like the current striking relationship existed.  It seems highly improbable to me that there was no relationship at all, given the long-standing relationship between racism and hostility to the federal government.  

Earlier Evidence of Authoritarian Polarization

What's more the move toward polarization around worldviews has been underway for a long time, as can be seen by these charts based on General Social Survey data, showing how views on abortion have changed over time.  This is an ideal indicator measure of authoritarian attitudes, since it has to do with the control of other people's bodies, and the denial of their own free will. The two charts below break GSS data up into three time-frames, the first of which is more reflective of the New Deal era (Fifth Party System) coalitions, showing how they coalitions have changed during the Sixth Party System.  Both charts register support for abortion in 4 cases involving a woman's choice-because she's unmarried, because she's poor and can't afford another child, because she doesn't want more children, or for any reason whatsoever.  The four bars in the charts represent, in descending order, support for abortion all four cases, three of four cases, two of four cases, or just one case.  The first chart is organized horizontally by party, then ideology, from liberal Democrat to conservative Democrat, then liberal independent to conservative independent, etc.  The second is organize by ideology, then party, from liberal Democrat to liberal Republican, then moderate Democrat to moderate Republican, etc.

This first chart makes it clear that independents of all three ideological orientations were more supportive of abortion than Democrats of similar orientations during the first time period.  By the last time period, their views were virtually identical for liberals and moderates, while conservative independents were considerably less supportive.  One can also see a significant decline in Republican support, which is particularly sharp among conservative Republicans.

The fact that independents were more supportive of abortions than Democrats were during the first time period is particularly noticeable in the first time period of the second chart set, giving the top chart its pronounced wave-like appearance.  Note in particular how much more supportive conservative Republicans were than conservative Democrats:

By the last time period, the wave-like appearance has been transformed into an almost perfect (monotonic) decline-except for the fact that moderate Republicans are more supportive than moderate independents. Thus, a polarization process around "social issues" which are associated with authoritarianism has been well underway for some time.  What's been observed around health care reveals how that polarization is both trickling down into more specific policy areas and intensifying-in short, how it's becoming increasingly ubiquitous politically.  In short, a reflection of coherent worldviews.

The New Deal era gave us a party system with a much less coherent arrangement-albeit one that was driven by coherent pragmatic concerns.  The Democrats were a much larger party than the Republicans, defined by support for welfare state and activist government, but divided somewhat by race, which was generally submerged as an issue.  The Republicans were much more fragmented, with a liberal wing that accepted the New Deal, but offered to manage it better, and a variety of different conservative and ultra-conservative factions.  The Sixth Party System can be seen as a period in which a different set of concerns became more salient, altering the parties' makeup and trending toward a more coherent division of the political space-but not necessarily one that's anywhere near as pragmatically effective.

Summary Argument

The very brief post concludes:

It would be silly to assert that all, or even most, opposition to President Obama, including his plans for health care reform, is motivated by the color of his skin. But our research suggests that a key to understanding people's feelings about partisan politics runs far deeper than the mere pros and cons of actual policy proposals. It is also about a collision of worldviews.

Viewed through that lens, it is not at all surprising that Rep. Joe Wilson blurted out "You lie!" following a reference to illegal immigrants, another object of grave concern to the more authoritarian.

Beneath the arguments about government intrusion into the health care market, death panels, and such, a much more emotionally-laden dynamic is at work. Views about race along with a suite of other visceral matters are linked to people's opinions about health care reform, which likely explains why the present debate has caused a much stronger uproar than it did in 1994.

Obama ran on, and continues to believe in a vision of transcending, even "healing" the culture wars.  For him, this is fused with his promise of "change we can believe in."  But this vision seems fatally flawed in two regards:  First, the culture wars are intensifying, trickling down from the shift in abortion views as a broad indicator to the evidence on health care reform, a much more specific policy view.  Second, the kind of pragmatic government activism Obama promises is inherently liberal, as the New Deal era showed, but Obama instinctively and ideologically rejects the very sorts of solutions that could work, because he is stuck in the Sixth Party System culture war frame that such policies are "too liberal."

Politically, Obama has tried to finesse this contradiction (quite unconsciously, in all probability) by switching the meaning of "pragmatic" from referring to the real world-in which politics is just one part-to referring to the political world of Versailles as it currently exists, which has largely been defined by conservative hegemonic dominance.  Even if this strategy were to "succeed" in the passing of legislation, it would ultimately prove no more pragmatic in the real world outside of Versailles politics than anything that the conservatives & the GOP have done since 1995--a period marked by remarkable chaos and policy failure.

Obama's denial of the role of racism may be tactically "smart" within the political framework he has assumed, and that fact that he has assumed that political framework has afforded him a certain degree of media peace.  But it cannot change the fact that his core vision is doubly flawed, as described above, and cannot ultimately deliver what it promises, anymore than George W. Bush could.  Obama was elected by going outside and beyond the existing political framework of Versailles, and many of his supports implicitly assumed that he would govern similarly.  Indeed, this seemed a given to many.   Instead, Obama has not only shut down his own grassroots operation, he has cancelled the 50-state strategy, discouraged outside progressive grassroots pressure, supported a group of conventional, appointed Senators, and praised the very Senators who did the most to neuter his stimulus package, and ensure continued budget crises at the state and local level.

In the book, Authoritarianism & Polarization in American Politics, the authors present this striking chart showing the strong relationship between support for corporal punishment of children and votes for Bush in the 2004 election:

I'll have more to say about it in Part II, tomorrow.  But for now, I'll simply note that it's a striking demonstration of how clearly a fundamental attitude about personal life translates directly to the realm of politics.  Given that the attitude in question relates directly to parenting styles, that should pretty well put an end to all objections to George Lakoff's grounding of liberalism and conservatism in contrasting family models.  


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Earplugs would be nice (4.00 / 10)
Put an end to all objections? Reasonable objections, perhaps. In the middle of a 40 year culture war, though, reasonable objections are the least of our concerns.

If anything is clear about the struggle that's overwhelmed this country, it's that the elites can no longer control how it's going to turn out. They themselves have been seduced by the apparent advantage which unreason confers on those willing to indulge in it, and have ignored the historical lesson which says that once you take up that particular cudgel, you can't put it down until no one is left standing.

That, it seems to me, is what's most pitiful about President Obama's attempts to remain above the fray. People are already gutting each other in the streets, both in figurative, and, increasingly, in literal terms. Skip Gates goes and drinks his beer, no doubt muttering under his breath the whole time. Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter, supposedly the very voice of saintly reason, calls a spade a spade. The rest of us just shake our heads, and wait for the Four Horsemen to arrive. As for the President, the more he lies, the more irrelevant he becomes.

Tell me again that health care reform is gonna turn out all right, or that a review of our Afghanistan policy is going to beat our JDAMs and Hellfires into ploughshares. Tell me again that Rush Limbaugh isn't gonna get a bunch more people killed -- even if they aren't important people.


well sure, that all seems right (0.00 / 0)
but what do you propose to do about it? :)

[ Parent ]
This sure does a good job (4.00 / 3)
of documenting the intensifying polarization since the 70s.
(Which has gone hand in hand with the stepped up assault on labor and erosion of wages, and the death march of exponential debt.)

So it's initially (and throughout) a top-down plan of ideological consolidation, while polarized attitudes then congeal at the family and grassroots level. Demagogues rise, make things messy sometimes, modify the corporatist organization of these shock troops, and so on dialectically.

It gets more and more virulent, with racism absolutely being one of the potent factors in the mix, even before Obama.

And so, given Obama's typical Democrat combo of corporatism-lite and weakness in the face of such extremism, he's bound to be utterly unprepared.

With the results we've seen.

The point about one main thread of today's Democratism being "imitative" conservatism is similar to my idea on what the Dems are doing with health care.

Given that their intent in pretending to seek health reform is really to seek the benefit of the insurance racket, why are they so intent not just on going through the motions while preserving the status quo, but on actually adding this radically aggressive mandate-without-cost-controls (i.e. the PO), unilaterally, thereby taking on 100% of the extreme political risk to throw the gangsters an extra bone?

It doesn't make sense from any sane political perspective. I don't think the Reps would ever be that stupid. It looks to me like an example of the geeky kid trying to imitate and outdo the cool kid and being incompetent and grotesque at it.      

http://attempter.wordpress.com


Yup! (4.00 / 1)
It looks to me like an example of the geeky kid trying to imitate and outdo the cool kid and being incompetent and grotesque at it.

They're bad enough with their "bring a yogurt spoon to a nuclear war" syndrome.  But then when they try to their hands at corruption and prove themselves even more inept....

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I think it's (4.00 / 1)
rather less dramatic than that. The Dems still think that the duplicity of their actions will be effectively masked by the media (who is in on the game) and overlooked by the disconnected/distracted body politic, still (partially) in a stupor from the last bubble economy. So, they are not so much inept, as weaselly. The problem for them is that there is indeed an economic catharsis coming that is going to produce many political casualties--though not necessarily for the better, in my opinion.

[ Parent ]
Weasily Is A Given (4.00 / 1)
The point is that they're inept as well.

It's both/and, not either/or.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Nixon (4.00 / 1)
My only issue with the analysis is it misses the fact that Nixon largely governed within the New Deal paradigm.  He might of demonized occasionally in his rhetoric, but he mostly governed within the New Deal sandbox.  I'd like to hear more on your opinion of Nixon's relationship with the New Deal.


Nixon Didn't Care About New Deal Policies (4.00 / 2)
All he cared about was power.  He would let the policies go wherever.  He saw policy as a distraction from power.  Of course he didn't like the policies, but he was focused so intently on the struggles he felt he could win that the other stuff simply didn't hold his interest.

We make a big mistake if we try to understand Nixon in terms of policies.  That's simply not how he saw the world.

For my money, the single most insightful book about Nixon by a mile is Richard Reeves President Nixon: Alone in the White House.  AS Reeves makes clear, Nixon was obsessive over political strategy, and had very serious plans to try to completely reconfigure American politics. He had no use for the GOP establishment, and was quite willing to toss the party aside and form a new party, if that was what it took.

If one must try to bridge the two worlds, I'd hazard that Nixon was fine with New Deal programs, so long as they fulfilled a "bread and circuses" role for shoring up authoritarian rule.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Exactly right (4.00 / 2)
Nixon's relation to policy was purely cynical. We can reasonably call him "the last liberal president" on the surface of his policies at times, but it was simply about weening away labor and liberals from the Democratic Party in an effort to shift the balance of power.

He established EPA, OSHA and other items simply to disempower the liberal base. It was his labor policies in particular that laid the groundwork for the kind of class and race resentment that led to "Reagan Democrats" later on. Make policy entreaties with workers and add in some lovely race resentment stuff and there you go! Founding EPA kept the enviros from making too much noise and so on. It was just about taking the wind out of the Democratic sails.

Classic Macchiavelli.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
Nixon and Obama (4.00 / 1)
The reason I bring this up, of course, is I consider Obama to be our Nixon, even though he would like to be our Reagan.  The analogy only goes so far, but it is reasonably close.

While I don't think Obama only cynically cares about power, I do think his relationship with policy is different than most people's.  He seems to honestly believe the best policy is one achieved by bringing people together and hashing out all the various proposals and searching for commonality.  In most cases, unfortunately, "people" means the power brokers involved in the particular issue.


[ Parent ]
Also, Unfortunately (4.00 / 2)
the "ideas" on one side are on the level of "let's throw dog poop on the cat!"

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Taken by surprise (0.00 / 0)
The good news, if you want to call it that, is it appears Obama was honestly taken by surprise by this.  I call that good, because it implies course directions are possible.

Then again, he still believes in Olympia Snowe and a couple others.


[ Parent ]
And Yet, (4.00 / 3)
six months later it still hasn't sunk in.

Such is the power of Obama's ideology over his perception of reality.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
that's good news for what you think about his decency (0.00 / 0)
but it doesn't say much about his powers of observation.  it's been at least 15 years since Republicans stopped acting in good faith, if not longer.  I picked up on it by 2003, and I consider that pretty f"£king late.  What's his excuse?

Anyway, it's hard to tell with a politician to what extent their errors are matters of decency and to what extent they're matters of calculation - I don't think it honestly matters that much if they're consistent and there's no way to change them.


[ Parent ]
Experience (0.00 / 0)
Remember, Obama actually did some pretty good work with Republicans his few years in congress.  He had similar experiences in Chicago.

Individually, this actually works.  You find someone on the other side who agrees with you on some subject and you work it through.  I think Obama believed he could make this work as president as well.

But this only works on the smaller items.  Big ticket items come down to blocks more than individuals.  I think Obama misunderstood the pressure Republicans feel from their base and other Republicans on these issues.  Bill freak'n Frisk just endorsed the public option, but there is zero chance he would have if he was still in office.


[ Parent ]
yes but that means he wasn't paying any attention to national politics for the past 15 years (0.00 / 0)
or he didn't understand it.  that's depressing.

[ Parent ]
it's the last sentence that's key (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
nixon underxcut the political impetus that extended new deal policies (4.00 / 2)
he tried to limit them by doing things like indexing the cost of living allowances on social security benefits so that there wouldn't be votes in congress on increasing the benefits every few years (which were politically impossible to vote down).  so in that sense, he did what he could to undercut the new deal by shifting the politics around programmes without being able to fundamentally undercut them (which would have been political suicide at that point), the Southern strategy, etc. and thereby laid the groundwork for Reagan.

[ Parent ]
I'm about to rain on this impressive parade using Lakoff (4.00 / 1)
This is a piece I found in an internet search.  Thank you, Paul, for mentioning Lakoff. I searched because I'm just not ready to give up on Obama.

You write:

the kind of pragmatic government activism Obama promises is inherently liberal, as the New Deal era showed, but Obama instinctively and ideologically rejects the very sorts of solutions that could work, because he is stuck in the Sixth Party System culture war frame that such policies are "too liberal."

And this:

Even if this strategy were to "succeed" in the passing of legislation, it would ultimately prove no more pragmatic in the real world outside of Versailles politics than anything that the conservatives & the GOP have done since 1995--a period marked by remarkable chaos and policy failure.

First, here's the link to the Lakoff piece that I'm about to quote at length:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com...

The piece was written as an advance on Obama's February 24, 2009, address to a Joint Session, the theme of which could be labeled the economy, as the speech followed passage of the Stimulus bill.

[From Lakoff's intro:]
As President Obama prepares to address a joint session of Congress, what can we expect to hear?

The pundits will stress the nuts-and-bolts policy issues: the banking system, education, energy, health care. But beyond policy, there will be a vision of America-a moral vision and a view of unity that the pundits often miss.

What they miss is the Obama Code. For the sake of unity, the President tends to express his moral vision indirectly. Like other self-aware and highly articulate speakers, he connects with his audience using what cognitive scientists call the "cognitive unconscious." Speaking naturally, he lets his deepest ideas simply structure what he is saying. If you follow him, the deep ideas are communicated unconsciously and automatically. The Code is his most effective way to bring the country together around fundamental American values.

For supporters of the President, it is crucial to understand the Code in order to talk overtly about the old values our new president is communicating. It is necessary because tens of millions of Americans-both conservatives and progressives-don't yet perceive the vital sea change that Obama is bringing about. ...

Behind the Obama Code are seven crucial intellectual moves that I believe are historically, practically, and cognitively appropriate, as well as politically astute.

[From]3. Biconceptualism and the New Bipartisanship
...
Biconceptual, partly progressive, Republicans do exist in Congress, and the president is not going to give up on them. But as long as the conservative message machine can activate its values virtually unopposed in conservative districts, movement conservatives can continue to pressure biconceptual Republicans and keep them from voting their conscience on many issues. This is why a nationwide progressive message machine needs to be organized if the president is to achieve unity through biconceptualism.

[From] 7. Contested Concepts and Patriotic Language
...
For forty years, from the late 1960's through 2008, conservatives managed, through their extensive message machine, to reframe much of our political discourse to fit their worldview. President Obama is reclaiming our patriotic language after decades of conservative dominance, to fit what he has correctly seen as the ideals behind the founding of our country.
...

"Freedom" will no longer mean what George W. Bush meant by it. Guantanamo will be closed, torture outlawed, the market regulated. Obama's inaugural address was filled with framings of patriotic concepts to fit those ideals. Not just the concept of freedom, but also equality, prosperity, unity, security, interests, challenges, courage, purpose, loyalty, patriotism, virtue, character, and grace. Look at these words in his inaugural address and you will see how Obama has situated their meaning within his view of fundamental American values: empathy, social and well as personal responsibility, improving yourself and your country. We can expect further reclaiming of patriotic language throughout his administration.

All this is what "change" means. In his policy proposals the President is trying to align his administration's policies with the fundamental values of the Framers of our Constitution. In seeking "bipartisan" support, he is looking beyond political affiliations to those who share those values on particular issues. In his economic policy, he is realigning our economy with the moral missions of government: protection and empowerment for all.
...

...About 80% of the talking heads on tv are conservatives. Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are as strong as ever. There are now progressive voices on MSNBC, Comedy Central, and Air America, but they are still overwhelmed by Right's enormous megaphone. Republicans in Congress can count on overwhelming message support in their home districts and homes states. That is one reason why they were able to stonewall on the President's stimulus package. They had no serious media competition at home pounding out the Obama vision day after day.

Such national, day-by-day media competition is necessary. Democrats need to build it. Democratic think tanks are strong on policy and programs, but weak on values and vision. Without the moral arguments based on the Obama values and vision, the policymakers will most likely be unable to regularly address both independent voters and the Limbaugh-FoxNews audiences in conservative Republican strongholds.

The president and his administration cannot build such a communication system, nor can the Democrats in Congress. The DNC does not have the resources. It will be up to supporters of the Obama values, not just supporters on the issues, to put such a system in place. Despite all the organizing strength of Obama supporters, no such organizing effort is now going on. If none is put together, the movement conservatives will face few challenges of fundamental values in their home constituencies and will be able to go on stonewalling with impunity. That will make the president's vision that much harder to carry out.



I Already Wrote About That At The Time It Was Written (4.00 / 1)
Right here at Open Left: "George Lakoff's "Obama Code" As A Partial Model".  It's far too long and complicated a diary to excerpt here, but the blueprint of my response is:

In fact, I think that Lakoff is primarily right as far as he goes, in the way that he situates his analysis of what Obama is seeking to do.  However I differ from Lakoff in three ways.  First, I believe there are other cognitive factors he does not take into account in has analysis.  Second, he gives insufficient attention to the historical dimension of hegemonic struggle.  Third, he gives insufficient attention to the realworld circumstances we face.  Because I think Lakoff's case is the best one out there, it is particularly fruitful to critique it, as it is most likely to advance genuine understanding, and to contribute to constructive criticism.

Needless to say, I've grown more skeptical of Obama since then.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Your previous diary on Lakoff's Obama Code is long and complicated (0.00 / 0)
as you said, but I just read it now and wish to venture some criticisms.

Lakoff writes: "Obama has consistently maintained that what I, in my writings, have called "progressive" values are fundamental American values. From his perspective, he is not a progressive; he is just an American. That is a crucial intellectual move."

You say:

What Lakoff calls "a crucial intellectual move," is, in fact, a move in the wrong direction-a move to accommodate conservative/authoritarian hegemony, rather than challenging it outright.

Before that you say:

First, that Obama doesn't explicitly argue that American values are fundamentally liberal or progressive-despite the abundant evidence that this is so-not just from Lakoff's cognitive science perspective, but from the very words of towering historical figures such as Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Lincoln, and countless others.

But I think that's the point of using the construct of "American values" that  are neither liberal or progressive. It advances Obama's doctrine of bipartisanship, arguably a revolutionary concept in the current political climate.

I also disagree with this

Once one acknowledges a multiplicity of possible progressive approaches, it is no longer a question of who grasps the progressive way more truly and fundamentally.  Rather, it is a question of which progressive way offers better guidance in which particular sense.  As I have argued on previous occasions, Obama's seeking of elite consensus makes him more similar to early 20th Century progressives than to post-Vietnam progressives, who were distinctly more populist in their orientation.  This constitutes a profound difference in outlook which Lakoff appears to gloss over, despite significant evidence that profoundly different cognitive orientations tend to be associated with each of these political traditions.

Are the early 20th Century progressives - the actual start of the movement - less desirable than the more populist post-Vietnam progressives? If so, why? Anyway, Lakoff is arguing Progressive values in an absolute sense, not the particulars of one era over another.

At another point in the post you advocate that Obama should contribute to a liberal political strategy that was advanced to promote Limbaugh as the face of the Republican party.

You write:

In fact, he [Obama] could develop a whole shtick about praising specific ordinary, everyday, self-identified conservatives, and contrasting their views and their actions with the views and actions of those who pretend to represent them. What comes into focus here is that while Lakoff has repeatedly-much to his credit-focused on the need to for progressive institution-building to fight against rightwing hegemony, he has done so as a committed citizen, not in any professional capacity.  He has not connected his brilliant work as a cognitive scientist with any more extensive analytical framework that connects his work in cognitive science with the historical and institutional study of hegemonic struggle. And this is where his analysis falls short.

And this:

In sum, I wholly agree with Lakoff that biconceptualism is vitally important.  However, I think that a more sophisticated analysis of hegemonic struggle-both in theory and in practice-is required in order to take full and realistic advantage of it.

This does not fall in Obama's lap. Lakoff is exhorting Progressives to create more of a media presence. We don't need more analysis of the hegemonic struggle, we need more infrastructure to counteract it.

Finally, you mentioned Lakoff's "Strict Father and Nurturant Parent (SF/NP for short)" in your opening to that post in February. It is extraneous to your critique of Lakoff's piece on the Obama Code and only confused what you were trying to say, as did your invocation of Social Dominance Theory (SDT). It wasn't apparent at the outset that this is a main bone of contention for you with Lakoff's call for more progressive media infrastructure.  


[ Parent ]
I'm Sorry, But (0.00 / 0)
All I see in your comment is a collection of opinions and assertions.  My diary laid out a coherent argument, which seems to escaped you, otherwise you'd never say that my discussion of SDT confused my argument.

I'll be writing another diary soon about Lakoff's misreading of Obama fairly soon.  I started it a couple of weeks ago, but there's been a rush of more pressing concerns that have delayed its completion.  I'd invite you to jump into that discussion & maybe we can hash some of this out.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I look forward to reading it (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
It does seem as Obama becomes more conservative... (0.00 / 0)
...and more right wing and more anti-populist, the harder he gets hit from the right for being a communist or socialist etc etc.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me-and I welcome their hatred. - FDR

"Given that...that should pretty well put an end to all objections to George Lakoff's grounding of liberalism and conservatism in contrasting family models. (0.00 / 0)
Although I agree that power dynamics in families and other social spaces work are important and I would guess they are linked to a person's politics in some ways, the chart itself does't prove this.  There could be many explanations for this data that don't prove anything beyond correlation (e.g. third variable that explains both, etc.).

Ordinarily Yes (4.00 / 1)
Correlation =/= causation, and all that.  But in this case, just look at the correlation level.  How are you going to get a third variable more fundamental than either of those two that will have an even higher correlation with each?

May as well go looking for magic ponies with a dowsing rod.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
well, for example, how about church attendance? (0.00 / 0)
how about a combination of factors, all of which interact with each other in different proportions?  Things tend to be more complicated than this in the real world - though, again, I agree, that family dynamics play A role in this, and you can see evidence of that in many ways.

[ Parent ]
culture war (0.00 / 0)
You're missing the trend because of what's going on in the moment.  

My instinct, based on the increase in perspectives like Jon Stewart's in the mainstream media and the emphasis on 'pragmatism' in politics, is that what you  see today is the flameout of the extreme right wing because it has become disconnected from the center's of political power.  So while you will undoubtedly see massive overreactions by the far right like Fox News and the health care protesters and politicians like Joe Wilson and Michelle what's her face, there is a counter trend of multicultural technocracy that is on the rise and becoming the new center.  

The escalated social conflict right now is partly a result of the shift of Versailles to 'socially liberal, fiscally conservative' and the reaction of the far right to that.  The latter group (the Palin-Bush supporters of the world) will probably be around and they will do some absolutely horrific things, but the far right has lost the support of the mainstream.  You can see this from the abandonment of the mccain-palin ticket for obama's ticket by non-populist or center-right republicans or as far back as the exodus of slightly more reasonable figures like Richard Clarke from the Bush Administration.

The new strategy does't really bode much better for poor people in the United States but I do think that in the sense I've described above, the 'culture wars' are 'ending' or, at least, pro-market forces have switched sides.  This is structurally probably a lot to do with the economic/ideological model collapsing with the stock market and other crashes.  However, in a broader sense the roles of class, social hierarchies, and power won't end as long as we have the social system we have.

Anyway, just some thoughts.


Have You Read "Jihad vs. McWorld"? (4.00 / 2)
Although Benjamin Barber is, as always, uneven in this book, it's core insight is profoundly important--that technocratic global capitalism and atavistic ethno-religious tribalism feed off of their mutual enmity and grow stronger as a result, to the detriment of democratic culture--which for the most part means social democratic culture, because that's what putting democracy above the market yields.

From this POV, Obama doesn't represent a strengthening of democracy, but only technocracy and capitalist elites, which only further fuels the culture wars.  The tribalist right may be out of power, but their level of intensity is higher than ever, and thus there's no sign of the culture wars fading, only taking new directions.  Given how anti-majoritarian the US system is, the tribalist right would have to lose a good deal more power before it became irrelevant to national governance, particularly given that the neoliberals prefer them as opponents to social democrats, who are far more threatening to their legitimacy.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
yes, i can see the viability of this argument (0.00 / 0)
but how do you account for people like us and what we're doing? :)  Are we condemned to be powerless and irrelevant?  Sometimes it feels like it, but sometimes it doesn't.  Even if it's often implicit, there is pushback on the kinds of things you're talking about.  Moreover, there are historical geopolitical reasons that there is evidence for for why leftism was discredited (fall of Soviet Union) and there are similar reasons to believe that social democracy will play a stronger role in the next decade or two than it has in the past two.

Moreover, in several OECD countries, the center left party that has gutted itself of ideology (UK, Germany) is about done and is going to have to face a choice between becoming totally irrelevant and or finding a backbone, because it is the rightwing party that has won the battle of who represents technocratic capitalism.  It's different in the U.S., which perhaps is another argument for why it is vital to form a third party and support factions in the two parties that can articulate a progressive populism rather than a regressive or reactionary version.

However, the core insight you're talking about is known to me - i've looked at it where it emerged in extreme forms like in former British India and in Sri Lanka and other places where the destruction of a left goes hand in hand with the construction of the 'important' debate as that between exactly the two types of discourse you talk about above.  This is one of the reasons I think it is extremely imoprtant to understand as positive, rather than condemn, Obama's attempt to get beyond the divide.  He won't get beyond it, but the only way to get to a more authentic clash is to eliminate the power of a false discourse (the one you point to) - otherwise emotional passion of political conversations and the structural factors and the interest of politicians and the media will always trigger a reversion to the false discourse until it truly has been replaced by a more authentic debate.

Meanwhile, we can continue to build a third force - whether in the democratic party or outside it or both - that is social democratic, egalitarian and appreciates diversity.


[ Parent ]
Right Now Latin America Is The Vanguard (4.00 / 1)
No two Latin American countries have the same kind of social democratic movement, they are all homegrown hybrids.  And that's the best news imaginable.  So I don't feel quite so isolated because of them.

Indeed, the vast majority of the American people have strong social democratic tendencies--as seen by the broad support for social spending reflected in teh General Social Survey that I often refer to.  It's just that our elite political leaders never frame things in those terms (gee, I wonder why?)

I disagree fundamentally re Obama's "bipartisanship."  If it were from below, that would be one thing.  But the bipartisanship of elite factions is predicated on the marginalization not just of progressives, but of genuine democratic culture as well.  (It's no accident that Obama loves him some appointed senators.)

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
No accident (4.00 / 1)
If it is no accident that Obama loves appointed senators, it is also no accident that he pays more attention to the Republicans (especially the few designated "moderates") and the Blue Dogs.  These are not the people who put him in office.  For example, McCain won 32 of the 51 Blue Dog districts and many of the others were won by Obama by a small margin.

One of the smartest analyses you ever wrote, Paul, compared Obama to Wilson and said both favored top-down "progressive" government of the elite and by the elite.  That had to be at least a year and a half ago but it won me over instantly.

Don Young, the crotchetty Alaska Republican, says he represents only those who voted for him.  Obama almost goes the other way.  Dance with the ones who brung you.


[ Parent ]
here is the argument (0.00 / 0)
1. a pre-existing 'culture war' makes it impossible to have an argument about politics without falling into the terms of the culture war.
2. therefore, you have to find a way to neutralise it when the opportunity is available so that you can have an argument on different terms (e.g. power vs. disempowerment).
3. one way to do this is to wait for the system to turn on the culture war and then reach across the divide to the other side.
4. you're going to fail if you do this, but it still helps to create the space for the more legitimate argument.

Essentially, the argument is that there's so much fighting on the wrong grounds that it makes it imnpossible to have fighting on the right grounds, so a precodnition to having fighting on the right grounds is to create the space for honesty and civility.  Ergo, you benefit from a charistmatic but inssubstantial centrist leader, regardless of what he wants to do.


[ Parent ]
So What Size Bridge Do You Want? (0.00 / 0)
Large? Extra-Large?  Or Ginormous?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
whatever size you need and are capable of to reach the person you're communicating with (0.00 / 0)
there are obviously limits, and they reveal themselves.
but i agree with you that it's bullshit to not be pursuing other strategies at the same time like directly undermining political forces that are malevolent- i think it might be wiser to pursue them more indirectly.  that second half is missing entirely, which makes sense if you look at how the american politicl system is funded and take into account the last thirty years of cultural transformation and what that has resulted in (e.g. massive viewership for Fox News, for example).

anyway, regardless of what i want, i am talking about what i think is and how to deal with it.  i have abotu as much influence on the behavior of an american president once in office as i have gravitational pull on the earth.


[ Parent ]
Great diary and discussion. (0.00 / 0)
I learned a lot. I'll have to re-read it all tomorrow with a clear mind. For now, I'm curious about your definition of  "pragmatism" since you brought this up in other diaries, and it's been mentioned repeatedly in relation to Obama.

Second, the kind of pragmatic government activism Obama promises is inherently liberal, as the New Deal era showed, but Obama instinctively and ideologically rejects the very sorts of solutions that could work, because he is stuck in the Sixth Party System culture war frame that such policies are "too liberal."

Politically, Obama has tried to finesse this contradiction (quite unconsciously, in all probability) by switching the meaning of "pragmatic" from referring to the real world-in which politics is just one part-to referring to the political world of Versailles as it currently exists, which has largely been defined by conservative hegemonic dominance.  Even if this strategy were to "succeed" in the passing of legislation, it would ultimately prove no more pragmatic in the real world outside of Versailles politics than anything that the conservatives & the GOP have done since 1995--a period marked by remarkable chaos and policy failure.

I've always read Obama's "pragmatism" as both a short and long term strategy of getting legislation passed through congress, among other initiatives. In the short term, I see it as attempting to pass legislation according to the ideological limits currently in place. In other words, the sort of dealing we're seeing with Baucus, Snowe, etc. The reason I've been more tolerant of the short term strategy, even if apparently counterproductive to progressive aims, is because I figured the long term strategy was intended to address the structural field currently limiting the range of progressive possibilities. This includes, in my idealist vision, leading the right-wing to procedural and electoral failure, which is accomplished by letting the ideologically rigid opposition he is receiving, including the racism, to flourish. In providing moderate conservatives cover by dismissing Carter's claim, he is in a sense protecting the  right from precisely the type of criticism it might actually respond to. If Obama says there's no racism, how can moderates claim otherwise? Obama has disempowered  moderates by robbing them of the leverage they need to freeze out the extreme right. We're already seeing examples of this rupture with Lindsey Graham and others coming out against Beck and hate radio. This process would be hastened if Obama actually came out strongly against racism. That's the irony. Obama gains politically by ensuring the right wing is strong and legitimate.

Therefore, in a way I see Obama's pragmatism as being cynical. It's an attempt at gaining power by disempowering  moderate republicans and ensuring they stay stuck with a right wing incapable of winning. That's my political reading of his pragmatism and has nothing to do with policy and its effects on the real world. This is why I don't buy the view that Obama is weak. If he manages to expand his power it certainly is a testament to his strength, however cynical that strategy may be. It's an expression of power that's difficult to detect and given this environment, defend against. In other words, my unrealistic hope is that Obama's power base will expand enough to facilitate more progressive legislation by further limiting the influence of conservatives, either by incorporating them, or knocking them off by anchoring them to hateful extremism.

I guess you end up with a bigger democratic party, but as the house has shown, when you get big enough progressives have a greater voice. In general though, I agree that it's wrong-minded to attempt to gain more progressive power from within the political framework, than from the ground up. But that's where I see people like us fitting in. Conservatives are getting worked from both ends right now.

Maybe this doesn't make much sense.



pragmatism (4.00 / 3)
I've always read Obama's "pragmatism" as both a short and long term strategy of getting legislation passed through congress, among other initiatives.

In that case it's been failing miserably. He got the anemic version of the stimulus, learned nothing from the experience, and since then nothing has passed at all.

In the short term, I see it as attempting to pass legislation according to the ideological limits currently in place

There were no limits in place coming into 09. The sky was the limit. But Obama chose to impose upon himself these extreme limits and picayune "goals".

I've just never understood what's pragmatic or clever about taking an enemy who's down for the count, helping him back up, tending his wounds, letting him catch his breath, and only then "fighting" him, rather than just giving him the death blow right then and there.

All this "master plan" stuff, "11-dimensional chess"; it's all just a way of rationalizing Obama's fundamental character flaw. He's weak. He's not a fighter.

Unless, of course, he was always just a lying Bush corporatist. That's what the policy results say.

http://attempter.wordpress.com


[ Parent ]
cognitive dissonance, yes. (0.00 / 0)
All this "master plan" stuff, "11-dimensional chess"; it's all just a way of rationalizing Obama's fundamental character flaw. He's weak. He's not a fighter.

I admit the commentary on this site, especially Paul's, has made me rethink my views about Obama. It could be that I'm rationalizing his contradictory actions because I really like him. That's probably partly the case.

But there's two factors still preventing me from going all in on the "Obama is weak" theory. It's still early in his presidency. I think we need another 6 months before we can draw definite conclusions. Secondly, I'm not convinced the alternatives occasionally proposed by critics here would be substantially more effective in advancing a progressive agenda given the environment.



[ Parent ]
"Given the environment" (0.00 / 0)
This seems important - care to explain what you mean by this?

Politics is the art of the possible, but that means you have to think about changing what is possible, not that you have to accept it in perpetuity.

[ Parent ]
I mean the following: (0.00 / 0)
--Inheriting two unpopular, expensive and complicated wars
-- Inheriting an economic and financial crisis
-- Massive Debt
-- Political system geared toward status quo
-- Blue Dogs
-- Corporate lobbying
-- Right wing media distorting the truth and fanning the flames of hate 24 hours per day.
-- So-called liberal media promoting false conventional wisdom

There are probably other limitations, but these are the ones that come to mind. I don't think it's an easy environment to operate in, although many of these conditions provide justification for change.  


[ Parent ]
Russ Covers It Pretty Well (4.00 / 1)
But I'll just point out that Obama won a historic victory.  He won Indiana for cryin' out loud!  Last Dem to do that was LBJ.  The GOP was totally discredited, as was its philosophy. Big wins in the House and Senate, too.

Sure the GOP had adopted the strategy of filibustering everything as a matter of course. So a true pragmatist would have looked first at how to disable this strategy.   Obama could have made a big stink about it being so anti-democratic.  He could have done so repeatedly, as an ongoing theme, so that every time the GOP tried it, they would pay a price.  That would have been a very good pragmatic move on his part.

Backing it up, he should have kept his volunteer base fully engaged and mobilized.  For any given filibuster threat, he should have planned big public rallies in Senator's home states.  In the case of the stimulus vote, with Snowe & Collins gutting tens of billions from state budget aid--the biggest chunk from school spending, he should have done a whirlwind two-day tour of Maine, meeting with teachers, parents and principals, as well as a major public rally.  He should have made it really damaging to Collins & Snowe's images to do what they did.

Going on to health care, he would have opened the door wide to single-payer advocates, rather than shutting them out virtually completely.  By cutting them out, he pre-compromised, which no sane pragmatist would ever do.  A pragmatist would use has base against the other side, not frustrate and squash it.

That's just a couple of "for instance" examples of how a true pragmatist would take advantage of the strong position Obama was in when he took office.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
What would have realistically changed? (0.00 / 0)
Those seem like good strategies and I agree with them, but they don't seem like the fundamental changes you allude to in your diary that would provoke a shift in political paradigm. I guess I'll understand that part of your argument better once you post the second part.

But I'm just wondering what you think would have changed with the strategy you propose. Would Republicans have voted for health care reform or a public option? There is still the fundamental problem of how to get around a filibuster. How do you picture that having gone down in terms of actual votes? I'm just trying to picture how that would have worked, who would have voted with dems, etc.

I can picture just as easily a strong play by Obama having consolidated Republicans, along with Specter.

The other thing that's quite apparent to me is that threats of primaries are not necessarily effective. These people have jobs waiting in the private sector that pay exponentially more than their Senator gig. It's not a big deal if they get primaried or lose in an election. Many have no shame.

I guess I'm going to refrain from accepting that the president is weak for now. I still trust he has good intentions, and I'm willing to cut him some slack because of the enormous problems he inherited which undoubtedly changed his plans. I also think attempting a bipartisan approach was not necessarily unwise because it confirmed to the American public that it's impossible, and now Obama can proceed with a more party line approach with a willing public.  

I think for the majority of progressives the proof will be in the health reform bill. It will show one way or another whether his strategy was effective.

But I look forward to reading the second part since it seems to be about more fundamental and structural changes that could radically transform the political framework. That's what I was hoping to see when Obama was elected, but the system seems designed to impede change, along with the other environment factors I described.



[ Parent ]
We Need A Good Deal More Than What I Suggested (0.00 / 0)
I was only pointing out what Obama would do if he were an actual pragmatist with only reformist intentions.  If he had transformational intentions, obviously more would be called for.  But my point here was simply to underscore that even assuming his stated minimalist goals, he's not acting pragmatically.

Of course, no course of action can guarantee success, but the steps I outline would have significantly shifted the burden of heavy lifting, which is one of the most fundamentally pragmatic things you can do in the game of politics.

p.s.  This is not about whether Obama has "good intentions."  Indeed, one of the main points of all this is that he's an ideologue, not a pragmatist, and ideologues quite often have the best of intentions (see "Road To Hell, Paving Subcontract") but simply can't see what the actual consequences are.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I don't like to offer a slightly different view of pragmatism (0.00 / 0)
The only way to understand and recognize pragmatic behaviour is on the basis of consequences. If we take the example of health care reform, we have a good example to work with. I asked earlier if the strategy you proposed might have had any effects at a substantial level in one of two key areas: procedure (passing legislation) and policy (what the bill will do). I understood your critique of Obama that he was focusing on the former in lieu of the latter. Yet, there is a certain pragmatic motivation for doing so; the policy is contingent on it becoming law, therefore it makes sense to concentrate on the procedure since without success here it will not become policy. This to me is the opposite of ideological behaviour since an ideologue would first concentrate on policy only to have it fail in becoming law. I'll leave aside now the issue of what it means to have a "pragmatic" policy. I don't know enough to judge either way. One hopes health care reform will benefit the most people possible.

A second issue with respect to pragmatism concerns developing a strategy to achieve not only the minimum requirements for procedural success, but also some structural benefits. I'll explain.

Whenever discussing strategy, I think it's important to run a simulation or thought experiment. You mentioned the tactics you proposed would have "shifted the burden of heavy lifting". Again, what does that mean in tangible terms? How would health care reform pass through the senate with your approach in mind? Would there have been 10 republicans voting with democrats? Would the five to ten obstinate conservative democrats been more compliant? Would the bill have been more progressive? My opinion is no. I don't think it would have been significantly different. If you we look at the one bill that came immediately after Obama became president, in which he held the most power and highest approval rating, in which the bill itself was universally recognized as essential, it still turned out to be watered down and only 3 republicans joined in, one who later changed teams. That's it. The most favorable moment in his presidency turned out a watered down stimulus bill with 3 non-democratic votes. It's hard to imagine a different scenario 8 months down the road on a bill that is far more massive and significant in terms of structural changes, let alone the political consequences. It's fairly clear to just about everyone that the very livelihood of the Republican party depends on the failure of health care reform.

If we think about tactics in light of the possible, it seems fairly clear to me that nothing Obama could have done would have radically change the current dynamics. We would still be in a situation of needing 60 votes to break a filibuster, with ten or more important dem votes, who don't give a damn about being primaried, being flooded with insurance money. The problem isn't Obama and his management, it's the whole system. I can't think of any simulation that would have led to a more favorable result, I see all roads leading more or less to the same impasse. The only issue that MIGHT have changed is that the public option would be more secure, but that fight still isn't over.

Now getting back to pragmatism. Suppose one understands that all roads lead to the same impasse, isn't it pragmatic to select a path that will achieve other objectives? Suppose Obama played hardball for the last eight months and decided on a partisan approach and still produced this result. What would be the net gain? What I see is a net loss, he would have used excessive power to achieve the same result as taking a more modest path. The public, especially independents, might turn on him even further. Not what about the path he took? The net gain is that the public now understands, fully, that the Republicans are the problem and that they are obstructing procedure and distorting the truth. That's a net gain in my opinion. It lays the groundwork for passing other bills in the future. That to me is pragmatism at work. It takes into account the possible and the probable.

Therefore, if we are to accept his current behaviour as non-pragamatic it has to be understood in terms of the tangible results -- by which I mean votes and policy -- that would have otherwise been produced. It's still unclear to me what would have resulted following your approach.

I hope I'm not way off here, but that's my basic understanding of pragmatism. I guess I'm turning into an Obama apologist. It could be worse.  



[ Parent ]
EDIT: The title is supposed to read: "I WOULD like to offer a...." (0.00 / 0)
That was a strange slip.    

[ Parent ]
You ANd I Just Think In Totally Different Ways (0.00 / 0)
I could go through your comment and write a paragraph-long critique of virtually every sentence.

"Could" in theory.  But can't in practice.  So let me simply say this: There are some very basic groundrules in politics.  Practical rules of the road.  And Obama routinely ignores them.  End of story.


Addendum: Obama is NOT a supergenius, part 7,495,286

Contrary to being some sort of dazzling 11- (13-? 23-?) dimensional chess, these are the same sorts of dumbass moves that centrist Dems have been making since at least 1984, when Mondale's advisers insisted that he had to run to Reagan's right by promising to raise taxes on everyone.

The "pragmatism" here is very clear-cut: it helps the personal financial careers of individual players.  At the same time, that sort of individual pragmatism makes it virtually impossible for the Democratic Party to function in any way even remotely like its narrative promise.  As a result, all the top politicos form a pact--in the informal way that closed social groups the world around always do--which fundamentally redefines the meaning of "success", and therefore the meaning of "pragmatism," as well.  But that redefinition process is ideogical to its core.

Thus, what those inside the bubble call "pragmatic" really is pragmatic to them..  But not to anyone else in the world.  Heck, to them it was pragmatic to keep on hiring Bob Shrum to keep on losing national elections.

So, on the "keep on hiring Bob Shrum to keep on losing national elections" scale of pragmatism, Obama's doing just fine.

But in the real world?  Not so much.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I already know you can shred my argument to pieces (0.00 / 0)
But I'm wondering about certain details I asked about.  

What would the practical consequences of your suggested approach be in terms of either policy or procedure? We would already have single-payer universal health coverage? 10-20 Republican votes? I'm just trying to understand the political consequences of your prescriptions. If these details are irrelevant or not worth thinking about, then ok, I guess I'd be interested in understanding why. My understanding of pragmatism, at least with respect to politics, is based on the relationship between a field of possibilities, strategy and outcome. The current political system is designed to lead to similar results regardless of strategy. If numerous strategies lead to the same result, then the best strategy is one that will produce other beneficial effects, such as those I suggested. I think the outcome of any Obama strategy leads to a marginally similar results, simply because of structural limitations already built into the system, along with the debilitating conditions Obama inherited from Bush. There was a fairly narrow range of possibilities. Sadly, I think nearly any scenario short of major intervention would have led to us frustrated with Baucus and speculating about whether or not he'll vote for a public option.

I don't think we differ that much in opinion, we're just looking at the same problem from different perspectives. But I do think it's important to take thought experiments to their logical conclusion. Aside from studying and comparing historical examples, it's one of the few ways to test a theory of this sort.

The bottom line is that I agree about the need for changing the political system and cultural climate, but I don't measure Obama's pragmatism relative to that standard for now, though I can appreciate why someone would. My measurement take into account the field of possibilities available to him and the likely results of following particular strategies. But I'm hopeful that even within that narrow range many positive changes can come about.  


The "pragmatism" here is very clear-cut: it helps the personal financial careers of individual players.  At the same time, that sort of individual pragmatism makes it virtually impossible for the Democratic Party to function in any way even remotely like its narrative promise.  As a result, all the top politicos form a pact--in the informal way that closed social groups the world around always do--which fundamentally redefines the meaning of "success", and therefore the meaning of "pragmatism," as well.  But that redefinition process is ideogical to its core.

I agree with this entirely. You're right, the same thing happens in nearly every domain with every value, truth, good, etc. That informal process is as broad as culture, and as narrow as two people. I guess that's why it's so hard to understand where our precepts come from, given the agreements happen unconsciously in many cases.  


[ Parent ]
So MUCH Verbage! (0.00 / 0)
Let me try to make this simple: You can only roll Baucus if you (1) want to roll Baucus and (2) try to roll Baucus.

And, of course, rolling Baucus on health care starts with rolling Snowe and Collins on the stimulus.

Which starts with (a) a very clear, no-nonsense message about the basic problem-solving requirements, (b) backed up with time spent on the ground in their back yards schmoozing with everyone in sight whose good opinion is important to them.

This ain't rocket science.

Don't make it more complicated than it has to be.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
So we agree then (0.00 / 0)
All roads lead to Baucus. That was my point. I don't think there's enough difference between the outcome you envision and what is already the case to define one route as pragmatic and the other as ideological, one weak and the other strong, especially considering we still haven't seen the results.

[ Parent ]
Um. No (0.00 / 0)
Not all roads.  But the fact that he's become such a big impediment is symptomatic of how badly this has been misplayed by Obama, Inc.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Is there a scenario in which (0.00 / 0)
Baucus et al. aren't impediments? I think you're placing too much blame on Obama, although I think he could've done some things differently as well. I just can't claim to know what would have resulted otherwise. All the same obstacles would have been there: insurance money, party of no, right wing media, shitty economy, deficit, hundreds of conservative bloated democrats, etc. Those factors are determining outcomes more than Obama right now.    

A truly ideological move would have been to write the best, most progressive health care form in the world and send it to congress under threat of getting....well, getting what? It's a capitalist democracy. This is what happens.  


[ Parent ]
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