Bankers and Workers

by: Mike Lux

Sat Oct 03, 2009 at 14:00


Two new economic studies just came out that, especially taken in combination, are truly stunning and profoundly troubling. The first, by the Center for Economic and Policy Research (a DC-based think tank), reported that the federal government is essentially subsidizing the Too Big to Fail (TBTF) banks in terms of the interest rates banks must pay to borrow funds. The second, coming out of Rutgers University, tells us that- if all goes quite well- that we don't get back to our pre-recession level of employment until the last half of 2017.

These two things are each worthy of huge concern. In combination, they spell very, very big economic trouble for America.

Let's take the TBTF issue first.

Mike Lux :: Bankers and Workers
The administration certainly deserves plenty of credit for stabilizing the collapsing economic system when they came into office, but the way they did it was to resuscitate the big Wall Street banks rather than to restructure the system. In the process the TBTF banks actually got even bigger because of (sometimes forced) mergers some of their competitors going out of business. The TBTF banks are even bigger and even likelier to be bailed out in a future economic crisis.

Now it turns out that in addition to having helped bail them out in the first place, we are subsidizing them in other ways. The CEPR report makes clear the gap in the interest rate they have to pay between the TBTF banks (which are generally doing quite well) and smaller regional banks is getting bigger as a result of government policies. As the report notes:

If this gap is attributable to the TBTF policy, it implies a substantial taxpayer subsidy for the TBTF banks. In effect, because of the government safety net being extended to investors who lend money to these banks, the TBTF banks are able to borrow at a much lower cost than banks who must borrow based on their own credit worthiness. The increase in the gap of 0.49 percentage points implies a government subsidy of $34.1 billion a year to the 18 bank holding companies with more than $100 billion in assets in the first quarter of 2009.

Even as the big banks rake in massive profits, the smaller independent banks continue to struggle, with many going out of business.

Now let's take a look at the jobs report. An average of 1.3 million people are added to the American labor force every year, because of young people entering the job market, mothers re-entering the labor force, legal immigration, etc., so in order to get back to full employment, we have to produce a lot more jobs than that. And when you add to that the fact that the 2001-2010 decade will be essentially a lost decade in terms of job growth- a job-shedding recession at the beginning, massive job losses at the end, and very weak private sector employment growth in the "recovery" in the middle of the decade- we have dug ourselves into a deep, deep hole in terms of the number of new jobs we have to create in this century. The Rutgers report estimate says that if the United States started producing 2.15 milllion jobs a year, starting at  the very beginning of 2010, it would take almost eight years in a row of producing those numbers before we got back to December 2007 labor market conditions. That's August 2017. To put that in perspective, consider the following:

  • The average post-World War II economic expansion is 58 months, compared to the 80 months at 2.15 million jobs a year this report says we would need to be back to pre-2008 crash labor market conditions.

  • In the Clinton years, we had the strongest, most sustained jobs growth since the 1960s, and averaged about 2.75 million new jobs a year. That says this kind of job growth is at least possible, which is good, but on the other hand, we were just coming out of a relatively mild recession in January 1993 when Clinton took office. Obama is faced with a far deeper hole to get us out of.

  • Things in December 2007, just before this recession came in weren't exactly hunky dory. In the 2001-07 "expansion", private sector employment lost ground compared to the number of people in the workforce, by a total of 550,000 fewer jobs than new people entering. Income for workers with jobs, meanwhile, remained essentially flat.

  • Getting us back to that mediocre December 2007 pre-recession place assumes steady, consistent, strong job growth year after year until late 2017. Even optimistic economists are not predicting a lot of job growth in 2010. And this kind of steady expansion assumes no slowdown when the stimulus money runs out in 2011, when the federal budget deficit starts to be trimmed by Congressional budget hawks, or when another speculative bubble created by Wall Street might burst.

Which brings me back to our Too Big to Fail banker friends. This country needs an economic policy whose central focus, whose number one priority, whose driving mission is the creation of good jobs. Having a few big bankers making money through speculative trading does nothing to create jobs, and endangers us over and over again in the years to come.

We need to get health care reform passed, because (among other reasons) a good bill would cut costs and make our entire economy more productive. But then we need to get down to the hard work of (a) restructuring our financial system and breaking up these Too Big to Fail banks; and (b) a major new policy initiative to spur job creation in a very big way.


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Bankers and Workers | 27 comments
2017 and a foreclosure every 7 seconds. (4.00 / 8)
This is why we need meaningful health care reform, and the public option in 2013 is BS.  

With single payer, states, schools, and local governments could get rid of their health care costs and immediately become solvent.   With no local revenues, they are slashing medicaid, money to schools, mental health and other community services and safety nets.  The autos, small business and other US companies would immediately become more competive and entrepreneurs would start falling from trees.  If they had taken health care off the autos, they wouldn't have need Obama's stupid loans.  Last and not least, single payer would save lives; and families might even have money for food.  

If this isn't timid and incompetent Democrats, then it is plain ol' corrupt Democrats.  Either way, this is why Obama and the Dems are going to lose.  Nobody voted for namby pamby change; and if people had wanted Clinton in the WH, they would have voted for Hillary.   What a waste.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


Well even with the New Deal (0.00 / 0)
we didn't return to pre-Depression era employment levels until 1942.

and even then that was largely because of World War II.  


[ Parent ]
And we haven't become any smarter since the 1930s? (4.00 / 1)
That would be tragic, if true. But we know how and why FDR's program to create more jobs worked, and we know where he failed (when he listened to those who demanded more fiscal "responsibility"). So, why shouldn't it be possible to top FDR's performance?

And, btw, we're not at a Great Depression level yet. Jobless rate is lower, and the birthrate is lower, too, so the job growth necessary for mere stagnation isn't as high. I really don't see why it should take 8 years to reduce the jobless rate to 5% again. After all, this is much less than FDR accomplished.


[ Parent ]
Actually I don't think we're nearly as smart (0.00 / 0)
as we were in the 1930s...much more uneducated and apathetic.

I think it's reasonable, even if unfortunate, to believe the jobless rate won't be back to 5% in eight years. Reagan had 7%+ unemployment for almost his entire term...got reelected in a landslide with 7.5% unemployment.


[ Parent ]
unemployment isn't a statistic (0.00 / 0)
neither is foreclosure.

Medicare for all is a jobs program, and a social safety net all in one.  Reagan didn't win.  Carter lost.  After that, he was an incumbent and only running for what turned out to be his second term of a thirty year reign.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
I mean (4.00 / 9)
I feel like the elephant solution in the room is to start a massive Green New Deal. Huge. Not only is it a prescription for our economic troubles but it is also urgently necessary. But unfortunately Obama's olympic bid in Copenhagen will probably get more media time then the climate conference...

Agitate.Liberate.Create.

I agree with you completely (4.00 / 2)
What we need now is for the PO to pass, and then on to the Green New Deal. If there is some plan to move through Copenhagen adding to the justification for massive green investment, then good. Otherwise we may need to help generate the political will here in bloggovia.

I think this is inside the galaxy of priorities that Obama is strong on, and not one where he merely wants to create a political majority. Krugman and others have caled for a second stiul;us, Peolosi has been good on a second stimulus. Ending all oil subsidies, which merely buy caviar and condos, and using the money to leverage investments in solar and wind generation, could prime the pump quickly.

We need spending that makes jobs. Shovel ready green spending. Right frakking NOW.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Unfortunately (4.00 / 4)
At that point you'll see even more fragmentation than we already have on health care, especially if the administration and coastal architects (dear God why is it always a Massachusetts and Californian crafting climate and energy policy?) don't address the concerns of Rust and Brown belt Dems (my own Senator Sherrod Brown, Jay Rockefeller, and the others.)

Unfortunately, green jobs are not yet consistently up to scratch.  This DOES NOT mean they can't be- only that if we fail to put in place the right trade incentives (like tariffs), union participation, career pathway development, jobs training, and other pro-labor policies (which is a pretty tall damn order).  Weatherization, one of the most frequently heralded green jobs, has yet to lead to consistent employment.  Solar manufacturers consistently use anti-union busters straight out of the Wal-Mart playbook.  And we really need to be able to make the case that these jobs will be reaching those most wary of change: the working poor of West Virginia, the displaced workers of Ohio and Michigan, and the rest of the country that feels neglected and abused (like, y'know, Blacks and Latinos).

Figuring out how to be a progressive college graduate transplant to Ohio:  http://citizenobie.wordpress.com/


[ Parent ]
We can no longer depend on Obama (4.00 / 1)
Just forget him. Either he goes along with us or he is going to lose next time. It will be his own fault.

But this is the pattern of the dominant males in his early life. They had it all and blew it.

Grandfather, father. the one who didn't was his mother, the radical. and then he is forced to identify his strengths with the mother, the woman, the feminine.

I bet all this is what gives Michelle a constant frown when she is in DC.  He has a real psychological dilemma here.


[ Parent ]
In addition to being (4.00 / 6)
the best policy solution to the problem, an approach that emphasized social and economic security that placed a strong focus on jobs would also be a good bet politically for Democrats. It would be broadly popular, people would be willing to pay for it, it might help defuse some of the anger on the right, and it would be a good political lesson for people - that government can work for all of us.  It would help create a politics that avoiding pitting various non-elite groups against each other, or pitting fundamental values (economic growth, equality, etc.) against each other either.  

Of course, it would also pose a threat to the more conservative elements of the party, those whose positions were acquired through the neoliberal challenge to the New Deal.  Not only would their power be threatened, but a good deal of the establishment's taken for granted ideas about both the economy and politics would also be threatened.  

Just so it's clear, these are all upsides.

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel


Indeed, Dems enjoyed a couple generations of loyalty (4.00 / 2)
Why? They improved the lives of millions. It's an easy sell. Except to teabaggers, of course, but who cares?

If the Dems went all progressive and created New Deal 2.0, the hegemony struggle would be over for quite some time. There are no downsides to this that I can see.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


[ Parent ]
Who cares? Apparently Obama. (0.00 / 0)


They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
I asked the question at Economicpopulist (4.00 / 5)
what would a 2009 version of the WPA look like?  Would it be a government sponsored enterprise?  Job training part of program?  More pool of people who could serve as teachers in elevate the horrible student to teacher ratios in schools?  How to incorporate technology?  Green jobs to retrofit all public buildings?  Workers be employees of GSE?

We need policies that have a target of full employment. Neo-liberal policies of the past 20 years have failed. We need to transition to an economy based on real wage growth and not one based on asset bubbles and more debt - what better way to do that then WPA 2.0.

RebelCapitalist - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.


The problem with a new WPA (0.00 / 0)
is that the field of workers unemployed nowadays is different than those in 1933. It's not going to be easy to convince an unemployed banker, PR account executive, or office manager to move to Wisconsin and build high speed rail lines. In the 1930's, when many of the unemployed were construction or factor workers, getting them on scaffolds and in cement trucks was easy. We've evolved out of manufacturing being the main source of jobs.

That said, I'm not even sure a WPA would fly...I think the media will spin it as a waste of money. I saw someone on another liberal blog complain that stimulus money was being wasted repaving the streets in Philadelphia that didn't really need to be paved. A lot of the WPA did stuff like this. For instance, every overpass on the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut was build uniquely...that was done largely to extend the time it took to build the parkway and keep people employed. If that happened nowadays, my old bosses would be foaming at the mouth at the idea of a major news story; "Taxpayer money wasted on new Connecticut highway. Do we really need unique bridges?"


[ Parent ]
sorce of wealth (0.00 / 0)
I do not believe it is possible to evolve out of producing something and still have ANY jobs for long. Who else in history has done this? Note the simultaneous rise of China's economy and the fall of ours as our (and the world's) manufacturing jobs went there. No need for bankers, PR account executives, office managers, or most other white collar jobs without the market labor creates. These positions went to the country that needs them-where goods are produced. If nothing changes, nearly all will have to desert the cities and return to our ancestors lifestyle of substince farming, which is also producing something, to survive. Perhaps the revolution before then, but without change, something dramatic is comming. Compared to poverty, occupational change is minor, as the real producers of wealth have been doing for the last four decades.

Government by organized money is no better than government by organized mob..... FDR

[ Parent ]
You don't need to go all the way back to the 30s. (0.00 / 0)
Carter did it.  He created Public Service Employment programs under the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act.  Eligible people went to work in their local governments, schools and non-profits.  From these employers, they received up to 24K in wages, all of the benefits the employer offered to regular employees, even pensions.  Many ended up being retained by their employers when the program ended.  

Nobody needs to move to Cheboygan to live in a tent and plant trees or do a public works project.   However, they still have a version of this.  It is called the Youth Corp.  It is for low-income and problem youth.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
BTW, I didn't see a Quick Hit and thought I would mention it here (4.00 / 5)
Banks are threatening us:

Josef Ackermann, chairman of the Institute of International Finance, the global bankers' association, and head of Deutsche Bank, said governments were not paying enough attention to the aggregate impact of the reforms being proposed.

"There is a trade-off between maximising stability of banks and optimising growth of the real economy. That balance [should] not be forgotten," Mr Ackermann told the Financial Times. He warned that the entire economy would "pay a high price" if regulation went too far.

.....

Mr Ackermann complained that the banking sector had not been properly consulted before the latest regulatory proposals were announced at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh, and called for intensive talks before final decisions were made.

First, cut the crocodile tears!  There are 5 lobbyists representing the financial sector to every 1 congressperson in Washington.  And the biggest advocates of the financial oligarchy in the Administration: Mr. Summers and Mr. Geithner.

Second, what level of arrogance to think that they should be an equal "at the table".  The financial sector screwed up and have yet been held accountable for it.  

We would be better served if we would just BREAK these financial conglomerates up but that would be to radical for this Administration.

RebelCapitalist - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.


Yeah, but if we don't, it's Financial Crisis 2.0 in a few years. (4.00 / 2)
The derivatives trade is back at 2007 levels. Leverage too. No reform, no accountability, no rules. But what a bonus structure!

I wonder if the banksters can wait until 2013 for the next Wealthcare Payout.

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


[ Parent ]
Schools ensure math and reading illiterates (0.00 / 0)
So the TV can sell them whatever. Saw Moore's Capitalism last night. The foreclosures were all people who had used their home (long time family generational home) as an ATM machine. How can I feel sorry for them.

I have explained this math to elementary students and they get it in one class period.

Isn't this why slaves in the US were doomed if caught reading or children trying to learn how to read? Why the Gutenberg printing press was such a threat to the Catholic church?

The New Math taught in the mid 50's and 60's allowed a segment of the population to go into finance where they developed these derivatives. They are ingenious: Take a mortgage, turn it into confetti, then take one piece of confetti from each mortgage and put it in a box. (All this computer generated of course.) Now you have a derivative. And if 2 or 3 or even more default, they will not carry any weight to bring the whole thing down. Great! A 1% default rate won't even create a click down. Then get the AAA rating from the AIG insurance giant and you get to sell them all over the world. To pension funds, retirement funds, little old ladies, just everybody. Is anyone going to ask their stockbroker how a derivative is made? It's origin? Nope.

Now the mortgage companies (Ditech, Countrywide) begin to sell sub prime mortgages. Throw some sub primes into the pot who will probably default, but no one will be on the hook for them. Maybe a click downturn on the derivative but that's all.  Hey let's sell some more sub primes. We get upfront loan origination fees, appraisal fees, and then we can sell the sucker into a derivative machine. Sweet deal.

Just a crack into this process and any low level math person can see the opportunities. But only if you are not math illiterate. And they are still doing it only now it's refinance under Obama's plan, or a reverse mortgage and more derivatives and the game continues.

The first time around I couldn't because my house was in an agricultural zoned area and now my building is zoned commercial so I don't fit the profile. Believe me I would take the money and run. And I bet many are. It is all so sick.


[ Parent ]
Way too broad brush... (0.00 / 0)
Texas and the south generally hate "gummint schools".  Schools up north were being somewhat adequately funded until the banks stole all of the money and put the States into meltdown.  

Schools in large, poor cities have students with lots of baggage.  Poor urban schools and schools in the red neck south and Texas bring down the results for all the rest.  There are a lot of really, really good public schools in existence.  At least, there use to be.  Then one day, Bush and Obama bailed out the banks, nationalized their debt, and abandoned the people and the states.

Painting schools with such a wide brush reduces them to a right wing talking point.

Used their home as an atm?  How can you feel sorry for them?   OMG.  If they hadn't of lost their jobs to 30 years of offshoring just to keep Clinton in office, they would be just fine.  Clinton is the ass that passed NAFTA and said financial and services would take care of all of the manufacturing the sob gave away.  How do you like all of the products WS is producing instead of Main Street?   Detroit is simply the last industry they are offshoring.  If you want to talk to a buyer for GM, call China.  Ford announced it is building a huge new plant in China, which will be used to "develop the next generation of the new Ford Focus".  Along with all of the displaced workers from textiles, electronics, etc, we have a whole new region of unemployed to retrain to say, can "do you want fries with that".  And lets not forget stagnant wages for everybody but CEOs and politicians.  

If the schools had as much power and money as the lobbyists and money changers in DC, there wouldn't be an abandoned and uneducated kid anywhere.  Schools get 8K per kid if they are lucky, and prisons get almost 40K.  It isn't the schools.  We need to keep our eye on the ball because the real perp is our politicians and their screwed up priorities.  This was the change Obama was elected to put into play.  Instead of a solution, he turned out to be just more of the same problem.  While I never trusted him, many of the people who voted for him are beginning to ask, WTF!

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
Don't tell me it isn't the schools. Were you there, Charley? (0.00 / 0)
Teach in them when you are a gifted intelligent teacher for say 6 years and then come back and write about it. The administration is terrible. Not to say there aren't a few good ones.

went to a suburban Philly school that was in the top five in the nation when I was in elementary school. After that I don't know anything about ratings. All I want to say is that if I was going to one of the top five then I shudder to think about the rest of them.

My intellectual ability was almost completely wasted. I look back and can count the teachers on one hand that had a strong academic influence on me until got to college. What a waste of time.


[ Parent ]
My daughter is a teacher, 7th grade English. (0.00 / 0)
I work for a school that one of their students get a perfect score on the ACT.  My grandson is 15 and a junior with AP classes.  His teachers keep him pretty busy, and he takes online summer school classes to get the mundane requirements out of the way so he can take more stimulating electives during the school year when they are available.  In our area, summer school is heavily populated by college bound.  

Administration is bad to could be better, apparently everwhere. It reminds me of our government, lots of cronyism.   However, we have lots of good schools with lots of good teachers.  Top five in the nation?  Doesn't sound like it from your description.  Sorry you didn't find school rewarding.  I never did either, but I don't blame the school.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
So, what are you saying? (0.00 / 0)
Is it that people should have a basic level of math skills so that they can better game the system?

This seems to me a good example of ways that people attempt to fight over a limited economic pot, and become winners in a system where most are destined to lose. (See my post below).

But, yes, it is a shame that so many are not educated to have basic math skills. One very basic topic is exponential growth.

Using the simple equation:

"Doubling time = 70 years/%growth rate"

you can see, for example, that assuming a growth rate of 7%, the economy would double in 10 years. How sustainable is that? How possible is that, given that our energy resources will be growing at rate of about 0%?

 


[ Parent ]
Sorry (0.00 / 0)
This response should have been posted as a reply to abbeysbooks, not Emocrat. Somehow pushed the wrong button.

[ Parent ]
Well this was the basis for the bailout (0.00 / 0)
Last year the banks were essentially telling the governments of the world "Give us what we want or we'll completely destroy the system. People won't be able to get to their money and you'll have to spend trillions on the FDIC insured accounts and then establish some sort of banking system out of scratch and do it fast because this isn't a society that likes to be inconvienced for more than 6 hours...oh, and if you nationalize us, we'll wipe out the stock market and everybody's retirement funds and everyone between age 40 and 70 will be royally fucked and they'll hate you"


[ Parent ]
Limits to Growth (0.00 / 0)
Mike, thanks for a thoughtful and relevant article again. But I think that a fundamental assumption that you make is highly questionable. And that is; would it actually be possible to sustain high levels of growth indefinitely? You seem to be assuming that it would be.

Resources, especially energy resources, are necessary for this to be possible. The major energy resource is oil. Geologically speaking, we have reached the point where the oil output of this planet can probably not be increased beyond what is is now. And the prospect is that in about a decade, there will be a decline in production.

Yes, green jobs and public works will be important ways to keep us going as a society. But, they will not be sufficient to bring back the good old days of sustained high growth. Green projects that develop sustainable sources of energy (solar, wind, etc.) are especially crucial, but it will be decades before they will provide anywhere near the amount of energy we get today from fossil fuels.

So, what does this mean in terms of economics? I don't know, but it would be foolish for the Left to ignore these inconvenient facts. It is my fear that, as a society, inequality will grow as more people fight over a diminishing economic pot. The losers (the majority) are not going to be happy about this. Obama really has a very difficult job on his hands.

Can a fair and sustainable society be created in the absence of economic growth?


I didn't say I didn't find it rewarding (0.00 / 0)
What I said was most of it was an intellectual waste. But not a social waste.

I talked my friends in Philly into taking their kids out of the Friends' School, a top notch place. At 9 at 11 they had taken enough courses at Community College in Philly to enter Penn as juniors. They graduated and 11 and 13. One went back to France to become a doctor. He majored in clinical and research instead of choosing as is the custom. The other went to Penn graduate school in computer hardware, whatever that is, and today does all private consulting.

I think they were out of graduate schools before they were 20.

One of them told me that the other students called them geniuses. He said, it's not that we are geniuses but that they have learned to be stupid.

Another child named Zon in an intentional community in WI was making sculptures and other art to die for. He was 10 and conversed better than most adults.

So your examples aren't really all that great. I have many more. Want to read them? And I came in conflict with all the authoritarian administrators that I ever worked for because I put the students ahead of anything they wanted.

And yes I blame the schools and people like you (we go back quite a way dkmich) that keep excusing them because they themselves have no vision and are content as long as their own are competent within the system.


Bankers and Workers | 27 comments
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