If Not Policy, How Do You Decide Whom To Support?

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 16:54


Cross Posted At Dailykos

It is interesting to see the huge differences in candidate support online in straw polls such as those taken at Dailykos. One of the reasons I find the large gaps between candidates so interesting is that there does not appear to be a huge number of policy differences between the candidates who are receiving a significant amount of online support. Consider the top three finishers at Dailykos, who also happen to be the top three finishers in most early state and national polls of the Democratic field: Clinton, Edwards, and Obama.
  • Health Care: All three support government mandated private insurance, with breaks that allow individuals and / or business to purchase private insurance plans cheaper. Essentially, this is a health care tax on individuals who currently do not have health care, with most of the tax receipts going to private insurance companies.
  • Energy and Global Warming: All three support a cap and trade system, but not an accompanying carbon tax ala Al Gore. In fact, they all seem to support exactly the same cap and trade system.
  • Residual Forces: As I have repeatedly documented both here and at MyDD, Clinton and Obama support nearly identical residual force plans that would require at least 40,000 American troops to remain in Iraq. Edwards seems to support less, but he has personally muted the differences between the three of them on this issue, which I don't take as a particularly good sign.

Now, on other major issues, it seems that at lest one of these three has yet to release a major proposal of some sort. For example, I can't find anything significant about immigration on Edwards's issue page. Also, apart from pre-school I can't find anything about education on Clinton's website. Further, I can't find much of anything about trade on either Obama's or Clinton's websites. Still, I imagine that when they do all release their plans, there will not be significant differences. Further, for anything that must go through Congress, which is just about all of this, what slight differences there are likely to be erased in the legislative process.

The point is that I am not sensing much of anything in the way of policy differences that could be leading to the great differences in support the three candidates are receiving at Dailykos (39% Edwards, 21% Obama, 11% Clinton). The major policy differences seem to be coming from the so-called "second tier" candidates. Dodd, who is at 7%, is in favor of a carbon tax and voted against Levin-Reid from the left. Richardson, who has seen his support at Dailykos drop recently, has been campaigning on no residual forces for some time. Kucinich, who regularly hovers in the mid-single digits, is in favor of single payer health care, and a whole range of other left-wing policy proposals. These candidates, however, have not combined for more than 14% of the vote in the Dailykos straw poll since May, and have never combined for more than 18% of the vote in the straw poll.

Given the general lack of difference between the top three, I can only conclude that something other than policy proposals are the driving force behind the candidate preferences of the majority of people who participate in Dailykos straw polls. Now, I know it is isn't exactly a shock that not everyone chooses which candidate to support for President based on policy positions. There are other and, I think, valid reasons to support a candidate, even if these reasons are fairly nebulous. Several reasons I can think of include:

  1. Relative connection to the "elite / establishment" and "netroots / grassroots," aka, who someone will side with in the party once they become its de facto leader.
  2. Sense of a "progressive core," aka, what are the general tack will a candidate adopt in policy areas that are currently unforeseen in the campaign.
  3. "Electability," both personally and in terms of down ticket races.
  4. "Fighting the noise machine," or whether or not a candidate is likely to fight back against Republican attacks, both personally and when such attacks are lobbed at progressive more generally more generally.
  5. Partisanship, or the degree to which someone will fight for the entire party or just triangulate in order to improve his or her own position within the political and media establishment.
  6. Cultural / identity politics, or the potential offered by having the first member of a given demographic group occupy the highest office in the land.
  7. "Leadership," or the degree to which a candidate will fight to move the rest of the party and the country in a more progressive direction.

While clearly there is a minority segment voting on policy, as seen perhaps most clearly by the steady support of Kucinich in the straw poll, the majority of the decision making for the participants in the Dailykos straw poll seems to come from these are other, non-policy related areas.

As I already said above, I want to emphasize that I don't think that this sort of decision-making is necessarily wrong. Some of these issues matter to me quite a bit, although to varying degrees (1,2,4 and 5 jump out at me as important). However, I think it is fair to say that these criteria are also much more nebulous than policy differences, and that they are also more similar to the decision making process of "low information" voters than policy focused differences. Regarding the latter, I cringe when I hear about people supporting someone in a primary based on a "gut feeling," for example. Mainly, I dislike this sort of response because I don't think there is anyway to sway a voter like that, making it extremely disempowering from an activist perspective. Also, it feels dangerously close to treading into the vacuous "change versus experience" territory that has unfortunately dominated much campaign coverage so far. Maybe it is simply a bruise to my ego as a netroots activist, but I like to think we rise above all of that online more frequently than in other medias.

So, rather than making any definitive statements, I want to use this post mainly to ask a question: do you base your vote mainly on policy distinctions between candidates, or mainly on other, non-policy oriented factors such as, but not limited to, those that I listed above? I know that it is probably a mix for most people, and also probably varies from election to election, but in the poll attached to this post I am asking you to identify which side toward which you lean most heavily in 2008. If you side mainly with non-policy qualities in your 2008 decision making process, I'd also like to hear from you in the comments as to what those qualities are.

And yes, this is connected to Richardson dropping in the Dailykos straw poll, despite his stance on no residual forces. Primarily, I am interested in listening to people on this one, and understanding where they are coming from.

Update: Reading over all the comments both here and at Dailykos, I will certainly say one thing. It strikes me that people have so many different ways that they select candidates, that most arguments over candidates online are probably talking past each other. there simply isn't agreement on how to select a candidate, much less on which candidates match up to different criteria. This has been very enlightening.

Chris Bowers :: If Not Policy, How Do You Decide Whom To Support?
Poll
Which is most important in determining who you will support in the 2008 Presidential primary?
More policy proposals than non-policy qualities
More non-policy qualities than policy proposals

Results


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Leadership (4.00 / 1)
Leadership (which requires some kind of ideological orientation, if not specific policy) is the #1 thing for me. I'm not seeing it anywhere.

To be a bit more verbose, what I'm looking for is someone who can persuasively articulate a progressive outlook on things, and is willing to get in front of public opinion on the issues that matter, someone who has the personal intelligence and charisma to set the agenda.

Beyond that it doesn't really matter. DK can be right on paper all decade long; he's not advancing his ideas successfully.

Me | My Work | Future Majority


Even if you are not seeing it (0.00 / 0)
Is there someone you are seeing it more from?

[ Parent ]
Glimmers here and there (0.00 / 0)
There are moments when most of the frontrunners have shown a glimmer of what I'd be looking for, but nobody has actually done it consistently or coherently enough to really get me interested in their campaign.

For instance, Richardson's shown some real leadership on residual forces, and I've also seen it from him on energy policy. But it's inconsistent, and there's a seeming disconnect between these stances and the rest of his ultra-bland platform. Presentation-wise he comes off like a mildly talented professor giving a lecture.

There's Obama, who sounds most like a leader, but doesn't have the substantive backup or content to really make that count for much of anything. Biden is the 3rd-string redneck-wannabe understudy to this method.

Hillary shows it a bit when she talks health care, depending on the audience. She can be kind of Thatcher-esque, which works for her because it feels very real -- here's a woman who can Get Shit Done -- but for the most part she seems too tired to really be a leader.

JRE sort of splits the difference, but seems to be too soft,  like a great supporter of great causes, but not really someone who can push the ball forward. Primarily I see this is a combination of his preternaturally sunny attitude and his seeming unwillingness to believe that any of the great causes he speaks for actually have enemies (e.g. people who want to maintain massive inequity).

I've seen Chris Dodd say some really smart things in ways that felt like it might start to add up to something, but he doesn't seem to be able to string these together into anything that builds momentum.

DK is too bitter and condescending. Gravel was fun, but ultimately unserious.

A lot can change in the next few months, but I was really hoping that the increased pressure of the Fall season would bring something about. So far it hasn't. Same risk-averse grind.

Me | My Work | Future Majority


[ Parent ]
You forgot a major, major point: (4.00 / 3)
History
What has the candidate supported/opposed or voted for/against in the past?  What statements has the candidate made in the past, and how has he/she changed since then?

I know that, at least for me, this is one of the biggest deciding factors, and I know there are many more out there who similarly place a great amount of importance on this.

John McCain <3 lobbyists


I did forget it (0.00 / 0)
And that is a very good point, and a reasonable basis for making a decision. But I didn't mean to exclude it. I tried to say "these and other reasons," or something to that effect.

[ Parent ]
Leadership & Ideas (0.00 / 0)
Chris,

What do you make of the inverse movements of Dodd and Richardson? Dodd has gotten a lot of coverage at DKos of late for his issue leadership on Iraq, restoring the Constitution, and a number of other news-based subjects. He and Richardson effectively flip-flopped in the poll.

Matt BH


Not sure (0.00 / 0)
And one of the reasons I made this post is to try and figure out why both of them are still getting crushed by the other three. I am really not sure.

I think for Dodd, Dailykos straw poll people are impressed with what he did on the recent supplemental. For Richardson, it could be that we have known about this position of his for a while. For example, he really rose quickly at Dailykos in the first couple of months after the no residual force line came out, but that was in the spring. And Markos hasn't been too happy with him lately, either.

So maybe it is a "what you you led on lately" sort of thing. At least that would be my guess, but I mainly want to listen here. 

[ Parent ]
What have you led on lately (0.00 / 0)
I think that's a good way to put it. Leadership needs to be both consistent and coherent, meaning it's more or less always going on, and doesn't pull in contradictory/diluting directions.

That's an ideal that's probably impossible to live up to, but the actual moments of leadership in this primary have been so few and far between (and on such a random scattershot range of issues) that none of the candidates have been able to build much momentum on this basis.

Mostly it's been about personality, marketing and machine-building.

Meanwhile, on the upside, the northwest passage is open!

Me | My Work | Future Majority


[ Parent ]
Trajectory??? (4.00 / 1)
I think one thing that may help Edwards is that he seems to be an insider who is moving out, as opposed to Obama being an outsider moving in, and Clinton being an insider staying put.

The fact that they are all pretty close to each other demonstrates how little difference these apparent differences in trajectory really make.  Otherwise, I would be openly supporting Edwards now, rather than just wishing I honestly could.

Nonetheless, I do think that something like this sort of perception does have an impact on who people will support.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Oh, I agree (0.00 / 0)
Your impression seems similar to the one I have: Edwards moving outside and Obama mvoing inside. However, then I notice the similarities in their policies, and it makes me wonder if it is all a rhetorical difference.

[ Parent ]
Here's the main difference (0.00 / 0)
The main difference is which candidate do you think would push harder for the employee free choice act?

Which do you think would work tirelessly for its passage and which do you think would pay lip service to it but in the end would not be too sad if it died a pathetic death in the senate?

Only one of the top three I posit would actually make it a priority. And I think that's all you need to know as far as where the differences lie.


[ Parent ]
Also (0.00 / 0)
If you really want to know where a candidate stands, look at the people they surround themselves with.

Edwards with Trippi and Bonior.

Obama with Axelrod.

Clinton with Penn.

That says a lot too. Dog whistle politics are very important at showing a candidates true stripes.


[ Parent ]
I Think It's More Than Just Rhetorical (0.00 / 0)
But also attitudinal.

However, until atttiude translates into at least some difference in policy, it all reduces to faith-based politics, with us as the ones asked to place our faith.

I'd like to believe better of Edwards.  But... well, where's the beef?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Well (4.00 / 2)
At some point you do have to trust them.

In 1999 if I was a free-market conservative and my biggest concern was getting someone into office who would lower my taxes, help out oil companies, and brutalize workers trying to join a union, there's no question I would have supporter Bush (there may been some other minor right-wing candidates who would have done that as well, but they had no chance of getting elected).

Now Bush did not propose policies that reflected this, save for the tax cut proposal, but his ideology, rhetoric, and attitude all pointed to the fact that that's what he would do.

Heck, even saying he was going to be like Reagan was a good indicator of what kinds of policies he would dive into, not his crap about "a uniter not a divider". So I would have been right to trust him. And what do you know, the attitude he portrayed turned out to be exactly correct. It's hard to fake an attitude for a long time.

Bill Clinton portrayed himself as a "New Democrat" that was leaving behind all the old New Deal stuff (although he still had some populist appeals, but they were very very soft), and that's what he ended up being.

Edwards has found his voice. If you want to see that voice, then watch his speech at the SEIU forum if you haven't seen it yet. Whereas Hillary always comes off as someone who's worked really hard on getting the pitch, tone, and intonation of a political speech just right for the particular audience she's addressing, the emotion in Edwards's speech is raw and genuine. He actually believes in this stuff!

And frankly, no other serious candidate comes even remotely close to espousing a vision that mirrors what you've talked about in your posts this past weekend.

We're not going to get everything in a candidate, we're not going to get every policy proposal right off the bat from a candidate. Even FDR promised to balance the budget when he first ran in 1932, something anathema to militant New Dealers. But his attitude was in the right place, and from his words and actions and emotion, there was no doubt who's side he was on.

It's the same with Edwards. This is our once in a generation moment to get a true progressive into office. I hope we don't pass it up.


[ Parent ]
Trajectory v. History (0.00 / 0)
Paul, that is an interesting point.  I hadn't thought of it that way indeed I often see it the other way.  What did Edwards do when he had power to do anything, as opposed to now when he has little to lose.  I see power as inherently making you more conservative because you want to keep that power.

Edwards had the power to vote in the Senate, but didn't use it well (and on a million other issues).  By that argument perhaps Obama would have voted to authorize the war if he was in the Senate instead of Illinois.  To me Edwards's trajectory seems more like an act of someone who has been running for president full time for five years rather than a genuine attitude towards governing.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama


[ Parent ]
But (4.00 / 2)
If that were the case why would he be working so hard to piss off the DC establishment?

Just watch the SEIU speech. Then tell me it's all an act.


[ Parent ]
Actually.... (0.00 / 0)
It was his answers at the AFL/CIO debate that cemented for me that he isn't really making sense for me.  When he talked about all the picket lines he's walked in the last four, then when asked if he walked any picket lines before quitting his job in the US Senate, he didn't even answer.  He lacks any consistency to my mind.

I think he is risking pissing off the establishment because he wants the nomination and is willing to take risks to be noticed, and get into the news.  He didn't plan on running against another Charismatic Outsider.

I would love to see him promise to run for Senate in NC if he loses Iowa.  We could use him in the Senate especially if he is genuine, and for me at least it would improve my image of him if I don't think he is just planning another 4-8 years of running for president if he doesn't make it this time.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama


[ Parent ]
It depends. (4.00 / 1)
This is one of those poll questions that I just can't answer. It will always be a mix for me. If there are big differences on important issues, such as in the Lieberman-Lamont race, and it will make no difference as to who wins the general election, it's relatively easy to decide, and I mostly decide on the basis of issues. But if the issue differences are modest, all those other factors loom larger. And if I know the candidates personally, I have to weigh how I feel about them and my history with them, too.

In this Presidential race, it's mostly other factors. The residual troops issue is a relatively important distinction for me, but I am not and will never be a single-issue voter. (Been in too many issue fights over too many years in progressive politics to do that.) And on the vast majority of issues I care about, the differences between these candidates are slim or none.


Straw poll meaning? (0.00 / 0)
Another point about the latest poll, it was only open for a couple of hours in the morning Pacific Time.  I didn't see it until it was closed.  This probably hurt Richardson the most as his supporters in the West weren't online at the time.

Other factors to consider are that some Obama supporters have stopped visiting DailyKos because of Kos' criticisms of Obama.  The same is probably true for Richardson supporters.  Meanwhile, Kos and other front page bloggers have been praising Dodd over the past month. 

In answer to your question both policy positions, character and work ethic are important considerations to me in deciding whom to suppport.


non policy (surprise) (0.00 / 0)
Policy differences always get 90% blurred on their way through the sausage grinder, without a powerful ability on the part of the executive to differentiate between BS conventional wisdom, and a much preferred alternative that the Beltway cannot, or refuses to see.

However, that ability, which is basically a mishmash of personal combativeness, independence, credibility, courage, and, yes, electability (nothing melts Beltway resistance like fear of electoral consequences), is all utterly independent of policy.

Richardson and Obama both got pummeled in the latest straw poll when Kos pre-empted their customary freeping. I don't think it was tied necessarily to any current event; Richardson always seemed to have nonexistent organic support on DKos because of memes like "pro-growth Democrat," not to mention his many "bloopers"..

I think it just means that Richardson's campaign did a lot of freeping beforehand to inflate its support the most.


Record. (4.00 / 2)
I make a hard cut based on record (political and to a lesser extent non-political) - I think it's a much better predictor of what candidates will do in office than what they say they'll do. If I don't feel a candidate's record passes muster, then there is nothing that candidate can say or do to get my vote in a primary. In a general election, I will vote against Republicans even if I have to hold my nose to do so.

To me, policy proposals are just election year promises - easy to make, easy to break. Politicians are under a lot of pressure to tell people what they want to hear when running for office, and so they lie, and (I think) convince themselves they're telling the truth, or that they'll be able to implement things they won't be able to implement. All of them.

Now, different people will have different aspects of record that are the most relevant - that part is admittedly idiosyncratic. Being anti-abortion is an absolute deal breaker for me, and I make no apologies for that. Voting yes on the AUMF is not (quite) a deal breaker, but co-sponsoring it is for me (I know many Edwards supporters feel differently about that one, and I respect their views, but for myself, I just can't get past it), at least for the Presidency, at least until the war is over. Record is how I try to judge number 2, so I guess they're interwoven for me.

After record, I guess I would have to go with what you are calling 'identity politics' and I would call 'opening power and resources to everyone in our country' or 'social justice'. This is actually pretty inseparable from 7 for me, since one of the things I believe constitutes going in a more progressive direction is sharing power and resources beyond white men. Obviously, there are many, many other factors that I take into account in judging 7 as well, but 6 is certainly a part of it.

Then, after those, 4. I'd be surprised if it took more than those to sort out the candidates in a given race.



I agree (4.00 / 1)
This is pretty much what I mean by my comment about "History" above, but you stated it nicer :)

John McCain <3 lobbyists

[ Parent ]
Thanks! I liked yours too - very to the point. :) n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
I agree (0.00 / 0)
Record is most important to me. Next is Policy. Third is Leadership - the ability to articulate your vision and see it through to reality.

Leadership is hard to calculate because there are different styles of leadership, so it goes back to Record - what have you accomplished in the past through your leadership. 


[ Parent ]
General Tack (0.00 / 0)
For me, Chris' reason #2 is how I am selecting my candidate. While what each candidate is saying now on the issues are important, I do not expect that the major proposals of each candidate to emerge in the same form once Congress gets involved, especially on heath care and global warming. So, sure issues are important, but not as important as the core values of each candidate.

Likely, the most important thing the next President does is not related to what the candidates are saying now, but their reactions in an unpredictable world and economy. What happens, for example, if there are increased shocks to the world oil market, or to the world economy (including the U.S.'). How would the President react to these events? What would happen to their proposal for universal health care? Did the nation have an idea of how W. would respond to a major act of terrorism - or that he would expand the size of the federal bureaucracy and completely fail to show any sign of fiscal discipline?

Thus, what is important is not the specifics of the policy proposals of each candidate. And I would not hope that any candidate makes the mistake of locking themselves in a box because of their campaign promises. That is why "gut feeling" of a candidate is an appropriate (but frustrating) guide to selecting a candidate.


Do you have any methods (0.00 / 0)
For determining how candidates will react in such situations?

[ Parent ]
Not really... (0.00 / 0)
I guess my methods of selecting a candidate are intelligence plus history. But, the further I dig into my reasoning, the more mushy it gets.

[ Parent ]
Electability and building the movement. (0.00 / 0)
Because all of the major candidates make me happy on all of the issues I care deeply about and those I think are important to the country. I can't stand single-issue voters whether on the war or my LGBT friends who can't support Richardson because they think Richardson thinks homosexuality is a choice (he doesn't).

Electability is most important to me, being a political person more than a policy junkie and wanting so badly to see change after 8 years of hell. I care about x number of troops in Iraq or carbon tax vs cap-and-trade, but I care more about whether we end up with a solid D or another Republican, because I think all the Ds will do well in terms of issues, including triangulating Clinton.

Whether they throw their friends under the bus (cough MoveOn ad) and work to develop, fundraise for, and build up in other ways the progressive movement is important, otherwise we're left with no institutions to fight whatever the conservatives throw at the next Democratic president's and Congress' agenda. If we had what we have today in terms of movement infrastructure, we would have at least taken 5 steps forward on health care in 1993-94.


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credibility is big for me (4.00 / 1)
I simply don't believe that Hillary will do what it takes to get these good policy ideas enacted. Mostly this is based on my memory of Bill Clinton's presidency, when he did very little for the environment and not nearly enough on many other progressive issues. I don't care for a Rubinomics repeat, and that is exactly what I think I will get with Hillary.

If you watched the AARP debate, how many times did you hear her talk about fiscal responsibility? Obviously that is important, but I prefer Edwards, who says flat-out that balancing the budget will not trump certain other pressing domestic policy needs.

I would expect Hillary to announce with great regret after the election that the fiscal situation is too dire to enact any big new domestic program like the health care plan she's now promising.

Obama seems to have poor instincts. Too cautious. I base that not just on how he's been running his campaign, but on several votes he has taken in the Senate (for Bush's energy bill in 2005, for every Iraq War supplemental funding bill except for the last one). Also, I would worry about Obama pursuing Rubinomics.

Richardson lacks credibility with me. He is going to balance the budget and give us universal health care without raising any taxes? He has a record of being very pro-corporate, pro-Wall Street on a range of economic issues as well.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.


Trust issues (0.00 / 0)
With you on the Clinton hangover effect. I think those of us who were politically conscious progressives during the Clinton presidency developed a massive distrust for these people as we watched health care go down the tubes and a vicious, punitive "welfare reform" become the law. Hillary is genuinely impressive, but I do not trust.

Can it happen here?

[ Parent ]
I agree (0.00 / 0)
Hillary has no credibility with me when she talks about Iraq or her defense of the middle class given her prior votes on trade.

I am not happy with this field.  I would very much like to see someone in this race who did not come from Washington.  Historically those candidates are best able to make the outsider case.  Right now none ot them can make that case effectively. 


[ Parent ]
More complicated than that. (0.00 / 0)
For me, policy comes into not as a promise, but as a rough guide to how the candidate thinks and what she/he values. Things will change by the time inauguration day rolls around and I think it's pointless to try and hold the elected to the letter of their plans. So maybe it's a "gut feeling" I go by in the sense that their policies tell me something about their habits of mind.

I'm probably most influenced by rhetoric, which indicates where the candidate sees his/her constituency, and by the record, which sets up a few absolutes as well as other bad moves that I can persuade myself that the candidate truly regrets and has learned from.

So I guess it's a kind of complicated feedback loop of the kind that can only be resolved by a "gut feeling" based on experience and input. Sort of like how a good cook or good doctor operates. I can't agree that such a process is less influenceable than an "issue checklist" approach. I suspect, in fact, that a process like this pretty much determines everybody's vote, the difference between a Limbaugh zomb and a total policy wonk being the quality of the input.


Policy expectation. (0.00 / 0)
I base my vote not on the policies they currently advocate, but on the policies I expect them to follow. 

In most of the important announced policy positions, Edwards has led the way, and the others have followed.  This is what you expect of front-runners: as in sailing, once you're in the lead, just tack when the other guy tacks and you'll be okay.  But I don't believe it is a true indication of their actual policy desires.  I think Clinton is advocating policies to the left of her true inclinations, and Obama is advocating policies only when he is forced to.  We learned in 2000 that there is a huge difference between announced policy plans and the policies that a president actually decides to spend his political capital on.  From what I've seen, Edwards truly believes the progressive positions he advocates; Clinton is much more centrist than she pretends; and who the hell knows what specific policies Obama really desires. 


I agree with you (4.00 / 1)
but some of the Clinton supporters will swear up and down that she "has" to act like a centrist now to get elected, and will show her true progressive colors after the election.

I think they are delusional.

Here is where Chris is right--many arguments about the candidates are just people talking past each other. I trust Edwards to govern like a progressive, but some others don't and never will.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.


[ Parent ]
Cultural issues (0.00 / 0)
All of it is really just about determining the core of a person.  The promises they make during election year give a hint of that, but not much more.  Complaints and criticisms by the candidates probably have a bigger role to play than those promises.

Certainly not on as unstable issue as Iraq in my opinion.  Any promises made on that could easily blow away with the winds of change.


Gut feeling (just kidding) (0.00 / 0)
  It's a mix of things, and perhaps not 100% rational...

  I'm a soft Edwards supporter. He's made the inclusion of poor and working-class Americans a centerpiece of his campaign message, and I'm impressed by that -- mainly for the reason that non-elites are THE traditional Democratic constituency, and the trend within the party, for the last twenty years or so, has been to abandon that constituency -- and let the Republicans scoop them up. It's been a disastrous strategy for the Democrats, and I'm happy to see Edwards understand that and try to reverse it. Edwards is the best-equipped candidate we have to speak to the white working class that has drifted away from the Dems, especially in the South.

  I'm aware that Iraq-wise he's pretty much indistinguishable from Hillary and Barack. But I do sense a difference in his rhetorical approach to Iraq, in that he unequivocally has renounced his earlier support for the war, quite unlike Hillary. To me this suggests he'll be rational about these things in the future -- an issue Obama and Clinton give me no reassurance on. Edwards doesn't strike me as someone who's going to act "tough" for its own sake.

  The insider/outsider thing matters to me too. Among the top three, Edwards is clearly the least DC-connected, and he DID distinguish himself by calling out the toxic lobbyist culture that permeates the District.

  I like Dodd a lot, too; he's Constitutionally sound and seems to also get it regarding Republican power grabs. He's a bit insidery for me, but I'd definitely consider supporting him.

  Richardson's the best on Iraq, and that matters, but I do wonder if he's really ready for prime time -- his stumbles are quite embarrassing. And he's the most socially regressive candidate we have.

  I'm for Edwards, but I'm persuadable regarding Dodd or maybe Richardson. Obama -- maybe. His campaign is, to me, one of intra-Democratic triangulation, and that's not a movie I enjoy seeing.

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


Criteria for aspiring presidents (0.00 / 0)
I thought about this a lot last January and decided that my most important criteria would be whether I thought a Presidential aspirant would have the courage NOT to need to nuke somebody when the US is hit with a major terror attack. None of them have or probably will convince me on this criteria, though Richardson and Kucinich are possibles.

Of the big three, none of whom meet my basic criteria, I like that if, by some miracle, Edwards got the brass ring, he'd owe a lot to labor. That would be healthy.

Can it happen here?


Policy (0.00 / 0)
Derived not from self-serving "positions" on websites, but track record. Clinton's website won't tell you she's a PoliceStater, but her history will.



This is a Test of the Emergency Free Speech System. This is only a Test. In an actual Free Speech Emergency, I'll be locked up.


Policy (0.00 / 0)
backed up by leadership qualities. Unfortunately, the only candidate that fulfills this for me right now is Gravel.

Banned for posting five straight diaries.

policy first (0.00 / 0)
Then the ability to communicate the policy and persuade the public.

Policy, ability to implement policy, then electablility (0.00 / 0)
I look at policy first but then follow it with their ability to get the policy implemented.  Too many folks talk a good line but lack the political skill to get their ideas into law.  I want to see a track record of them backing similar policies and getting them enacted into law with few compromises.  Finally, I look for someone who can run a good campaign.  I want to know that they can successfully compete against Republicans and their well oiled machine.

John McCain wants to put SS in hedge funds.

That is the same (0.00 / 0)
order that I use.


[ Parent ]
Leadership, Unity, and Judgement (0.00 / 0)
Sadly we know that most of the electorate will be moved by detailed policy, nor will the candidate be able to enact specific policy proposals unless they are genuinely creative or the have a pliant congress.  We have to vote based on our predictions of how they will behave.

For me that means we need someone who shows compassion and judgement, who speaks proudly of things that I approve of, and has the ability to move on them.  I want a leader with charisma to inspire me and my fellow citizens and vision of unity to at least attempt to reunite our country after years of Republicans dividing us.

That leads me to support Obama.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama


Factual error (4.00 / 3)
I believe there's a factual error in your statement about the health care plans of the "Big Three". You claim that "All three support government mandated private insurance".

But Obama's plan doesn't have a mandate at all, and Edwards and Clinton do not mandate that one has to buy private insurance, but rather insurance, whether it's purchased from the government or a private insurance company.

Join us at the Missouri community blog Show Me Progress!


This is a very important point ... (4.00 / 2)
... I believe that if Clinton has allowed Edwards plan to be the only one that was both Universal and included a choice between a public plan and private plans, she'd be unable to blur that distinction. So one way or another, she had to include that feature.

There is also the point of timing ... since once in the White House, a President will no longer have to respond to a rival candidate to blur the distinction.

On the Health Care, Edwards put out his plan first, then a little while later, Obama put out a less ambitious plan, then still later, Hillary put out Edwards plan, with some slight variations.

On Global Warming / Energy Independence, Edwards was the first to support meeting the IPCC targets, when Clinton and Obama were supporting legislation falling short of the targets, and only in May did Clinton and Obama straddle the gap by also supporting legislation that meet the IPCC targets.

And both Clinton and Obama seem to favor introducing coal technology possibly compatible with CO2 sequestration through a subsidy, which acts as an encouragement to the construction of more coal plants, while Edwards has a mandate forbidding the construction of plants that lack the technology, which acts as a discouragement to the construction of more coal plants.


[ Parent ]
Well, OK, as long as you ask (4.00 / 1)
1a. Support for fighting the process of turning the US into another Brazil
1b. Support for fighting for Energy Independence
1c. Support for fighting against Global Warming

I can't disentangle those, and indeed, I don't think they can genuinely be disentangled. Without 1a and 1c, 1b is just burning up coal as fast as we can ... Without 1a and 1b, there is no development of a long term industrial political base for 1c ... and in the US, we don't maintain policies over decades without an industrial political base swinging clout to support it ... without 1b and 1c, the US is going to end up another Brazil anyway, even if the President was determined to fight it.

That sorts the top tier into 1. Edwards, 2. Obama, 3. Clinton. If you toss Richardson in the mix, he strikes me as stronger than Obama on 1b and 1c, but as bad or worse than Clinton on 1a, so its hard to work out where to put him.

As an aside, saying that Edwards, Obama and Clinton have the same cap-auction-and-trade system is certainly deceptive, since both Obama and Clinton have multiple systems, and Edwards only the one. Obama was a co-sponsor of Lieberman-McCain on introduction, and not of Sanders-Boxer introduced the following day. Clinton signed onto Lieberman-McCain later in January.

Obama and Clinton then signed on as co-sponsors of Sanders-Boxer in early May, in time to be able to say they "support" a cap and trade system tracking the IPCC targets for reducing CO2 emissions for things like the LCV issues survey.

After those three comes the Occupation of Iraq. In terms of the present missions of forces, Richardson is only for a garrison force in Emerald City, Edwards for that plus, if there are Americans involved in official humanitarian/reconstruction work, US forces to defend them. Obama is for that plus the "reward Al-Qaeda by fighting them" force, plus maybe US combat forces renamed as trainers and always fighting alongside Iraqi forces, and Clinton is for all that and no maybe on the trainers.

So in the second priority, its Richardson, followed by Edwards, then substantially worse is Obama, and then still worse is Clinton.

And the rest are just bonus points, and unlikely to modify the ranking that comes out of that.

It leaves Edwards first, Obama and Richardson in the middle, and Clinton last. I basically break the tie in the middle by looking at how little impressed I have been by Richardson when I have seen him.


Yeah (0.00 / 0)
Leadership, among other things, is definitely a big deal. If it all it took to get change was saying that it'd be nice if it happened, then sure, the candidates start to look a lot more alike (not by accident, by the way - if Clinton isn't pursuing a deliberate blurring policy ala post-primary Joe Lieberman, I'll eat my hat). But the thing is, just saying it isn't enough. You have to fight for it. And Edwards is the only one in this campaign talking and acting like a fighter. Obama's all about compromise and can't-we-just-get-along - not promising. Hillary's trying to talk in the debates and in her ads and in similar venues like a badass DC insider who can Get Shit Done (as some commenter above put it) - problem is, DC's part of the problem, not the solution. Combine that with what I mentioned above I believe to be a deliberate blurring campaign ala Holy "no one wants to end this war more than me" Joe, I think Hillary presents the possibility of being actively pernicious from the standpoint of the progressive movement.

So, yeah. To see a lot of the above points presented more convincingly (with tables and statistics and everything!), go to this link.


Hierarchy of criteria (0.00 / 0)
It seems that the more factors one considers in choosing a candidate, the more complicated the process, the more nebulous the hierarchy of criteria becomes.  If you're deciding on the basis of 4 main criteria, it's pretty easy to rank them; by the time you get up around 28 or so, it gets easy to lose track of the rankings.  Some of these criteria, if they are the only or even the primary criterion, can be kind of dangerous. 

If we all agree that our process is so complex and "nuanced" that it amounts to a "gut feeling", the danger is that some event during the campaign will become iconic for us, and that the symbolism may be of something which may SEEM extremely important at the time, but actually not be.

Somebody who is otherwise rational recently told me that he voted for Bush the first time because suddenly  Al Gore, a person prior to that almost always seen in a three piece suit, started making commercials in which he was seen in blue jeans.  This convinced the otherwise rational person that Al Gore was a phony and decided his vote. Of course, that's carrying the gut instinct approach to extremes.

What my friend was really reacting to was the perception that the Democratic candidate no longer represented the interests of the working class, and was deliberately masquerading as somebody who did.  Unfortunately, the epiphany was more like a clang association than a real insight.

Nonetheless, politics has become so repulsive for most people that they tend to ignore them until just before an election, and then choose a candidate based more or less on a hunch.  This is leading us to destruction.  I keep hoping that the closer we get to destruction, the more incentive people will have to pay attention.

Traditionally, one of the most important criteria for candidates is our sense of who they are.  This is why they always want to tell us their story.  I guess it's what you subsume under experience.

I personally think charisma is over-rated.  It seems to me that the presence of personal charisma in someone's personality is more likely to be associated with personality difficulties than with any aptitude for problem-solving.  It seems that a lot of people largely agree with DK's ideology, but don't support him because he's short, kind of wizened, and funny-looking.  So they're saying, "This isn't a beauty contest, but hey, there are limits!"  The stupidest person I know voted for Bush twice because she thinks he's so good looking.  Dennis doesn't look like an alpha male, so 88% of Democrats won't consider him.

I also have to point out that electability is a rather peculiar bugaboo.  Last time around, electability was what stampeded everyone to Kerry.  I suppose I needn't point out that that did not work out too well.  The point is, few of us can accurately predict political outcomes.  We acknowledge that we don't know who's going to win.  Yet we base part of our choice on who we think is going to win.  I wish that everyone would vote in the primaries as though there hadn't been any earlier primaries.  In other words, vote for who you really want instead of who's going to win.
If you had voted for Ralph Nader in the primary, it wouldn't have hurt anything, would it?

I guess the main category for my gut feeling is leadership.
Although I doubt he could prove a lot of the things he says, it seems to me that BruceMcF's characterization of the candidates, above, is very, very accurate.  Based on similar perceptions, it seems to me that Edwards has been setting the agenda for the campaign thus far.  His identity resonates with me.  We're talking about a guy who went to law school on the plan of taking on the corporations and insurance companies as a career, and then did it very successfully.  Someone said that Edwards was not a leader in the Senate.  In only one term, it would have been remarkable if he had been.  At any rate, consensus leadership is something every new president receives as a short-term gift.

Partisanship is very close to my heart, but I almost never get to vote on it.  People keep telling me Hillary is a bitch, and I actually see that as a point in her favor.  I'd like to see whoever becomes President go up to Washington and kick neocon butt all over town.  Hillary certainly has the most motive to do that.  Think about it.  You think she's going to make nice with her mortal enemies if she once achieves power?  Nobody could possibly better appreciate how important it is to stay on top. 

Obama is playing it by ear.  You can play by ear if you're a master of the instrument.  Obama isn't. 


Criteria hysteria (0.00 / 0)
The primary issue of concern for me is health care. When John Edwards appeared on Meet the Press and boldly announced his fully hatched plan I was an instant supporter. Later after hearing the speeches of Clinton, I supported her. Beyond that issue I use the criteria of credibility, political philosophy, and trustworthiness to choose my candidate. The largest negative issues I've had with Clinton over the years was her stances on Elian Gonzales and censorship of video games. This calls into question her trustworthiness as a politician and her political judgment in matter of civil liberties however, those issues seem like ancient history. I think the most credible person who has the smarts and political  skills to implement health care is Clinton. She also isn't promising things she won't be able to deliver such as Edwards' Great Society like program for the poor. I want someone who is talented and will give it to me straight. I want someone who will fight for something that they will accomplish rather than placate me.

I you want health care, work hard. If you want universal health care, vote for liberals.

Connection/movement (0.00 / 0)
I think I'm quoting from myself here, but:

I just. want. someone. who. can tell. the story.

Keep in mind how people's perceptions are formed - even, I would vigorously argue, those of us who claim to be 110% about policy. Even if we SAY it's policy that we decide on, it's much softer and more complicated than that.

Take Biden as an example. He first came onto my radar with his vigorous support for the RAVE act, some drug war thing that I don't remember the details of now but I'm sure was racist and dreadful. My second impression of him was from the bankruptcy bill. So he may not be perceptually completely doomed, but pretty close. Every time I see him talk he's starting down a couple field goals on getting me to listen to what he has to say.

Another example of what not to do: Richardson. Anyone else remember this moment from one of the debates? Now every time I see the guy talk I think "needles!" It's become a joke with my wife and I even. We like him anyway, but it's just so blindingly obvious that dog just ain't gonna hunt.

So what I really want is that ability to connect, that ability to command the mystery that's at the center of  democracy (and I think maybe life, too). That's what makes a movement leader. That's what brings people to you.

What's interesting too is that the mystery is collaborative: Reagan was able to communicate as effectively as he did because of the work of thousands upon thousands of activists. The movement's objective is to create space for the magic to happen.

I'm looking for someone who when he or she gets that power, knows how to use it. From this perspective all of the candidates are disappointing to varying degrees.

I do like the direction we're all going though.


I see a major policy shift with Edwards (0.00 / 0)
1)  while candidates may or may not have substantially different policy plans for any given issue, you can tell based on how hard a candidate campaigns on their "signature" issue or how often they talk about an issue, or how passionatatley, whether it's going to be their priority.  I see Edwards truly leading the debate on health care. 

2)  There's also the fact that not every policy position needs to be spelled out in a whitepage and posted to the website to be their policy.  Edwards has made it clear that he is willing to raise taxes in order to accomplish certain goals (dramatically improving Education, providing international aid, fighting global warming, universal education) and that he's not going to invite lobbyists to the table. 

In my book, that counts as a major policy difference from, oh, say Clinton.  Who wants to balance the budget quickly and only raise taxes marginal amounts on only the very richest. 

So, I guess, I just disagree that there are not major policy differences within our candidate field. 


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