Wall Street Bailout Thwarting Democratic Realignment

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Oct 05, 2009 at 15:00


The $810 billion Wall Street Bailout is a loadstone hanging around the neck of the Democratic Party. It thwarting what should have been a realigning moment in American electoral politics. Upon regaining control over the federal government following the 2008 elections, Democrats should have been able to cement their image as, in the words of Al Gore, "the people versus the powerful." Instead, we have become complicit in perpetuating a federal government that is more responsive to the wishes of powerful moneyed interests at the expense of the vast majority of Americans. And so, our chances at realignment are slipping away.

More in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: Wall Street Bailout Thwarting Democratic Realignment
Ryan Lizza's inside look at the Obama administration's response to the economic crisis today in the New Yorker is worth a read. While economic analysis at the time--including the analysis of Christina Romer, the chair of the White House council of economic advisors--believed that $1.2 trillion in stimulus was needed, the incoming Obama administration thought that even asking for a stimulus of that size was not politically feasible. And so, as Paul Krugman repeatedly argued at the time, we ended up with about half of the stimulus we needed.

Maybe it wasn't possible to pass a $1.2 trillion stimulus in early 2009. However, this was due as much to Congress passing a $700 billion Wall Street bailout in October 2008 as it was to anything else. From October 2008 through February 2009, Congress did actually pass more than $1.2 trillion in economic stimulus. The problem was that, in the form of the Wall Street bailout, most of that money went to the same people financial institutions who caused the economic meltdown.

Perhaps the distinction between the stimulus and the bailout is clear in the minds of most economists and policy wonks, but it is not clear to many Americans. As such, passing the Wall Street bailout imposed a huge opportunity cost on the amount of money the Obama administration could realistically ask for in the February stimulus / jobs package. If they had not asked for $700 billion to hand over to Wall Street, they might very well have been able to ask for, and pass, the $1.2 trillion needed in the stimulus package.

Imagine if Democrats had passed $1.3 trillion in stimulus rather than $700 billion in bailouts and $600 billion in stimulus:

  • It would have worked better, thus improving economic conditions faster and more effectively.

    (Even if you think that the bailout was necessary, it was not necessary for the Treasury Department, via Congress, to directly participate. The Federal Reserve Bank has conducted a mach larger bailout of Wall Street than the one approved by Congress and conducted by the Treasury Department. If a large scale bailout of financial institutions was actually necessary, then the Fed's seemingly unlimited bailout ability could simply have been increased to cover for the $700 billion Congress passed on. TARP was a small portion of the overall federal lending program to financial institutions, and as such a far cry from the lynchpin that saved us from disaster. The Wall Street bailout did not have to be done with any taxpayer money.)

  • The improved economic conditions would have made Democrats look better and more effective at governance. Further, the liberal economic philosophies under-girding the stimulus would now appear more sound to the electorate as a whole.

  • The improved economic conditions would have resulted in a smaller decline in immigration, a decline which is doing real damage to the long-term demographic trends that made a Democratic realignment possible.

  • Instead of joining with Republicans in handing over hundreds of billions to the same rich assholes who damaging the lives of most Americans, Democrats would instead have been standing up entirely for the millions of Americans who were hurt by those assholes.
Because of their original complicity, and current ownership, of the Wall Street bailout, Democrats now:
  • Have weaker economic conditions than were necessary;
  • Have instilled little confidence in the philosophies underlying their policies;
  • Are facing less favorable demographic trends;
  • Have muddled their image as the party standing up for average Americans against powerful, moneyed interests.
The political implications of this are that we are heading for a close election rather than a realignment. This is because, as Digby points out in a review of Michael Moore's new film, we handed over the populist, anti-corporate messaging to the teabaggers:

Having said all that, there is great, HUGE value in this movie as an emotional, populist polemic for the left, something I've been screaming about since the beginning of the financial crisis. It's extremely disheartening to see the administration and so many Democrats in congress completely ignore the political and policy ramifications of failing to engage in fundamental financial reform and fiery populist rhetoric at a time like this. This teabagger movement is happening in a vacuum created by a lack of interest in this topic by liberals who are so enamored of being members of the new "creative class" and the like that they aren't paying attention to the cynicism and anger that's reaching critical mass among average working stiffs out there. It's easy to dismiss it, but very, very foolish. The issues Moore raises in this film will be answered on the right with authoritarianism, militarism, immigrant bashing and violence. It's a recipe for disaster unless the left takes this on in direct, political terms.

It is incredibly frustrating that Democrats have both not implemented the policies needed to turn the economy around for most Americans, while simultaneously handing over the mantle of economic populism to right-wing corporate astroturf groups (some of whom are funded by the very bailouts they are protesting). I fear a generational policy and political opportunity has been wasted.

Not that we should have expected anything different given the Democrats we elected. Nothing in their actions or campaign rhetoric leading up to the 2008 elections would have given on the impression that we were electing populist crusaders willing to take on excessive corporate influence in government. Barack Obama central campaign plank was non-ideological bipartisanship, for crying out loud. Now, he is trapped by that image, as well as by the bailout. It is too bad, because if there was ever a good time for populist, progressive, anti-corporate leadership, its right now.


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Jobs bill... (4.00 / 11)
It seems clear that if another stimulus is to pass, it needs to be given a title that is completely different from "stimulus", even if it is essentially the same thing.  I don't know why, but the Democrats just have the worst naming schemes ("public option" included).  

A new stimulus should be called the "Jobs bill".  The term "Jobs bill" should be repeated over and over again until the talking heads only refer to it as the "Jobs bill".  Let the Republicans come out against "wasteful government spending in the Jobs Bill."  How many people will hear "Jobs bill" and think that's wasteful?

It seems like a simple thing, but I think it would make a huge difference.  "Stimulus" really doesn't sound like it represents anything specific which makes it pretty easy to demagogue against, but "Jobs" is something everyone understands.  I'm hoping that someone in the administration is thinking along these lines.


Good Point (4.00 / 7)
In fact, I distinctly remember hearing an NPR segment with two Colorado Republicans (voters, not electeds, so it wasn't that bad), and one of them was sort of pissed off that they weren't passing a true, WPA-style jobs bill.

I think they really missed the boat on that one.  You can get a lot more bang-for-the-buck from a flat-out jobs bill like that than you can from anything else.  

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
You wouldn't think this is rocket science (4.00 / 2)
but it must be since Dems haven't figured it out yet.  Better yet, call it the Jobs For Liberty bill and push the message that unemployment is the real enemy of freedom.  Which in a way it sorta is... wow this Frank Luntz wordplay stuff is powerful!

[ Parent ]
Pretty obvious, huh? (4.00 / 1)
The official unemployment number still hasn't hit double digits.  (Real unemployment, of course, is much higher.)  Once it does, probably just as health care passes, perhaps the Democrats will be smart enough to take advantage of the milestone and press for a jobs bill.

Not that I'm holding my breath.


[ Parent ]
They cant pass a jobs bill (0.00 / 0)
Republicans wont support it and many Democrats wont either.  We dont have the money.  

[ Parent ]
Money (4.00 / 4)
While I agree it would be hard to pass, you are completely incorrect about having the money.  Even if you agree that deficit spending at this point is a bad idea (I don't, but the day will come) we have the money.  All that is needed is to roll back the Bush tax cuts.  Or, better yet, put in a new Millionaire tax bracket.  Your jobs plan is balanced over 10 years, easy.

[ Parent ]
Restore the Reagan-era tax brackets (4.00 / 3)

  Absurdly simple, effective framing. No Republican is going to argue against St. Ronnie.

  How did the Democrats wind up with such feeble leadership that they can't even muster up the political will to do something THAT basic?  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
Labor atrophied, and the Democrats went from being a party of labor (4.00 / 3)
to being a party of labor AND of business AND of half of the rich.  

That is the real source of the "Democrats divided" meme.  The true left base is not large enough in this country to rest a party on, so we have a party built on labor AND on business, which can barely function.

Democrats don't propose restoring the Reagan Brackets because a significant fraction of their donor base would revolt.  Until we get a party built only on unions and working people without any rich people required (they can join out of conviction, but not to defend their interests), then even the obvious cannot be done.

I don't remember the details of when Obama waffled on rolling back the Bush tax cuts vs letting them expire (after the primary, or did Hillary do it too?), but that was the tell.


[ Parent ]
This donor base that would revolt... (4.00 / 1)

  ...why are they Democrats to begin with?  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
So the Dems have been reduced to... (0.00 / 0)

...being the Abortion Party.

Lovely.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
yes...sorta (0.00 / 0)
that's how they rose from the 1980's doldrums...by winning over socially liberal fiscal conservatives in the Northeast.

and similarly, the GOP is the Christian party.  


[ Parent ]
The doldrums of the 80's? (4.00 / 2)
Democrats controlled almost everything but the White House in the 1980's.  If anything, the 1990's and our current state is the doldrums.  

[ Parent ]
Yep (4.00 / 1)

 To chase a few overprivileged pearl-clutchers who wanted to make sure their daughters wouldn't have to travel to get abortions, the Democrats coughed up their entire working-class base, leaving them ripe for Republican pickings.

Deals with the devil don't usually work out well.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
They "rose"... (0.00 / 0)

 ...by essentially making themselves meaningless.

 And we're seeing the fruits of those compromises now. The US economy is collapsing, in large part due to this so-called "fiscal conservatism" (more accurately termed deregulatory corporatism), and the Democrats have neither the interest nor the ability to fix it.

 We truly live in the best of all possible worlds.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
It was in September 2008 and he confirmed it later in his 2010 budget proposal (0.00 / 0)
I don't know what Hillary's position was.

McClatchy Newspapers - 4/28/09 Story on Obama presenting his budget proposal to Congress

The budget notably pledges to reduce the federal deficit, which the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has projected will reach a record $1.7 trillion this fiscal year and $1.4 trillion in fiscal 2010. That clearly won't be easy, however, not least because the bill also projects tax cuts of $764 billion over the next five years.

The budget envisions extending middle-class tax cuts - such as the 10 percent income-tax bracket, the child tax credit, "marriage penalty" relief and help for many who are subject to the alternative minimum tax - and continuing the 2001 and 2003 tax reductions for most people who earn less than $250,000 a year.

Cuts for higher-income taxpayers would be allowed to expire after 2010.

The budget recommends $97 billion in tax increases through "loophole closers and raisers," leaving it up to tax-writing committees to fill in the blanks.

The budget did deny Obama one major initiative: the "making work pay" tax credit of $400 for most taxpayers, which he wants to become permanent. Instead, it would be allowed to continue past next year only if its costs are offset with cuts in spending or other tax increases.

Check this out. On a Meet the Press show, 1/25/09, anchor David Gregory pressed Larry Summers, Obama top economic adviser (former Goldman Sachs guy), as to why didn't Obama extend the tax cuts. To Summers credit he represented the Democratic administration admirably.

Well, let me just press you on this point. You say we can't afford to let those Bush tax cuts expire later, but we can afford to, to spend up to $700 billion for the tax cut that you like?

DR. SUMMERS: We can--we--it's a good question. We certainly can afford to do what is necessary now to stimulate this economy, to put money--frankly, when you put money into the hands of middle-class families, history and experience suggest that they spend a substantial part of it, pushing the economy forward. When you put money into the hands of those with very high incomes, only a much smaller fraction of it is spent and so you derive much less benefit in terms of pushing the economy, in terms of pushing the economy forward.

Granted, Obama did not keep his campaign promise of early elimination of tax cuts for the rich, but I think the Democrats will be able to use the budget and these tax breaks for the middle to make some points with the electorate.

Without Obama's tax breaks for the middle, this is what we'd be getting (From the same Meet the Press story as Summers interview):

The Heritage Foundation has warned that if the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire, "taxes will rise dramatically for most taxpayers" with tax rates rising "substantially in each tax bracket, some by 450 basis points."

For example, top wage earners currently in the 35 percent tax bracket will see their tax rate increase to over 39 percent -- an increase of more than 10 percent in extra taxes they will have to pay.

Last year, the Bush White House claimed that allowing the tax cuts to expire would mean a family of four would have an additional tax burden of $1,900 annually. They also claimed 43 million families with children would see an increase of taxes over $2,000.



[ Parent ]
BS. The popular base for left policies is plenty big enough (4.00 / 1)
Those who run the Democratic party are simply addicted to the big money, and slaves to the media which are owned and operated by the big money.  

The meme that there "is no support" for lefty social policies, and no possibility of a popular base to support such policies is wishful thinking (or deliberate propaganda) on the part of corporate media, the right, and the servants of big money to give them cover for NOT implementing policies of full employment, peace, universal medical care and the like which most Americans assuredly DO want.  

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston


[ Parent ]
We've already exhausted that income though (0.00 / 0)
on healthcare and Obama's budget.

[ Parent ]
Money is illusory. (4.00 / 1)
The elite know that, so should you.

[ Parent ]
Boxer's Environment and Public Works Committee (0.00 / 0)
just announced the Kerry-Boxer Clean Energy Jobs and American Power Act. At last - they managed to get "jobs" in the title!

[ Parent ]
Good post (0.00 / 0)
The memory of the $700 billion given by the Bush Administration has so faded from the consciousness of the news (or is termed a bailout by 'the government' without specifying which administration). At the time of that bailout some of my friends and I immediately thought this was done to tie Obama's hands so he would not have a clear path to his own economic policy, including health care reform, because, after all, 'the government' would be spending far too much...

Remember Pelosi got behind the failout (0.00 / 0)
She pushed it very aggressively. It took two votes and the heaviest whipping I've ever seen in Congress to pass it. I think Pelosi shoving that horror through will go down as the biggest political mistake of my lifetime.

[ Parent ]
Hardly (0.00 / 0)
If the bailout had not been passed, we'd be seeing double the unemployment figures by now.  You think people are pissed now, imagine the second great depression!

There are a lot of people that think you can have a thriving economy without banks...  good luck with that... can't have economic growth without money.

People laud FDR for an interventionist economy to try and save it, but when someone actually tries to intervene to prevent a second great depression, people get pissed.

It's like people wanted another great depression!

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
FDR's FIRST action was to shut down insolvent banks (4.00 / 3)
That's how you fix a depression. The failout just transferred losses from the wealthy classes to the public. Not good.

[ Parent ]
There is a big difference between FDR's bank holiday... (0.00 / 0)
...and banks going into liquidation.  

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
That happened this time to (0.00 / 0)
The FDIC shut down tons of insolvent banks.  But FDR didn't have the "too big to fail" banks with their tentacles everywhere like we have today.

[ Parent ]
Too big to fail (4.00 / 3)
Goes into bankruptcy court receivership.

The "Too Big To Fail" is very overblown. The world can operate without the current big money center banks. The Fed could make loans indirectly through smaller banks (actually that's exactly what happened - TARP recipients have cut way back on lending). The TBTF is that all the big money center banks are interlinked and they would all go down together. Manageable for us and the government, if they take decisive action - but not manageable for the financiers. So they got all of us to pay to keep them in the money.


[ Parent ]
He did that so they wouldn't fail (0.00 / 0)
he didn't shut down insolvent banks as much as bail them out in a different way.


[ Parent ]
No, he shut them down (4.00 / 2)
The bank holiday was temporary; but many banks never reopened. The banks that survived were able to pay their own way, which is why Roosevelt didn't pay much for insurance guarantees.

[ Parent ]
Don't forget how much Obama had to do with passing the bailout (4.00 / 7)
IIRC, Obama twisted a lot of arms to get the bailout through congress - enough that it might not have happened without his intervention. He tied his own hands, because he wanted as much calm as possible for the election.

Obama isn't so much trapped by his "non-ideological bipartisanship" image as he is by his own basic ideology: economic "stability" will always trump populism in his mind. On a fundamental level, it's Broderism, and I don't think Obama is trapped by it so much as he accepts it as the way the world is.

Obama clearly doesn't think that punctuated equilibrium is a useful hypothesis for societal change, although I'd imagine he's at least aware of punctuated equilibrium as an evolutionary model.


[ Parent ]
a no win situation (4.00 / 1)
if he had chosen economic instability, populism would be demanding something be done to stop the depression...anything, even bailing out the banks if we had to.  

[ Parent ]
Right, (4.00 / 5)
demanding "something" would have given an FDR type a free hand to do what FDR did. Govern the nation properly.

Obama is no FDR.


[ Parent ]
FDR was no FDR (4.00 / 1)
if he was, Huey Long wouldn't have threatened to run against him.  

[ Parent ]
Well Barack Obama is neither FDR not Huey Long (4.00 / 3)
As was evident to anyone who actually listened to what he said or what he wrote. Who actually realized the things he hadn't said, but should have

He was never a populist.

And certainly no more than a half hearted progressive, who was never willing to fight for progressive causes.  If it fell into his lap, he would take it but fight for it...never.  Ain't his personality.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
Punctuated Equilibrium...is...incrementalism? (0.00 / 0)
Obama isn't so much trapped by his "non-ideological bipartisanship" image as he is by his own basic ideology: economic "stability" will always trump populism in his mind.

That's an interesting theory, and I think you could be right, based on what we've seen so far.

But I don't understand -

Obama clearly doesn't think that punctuated equilibrium is a useful hypothesis for societal change

I never heard of "punctuated equilibrium" so I looked it up (from Wikipedia):

Punctuated equilibrium is a theory in evolutionary biology which proposes that most sexually reproducing species will experience little evolutionary change for most of their geological history (in an extended state called stasis).

If this is right, it seems to me that punctuated equilibrium is like incremental change, which I think Obama follows as a useful model. Most of the political, social, economic change in this country is incremental, bit by bit and most times agonizingly slow.


[ Parent ]
Punctuated equilibrium (0.00 / 0)
The traditional description of evolution by natural selection asserts that changes take place slowly and at an even pace, over immense periods of time.  Punctuated equilibrium asserts that very long periods of time pass with essentially no change, and that those long periods are interrupted by episodes of rapid, radical change.

The point is that change is pretty rare, but when it happens it's swift and radical (e.g., the New Deal).  That's not the Obama world view.


[ Parent ]
Aahh, yes I see. Thanks! (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
At The Very Least (4.00 / 12)
Obama should NOT have asked for the second half of the $700 billion bailout.  Remember, the BIG Democratic victory in October 2008 was cutting the bailout into two parts, and many folks just assumed that the second half would never get requested if Obama took office first

It would have been much easier to ask for $1.3 billion if they could say right off the top, "Well, we were going to spend $350 billion anyway on Wall Street, but now we're redirecting that to Main Street, and we need to build on that to make sure we spend enough soon enough to get a quick recovery."

That should then have become the mantra, "We spend enough soon enough to get a quick recovery."

They could even have finally come down $100 billion to $1.2 billion, and it would have been in the right ballpark.  Particularly if they didn't put so much of that into low-multiplier tax cuts.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


Most of that money was not spent... (0.00 / 0)
$250 billion is still left in the kitty.  Most of the rest was used to save GM and Chrysler, an action that was supported here.

It would never have been easy to ask for $1.3 billion at any point in time.  Period.  Ever.  For any reason.

Considering that according to the news this weekend, under $100 billion of the $800 billion has actually been utilized, I don't see how a bigger amount of money would make a difference.  $100 billion would still have been utilized by now.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Preventing Massive State And Local Layoffs Would Have Been HUGE (4.00 / 7)
And that alone would have required an additional $200 billion or so.  So that's one thing.

On a second point, how much of the bailout has been spent is irrelevant to the politics of appropriating money for Main Street.  So I'm not sure I follow the main thrust of your argument here.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
State and local layoffs are secondary (4.00 / 5)
to the cuts the kids and schools are taking.  Medicaid is on the chopping block, and Mental Health might as well not exist.

Democrats have money for two wars, bank bailouts, and the Bush tax cuts; but they can't afford gov't health care, entitlements, or the time to prosecute and regulate the crooks that destroyed our jobs and savings, and put millions of Americans into foreclosure and bankruptcy.  If anybody thinks the timing of the bankruptcy bill is coincidental, think again.  There is no way in hell this is the party of the people.  

Chris writes that Obama is trapped.  I don't think so, not one bit.  I think the people who trusted and believed in him got had, and the rest of us got stuck going for the ride.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
$100 million (4.00 / 1)
I missed the news reports, but Recovery.gov agrees with that number.

Funds Announced: $308 Billion
Funds Available:    $250 Billion
Funds Spent:         $107 Billion

Though again, at a minimum state budgets could have been protected, which is nearly instantaneous.  Also, a good chunk of the problem is lag time.  A bill twice as large might very well be able to be spent in the same amount of time, but have the same lag issue.

The good news of this fairly low number, of course, is most of the stimulus money hasn't been spent yet, so the effect hasn't been felt as strongly as it will.


[ Parent ]
$250 Billion (0.00 / 0)
If it is true that $250 billion is left from the bank bailout, then the next course of action is pretty obvious.  Passing a bill to allow that money to be spent on a jobs bill seems much easier than allocating new funds.

Also, a good chunk of the money loaned out the first time was returned, with interest.  The bailout bill does not allow that money to be spent again, but I could see a new bill reallocating that money, anyway, particularly if the CBO has that money as officially spent, to make this officially deficit neutral.


[ Parent ]
No bill is necessary.... (4.00 / 1)
In fact, the White House has been conferring how to spend the rest of the TARP money as stimulus.  No consensus has been formed, yet.  They were targeting October, so maybe something will be announced soon.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Really? (0.00 / 0)
I know the law was written in fairly broad language, but I didn't think it was that broad.

That's a lot of money to play with.  It is an interesting delima as you don't want to undercut the funds you think you can get, such as expanded unemployment benefits.

One could build out all the high speed rail projects with that kind of money, for example, and guarantee the trains themselves are build in this country, even if the technology is licensed from overseas.


[ Parent ]
Well, it's not that simple... (4.00 / 1)
...they are talking about small business loans and such that fit within the mandate of the law... they are a bit handcuffed, but as long as it involves "bank like" activities, it will work.

Expanded unemployment would not fall into that, rail would not fall into that (unless it was low interest loans), it has to be "bankish" to pass legal muster.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
Nope (0.00 / 0)
The autos got something under $50 billion IIRC.  Their pension holders, of course, got wiped out.  Pwnsionholders should ghave been at the front of the line, not the back.  Uniom concessions merely watered down union ownership rather than saving anything.

[ Parent ]
Assistance to the State would have immediate effects (4.00 / 2)
Because it would have prevented tens of thousands of layoffs, which are happening in every state....which support other industiries or service sectors or other jobs.

Each state had hundreds and hundreds of programs and projects thay had to cancel...which affect the jobs numbers in that state...and the ability to plant seeds for future growth.

The most quickly utilized monies, the ones which would have had the earliest effects on the present economy and save tens of thousands of dollars, wer eth every moneis cut by Presidents Nelson, Snowe and Collins.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
Where I'm at Now (4.00 / 1)
(Even if you think that the bailout was necessary, it was not necessary for Congress to participate. The Federal Reserve Bank has conducted a much larger bailout of Wall Street than the one approved by Congress. If that bailout actually was necessary, then the Fed's seemingly unlimited bailout ability could simply have been increased to cover for Congress.)

I argued for the bailout at the time and haven't changed my mind of its necessity, in general.  However, I was totally unaware of just how much power an money the Federal Reserve Bank had to fix the problem.  So, with a hindsight knowledge of what the FED accomplished, I agree with you that what was passed by congress was probably not required and certainly not worth the opportunity cost.

None of that changes my opinion of the arguments at the time, though.  Perhaps someone in passing made a point like this, that the FED had all the tools it needed, but not that I remember.  The whole argument seemed to be "bankers are bad" and "this reminds me of the build up to Iraq".  No one ever could convince me the bailout wasn't needed, only that they didn't like the idea it was needed and thus refused to think about it much further.


Actually (4.00 / 5)
People did argue that it reminded them of Iraq, in that they were being sold a pig in a poke, and that if it were so necessary, then oversight was all the more necessary.  Furthermore, they argued, that if oversight demands were enough to make the banks walk away, then they really didn't need it after all.

So, in short, the argument was a bit complicated, but people were arguing that it was not needed, and they pointed to the above as supporting evidence.

What's more, since the underlying problem was toxic assets, the argument was made that what was needed was bailouts for the mortgage-holders, which would, in turn, render most of the assets non-toxic--a "help Main Street first" approach.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
FED (0.00 / 0)
Yes, those were the best of the arguments.  They existed, though you usually had to read carefully to get the argument between populist rants even among those supporting the well thought out analysis.  One thing the arguments rarely ever were was "a bit complicated".

But none of that has anything to do with the role of the FED.  My claim is I never read that argument and apparently you can't remember that, either.


[ Parent ]
The Democratic Party got what it wanted... (4.00 / 2)
Obama - never a liberal, always a conservative.

Well, yes (4.00 / 5)
But it's not as if this was a isolated slip-up, a departure. Given his advisors, the power players on the relevant committees, the rest of Obama's agenda--"free trade," weak regulatory proposals, unwillingness to raise taxes on the rich, etc--the Wall Street bailout was pretty much inevitable.

The Democratic Party is thwarting Democratic realignment.  


We have missed our chance at a realignment (4.00 / 1)
A realignment was predicated on a quick turnaround in the economy and wide support from the American people early on.  I can now safely say that 2008 will likely be viewed as just another abberation in American politics.  Obama and his advisors have made that choice.  

disagree (4.00 / 4)
If a realignment was predicated on a quick turnaround in the economy, then it was always a pipe dream. There is so much rot in the country's financial institutions that nothing could have been done to forestall a fairly long downturn.

A realignment was predicated on the incoming government (legislative with the support of executive) being willing to break with the past - to legislate on the principle of what's right for the country rather than on the principle of compromise-with-corporate-lobbyists-at-all-costs. Had they done that, the economy might still be losing jobs (at best, we could only hope for stabilization of jobs by this point), but it would have fundamentally changed the country's relationship with government.


[ Parent ]
The economy would never have had (4.00 / 2)
a quick turnaround...there was no way that was happening, no matter what we did.  

[ Parent ]
country club wing of the Republican Party (4.00 / 2)
I think that during the Bush years the country club wing of the Republican party left and has now taken over the Democratic party.

I don't really find it compelling (4.00 / 1)
First of all, while it seems to have been edited out of history, Obama's embrace of the bailout and McCain's hesitation was central to Obama's victory. The suggested plan that Obama should have said, forget the crisis now, we'll pass a budget and borrow a over a trillion dollars next year seems absurd to me.  

The assumption that waiting six months would not have damaged to the economy seems questionable to me.

Another objection to the stimulus was that the government couldn't quickly spend so much money effectively.  Given how slowly this money is being spent, I don't see how you reject it so easily.

 

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


Spending money quickly (4.00 / 2)
There are many places the money could have been "spent" faster, such as making sure no state needed to make any budget cuts.

[ Parent ]
Most of us saw this coming... (4.00 / 2)

  ...but it's extremely important to reiterate it now. The Democrats, the "party of the people", left the great populist space empty and unoccupied with their coddling of the wealthy (to the point where they don't even want to restore taxes to Reagan-era levels) -- and let the far-right Republicans swoop in. Many on this site and others were warning about just that.

  But we need to keep on making this point, because they'll be blaming US for the bloodbath that awaits the Democratic Party next year. This despite the fact that not one single piece of legislation that has come out of the Democratic trifecta can even be remotely described as "progressive". Lily Ledbetter, maybe.

  Obama is our Weimar President. And it's a 100% self-inflicted title.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


I see Obama more as a Gorbachev type (4.00 / 3)
He thinks that a little more transparency (Glasnost) a few tweaks in the system (perestroika) and all will be well. He simply does not understand the necessity of the accountability for all involved, from the war criminal to the banksters, and that many people need to be sent to jail.

Nor does he understand the necessity of policies that would get money into the hands of ordinary people.

My fear is that he will wind up like Gorbachev, with Blackwater playing the part of the coup leaders. Unless Obama is more like Hugo Chavez, surviving the coup and coming back bigger and badder than ever.


[ Parent ]
I'm no Soviet expert (4.00 / 2)
but it seems to me even from the limited reading I've done that Gorbachev realized early on -- under Andropov or Chernenko, if not Brezhnev -- that the entire Soviet system was corrupt, broken, and useless.  He was committed to the continued existence of the USSR and the CP, but he wasn't just trying to tweak a little here and a little there.  Glasnost and perestroika were really pretty radical challenges to the Soviet power structure, even if they didn't do away with the nation per se or the Party.

[ Parent ]
Unfortunately, the American public thinks... (4.00 / 1)
...that if the banks were allowed to fail, everything would have just been hunky dory.  The bailout money may not have been well utilized, but even Krugman will tell you that without intervention from the government, our high unemployment numbers would look completely rosy in comparison to what would have happened otherwise.

And, lest you forget, the bailout money was also used to save GM, Chrysler, and the UAW, actions which were supported on this site.  No bailout, no GM, the end of the upper midwest...

This was a republican action by a Republican president.  Just 'cos congressional republicans tried to shirk their responsibility, doesn't make it a Democratic cause...

The problem is that the public confuses the stimulus with the bailouts (as Krugman will tell you), so when they think of Obama's stimulus package, they think of the bank bailouts.

But, had it not happened, they'd be pissed at us for the entire economy collapsing against the wall and 20% unemployment.  Then they'd be yelling at Democrats for "not doing something to stop it!  You had the votes, why didn't you do something?"

There is no threat to realignment... Reagan lost 26 seats in congress his first two years.  The first years are the toughest, 'cos it takes time to prove that your philosophy works.  Everyone knows that 2010 is going to be a tough year... everyone knew that going in, bailout or no bailout.  It's not as tough as it could be, 'cos the Republicans have still completely soiled themselves.

The election is not next month, it's over a year away.  Let's not panic just yet.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


I don't think Americans think (4.00 / 1)
things would have been hunky dory if the banks fail...I think they want to believe in the fantasy that if we had let them fail, everything would be fine and the evil bankers would suffer while we thrive, but no one I know thought that would happen...instead the assumption was, if we didn't bail out the banks, the gazillionaires would have been forced to suffer, even though our suffering would be worse, so the blood lust people have for bankers takes precedence in that argument.

Most people agree bailing out the banks was a necessary evil...and if the economy gets moving again, they'll forget about the bailouts, strike them up as a necessary evil in our history, like dropping nukes on Japan or suspending habeaus corpus during the Civil War, that we want to avoid ever having to do again.

But if it doesn't work, then people will be saying "Hmm, gee, bailout the banks, don't bailout the banks, would it have made a difference?"

I think most people grudgingly agree it was necessary...they just want something to show for it.  


[ Parent ]
I don't think Americans think (4.00 / 2)
much at all.

[ Parent ]
Reasons why we shouldn't panic (4.00 / 4)
I can't think of a single political reason. Honestly, I can't. This sad mental state has nothing to do Republicans, Democrats, the President, the Blue Dogs, or even Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, except indirectly.

What it does have to with is the confusion about what we should want, why we should want it, and how we should go about getting it -- not just among us wonks and fidgets, but in the country as a whole.

There are a host of reasons not to panic, but I doubt that anyone here would be consoled by my telling them that they're a) traditional, b) non-political, and c) honored mostly for their usefulness in sustaining one's humanity in the midst of an enveloping age of chaos.


[ Parent ]
one little nit to pick (4.00 / 1)
If memory serves, Reagan did the most damage in his first two years. This was due to the effective control of the house he enjoyed by the boll weevils (dlc) giving enough votes to the repub minority to pass regressive legislation. The situation was corrected when the dems gained enough house seats in 1982 to overcome the DINOS.

Government by organized money is no better than government by organized mob..... FDR

[ Parent ]
strawman! (4.00 / 2)
progressives weren't arguing that we should let them fail.  We were arguing for temporary nationalization and breaking them up!

[ Parent ]
Politics, economics, and idiomatics (4.00 / 2)
I realize that this is a blog diary, not an English treatise, and that you have no desire to emulate William F. Buckley, Chris, so please forgive me,

but....

A lodestone (or loadstone) is a magnetic rock that can point you in the right direction, i.e north.

A millstone is what they hang around your neck when they want you to take a long walk off a short pier.

Otherwise, I agree with you. If you wanted to avoid the competition of lying right-wing demagogues, or even of semi-honest ones, like Ron Paul, for the affections of a hard-pressed people, bailing out Wall Street while simultaneously shorting the stimulus was definitely not a smart way to do it.


I'd be much happier had Ron Paul won. (0.00 / 0)
I never liked Obama. I just did the math: he was the only non-GOP, non-Clinton candidate that could win. There was a symbolism of Americans electing a black man named Hussein 7 years into the phony War on Terror.

But it is clear that Ron Paul, even despite the Party Line of the arrogant left calling him an enemy, would have been a much better President.

Ron Paul would have ended the wars by now.

Ron Paul would have humbled the thieves.

Ron Paul understands the necessity of the welfare state over the near term, he would have only had 8 years.

Obama will continue to send me and my family members to the twin hells of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama will continue the debt peonage that will one day rip civilization asunder.

Obama will continue to talk the talk, but never walk the walk.

Better than the neocons? Wow, that's not saying much.


Completely ridiculous assessment (4.00 / 8)
Ron Paul would've given us the short term satisfaction of going after the FED and those on Wall St who got us into this crisis, but he would use that political capital to completely deregulate Wall St even further and pave the way for a much worse recession. While he would be better on Afghanistan, his entire foreign policy would be a disaster because he would spend his political capital being isolationist, which hurts us on Climate Change, and would weaken any alliances we have left.

Furthermore, any action he would take on domestic policy would be be regressive and in the direction of less government. When he's talked about the welfare state, he's routinely stated that it would not be polically palatable to disassemble it right away, but it would be possible to transition out of it. The one issue he would be better at is civil liberty issues, which I will grant you is no small issue and is also where I'm most upset at Obama. But make no mistake, Ron Paul's libertarian philosophy led to agreement with us on military force and civil liberties, but he's not our friend.  


[ Parent ]
I'm not sure the ship has sailed on realignment (4.00 / 2)
The last realignment happened under Reagan, but it never really crystalized until 1983, as the economy began to recover. Reagan's election was a repudiation of Carter, much like Obama's was of Bush and FDR's was of Hoover. In Reagan's first midterms, his approval fell below 50% and his party got killed. I think many of us, as early as October last year, felt the economy would truly recover in 2010-2011, and the democratic party would have to bite the bullet in the midterms.

Does that mean the D's have done everything correctly?? Hell no, I completely agree that its a complete embarassment that corpratist whores have actually tapped into some of populist outrage. Obama's inability to tap into a populist streak that has been with all successful democrats was evident early in the election and is playing itself out now. Being more populist and the lack of a bailout would've been much need instruments to blunt the anit-populist backlash Obama and democrats are facing. What played a huge role in Reagan's realigning presidency was his willingness to use conservative anti-government populist rhetoric, and a willingness to challenge the conventional wisdom. As long as Obama isn't willing to defend government involvement with the only argument that works, liberal populist rhetoric, then he won't change that general center-right view Americans have towards government involvement. He began doing that in his last address to congress, but he needs to do it more, and do it forcefully. Spend political capital on it.

Like I said though, the realignment ultimately depends on the economy and legislation like healthcare and financial reform, and whether they're tangible positives on people's lives. I'll say this though, if Obama wants any chance of passing a strong Consumer Financial Protection Agency, he better gear up for some populist rhetoric, otherwise he'll lose that battle like he's lost it on healthcare and climate change.


Nixon (4.00 / 2)
As Paul has detailed before, the real realignment came in 68 with the election of Nixon.  Note this strengthens your arguement by 12 years.

I'm not sure why you think Obama lost the battle on healthcare.  It certainly looks to me like he will sign a bill very close to what he asked for.


[ Parent ]
The realignment came in 1980 (0.00 / 0)
And was supported by the 1982 election results, where Democrats only gained 27 seats in the House and actually gained nothing in the Senate or state legislatures.  

[ Parent ]
1896 (0.00 / 0)
By far the most similar realignment moment occurred in 1896 and resulted in lots of upset at the ballot box (125 of 257 House members ousted in 1894) but a continuation of the status quo.  In this case, the status quo is split governance ineffectively done.  Ugh.

When we needed great we got it in Lincoln and FDR.  When we had major recessions we got William Henry Harrison and William McKinley.  And a weak continuance of the old game.

At best, we will stumble into someone who is surprisingly better than expected, a Theodore Roosevelt or a James Knox Polk, that will get some positive momentum going until the FDR or Lincoln figure shows up.  

If so, what a missed opportunity.


If Obama had… (4.00 / 4)
...a tad more respect for populism, he'd be able to see how such rhetoric actually bolsters his position. But unfortunately, he won't place any faith in it, instead prefering the company of the very elites who are complicit in the corporatist rape of the economy. It's like he's always the voice of wisdom in a room full of center-left capitulators, and that feeling of superiority is good enough for him; he just won't party with "the rabble." He can't channel populist momentum because he's always caught unawares by it. There's still time in this presidency to recover from such a fundamental oversight, but we're gonna hurt a lot in the meantime.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

People don't realize how close we came to the cliff (4.00 / 2)
Read Robert Samuelson's The Great Escape on how close we came to going over the cliff and how the Obama team pulled us back. Samuelson is no pillar of the left and has criticized Obama on many things. But here he admits that the Obama team pulled the world financial system back from catastrophe and avoided the global depression that would have been the immediate result of the gears of the financial world freezing up.

Maybe it could have been done differently. Maybe. But what the Obama team did worked. If they do nothing else, they will go down in history as avoiding Depression 2.

Yes, we have a long way to go to climb out of the hole that US economic policy has been digging for three decades. But it's not even Year Two yet. And we are still eating.

Get some perspective.


We talk about how WE, the Democrats blew this... (4.00 / 3)
but I think the underlying message is that the Establishment Dems in Washington represent, not their voters, but their major corporate donors who will thwart ANY populist and progressive movement at any cost. Once you start giving the people what they want, and the people start believing they can actually get what they want, then anything can happen. A rise in taxes on the wealthy, tariffs on imported goods, major health care reform (single payer), or even breaking up the big corps and demanding real competition. Better to nip it in the bud before any of that BAD stuff gets rolling.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

Too bad Obama whipped for TARP, then (4.00 / 1)
Because nobody could have predicted (10/02/2008) that owning the bailouts would be a bad thing. I mean, "bad" when or if you think about voters. For banksters, it's all good. Ditto the Dem leadership, who'll get work on K Street when they graduate Congress. Ditto Obama personally. Free yourself from the notion that the public interest has anything to do with any of this -- IMF's Simon Johnson uses the word "banana republic", though I prefer kleptocracy -- and things become much more clear.

Meanwhile, and hilariously, "progressives" fight to bail out another species of vampire squid -- the "health" insurance companies -- by guaranteeing them a continued supply of fresh blood market from the mandate, with the IRS acting as a collection agent being the sweetener that makes the whole bill a sure-fire political winner.  No doubt, in a year, we'll be having the same sort of serious discussion about the unexpected (by some) outcome of [a|the] [Federalist?] public [health insurance?] [option|plan].

Oh, wait. Not "in a year."

In late 2013.

Oh well, at least we've learned something from the TARP debacle: Punt on the consequences....  

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


Who owns the bailout bill (4.00 / 1)
Here ya go.

future_reference

Yay!

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


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