A Quick Point About Iraq, Health Care and Olympia Snowe

by: David Sirota

Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 13:30


I may be the only person following the debate over health care who is shocked at the attention hobbit-esque Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Middle Earth) is getting for voting for the Senate Finance Committee health care bill - but yes, I am surprised, and for what should be obvious reasons.

First of all, Snowe's vote in support of the bill wasn't mathematically necessary - the bill would have passed with or without her vote for it. That's just an empirical fact; as is the fact that Democrats have 60 votes themselves to overcome a filibuster with or without Snowe; as is the fact that Democrats have the 51 votes necessary to pass health care reform with reconciliation, again with or without Snowe. So the idea that her vote was/is pivotal is a fantasy created by a Beltway media always trying to manufacture drama - and often stretching to manufacture that drama in a city populated by old, boring, ultra-parsing sycophants and lobotomy cases.

Second, and more important, the idea that Snowe's support is important because it will allow the final bill to be called "bipartisan" - and the idea that that billing will politically protect Democrats - is absurd on its face. How do we know this? Because Democrats taught us that via the Iraq War.

Recall that a huge chunk of Democratic legislators voted to support the Iraq War. Indeed, the Iraq resolution was far more "bipartisan" than the health care bill can ever hope to be in this Congress. And yet, Democrats turned right around and used the Iraq War to criticize Republicans and the Bush administration - and quite effectively, if the 2006 and 2008 elections were any indication. I'm not saying I was 100% happy with that - I would have liked the Democrats to oppose the war from the get-go, but I am saying it's a pretty clear fact that even though Democrats supported the Iraq War, it didn't prevent them from attacking the Republicans/Bush on the issue.

Thus, the idea that one Republican vote from Middle Earth will politically insulate Democrats from GOP attacks on health care doesn't make any sense. The only thing that will ultimately protect Democrats from those inevitable GOP political attacks will be a health care bill that actually delivers real results. In this way, good policy is the best politics and bad policy is the worst politics. Deliver real health care reform that improves the system and brings down costs (ie. one with a public option, regulation, etc.) - that is, create a third-rail kind of program - and, as even GOP strategist William Kristol admits, Democrats could be a permanent majority because Republican criticism of the legislation will be like Republican criticism of Medicare (that is, self-defeating). Deliver a bad health care bill that empowers insurance companies and makes the system worse (ie. a Baucus-like bill with no public option) and Republican criticism of the legislation will be extremely effective.

That's a truism, whether the Senator from Middle Earth voted for it in committee or not, and whether or not she votes for it on the floor, too.

So, as the final legislative negotiations ensue, it's important to remember that weakening the bill (let's say, by preventing a public option) in order to get a vote from Snowe is positively idiotic because the political/electoral return on those concessions is almost nil. Make the bill worse, and you make the GOP's inevitable attacks that much stronger - and no citing of Olympia Snowe's vote is going to change that. Almost nobody outside of Maine and D.C. has a clue who Olympia Snowe is, and more important, her vote just isn't all that significant to final passage.

David Sirota :: A Quick Point About Iraq, Health Care and Olympia Snowe

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Are you making fun of Snowe's height? (4.00 / 3)


yes (4.00 / 3)
Thus, the idea that one Republican vote from Middle Earth will politically insulate Democrats from GOP attacks on health care doesn't make any sense. The only thing that will ultimately protect Democrats from those inevitable GOP political attacks will be a health care bill that actually delivers real results.

well said


Of course it doesn't make any sense. (0.00 / 0)
That's because the whole thing is a ridiculous bullshit charade. Dems are only pretending to fight for effective health care reform. They're intentionally throwing the game because they've been bought off. Let's stop pretending that they're well-meaning but not too bright. We need to bring the pain. We need to show them that we are willing to trade Dem quantity for Dem quality - primary them, run negative ads, anything that actually puts the serious hurt on them for their villainy.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
No David... (4.00 / 3)
Thus, the idea that one Republican vote from Middle Earth will politically insulate Democrats from GOP attacks on health care doesn't make any sense.

It will protect them from David Broder attacks on health care... for about five minutes.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Baucus (4.00 / 2)
The Baucus bill is particularly susceptible to political attack.  It slashes Medicare and taxes good health care benefits to pay the insurers.  Hmm, unions plus seniors vs. David Broder and Max Baucus.  Can we vote for the regular bill repeatedly?  Baucus is no "fiscal conservative."  He's a corporate shill.

Snowe is, too.  She knows the insurers can't compete against a real public option.  And said so.  Her support of Baucus Care is a real warning that Max's bill stinks.

BTW, I like Maine=ME=Middle Earth.  Broderland or Versailles or Middle Earth.  It is all a fairy land of the imagination.


Agreed completely. (0.00 / 0)
Good points all.

The only possible benefit from Snow is that she might vote for the original vote for cloture to allow the Bill on the floor (under the present plan for passage).  That vote may be useful to stop Lieberman from trying to broker some corporate "contribution" to him, or from him attempting to arm twist the Democratic Party in any manner. She lowers his threat level, though probably not by much.

It is not too high praise to say that Senator Snow probably has more ethics and principles than the Prince of Betrayal.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


hobbit? middle earth? (4.00 / 2)
What's with the juvenile mocking of someone's appearance?  Lame.

Snowe essential to shafting us (0.00 / 0)
That's why Emanuel and his minions (Reid & Obama) are making Snowe and "bipartisanship" so important.  We are told that nothing is more important (for reasons never spelled out) than "bipartisanship"--even if it's only a single Republican Senator form of "bipartisanship."  Saving poor peasants' lives means nothing compared to that.  So out goes the public option and in comes all that insurance company cash.  "Snowe wouldn't budge" we will hear.  And somehow progressive voters are expected to be "understanding" once again.  Just like with torture, extraordinary renditions, LGBT rights, screwing homeowners, ignoring workers' rights,  escalating in Afghanistan.  Emanuel seems to think that he can get us to swallow anything and everything.  And the Veal Pen makes him think he's right.    

Major political interests: torture; human rights; stopping war with Iran.

But but but... (0.00 / 0)
What about that warm and fuzzy feeling the Democratic Senators will get from knowing that they voted with Emperor Snowe?

I guess nuance is a French word (0.00 / 0)
Democrats who voted for AUMF did not vote for the Iraq War they actually got.

What the world and the Senate knew in September 2002 was much different than what the world and the Senate knew in February 2003. A vote to go to war against a Saddam regime whom most people thought possessed active WMD and was refusing to yield to UN Security Council Resolutions should not be taken as a vote to go to war with Iraq even if Saddam, against all expectations, actually blinked and complied with those Resolutions. Which he did starting in late November.

In February 2003 George W Bush went to the United States people and made two statements. One that the decision to go to war had not been made and could be avoided if Saddam fully disarmed. This was a lie.

The second statement was that if the decision to go to war was made that he would be the Decider. This was the truth. Neither the Senate nor the AUMF controlled that decision, indeed there is very good evidence that that particular decision had been made well before Bush even gained the Presidency.

I was against the war from the very beginning. Unfortunately I was just a commenter on some anti-war blogs. My opposition was based on two beliefs. One drawn from reporting from Fiske, Ritter, and Gilliard was that it was unlikely that Saddam had massive hidden capabilities, the geography of the part of Iraq that he controlled didn't allow for big underground installations. Two drawn from a number of sources that even if Saddam had WMD that he had not way to deliver them in meaningful quantities to the U.S. But this kind of analysis never reached most Senators, nor could they have counted on Saddam having actually disarmed and effectively sanitized Iraq of WMD remnants in the year before the war. Because if Bush-Cheney had found large quantities of chemical munitions and an active program to deliver them they would have declared a huge victory even bigger than what they did with Mission Accomplished.

Many Democratic Senators were in a lose-lose situation in September in that a No vote in that environment could well have resulted in massive electoral defeats that likely would have made retaking the Senate impossible for decades no matter what the actual results of the war. To simply take this complicated intelligence/political calculation down to "Voted for the Iraq War" is an unfair cheap shot.

The AUMF on the surface was a vote to disarm Saddam. At that level it was a smashing success, five months later we had reasonable proof that he was disarmed. If Bush had been acting in good faith that would be that. But he wasn't and most Democrats were probably aware he wasn't and that their vote would lead to war no matter what. But that does not make them guilty of war-mongering in quite the same way Bush-Cheney were fully consciously culpable. If Democrats knew in Sept 2002 definitively what they would come to know during winter/spring 2003 I suspect the vote would have been much different. On the other hand that 2003 knowledge probably pretty much was in Bush-Cheney hands the fall before and they simply didn't give a shit.

See Downing Street memo.


This seems like a distinction without a difference. (0.00 / 0)
Most Democrats voted for the Iraq Liberation Act. I don't agree with you on the electoral calculus in 2002, but I really doubt they would have been turned out en masse if they failed to vote for war in 1998 - that was war mongering, and it made it all the easier for Bush Administration to push war a few years later.  

What the world and the Senate knew in September 2002 was much different than what the world and the Senate knew in February 2003. A vote to go to war against a Saddam regime whom most people thought possessed active WMD and was refusing to yield to UN Security Council Resolutions should not be taken as a vote to go to war with Iraq even if Saddam, against all expectations, actually blinked and complied with those Resolutions. Which he did starting in late November.

WMD's were an obvious pretext, so there was no reason to think that Saddam's actions were going to matter at all.

If Democrats knew in Sept 2002 definitively what they would come to know during winter/spring 2003 I suspect the vote would have been much different.

Why? How would the political calculus been any different? And as you say, they likely knew Bush was not acting in good faith.  

The politics of this all was shaped by the fact that Democrats has been repeating the nonsense about Iraq as a threat since the first Gulf War, and that they actively pushed the idea that if Iraq (but not most other countries) violated certain treaties or other international obligations that war would be justified. They accepted and advanced all the premises that the Bush Admin did, but then (if they did dissent) tended to talk about sanctions and multilateralism - which didn't make sense given what they had already conceded. Democrats, if they were truly reticent, were hoisted on their own petard. Still, many refuse to say (for whatever reason) that the Iraq War was wrong.

You seem to think that the motives of the Democrats should distinguish them from the Republicans, but we don't have access to those motives and in the end you seem to rely on nothing more than a feeling to determine what those were.  But even if you did know, it wouldn't change what they did - so it wouldn't make a difference to me.  They weren't as bad as the Republicans is true, but I'm not sure it counts as a defense.

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel


[ Parent ]
I'm not shocked (0.00 / 0)
but that's just because I've seen the pattern a kajillion times with Lieberman.

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers


Democrats attacking Bush on Iraq (0.00 / 0)
I would have liked the Democrats to oppose the war from the get-go, but I am saying it's a pretty clear fact that even though Democrats supported the Iraq War, it didn't prevent them from attacking the Republicans/Bush on the issue.

Actually, I don't think it's a "pretty clear fact": support for the Iraq war made things incredibly difficult for Congressional Democrats running for President against Bush in 2004.  It pretty much torpedoed Lieberman's and Gephardt's candidacies and forced Kerry into awkward, contortionist positioning that made him vulnerable to charges that he was a opportunistic flip-flopper, charges that, combined with similar ones for other Bush initiatives like NCLB and the Patriot Act, probably worked.  In other words, not only did the Iraq war votes prevented the Democratic nominee (Kerry) from attacking Bush effectively, but it also prevented him from unseating Bush.

It wasn't until later, when the Iraq war got so bad that voters apparently didn't care about consistency anymore, that Democrats could finally make Iraq a winning issue.  But the House class of 2006 had the benefit of not having voted for the Iraq resolution, thus protecting them from charges of hypocrisy.  The four House Democrats who moved to the Senate in 2006 - Brown, Cardin, Menendez, and Sanders - all voted against the resolution.

I agree that Snowe's vote will not keep Republicans from attacking Democrats on health care.  But that's not because Republicans are immune to charges of hypocrisy; it's because no other Republican besides Snowe will vote for health care reform and thus be guilty of hypocrisy.


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