Can Progressives and Conservatives Agree on Health Care Reform?

by: Mike Lux

Fri Oct 16, 2009 at 15:00


That is the big question everyone is wondering about these days. Most of the traditional media is drooling over the idea of a train wreck, hyping the disagreements and hoping for failure.  But the disagreements are also quite real and quite significant.  Conservative Democrats don't want a public option, progressives are insisting on it.  Conservatives don't want to spend too much, progressives want to be sure insurance is actually affordable to the middle class.

Conservatives don't want businesses to pay anything for their workers' health care, progressives don't want businesses to get a free ride, especially if their workers are being forced to buy insurance.  Conservatives want workers taxed on their health plan if it's a good one, progressives would rather have the super rich pay more in taxes instead of the middle class worker with a decent insurance package.

These are tough issues to work out, but I am confident that the White House and the legislative leaders will figure out a way.  When legislation is this important to pass - substantively and politically - leaders figure out a path to getting it done. I have seen it happen many different times over the years- seemingly impossible to solve policy differences worked out with patience, muscle, and creativity.

Take the public option.  In what is either a sign we will pass health reform, or sign of the apocalypse (or maybe both for certain fundamentalist Christians), conservative Blue Dog Mike Ross and I, one of the original hard core public option advocates, actually agree on something related to the public option.  Ross is now suggesting that "instead of creating an entirely new government bureaucracy to administer a public option, Medicare should be offered as a choice."  I have fought like crazy for a new public health insurance option to be created for people under 65 years old, but I actually think that this idea is a very reasonable compromise:  don't create a new entity, just open up the perfectly good public option we have - Medicare - to anyone who wants to buy into it.  That would actually strengthen Medicare because younger, healthier people would be joining the risk pool.  And it would satisfy progressives by giving some real competition to the private insurance industry.

Or take affordability.  For the fiscally conservative Democrats, they can take reassurances on that issue from the latest CBO report which says that both of the two House bills comes close to (one slightly above, and one slightly below) the $900 billion amount targeted by fiscal conservatives, but they also cover more people, are far more affordable and are deficit neutral.

Here's the bottom line on middle class affordability:  the compromise the Blue Dogs forced on the House Energy and Commerce bill made the cost for middle class families $551 a year more, while the Senate Finance bill was a staggering $3,900 a year more for middle class families than the Senate HELP Committee bill.  And yet the CBO now says that the better House version of the bill (which is closer to the Senate HELP Committee) is just as fiscally responsible as the "centrist" alternatives that cost the middle class families so much more. When you look at the actual numbers and policy implications of the bills, it's easy to come to terms. In this case, the House bill allows both fiscal conservatives and those of us who want more affordability for the middle class to win.

When conservatives and progressive Democrats in the Senate and House sit down to look at these bills, compromise ideas like Ross' idea of letting everyone buy into Medicare will emerge, and when the merits of the bills are analyzed, I believe that people will come to understand that the political and policy logic of going with the better alternatives in all these areas.  This is too important - to the country, to the President, to the Democratic Party - for this not to get resolved.

And if Mike Ross and a lefty like Mike Lux can find a common ground, then anything is possible.

Mike Lux :: Can Progressives and Conservatives Agree on Health Care Reform?

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"Take the public option." (0.00 / 0)
Please!

[rimshot. laughter]

Seriously. Just too easy ;-)

* * *

However, the binary thinking that is all too evident in this post is a concern. There are plenty of progressives (no quotes this time) who are for a genuine solution -- single payer -- instead of [a|the] [Federalist?] [strong|robust]? public [option|plan], and the farther from Versailles they are, the more likely this is.

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


Yes, And For The Umpteenth Time (4.00 / 4)
The reality of where we are now is that we need to fight for something that puts us in the right policy watershed, so that the natural momentum of future, foreseeable problems and policy clashes tends to take us down to the single payer sea as the endpoint.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Sweet Thames run softly.... (0.00 / 0)
It all depends on what you mean when you say it's all downhill from here. I have the feeling that when all this muck makes it down to the delta, all the fish will die, and we'll have to close the beaches.

[ Parent ]
I have to say that predicting bad outcomes from any political process (4.00 / 1)
is not the mark of a skilled observer, anyone can do it. Anyone.

Prognostication based on new information, or on new insight is appreciated however, as is humor and wit.

Your contribution wins on humor.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
So sue me (4.00 / 1)
Anyone can do it. Anyone can call a sow's ear a silk purse, too -- especially when it's shiny and new -- but in my opinion, doing so takes even less skill than predicting bad outcomes, inasmuch as it begins by brandishing its license to ignore history.

Is Mike Ross the beginning of a trend that we can profit from? Perhaps, but the evidence for it is slim at this point. Mike Lux, for all his virtues, is obviously in the business of selling hope -- or at least optimism. I appreciate his efforts, but since I'm in the business of giving away skepticism for free, I don't see us as competitors.

If you like you glass half full, by all means take Mike L's observations as gospel. In the end, of course, we'll get somewhere, and it may well be better than where we are now. I just believe, based on the evidence I'm aware of, including the evidence presented in this post, that it's less likely than Mike thinks it is.


[ Parent ]
Well I liked the humour but as you have engaged in the facts of the matter. (4.00 / 1)
Two people who know more and are connected a heck of lot better than I ever could be, one being Chris Bowers, just posted or reported vote counts and alternatives. On the alternatives and prognostication, I think Mike is reporting fairly closely what both said. The likelihood of your fears has fallen somewhat today, and not just based on Mike's evidence or attitude.

The knowledge that something is possible, and more likely with some collection of "these actions" is useful, encouraging, motivating and informative.

Doom, even laughably delightful doom, that is mere repetition of the same doom offered before has none of these benefits, and actually lowers those benefits for other data streams. It is actually a data "black hole" that sucks things worth knowing into its spinning event horizon of cynical inaction.

With the right packaging and ribbons its very salable though.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
I (respectfully) disagree (4.00 / 3)
The same doom offered before. Have the facts changed, or are you just bored?

Do you remember what was said about Nouriel Roubini, back when every optimist from California to the New York islands was taking a bicycle pump to the housing bubble? Isn't he even a little less despicable, now that he's been proven right? Is that what it would take for me to earn your favor as an analyst, or would you still think of me as Dr. Doom?

What I think, apart from a little joke here and there, is that fixing what's wrong with the United States is going to be as daunting a task as fixing what was wrong with the Soviet Union, and that it's unclear at this point what combination of tactics or strategy -- even over time -- are likely to be most fruitful in accomplishing that unenviable task.

Yes, Mike and Chris are professionals, and damned good at what they do. Their thoughts on the political calculus affecting Health Care/Insurance Reform are not to be taken lightly by civilians like me. I have nothing bad to say about the kind of political activism that they're both hip-deep in, and actually think that they're doing their best to make my life better, and that they both deserve my thanks.

On the other hand, I'm by no means sanguine that the United States can actually survive as a banana republic with nuclear weapons, let alone prosper, even though exactly that future is what most of the current occupants of our Congressional pig sty seem to doing their best to cast as our proper and inevitable destiny.

Anyone who stands in their way, including Mike and Chris, have my gratitude, but my assessment of their -- our -- chances includes factors other than my respect and admiration for both of them.


[ Parent ]
I do not, having read your work, doubt your abilities. (4.00 / 2)
Nor do I doubt past clarity. Nor, lets be honest, do I count your being right now as something of less than a damn good bet, if risky.  Odds are more than calculable.

Useful doom however is different. "Run run run! she is going to blow!!!!!" is a useful even necessary doom announcement.

"They won't get her in time" chucked to the parents of a toddler in a well, isn't quite so needed.

My exaggerations have a literary license, though there should be a adult in the car at the same time.  

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Which is where we are. (0.00 / 0)
I did not foresee that the policy debate would take us quite this close. The level of the policy debate during the primary wasn't very encouraging. The chance of a "right" to get Medicare, even if paid for, is a welcome shift.

I see no reason why that couldn't easily be moved forward as well, before 2013, as for example paid for health coverage wouldn't increase costs over the ten year estimate, AND, Obama has already promised a form of coverage for the people suffering the malady known as "Pre-existing Private Health Insurance Coverage without Health Care" That covers both problems and promises without cost, its a big bonus. The federal government may also want to sue for costs they have to cover, that should have been covered by the Private Insurer but weren't. Thats pretty typical for large insurers

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
reality (4.00 / 1)
The reality of where we are now is that we need to fight for something that puts us in the right policy watershed, so that the natural momentum of future, foreseeable problems and policy clashes tends to take us down to the single payer sea as the endpoint.

paul, maybe some of us see reality a little differently. my pov is that a small po that doesn't live up to the hype (sorry but in no way do the words "robust" "available on day one" or "available to all" apply to any of the pos now being considered) will put is in the wrong watershed -- it will undermine the momentum to single payer.

if the po fails to deliver, then who is going to win the "i told you so" argument?  i'm hoping (and i hope you are too) it's the single payer folks who've been ignored, marginalize and mocked. because if it's not, it's going to be the republicans (and conservadems) saying "see, we told you that gov can't run a public insurance plan (and progressives only have failed big gov ideas)." that could be the stake through the heart of both a truly robust po (aka hacker's original proposal) and single payer.

maybe this thinking is all wrong (i'd love to be convinced otherwise), but it's not that single payer advocates haven't been thinking about the future steps in the battle for universal healthcare. indeed that's one of the reasons i keep making a pest of myself -- because i want single payer advocates to have a chance to win the follow on "i told you so" argument.


[ Parent ]
Yes, but... (4.00 / 1)
So far, there seems to be little give from the Conservadems on anything.  You would think they would be trying to work some solutions that would satisfy the progressives but at least to date, it seems like most every new proposal comes from the progressives somewhat watering down the bill.

Mike, I hope you are correct and we end up in a good space.  I still maintain the WH could have made this a lot easier on everyone by insisting on certain provisions instead of allowing all these opposing "camps" to be setup which forces a needle to be threaded in order to make this happen.


Compromise (4.00 / 4)
but I actually think that this idea is a very reasonable compromise:  don't create a new entity, just open up the perfectly good public option we have - Medicare - to anyone who wants to buy into it.

I love the idea that this might sell as a compromise.  I think every single liberal would consider this better than what has been proposed so far.  I thought they were avoiding this to prevent it looking to liberal, or more of a slippery slope into single payer.

But if some conservatives are serious about this, then yeah, lets take it!


Agreed. (4.00 / 2)
What strikes me as rather ironic in this is that Medicare for all (currently HR676) has always been seen as the extreme lefty view, what with Kucinich backing it and all.  Now we've got a Blue Dog saying we should use Medicare as the public option, and Mike's floating it as a trial balloon for the compromise solution.

There's still the pesky little details of making it available to everyone and having it take effect within the next year or so rather than shunting it off into some nebulous future, but as a starting point for the end game, sounds good to me.

It can take a long time for the Overton Window to shift left, but it's nice to see it happen when it does.

If you don't fight, you can't win.
Never give up. Never Surrender.


[ Parent ]
Exactly, as I said above, this is both a step forward and a compromise. (4.00 / 1)
As always it will be in the details.

But I hope we begin selling these as

"please dont throw me into that briar patch"

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
The question for me (0.00 / 0)
Is whether Mike Ross is the exception or the rule. Some conservatives do these one-off things like Lugar and Obama on nuclear non-proliferation or Ron Paul and Alan Grayson on the Fed. I'm not sure if Ross' views are echoed throughout the Blue Dog caucus.

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I Agree, But (4.00 / 4)
the trick is not simply waiting to find out, but asking how this can be leveraged with other conservadems.

This is actually illustrative of a much wider phenomena--the "fiscal conservatism" of the Blue Dogs is often as not entirely illusory.  So if you can get them to actually focus on least-cost approaches, the result is often more liberal... 'cause of that old well-known liberal bias that reality has.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Medicare for All! (4.00 / 7)
I thought Medicare for all is where John Conyers and progressives started out in this fiasco.  Then they changed the "word" Medicare to single payer in order to calm the mass hysteria over such a daring and socialist idea.  And then when the words "single payer" got too hot for Obama and the Democrats to handle, single payer got rephrased into the what the hell does it mean "the public option".  

Medicare for all is where this thing started.  Everybody in and everybody pays something with the program mostly financed by a tax on the top 1% and large corporations.
Insurance companies can still sell supplmental and designer health insurance.   It is the old, warm and familiar current Medicare system.   The only change would be to enroll all Americans.   It is obviously the fastest, cheapest, and most common sense approach to delivering national health care.  Why reinvent the wheel and then try to figure out what the hell to name it.  If they took health care off the backs of the people and the economy, it would be the biggest stimulus in the world.  Schools, local governments, small business, and even large corporations like GM would become immediately solvent and more globally competitive.  

This is not rocket science.  No wonder this country is in the mess it is.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


there are too many people (4.00 / 1)
who get insurance from their job, who don't want to give it up. Even if what they get is better than what they give up, they're going to hesitate at the idea of being forced. to give it up by the government.

They're easy prey for the demagoguery of the right and the insurance companies. Because it will take a long time to explain what it means to them and why they have nothing to fear.

The best thing single-payer advocates can do now is try to educate people about what it means, what it is, and why it's better than what we've got. Then if things get worse, maybe there will be real pressure for reform.


[ Parent ]
And elect more Medicare for All advocates to Congress (0.00 / 0)
I think we as the liberal community need to start applying a kind of litmus test in Democratic primaries: no support for anyone who would automatically be against Medicare for All.

[ Parent ]
Who cares! (4.00 / 1)
Many of us don't want to give up our money to pay for wars, salaries and benefits for asses in Washington, tax cuts for the rich, and a long list of other things.  They don't care how the hell we feel about that.

Polls show people want reform, and the closer it gets to Medicare for all, the higher the support; AND they don't give a leap about that.  No, all the arguments against reform are distractions from the fact that they are bought and paid for by pharma, insurance, and Golden Sacks.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
Mike Ross: "Let me be clear: I do not endorse this idea" (0.00 / 0)
http://thehill.com/homenews/ho...

, as it was just one of many ideas we, as legislators, have brought up and discussed in the numerous, ongoing negotiations and discussions we have had on healthcare reform over the past several months."

We are down to the wire and he is proposing an idea he doesn't even support, one that I suspect he knows poses no serious threat of being enacted, as "progressives" like Waxman, in addition to the Blue Dogs, are against it:

"The idea of a public option was to provide competition, but opening up Medicare would be the precursor to single-payer," said House Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.). "This may be an issue of semantics, but it would be very difficult to implement."

A great quote from a Democratic aide:

"Why have this huge, divisive fight trying to pass a public option when you could pretty much do the same thing if you just added Medicare to the list of options in the exchange?" said a Democratic aide. "And the fight would be way less controversial."

Why, indeed.

Ross also says, for the idea he does not endorse, that Medicare reimbursement rates would have to be "much greater," though he doesn't say by how much. Maybe just enough to sink it.

I suspect Ross is trying to deflect some of the heat he's getting from the left. Seems to be working.


Yeah, Mike Ross is a terrible example to use (4.00 / 1)
because he obviously didn't mean what he said, and I don't think he even knows what he's doing.

Ross's thought process: "Hmm, I don't like this idea, but I'm gonna throw it out anyway, and then shoot it down, even though that might get some lefty bloggers on OpenLeft super excited over nothing."

And then: "Hmm, I hated the PO because it's government-run, but instead I'm gonna throw out an idea that's even MORE government-run, and say that's better.  Wait, is Medicare government-run?  I thought it was, but I keep hearing these ignoramuses at town halls saying it isn't..."


[ Parent ]
everyone be very very quiet :) (4.00 / 3)
access to medicare is definitely extremely moderate.

i will loudly denounce it as too conservative (4.00 / 4)
if that would help

not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.

[ Parent ]
medicare (4.00 / 3)
the perfectly good public option we have - Medicare

medicare is NOT a public option. it is based on the single payer model.

i'm sure you didn't mean to do contribute to the year long conflation of a public option with single payer and medicare, but i've od'ed on it and i'm going to call bullshit where ever i see it.

please mike, if you care about moving to single payer at some point down the road, please don't destroy the branding with an experimental po that may fail.

thank you for giving me a listen.


No, it's a public option in the same way public school is a public option (4.00 / 1)
don't muddle this concept:

Single Payer = all medicine is administered by the government.

Public option = the government offers a "competing" service in a roughly free-market.

Re: public schools: if all education was run by the gov, that's Single Payer.

Now you can chose public or private schools as you can afford and see fit: a public option.


[ Parent ]
is this irony? (4.00 / 1)
Single Payer = all medicine is administered by the government.

it sounds like you are thinking of something like the NHS. "single payer" means there is one entity that pays (thus the name). it does what insurance companies do now. who doctors work for, who owns hospitals, all of that, doesn't change. only where they send the bill.

there are people who would like to portray that as a "total government takeover of medicine" but they say the same thing about the not-yet-plans being proposed now and they said the same things about Medicare, so one might think their motivation lies elsewhere...

not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.


[ Parent ]
Single-Payer National Health Insurance (4.00 / 1)
guess i should have linked to this:

Single-Payer National Health Insurance

Single-payer national health insurance is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health financing, but delivery of care remains largely private.

lots more info at the link.


[ Parent ]
Medicare is a single-payer system (4.00 / 3)
The whole point is that you're automatically enrolled if you're eligible. You can't opt out of the system without some kind of penalty (at least for Parts A and B). That's what made it viable in the first place and forced the risk to be pooled evenly.

If you open it up and allow people to optionally buy in, that changes its nature. It is no longer a single-payer system and you open it up to competition with private insurers. That's a competition the government will lose, because the private insurers will cherry-pick the healthiest and wealthiest and dump the sick and poor onto the government rolls, breaking the system.

A real extension of Medicare would be to simply lower the age of eligibility to 50 instead of 65 and auto-enroll all those new constituents.

But in America, the free market is sacred and there are too many people who get their insurance through their employer who will be reluctant to give it up, even if they're paying through the nose for it.

Bottom line is the only viable solution is single-payer, and we're not getting it until things are much worse.

It took a Great Depression to get us Social Security; why should we expect health care to be any easier?  


how to destroy the single payer system we have (4.00 / 3)
If you open it up and allow people to optionally buy in, that changes its nature. It is no longer a single-payer system and you open it up to competition with private insurers. That's a competition the government will lose, because the private insurers will cherry-pick the healthiest and wealthiest and dump the sick and poor onto the government rolls, breaking the system.

A real extension of Medicare would be to simply lower the age of eligibility to 50 instead of 65 and auto-enroll all those new constituents.

exactly right.

i was just telling someone i (perhaps naively) hope for the day when people like mike and chris (and jane hamsher) who know the dee cee politics will get together with the people who know the policy (single payer activists like pnhp).

otherwise we're going to continue to have great political strategy in support of sucky policy. and great policy which could use some political help.


[ Parent ]
so, if I understand you correctly (0.00 / 0)
doing what ross does says, will be bad for medicare who will get the sick, and good for the insurance industry?


[ Parent ]
depends on the supporting regulation, but answer is "yes" (4.00 / 3)
doing what ross does says, will be bad for medicare who will get the sick, and good for the insurance industry?

yup. unless we have very strong regulations and enforcement, including excellent risk adjustment. but that's not going to happen (ie it's less likely than getting hr 676 this year). and not just because mr. larry no-regulation summers is in charge of the current administration's economic team. it's also because regulations are written and enforcement decisions are made behind closed doors where the lobbyists are strongest. as bad as our legislative process is, at least we can watch some of it (including the roll call votes), and attempt to take some action towards accountability.

medicare is already in trouble (cost wise and privatization wise - see for example medicare advantage, part D, etc). fuck it up too much and it may very well break. testing an unproven idea that has never been successful in the usa (po in a weakly regulated multi payer system) is not worth the risk to medicare.

medicare need fixing. not weakening.


[ Parent ]
that's mike ross (4.00 / 2)
a corporate prostitute...

[ Parent ]
Forgive me, but I thought the health care bill says no cherry-picking (0.00 / 0)
or am I naive to assume that these new insurance regulations will actually have any value?

[ Parent ]
cherry picking is very hard to regulate (4.00 / 1)
i wouldn't go so far as to say "NO" value. just unlikely to be enough. risk adjustment for adverse selection is the way to try to compensate for all the sneaky ways insurance companies have learned to "compete." in a weakly regulated health insurance market (and i'm talking anything less than maybe swiss level of regulation) competition can become a race to the bottom (there are some other ways to try to prevent this which hacker incorporated in his earlier proposal).

for more background on this see these diaries at fdl by scarecrow (who has a different take than me, but explains things better than i ever could):

http://seminal.firedoglake.com...
http://seminal.firedoglake.com...


[ Parent ]
But cherry picking only works (0.00 / 0)
if you can gouge. They will lose their power to gouge if they have to compete with a public option.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Well it sounds like cherry picking will be much harder (0.00 / 0)
meaning that, maybe it won't be so easy for private insurers to dump all the sick and poor into the public plan.

[ Parent ]
Which is why I said, (4.00 / 1)
everybody in and everybody pays......    No cherry picking.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
That makes no sense. (0.00 / 0)
Why would the healthy choose to pay more for crappy private insurance?

My family has spent tens of thousands of dollars on insurance for years. Do you know how much healthcare we have used? Little to none. We are healthy, and would take a public option tomorrow if it we could.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
think of it this way: (0.00 / 0)
the public option means that the government will be getting into the insurance business, into direct competition with private insurers like Wellpoint.

To be competitive, they'll have to have a huge customer base, otherwise they won't be able to pool the risk sufficiently to lower costs. (The "public options" being proposed in Congress cover 5% or less of the populace). They'll have to pay for advertising and marketing, just like private insurers, and open up new centers to offer this public option.

Private insurers will use whatever means are at their disposal to force out their sickest and poorest customers, flooding the market and dumping them onto the public option. Thus, in order to keep costs down, the government will be forced to exclude them, just as private insurers now do.

The only way to avoid that is to make sure that enough younger and healthier people buy the public option. The assumption is that the market is 100% efficient and will instantly push enough people into the public option.

But that's by no means guaranteed. You have people who are young and who don't bother to buy health insurance. You have people who get their insurance from their employer and don't want to risk switching to a public plan. You have rich people to whom money is no object, who either pay out of pocket or who buy private plans and see no need to switch to the public plan.

It could take years before enough of these people switch to the public option--if ever. So there's no guarantee the public option would be able to lower costs quickly.

Meanwhile, the media and the GOP will continually demagogue against the cost of the public option, how it's bankrupting us, that it's intrusive big government, etc.

In those circumstances, the public option could end up failing to contain costs and might end up failing altogether.

The implicit free-market argument behind the public option is this: if the government really is so much more effective, it should be able to beat private insurers at their own game, in market competition.

But that's a trap. If market competition worked for health care, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. The answer isn't to put the government into the market, but to take health insurance out of the market entirely.


[ Parent ]
Not Likely (0.00 / 0)
As you've probably noticed, Medicare currently only covers people 65 years and older.  That is a group insurers already rejected.  It would be extremely difficult for cherry picking to be so successful that this pool was made higher risk than it currently is.

[ Parent ]
wrong comparison (4.00 / 2)
no, the issue is cherry picking within the under 65 population. that is the competition that medicare will lose (with the private insurers).

so, if the trial of a po in a multi payer system in a weakly regulated market crashes and burns (*) it won't take medicare down with it. if you must experiment with this model of health care financing, please leave medicare out of it.

* note: which imo is not unlikely. it's really stupid policy wise -- it's never worked in the usa before. i have no idea why anyone would think it might work now unless it was the original hacker proposal and we could trust this and future administrations to regulate the insurance industry very very strongly (iow, when pigs fly).


[ Parent ]
The trouble is (0.00 / 0)
what if a PO will crash and burn, unless it's part of Medicare?

[ Parent ]
Astonishing (0.00 / 1)
... just open up the perfectly good public option we have - Medicare - to anyone who wants to buy into it.

That would be the same Medicare that is, um, so fiscally unsustainable that it's set to go bankrupt in as few as 9 years?  The same Medicare that when it was passed in 1965 was expected by Congress to cost $3.1 billion in 1970 and then came in at $6.8 billion?  The same Medicare that House Ways and Means analysts estimated in 1967 would cost $12 billion in 1990, and which ultimately came in at a cool $110 billion?

How a belief in the 'reform' fancied by progressives can even exist, much less find itself in command authority of America is beyond comprehension.

Thanks for the right-wing talking points (4.00 / 6)
As numerous people have pointed out, Medicare costs have grown slower than private sector costs.  If private companies didn't rig the system and leave the sick and poor to die they'd be going bankrupt too.

[ Parent ]
Oh noes! (4.00 / 5)
After twenty-three years of inflation, rises in the cost of living, advances in medical technology, people living longer, and various other social changes, who knew that the cost of health care might go up? I thought those budget projections would be good at least until the year 5000!

Of course, one could always look at facts:

In 1999 U.S. private insurers retained $46.9 billion of the $401.2 billion they collected in premiums. Their average overhead (11.7 percent) exceeded that of Medicare (3.6 percent) and Medicaid (6.8 percent).

But, of course, that would not square with Reaganite dogma about the supremacy of the so-called free market, ergo must be disregarded.


[ Parent ]
Mike Ross on the Medicare "option" (0.00 / 0)
from the linked article in The Hill:

"His statement went on to say that he does 'not support a government-run public option' and he does 'not endorse this idea' of opening up Medicare. He said he is looking for solutions in the healthcare debate."

"'Let me be clear,' Ross said in his statement, 'I do not endorse this idea, as it was just one of many ideas we, as legislators, have brought up and discussed in the numerous, ongoing negotiations and discussions we have had on healthcare reform over the past several months.'"


WTF, why are you validating the sell out LIES of (0.00 / 0)
sell outs?

WHY the fuck are we piddling around pissing our pants about compromising with 5 or 7 sell outs?

how about making their life sooooooooooooooooooooo miserable they'd NEVER EVER consider selling us out again,

OR... LOMG!

shit! I forgot! dud-crap-kis! kerry! gore! clinton! tip o'neil cutting financial aid to bloat the deficit to let rich UNDESERVING pigs keep more of what they undeservingly stole ...

I forgot we live in a universe bounded by and defined by diaper shitting pathetic sell outs, AND, political fucking cowards, both fo whom are always negotiating away their 1/3 of loaf before they get into the room to negotiate away the other 1/2.

thanks for hte blast of 1994 reality from the axis of evil --- from - mcaulife - rahm.

rmm.  

It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way


If you mean real conservatives, yes. (0.00 / 0)
For instance,  one can readily merge free-market principles with the welfare state.

The gov does not administer anything, it merely sends every American an equal check and they choose how they wish to spend the money in a free market.

Did you know that it would be cheaper to send every man, woman and child a $10,000 check each year then it would be to run the current make-work welfare state?

If you want the money to be used for specific purposes (e.g. medicine) you use vouchers, or set up separate accounts using debit cards, etc.

The current inanity is the price we pay for colluding in the manichaean division of society.

(Ergo the collusion is not moral, it's immoral!)


re: check (0.00 / 0)
Did you know that it would be cheaper to send every man, woman and child a $10,000 check each year then it would be to run the current make-work welfare state?

don't some situations need more than $10,000 and some less than $10,000?

[ Parent ]
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