Insulting Swing Voters

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 15:15


It never ceases to amaze me how much politicians bend over backward to appeal to moderate swing voters, while simultaneously attempting to appeal to third-party swing votes through insults and lies. Case in point, take the latest missive from New York Representative Peter King to conservatives considering voting for right-wing third party candidate Doug Hoffman in the NY-23 special election:

In a statement, King made the case that voting for Hoffman will only help Democrat Bill Owens win.

"Dede is the only Republican candidate in this race, and the only candidate with a proven record that Republicans can trust in Washington," King said. "A vote for either of her opponents is a vote for Nancy Pelosi and her far-left, radical agenda."

Statements like these, whether they are made by Republicans or by Democrats, are loathsome pieces of political arrogance.

  1. It is a lie. Voting for a conservative third party is simply not the same thing as voting for a Democrat, just as voting for progressive third party is not the same as voting for a Republican.  Rather, voting for a third party has the same effect on the overall outcome as not voting (except in the unlikely event that a third-party actually has a realistic chance to win, in which case voting for a third party would be exactly like voting for a third party).

    No matter what happens, voting for a third party is never the same thing as voting for the opposing major party candidate, since a vote like that actually adds one to the column of the opposing major party. But I guess Democrats and Republicans alike think that people considering voting for third-parties are too stupid to grasp this fairly obvious fact, and so they just lie to those voters instead.

  2. People considering voting for third-parties are swing voters, too. I simply don't understand why swing voters who regularly flip between Democrats and Republicans receive fawning attention from politicians, while swing voters who regularly flip between third parties and major parties are overtly insulted by those same politicians. It's true that voters who oscillate between third parties and one major party are only half as valuable as swing voters who oscillate between the two major parties, but they are still swing voters none the less.

    Neither the liberal nor the conservative vote is static, and changes in those voters can cause candidates to win or lose elections. Fully one-quarter of the electorate thinks that either Democrats are too conservative or Republicans are too liberal, beliefs that can often cause them to stay home or vote third party. As such, politicians might actually try to win those voters over, instead of insulting them by grouping them in with their ideological antipodes.

  3. Its arrogant. The implication whenever politicians send out missives like these is that the votes of ideological die-hards are the permanent, lifelong property of one political party or the other no matter what that political party does in office. Its flagrant, anti-democratic arrogance from elected officials who are effectively telling their constituents to STFU and do as they are told. Which is, of course, the opposite of democracy.
I haven't voted for a third party is quite some time, and have no plans to do so anytime soon. However, it is still disturbing to me that swing voters who oscillate between one major party and third-parties are treated with such insulting, arrogant, and downright false missives from many elected officials. Whenever I see language like this, I hope that a strong third-party vote ends up costing the major party issuing the language the election in question.

People who oscillate between the two major parties, between voting and not voting, or between voting for one major party and a third party, are all swing voters. If you want to win elections, you need all of these groups to break your way. As such, I don't see how insulting and being dismissive to any of these groups is a particularly good electoral strategy, or particularly good for democracy. Big donors and the mushy, uninformed middle should not be the only groups of voters to whom elected officials are accountable.

Chris Bowers :: Insulting Swing Voters

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I do have to ask (0.00 / 0)
I'm not sure how King's quote "overtly" (or otherwise) insults voters.



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


This may be off topic (4.00 / 1)
but your observation that third party folk are also swing voters reminded me of the night of the Bush victory over Gore.

I was coming back from duty at the polls thinking "Why in fuck did the Greens just knee cap what would have been the most Green president we may ever have?"

Then I had a searing epiphany: mental illness.

If you want to look for an overarching explanation of the awful things in our society look no further.

Why is it so pandemic?

Man, evolving for eons in what we style "nature" is not as adapted to civilization, even after 10,000 years.

That state of adaptation to ones environment is health.

Maladpation is illness.

Since man is not sufficiently flexible in his nature, we have to adjust the environment and society as well to achieve a good match between the three. This is the basis of "Activist" government.

Opposition to some level of "activism" in theory or practice is fulminant id; it is sickness and a palpable threat.


That's The Optimistic View (4.00 / 1)
the pessimistic view is that we, the human race, are the illness.

I'm an optimist, myself.  Enough so that I think it helps to be aware of the pessimistic view as well.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
There's not a lot of evidence gore would've been the greenest president (4.00 / 3)
Clinton-gore certainly were not. He's pretty green now, but he's an activist and not a politician.

[ Parent ]
if only (4.00 / 1)
he had written a book like "Earth in the Balance" before the election.  

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

[ Parent ]
agreed (4.00 / 2)
The leftier-than-thou types have never been able to see how radical that book is.

A Global Marshall Plan for repairing environmental damage, sustainable economic development, and establishing the global economic and political systems necessary to accomplish this.

The powers that run this country did read the book, and understood what it meant. That when Gore proposed a plan to replace the internal combustion engine, he wasn't just pulling it out of his ass. He meant that he had consulted with engineers, scientists, and economists, and worked out how it could be done policy-wise. That was a threat to their comfortable status quo.

That's why he was forced out of the presidency. Nothing is more dangerous to established power than a man of ideas. And that, first and foremost, is what Gore is.


[ Parent ]
"Leftier-than-thou?" (0.00 / 0)
I see I've hit a nerve.  (Well, I and some of the other commentators in this thread have.)  In my experience, those who drag out the "purity troll" and "leftier-than-thou" insults are really angry at themselves for having tossed their principles out the window while we on the left never gave ours up.



[ Parent ]
your explanation for why people voted for the green party was mental illness? (4.00 / 6)
i would have thought that not having an incumbent president, the momentum of the protests of the 1990s, and the democratic party's turn to the right would have been enough.

on an aside, the argument that the green party 'kneecapped' al gore's candidacy is simply incorrect, it's a lie designed to divide liberals from radicals when we are on many issues on the same side.


[ Parent ]
I didn't vote green, but was tempted because al gore (4.00 / 3)
had dropped national health insurance from his agenda.  Greens are just about the environment.  Also Gore was running on Clinton's record, which was very lackluster.  He has only become green in the past five years.

[ Parent ]
sorry (4.00 / 2)
greens aren't just about the environment.

[ Parent ]
Uh, "Gore was running on Clinton's record"? Quite to the contrary... (0.00 / 0)
..he went to great lengths to distance himself from the president! And I think, maybe too great lengths.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Wow, with talk like that... (4.00 / 4)
...it's no wonder left-wing voters are turned off by Democrats.  We have serious issues with the increasingly rightward shift in the party overall, and your only response is to call us crazy.  Thanks, condescension-boy, but thanks for proving the truth of Mr. Bowers' words.



[ Parent ]
Don't presume to speak for anyone else (0.00 / 1)
You are crazy. Other voters may have different reasons for what they do, but not you. You're crazy. Full stop. Please get professional help.

[ Parent ]
Come on, NR, Mike only restated Paul's argument in a more casual way. (0.00 / 0)
And even though I don't think that's what Goodman really meant to say, it's a possible interpretation. You on the other hand, directly attack not what Mike says, but him personally. Sry, but imho that's not being "excellent to each other", but quite the contrary. Pls point out the "different reasons" other voters have, but don't speculate about Mike's mental state of mind.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
I don't have to speculate (0.00 / 1)
I know he's crazy. His comments here have provided the proof. See here, for example.

This guy needs the care of a competent psychiatric professional, and he needs it NOW.


[ Parent ]
Are you "a competent psychiatric professional"? (4.00 / 1)
If not, pls refrain from providing such a diagnosis. I don't like some of Mike's opinions either, but I don't think he's  crazy. Just brimming with anger.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
People who use accusations of mental illness (4.00 / 4)
in place of political analysis are likely unqualified to do either one.

I still don't understand why so many people think that Gore and the Democrats bear no responsibility for their failure to get enough votes. It's their job - and they did it poorly. (Not getting enough votes includes getting such a narrow majority that it allowed for Republican monkey business to effect the outcome.)

If you want to look for an overarching explanation of the awful things in our society look no further.

Blaming relatively powerless people for the ills of society is no better coming from a Democratic perspective than it is coming from a Republican one.  

Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


[ Parent ]
While I'm not happy about the way Goodman made his point... (0.00 / 0)
..I don't see him saying that "that Gore and the Democrats bear no responsibility for their failure to get enough votes". Certainly there were failures, maybe even dire failures. But hindsight is 20/20, and there's no such thing as a perfect camapign. And we shouldn't forget the obvious prejudice the media held and spread about Gore. Imho that outweighs every possible improvement of his campaign. And then, the effing election was stolen in the first place, not only because of the Supreme Court coup d'etat, but because of the significant voter disenfrachisement! It isn't as if Gore really lost it.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Sure, but I didn't say they didn't run a perfect campaign (0.00 / 0)
I said they ran a poor one. No hindsight needed - plenty of people said the same thing back then. I don't discount any of the hurdles the Gore campaign faced - nor would I suggest that it was fair - but they still handled it poorly. Most importantly, the public overwhelmingly agreed with Gore's positions, but his campaign downplayed those areas of disagreement where their position was most popular.  That was foolish.

I guess "no responsibility" might be going too far, but "overarching responsibility" certainly downplays the responsibility of the campaign. And I'm not sure the mental illness thing was just a rhetorical flourish - it was the main point.

Who are the best keepers of the people's liberties? The people themselves. The sacred trust can be no where so safe as in the hands most interested in preserving it.
James Madison


[ Parent ]
Paul, this is quite misleading. Come on, "mental illness"? (0.00 / 0)
This really sounds like you're painting Green folks as crazy. I guess this wasn't intended, since you point out that mankind in general isn't really mentally prepared for civilization. But you shouldn't be surprised that yr way of phrasing that rubbed some here in the wrong way.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Big Donors Routinely Give To Both Sides--Few Lectures There (4.00 / 3)
but for voters, only lockstep loyalty will do.

Double-standard much?

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


thanks for this post (4.00 / 1)
it is nice for at least one person to recognise that we exist :)  

one quibble - where there is fusion voting as in NY a vote for a smaller party can be (and often is) a vote for one of the two larger parties as well as for the minor party.  

So how you measure the impact of a third party vote will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as well as from the context of particular elections (voting for a smaller Party in an election in which the Democratic candidate is winning by 20+ poitns is certainly different from voting for a smaller party in which the Democratic candidate is approx. tied).  


IRV voting would solve this (4.00 / 1)


You're only half right on Point Number One. (4.00 / 1)
Voting for a conservative third party is simply not the same thing as voting for a Democrat, just as voting for progressive third party is not the same as voting for a Republican.

This is true, absolutely spot on.  Where you stumble is in claiming this:

Rather, voting for a third party has the same effect on the overall outcome as not voting.

Actually, no it doesn't have that effect at all.  The two identical acts are not voting, and voting for a major party candidate you don't believe in simply because you believe the lie being told to you that voting third party helps the opposing major one.  Either decision signals to the established power structure that regardless of how disgusted you are with the current system, you are perfectly content to leave it alone, indeed, to assist in its continuation - with your display of apathy or your acquiescence to said establishment.

Voting third party, however, does have an effect: it is a way of registering, using the power of your ballot, your dissatisfaction with the system and what positions major party candidates must adopt if they want your vote.



perhaps (0.00 / 0)
But since far more people don't vote than vote third party, you'd be better off claiming otherwise, right?


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

[ Parent ]
Huh? (0.00 / 0)
I'm not sure I understand what it is you're suggesting.



[ Parent ]
Well, it's sending a signal, but it's also producing a negative result... (0.00 / 0)
..insofar as that the third party voter isn't influencing the outcome of the race in any way (only as long as the third party isn't strong enough, of course). So, the decision rests on the voters for the other parties, and the third party guy accepts that the candidate who is the bigger of the two evils may win.

So, the question is, does sending a signal outweigh these possibly negative consequences? Hmm...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


[ Parent ]
I don't agree that it is the same thing as not (4.00 / 2)
voting, since people who don't vote might just be apathetic voters who don't care.  Third party voters at least care enough to have their vote counted.  

Third party lefties need to vote more strategically though, and just target bad dems, as opposed to all, which is what the greens tried to do.


The Greens also suffer, according to Nader, from personal conflicts that hinder efforts. (4.00 / 1)
Check out the Progressives and Working Families Parties in Vermont and New York. They've employed some very smart strategies in their respective states, and they're at the point now where they've begun to get enough power to affect the two major ones, make them take notice.  



[ Parent ]
Yes, but I don't live in a fusion ticket state. (4.00 / 1)
unfortunately.

[ Parent ]
Ok, the 3rd party vote count reduces the legitimacy of the winner. (0.00 / 0)
In a "winner takes it all system", the public perception ofd the scale of victory still has an impact. And while most often the non-voters will be totally ignored, the third party voters at least reduce the size of the "mandate" of the victor. You can't claim broad publicsupport if you won only with 40% of the vote! I mean, ok, you can. but this brazenness would be very rethuglican...

So, ok, in this way, third party votes have an impact. But does this outweigh the negative consequences of allowing the worst candidate to win by dividing the left wing vote???

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter


[ Parent ]
Bush didn't need a mandate! (0.00 / 0)
and did quite a lot.   The dems are so far to the right I rrealy don't think the damage is pretty insignificant.  I fell for your argument in 2000, and voted Gore, but Obama has been so pathetic that the greens have been proven to be correct.

[ Parent ]
In answer to your question: (4.00 / 4)
it is still disturbing to me that swing voters who oscillate between one major party and third-parties are treated with such insulting, arrogant, and downright false missives from many elected officials.

Building on my earlier comment in this thread, it seems quite obvious that the reason for this disdain has to do with something you touched on in your blog entry: an unearned sense of entitlement to certain blocs of voters.  We who grew so fed up with increasingly right-wing Democrats represent a bloc of voters that, as you said, can and often do have disastrous consequences for the major party that ignores us.  Consider the 1912 presidential election, the last time a progressive political party actually made an impact on such a spectacle (Nader's paltry percentage was never responsible for throwing the 2000 election to the shrub and his gargoyle - for that, blame the vermin actually responsible, namely, Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, ChoicePoint DBT, Fox Noise, the SCOTUS, and the piss-poor Gore campaign).  By ignoring its then-progressive base, the Republicans alienated half their party and cost themselves the election.  Progressives either went with their namesake political party or to the Democrats, creating a lasting shift in the political makeup of the two major organizations.

I imagine the rhetoric by conservative Republicans against their progressive counterparts within the party was much the same as it is today within the Democratic Party, with similar off-putting effects.  Instead of actually trying to make a case that their right-wing candidates are preferable to left-wing ones, Democrats have been playing the entitlement card, correctly assuming that no matter how many times they piss on the base, we'll always come crawling back, because what other options do we have?  Never mind that much of the reason for this lack of options has to do with active third-party suppression by Democrats, such as getting third party challengers thrown off ballots and deliberately excluding primary challengers from debates if those challengers are left-wingers.

Where does this sense of entitlement come from, especially considering that Democrats stopped earning progressive support a long time ago?    This is just a guess, but I venture that it stems from having shifted to the right while failing to recognize that the base never did.  The assumption was that as the party moved, the base would follow, but this hasn't happened.  It's the movement-as-extension-of-party effect that Mr. Sirota wrote about.  As a result, whenever grumbling from the base becomes loud enough to attract attention, the feeling is one of betrayal for weakening support, instead of serious consideration that perhaps the party has abandoned its stated principles and that it must return to them.



Nader did spoil (4.00 / 2)
Gore in New Hampshire and his voters would have made the difference in Florida.   I say we create a new party and use spoiler strategically against bad dems.  I argued this the other day in my diary, but no one seems to have read it.  The problem I had with the greens is that they just refused to recognize they couldn't win, and refused to not run against good democrats like Paul Wellstone.

I think a third party should spoil Harry Reid, and Max Bauchus, and some other bad dems like Blanch Lincoln.  I believe in the spoiler affect and I don't think third parties can win, but we can be used to purify the major parties of bad elements.


[ Parent ]
Nader's voters didn't cost Gore Florida. (0.00 / 0)
Exit polls showed that only about half of his voters would have cast ballots for Gore.  The rest would either have stayed home or voted for some other candidate.  And no one seems to want to blame the 200,000 to 250,000 registered Floridian Democrats who deliberately voted for Bush in 2000.  They surely had far more of an impact than Nader's tiny percentage.



[ Parent ]
97000 >> 600 (4.00 / 5)
Half of Nader's 97000 votes in Florida would have been plenty, plenty, plenty, to get Gore elected. One percent would have been enough. If Nader hadn't run, Gore would have been President.

[ Parent ]
If Nader hand't run, Gore still would have been cheated of his victory. (4.00 / 2)
Remember: it was vote fraud, an illegal SCOTUS ruling, Republican-voting Democrats, and a poor campaign by Gore that cost Gore the election.  All the whining over voters who were never going to vote for either candidate anyway isn't going to make that any less true.  a quarter million voters for Bush, give or take, still outweighs by far the Nader votes, by more than double.



[ Parent ]
really? (0.00 / 0)
You've never heard a discussion of conservative Southern Democrats who vote Republican in Presidential election? No one ever mentioned it? Really?


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

[ Parent ]
The sour-grapes Dems don't blame them, no. (0.00 / 0)
Some months ago I was treated to several rounds of bile from some lying little party suck-up (on my own forum, no less) that it was perfectly acceptable for those Dixiecrats to vote for Bush because at least their ballots went to someone with a chance of winning.  So his baloney was essentially summed up in the argument that if we on the left aren't voting for right-wing Democrats, we'd damned well better be casting our ballots for even more-right-wing Republicans.

Try to imagine the sheer idiocy, rank dishonesty, and arrogance inherent in this.  Rather than assign a great deal of blame where it rightfully belongs, namely, with GOP-voting Democrats, we're supposed to believe that Ralph Nader with his tiny sliver of votes somehow overcame Republican election-rigging, illegal court rulings, and incompetence on the part of the Democrats to single-handedly throw the election to the shrub.  I mean, what the hell?  How stupid do you people think we are?  We on the left aren't allowed to vote our principles?  We're not allowed to express our dissatisfaction?  We're just mindless vermin obligated to throw our ballots away on candidates who don't represent us and never will, and if the GOP steals elections and the Democrats help them do it, it's somehow our fault?

Oh no no no no no no no no no, motherf***ers, it's the fault of right-wing Democrats and election-stealing Republicans when Democrats lose.  Blaming us on the left for Democratic failures and capitulations isn't flying.  You right-wingers and sell-outs want someone to blame for your losses?  Look in the mirror.  Piss all over your base and watch us leave.

(By the way, this isn't directed at you, personally, so much as it is all the Nader-haters who still lie to themselves and us and make sour-grapes excuses for not doing better.)



[ Parent ]
Uncounted votes (4.00 / 2)
The biggest reason Gore was not "the winner" in Florida is that IIRC 200,000 votes were not counted, about half of them from blacks.

The second biggest reason was that votes from 38,000 improperly registered Republicans were counted because the A******* judge couldn't figure out a proper remedy (like deducting 20,000 votes from Bush and awarding Gore Florida.

Then there was Nader.

Then there was the Brooks Brothers riot in Miami that prevented votes from being counted.

Then there was the SCTUS who blatantly over-rodew Florida law.

Then there were the 240 Haitians who could not vote because the ballots were only in English and Spanish.  That was also a blatant violation of Florida law.


[ Parent ]
I commented in your diary. :^) (4.00 / 2)
I wanted to be sure you'd get the links I provided.  But yeah, we really do need to purge the Democratic Party of its right-wingers.



[ Parent ]
Gotta agree (4.00 / 2)
All they do is weaken us and weaken the nation.

[ Parent ]
great post (4.00 / 1)
thanks chris, i especially liked this bit:

The implication whenever politicians send out missives like these is that the votes of ideological die-hards are the permanent, lifelong property of one political party or the other no matter what that political party does in office. Its flagrant, anti-democratic arrogance from elected officials who are effectively telling their constituents to STFU and do as they are told. Which is, of course, the opposite of democracy.

that woke up the populist in me!


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