Scozzafava is a Conservative Republican...In New York? Maybe, Maybe Not, But...

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Oct 25, 2009 at 08:30


Political scientist Boris Shor has a blog post premiering results from a forthcoming paper (pdf) where he goes to town mapping the ideological distribution of state legislators from 1996-2006.  The post is titled, provocatively, "Scozzafava is a Conservative Republican (in New York)", and his reasoning is fairly straightforward: although the right is so upset with Scozzafava for being far too liberal that they may well be handing NY 23 to a Democrat, they aren't looking at the context:

Despite the laundry list of liberal issue positions held by Scozzafava, my research with Princeton's Nolan McCarty on ideology in American state legislatures shows that the Assemblywoman is actually a conservative Republican. Wait for it. Wait for it... In New York.

Her ideological "common space" score is 0.02. These scores, similar but far superior to interest group ratings, put state legislators around the country on the same scale with each other, as well as with members of Congress. Liberals have lower scores; conservatives higher ones....

Scozzafava's score puts her in the 58th percentile of her party, which makes her slightly more conservative than the average Republican legislator in Albany, so she's a conservative in her party. For example, she's more conservative than James Tedisco, who lost a special election to succeed Kirsten Gillenbrand in the 20th District (score: -.22 and in the most liberal fifth of the party). In the legislature as a whole, she's in the 83rd percentile, which makes her a conservative in Albany in general

Here's his chart of all the partisan state legislatures (Nebraska is officially non-partisan):

However, in the comments someone manages to throw some serious water on the claim, given that it appears Scozzafava has shifted ideologically while in office--a relatively rare phenomena in politics.  So maybe the diary title is not really on the mark after all--but the larger point remains: there's an enormous difference in where Republicans and Democrats fall ideologically depending on the stat that they're from.  You can see it simply by noting the lack of overlap between the bulk of Democrats to the left of the left-hand vertical grey line in states like California, New York, Washington, Wisconsin and Utah, and the bulk of Democrats to the right of that same line in state like West Virginia, Nevada, South Carolina, Arkansas, etc.  A similar visual comparison can be made for Republicans as well.

Paul Rosenberg :: Scozzafava is a Conservative Republican...In New York? Maybe, Maybe Not, But...
There are actually two comments questioning the conclusion that I found particularly salient.  First:

David Ditch Says:
October 22, 2009 at 9:00 am

An interesting line of thinking, but the proper context is upstate politics/voting patterns, not New York State. Downstate is dark blue, while upstate (depending on where you draw the line) is either 50/50 or very very light blue. Upstate Republicans are almost never liberal, and upstate Democrats are more likely to be moderate. Scozzafava would make sense as a Republican running in Long Island or Westchester, but not in the Adirondacks.

And second:

Izengabe Says:

October 22, 2009 at 9:42 am

The problem with your ideological "common space" score is that it looks at the year 1996-2003. (In fact the Senator you mention as the most conservative Robert DiCarlo hasn't been in office since he lost re-election in 1996!)

A lot has changed since the years you look at.

Her years in Albany has moved Ms. Scozzafava to the left. In 2003 she got a 46 rating from the Conservative Party of NY (meaning she voted against them 54% of the time). By 2008 her Conservative Party rating was down to 15%. That 15% score is by the way is the same score they gave Rosie O'Donnell's brother Daniel O'Donnell in 2008.

For further comparison sake Assemblyman Tedisco got a 55% score, Sen Morahan who you called the most Liberal Republican got a 50% (although in fairness he is a Senator not an Assemblyman and not voting on the same bills as Ass. Scozzafava).

Why the drop? Why the move to the left? Well since 2003 Ms. Scozzafava has been willing to get into bed with organized labor and the Working Families Party. They endorsed her in 2004 and 2008. So stricky looking at her record from 6 years ago and saying she was a conservative is really not fair.

You need to look at where she is now and what she has voted for lately. She has voted for raising taxes, supported the stimulus bill, supports pro-card check and hasn't said a word about foreign policy (her web site doesn't even have a foreign policy section so we have no idea how she feels about Iraq, Afghanistan or the War on Terror).

To which the author replied:

bshor Says:
October 22, 2009 at 11:03 am

Izengabe - I wouldn't put too much stock in interest group ratings. They've got really well known problems that I explore in my latest paper draft.

But still, it's quite possible things have changed since 2003. Nearly all the time, politicians remain consistent in terms of issue positions, but some do change (party switchers especially - but getting crosslisted with a new party like the WFP might be similar). Luckily, we're getting new data on New York state through 2008 shortly, which I'll use to update this post.

My observation is that while Shor is certainly correct about interest group ratings, ideological parties are likely to be a more reliable indicator.  What's more the shift from being cross-endorsed by the Conservative Party to being cross-endorsed by the Working Families Party strikes me as pretty damn significant.  It's not the same as Jeffords leaving the GOP, but it's probably at least somewhat like that.

Still, this is hardly the main point of this post. Scozzafava is just a handy example for driving the main point home: we may be one nation, but there are still fifty state parties for both the Democrats and the Republicans, and those parties matter, no matter what anyone in Versailles may think.

How they matter is not always so well understood in Versailles, either, as Brian Leubitz notes over at Calitics ("Proof That California's Republicans Are Crazy"), writing:

Do you remember the 2008 primary, when all of the nation's media was in love with talking about how California's Republicans were sooooo liberal.  And remember how us Democrats here in California laughed at that notion? Well, here's some proof....

As you can see California's legislative Dems are amongst the most liberal, and are about the same as several other states that you'd expect to see us tied with: New York and Washington, and some that you wouldn't Utah and Arizona.  But to those who say that you'd expect California Republicans to be moderate: hear me now and believe me later: They are as wingnut as you get.

No other state is even close to our wingnut Republicans.  They are waaaay to the right of even states like Georgia and Wyoming. No other state is really even close.

This is really not news at all to Democratic activists in the state.  But a whole lot of other people have long been in denial about it.  I'm sure that 99% of them will stay that way. But at least we'll have a fancy graphic to rub their noses in.


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That's a great chart. (4.00 / 2)
The interesting thing for me right off is the amount of empty space in the center, notably in California. There you have a very liberal Democratic Party and a very conservative Republican Party, with seemingly no centrists at all in either party. Utah is the only other such state.

States with mostly moderates (almost all "inside the lines") are PA, NC, LA, RI, NV, WV and DE.

There are 18 all-moderate state Democratic parties, and 10  all-moderate state Republican parties.


Historical detritus (0.00 / 0)
The amazing thing to me is the degree to which the chart confirms so much of the analysis I've read here and elsewhere of how we got to be the way we are. For example, the rural-urban split which is so extreme in California is less so in New York, largely, one suspects, for cultural reasons. (No Okie immigrants in New York, for one thing, and no agribusiness or communities of military retirees to speak of for another.)

Whatever you make of it, it's a great meditative device, this chart, a kind of mandala of American political evolution. Even if it's proven wrong in some of its details, it's a wonderful thing to ponder. Leave it to Paul to dig up something like this. Synthetic thinkers are rare, but it's always a delight when you encounter one, especially when he's a mathematician as well as a DFH.


[ Parent ]
Except (4.00 / 1)
that some of the most conservative Republicans in California come from the urban and suburban enclaves of Orange County.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
True, but.... (0.00 / 0)
Many of them are connected to the defense industry or military in one way or another. Lompoc (Vandenberg) is another microcosm with similar values. Not only the military, but also agribusiness, and just to keep it juicy, there's a temperance colony and a Johns Manville plant in its history.

Being as you're a Californian, perhaps you remember the Lagomarsino/Huffington battle, or the recurring threats of secession from North Santa Barbara County. Recalling my years there, I almost feel like a resident of Baden-Württemburg recalling the Napoleonic era.


[ Parent ]
Isn't the California result just another indication of what is going on (0.00 / 0)
with that first comment in NY state?  Places like San Fransisco and LA County tend to be very, very left-wing, while places like Bakersfield skew extremely conservative?  

I never thought that it made much sense to have states like California, New York and Texas exist, really.  There is so much diversity of opinion and behaviour that it's hard for me to identify much common interest at all.  Not to mention that I think a lot of the way to short circuit the antidemocratic bullshit with the Senate would be to break up the bigger states.


California Is An Artifact (4.00 / 2)
The California GOP was not nearly so conservative as recently as the early 1990s.  There was a budget crisis back then, and it was solved by a mix of spending cuts and tax increases.  The state GOP was transformed via a tremendous influx of money from a small group of ultra-right multi-millionaires, who funded hard-right candidate in the State Senate and Assembly. Prior to that, the Republicans who emerged indigenously from those districts were generally conservative, but not insanely so.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
But still... (0.00 / 0)
California gave us Nixon and Reagan.  There is a long history of conservatism there.  

[ Parent ]
Nixon and Reagan (0.00 / 0)
By current standards Nixon was not so conservative.  Reagan was simply fairy tale fraudulence.  California Republicanism actually had a long history of liberalism or at least moderation.  Earl Warren, anyone?

[ Parent ]
Nixon and Reagan (4.00 / 1)
ran ideological campaigns.  But they were often quite pragmatic when it came to governing.  Reagan gladly raised taxes along with cutting services when he faced a budget crunch.

So the current state of the GOP legislators is definitely of recent vintage.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
yes, this is great (0.00 / 0)
it's a really interesting chart.  it generally fits with my preexisting sense of the states, (which could be wrong :) which makes the outliers more interesting: the CA Republicans you pointed out; UT democrats; etc.  What methodology was used that results in UT democratic legislators and AZ democratic legislators being understood as more progressive than VT or WI democratic legislators?

In case anyone is interested, a graph like this is extremely helpful in concert with social data.  For example, you can find Census Bureau measures of inequality and income by state here which it might be worthwhile to cross reference with this chart.  The data covers 1969,1979,1989,1999 so you can look now just at relatively recent social state, but also how it's changed.

There's lots of intersting stuff in it.  Interestingly, according to the data, Utah is one of the least unequal states by income distribution!  And of course you can see the vastly rising level of inequality from 1979 to 1999.  Can't wait to see the 2009 numbers ;)


Responses from the author (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for the thoughtful and kind post by Paul and comments by readers. A few responses:

1. I'll be getting roll call data on 2003-2008 in NY soon, so I can explore the "Scozzafava's changed" thesis. That being said, the available evidence in political science says that this is a very rare effect. See: http://voteview.ucsd.edu/chmin...

2. As Paul notes, the main point is to alert people to the fact that party labels mean very different things across states.

3. I explore these state-level differences, along with income inequality, in my book with coauthors, "Red State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State", found here: http://www.redbluerichpoor.com

4. Yes, I use roll call votes, but that's not enough. The reason is because different legislatures vote on different agendas, so you can't just compare those scores across states. So you need to put everything in a common scale, which is what I do using the Votesmart.org NPAT survey.


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