Reid Brushes Off Lieberman's Threat

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 16:01


Before today, sources had told me that Lieberman was not considered to be one of the top threats to vote against cloture on a health care bill with a public option.  Now, even despite Lieberman's threat to vote against cloture today, from the way Harry Reid is talking, it seems like the Senate leadership still doesn't consider Lieberman to be one of the main problems:

"Joe Lieberman is the least of Harry Reid's problems," Reid told reporters at his weekly press conference.

During a Q&A session with reporters, Reid offered a fairly spirited defense of Lieberman, signaling perhaps that he doesn't believe Lieberman will ultimately be an obstacle--or at least that he doesn't want to tip his hat: "I don't have anyone that I've worked harder with, have more respect for, in the Senate than Joe Lieberman. As you know, he's my friend. There are a lot of senators--Democrat and Republicans--who don't like [parts of this bill]... Sen. Lieberman will let us get on the bill, and he'll be involved in the amendment process."(...)

"We'll get it on the floor, we'll have an amendment process, and that's what we do," Reid said. "We haven't been doing a lot of it because we've had 81 objections so far this year by the Republicans."

I can think of three possibilities here:

  1. There is a deal with Reid and Lieberman to change the bill via amendments that is already in place.

  2. Reid is disappointed, but believes he can get Lieberman to fall in line by the time of the final cloture vote.

  3. Reid has been blindsided by Lieberman, but he is sticking to talking points that reflect the earlier estimate that Lieberman was not one of the main problems.
This is all very speculative, of course. One thing that is not speculative is that we are going to have to find a way to pressure Lieberman hard as a result of this statement. Any suggestions?
Chris Bowers :: Reid Brushes Off Lieberman's Threat

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Reid Brushes Off Lieberman's Threat | 50 comments
It would be nice to get a stronger statement from the WH (4.00 / 9)
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c...

Gibbs:

I think Democrats and Republicans alike will be held accountable by their constituents who want to see health care reform enacted this year.

Constituents?  They should be sending the message that the Democratic caucus will hold their members accountable if they don't at least vote for cloture on the bill.

That's the problem... (4.00 / 2)
I just don't think that Senators with a 6 year term with more than 2 years left really care what their constituents think.
[ Parent ]
i meant that the leaders of the democratic caucus (4.00 / 5)
in the senate should be sending the message that Lieberman, if he does filibuster, will at least be stripped of his committee chairmanship.
[ Parent ]
Especially since the word around town (4.00 / 2)
is Lieberman is not going to run for reelection and has AIPAC lobbyist jobs lined up.  
[ Parent ]
Vote against cloture = lose his chair (4.00 / 2)
If he can't use his chair to enact homeland security policies favorable to AIPAC, does that mean a little less quid for his pro quo?
[ Parent ]
Don't think it's 1... (0.00 / 0)
I just don't think there are going to be 60 votes to strip PO from the bill, though I suppose it's possible.  Republicans would probably vote for it, which means that there'd just have to be 20 Democrats that do as well, and there are plenty of crappy Democrats out there.
Number 3, to a point.... (4.00 / 9)
Lieberman has been waffling like crazy lately.  A few weeks ago, he said he'd oppose cloture, then he wouldn't over the weekend, now he wants to.  I'm sure his insurance friend lobbyists got ahold of him.  Reid's not the smartest guy on the block, but he had ton know something like this would be coming.  I also think that Nelson and Landrieu and Lincoln are using Lieberman to be their spokesman.  Lieberman loves the attention, and the other folk are protected from political flak.  Though it's pretty sad when you have Conrad and Baucus onbaord and you can't get some of the others.

Right now, he just wants a lot of attention...  He can't help but concern troll, and now that Snowe took herself out of the picture, he gets to be the prom queen!

Lieberman is a lot like Specter when the latter was a republican.  Specter always talked a big game, but in the end voted party line.  I suspect that Lieberman will as well.

BTW, if you call Lieberman's offices, the aides say he will vote for cloture.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

The almost certainly what the WH meant (4.00 / 1)
when they told Reid "I hope you know what you're doing"

It wouldn't surprise me if they don't trust Lieberman to back out of a deal at the last minute to upstage them. Lieberman is very sore about 2006, very sore and he sees himself in a general in a bitter war against the liberal wing of the party.

The Democratic Party has always had people like this, the trick is getting around them...that would require either tricky legislative moves or further compromise.

In the end, history tells us the Democrats will give him what he wants or go around him...then kick his ass come election time if the historical lesson of A. Willis Robertson tells us anything.

[ Parent ]
So the prom queen is (4.00 / 1)
showboating? Who would have thunk it?
[ Parent ]
Lieberman wants attention (4.00 / 4)
He wants Reid to say nice things about him, he wants to feel important, like he's a player.  He wants the media to interview him, write about him, invite him on their shows.  He wants to be courted and cajoled and stroked. He wants to be asked nicely, and then begged, several times over.  And he wants to stick it to those mean liberals who ran Ned Lamont against him and see them weep and gnash their teeth one more time.

He is just a spoiled little prince who never really grew up.  He is pathetic at this point.  But Reid knows he will vote for the bill in the end.  They all will.  They just have to go through their little dramas first.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Run an ad using his statements in the 2006 debate (4.00 / 3)
That was linked in a previous diary and use it to highlight his duplictious nature. Time may be too short for TV, but a short video on Utube could be more explicit anyway.  

Additionally, folks could start burning pairs of pants in front of his offices and/or pelting him with shoes.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

and a follow up ad on the 3 or more times (4.00 / 2)
he voted for cloture but against the final bill, including on the bank protection act (bankruptcy reform).

John McCain won't insure children
[ Parent ]
on the news radio (4.00 / 1)
I think it's CBS radio network they actually mentioned how he supported universal healthcare in 2000 as VP.  I suppose for many people that's still more relevant.



New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

[ Parent ]
That's the ticket! (4.00 / 3)
Publicly humiliate him. Humiliate him with the truth. Perhaps an email campaign to make everyone on TV aware that he claimed to support universal healthcare in the past, so he clearly has ulterior motives entirely divorced from what he thinks is best for Connecticut and the country. Also, people like to be given a choice. Which is it - insurance industry whore or spoiled baby? Do our best to expose him for the corrupt whore/narcissistic clown that he is.

Joe Lieberman operates from narcissism. That's where we have a tiny bit of leverage with him.

Or perhaps more effective than an email campaign would be a small ad buy that gets the cable newsers yacking about whether or not Lieberman is a corrupt whore or spoiled narcissistic baby or not.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
Precisely! (0.00 / 0)
If he's not running again and has a cushy lobbyist job waiting, nothing in the political realm with touch him.

Humiliation is a weak goal though because it won't take money or power from him. I don't see it making him any less valuable as a lobbyist. All his buds in the Congress will understand why he found it necessary to speak with a forked tongue and flip flop his way to a long, profitable stay in the Senate.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

[ Parent ]
What can be done with his chairmanship? (4.00 / 3)
Seems to me this should be the end of the line for that. What am I missing?  

"Once in a while you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right"
Lieberman: No public option. Period (0.00 / 0)
That seems to be his stated position. He even opposes a triggered PO. Hard to see what behind the scenes deal there would be to solve that...

Health care reform = Employer payroll savings = More hiring and more jobs!
He's a slimey Douche... (4.00 / 1)
but slimey douches can be bought.  He wants something...
[ Parent ]
He said he would 'likely" vote to move the bill to the floor (0.00 / 0)
but he would vote to filibuster passage of the final bill.  That said, unless Harry Reid and the Leaders of the Democratic Caucus threaten to kick him out, there isn't much that can be done.  The poor people of CT, too bad they can't recall him.!

Radical Centerist
The silent majority... (0.00 / 0)
...needs to step up and not be so silent. Reid can only be strong if the caucus has his back and so far, if the trigger debate is any indication, the PO supporters in the caucus sure do a lot of sitting on their hands...

Health care reform = Employer payroll savings = More hiring and more jobs!
Framing: Democratic filibuster is nuclear (4.00 / 8)
Some idiot wrote:

This isn't some garden variety bill. This is landmark legislation, decades in the making and a generationally defining moment for the party and the nation. Obstructing and preventing your own party so near success on this bill is a nuclear act. It should have nuclear consequences.

Any Democrat that filibusters this bill will be finished in Democratic politics. They should be kicked out of the Senate Democratic caucus and, frankly, they should consider just leaving the party entirely. Quite simply, it would be a disgrace beyond rehabilitation within the party.

Members and leaders need to start being explicit about consequences and about the nature and perception of this act.

Health care reform = Employer payroll savings = More hiring and more jobs!

but we may 60 again before Nov.2010 (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
He's a doof (4.00 / 8)
He's grandstanding. That's all he ever does. It's like when he pitches his annual fit over video-games. He'll get to run the chattering circuit a few extra times and get access to all the finest cocktail weenies the village has to offer. He'll get some amendment passed naming a post office after him, and will eventually let the bill come up for a vote.

All he wants is attention. Treat him like Kim Jong-Il. Give him a basketball signed by Michael Jordan and take a look at his movie script and he'll be happy for a couple months.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!

What's the CT legislature like? (0.00 / 0)
I know this is a super-longshot, but is the CT legislature Democratic controlled? If so, it seems like the only way to put pressure on Lieberman is to actually give him a REAL electoral threat right now.  The legislature should provide a mechanism for a Senatorial recall (if this is possible... not sure if it's possible, though I dunno why not).  This seems like it'd be the only way to put pressure on Lieberman right now, as "We'll get him in 2012" isn't really all that much of a threat right now, especially since he probably knows he's done then anyway.  
Very dangerous precedent in this case (4.00 / 1)
Outside of criminal activity that can be prosecuted in a court of law, I don't support this idea at all.  

I share your disgust with this guy, but remember Gray Davis.  

[ Parent ]
Gray Davis was silly... (0.00 / 0)
But I don't necessarily disagree with the ability to recall elected officials.  It should probably be more difficult to do than a simple majority just as the constitutional amendment process should be more difficult than a simple majority, but I don't see what's wrong with the general premise of always having a mechanism to keep elected officials accountable.  6 years is a really long term, and I guess that was sort of the point when the constitution was written (they wanted to balance basically accountability to constituents and ability to act without fear of repercussions from the voters), but when someone basically lies their way into office, it seems like there needs to be a mechanism to remedy that.
[ Parent ]
We could have been rid of W in 2006! (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Yes, Democratic supermajority (0.00 / 0)
but Lieberman has a lot of support within the state legislature,

and I'm not 100% sure recall for federal office is constitutional. This is from a report to Congress on the subject from Dick Lugar's office;

As to removal by recall, the United States Constitution does not provide for nor
authorize the recall of United States officers such as Senators, Representatives, or the
President or Vice President, and thus no Member of Congress has ever been recalled
in the history of the United States. The recall of Members was considered during the
time of the drafting of the federal Constitution in 1787, but no such provisions were
included in the final version sent to the States for ratification, and the specific
drafting and ratifying debates indicate an express understanding of the Framers and
ratifiers that no right or power to recall a Senator or Representative from the United
States Congress exists under the Constitution. Although the Supreme Court has not
needed to directly address the subject of recall of Members of Congress, other
Supreme Court decisions, as well as the weight of other judicial and administrative
decisions, rulings and opinions, indicate that: (1) the right to remove a Member of
Congress before the expiration of his or her constitutionally established term of office
is one which resides exclusively in each House of Congress as established in the
expulsion clause of the United States Constitution, and (2) the length and number of
the terms of office for federal officials, established and agreed upon by the States in
the Constitution creating that Federal Government, may not be unilaterally changed
by an individual State, such as through the enactment of a recall provision or a term
limitation for a United States Senator or Representative. Under Supreme Court
constitutional interpretation, since individual States never had the original sovereign
authority to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of service of federal
officials agreed to and established in the Constitution, such a power could not be
"reserved" under the 10th Amendment.

http://lugar.senate.gov/servic...

[ Parent ]
You forgot #4 (4.00 / 6)
4. Harry knows Joe is a Media Whore and just out for attention.  Joe will wring his hands, bluster a lot, and end up voting for Cloture.

As the post over at KOS points out, Joe campaigned on a bill that was much further to the Left than what Harry is running through.

We basically need a Dem Senator to call Joe on:

(a) Joe is a member of Leadership as a Committe Chair

(b) as a member of Leadership, he is to vote with the Caucus on procedural votes

(c) when being accepted back into the Caucus and given his Committee Chair, Joe promised to vote with the majority of the Caucus on procedural votes

And lastly:

(d) Joe has run on even more progressive legislation than the PO: he was running on a MediChoice that would allow anyone to opt into Medicare at any age.

Make Joe come out into the open that he's blowing off the first three, and that he lied on the fourth.

The reality is that Joe won't.

It just takes a Dem Senator with some gonads to do the "I'm very surprised by Joe's remarks, and very dispointed if they're accurate because..." spot by walking through those items.

John

I'm voting for #4 as well. (4.00 / 3)
He doesn't have the courage to be the only one in the caucus to vote against cloture.

My guess is that this is just meant to put undermine those in the House pushing for a more robust version of reform. By leaving open the possibility that the Senate may produce an even more conservative version than the majority leader's mark, he's trying to get moderate House Dems spooked about sticking their necks out too far.

[ Parent ]
Probably can't pressure Joe (4.00 / 4)
Nate at 538 has a good post up pointing out that ol' droopy dog Joe is pretty crazy. He's not acting like a politician concerned about his long-term political survival, and he may not even be planning to run in 2012. That means you can't threaten him the way you would threaten an Arlen Specter, with primary challenges or a lack of support from the liberal base. I suppose if you really wanted to pressure him, you could threaten to break his legs or something, but he'd probably relish the chance to do the Sunday circuit in a wheelchair. Indeed, I think a lot of his schtick and psychology has to do with his victimization by the mean old liberals, meaning pressure from his left will only make him more likely to intensify his behavior.

But ultimately, I don't think Joe is our biggest problem. He's a publicity whore, and he'll be just as happy as the savior of HCR as he is being its archenemy. I give even odds that he votes for final passage even if no substantial changes are made. What he's done, however, is given corporate Dems cover. No one (except Joe, because he's crazy) wants to be the lone (or first) Democrat out threatening to torpedo HCR. But you'll notice that soon after Joe, the Lincolns and the Bayhs started making their old noises. Joe is leading with his chin, taking the hits because that's what he likes. Now the cowards follow behind--and they really are committed to getting the public option stripped out on behalf of their friends in the insurance industry.

I don't know what can be done about all this. I was elated when Reid came out for the public option, but I was wondering the whole time where Lincoln, Landrieu, and Lieberman were in this conversation about Reid having locked in his caucus's votes. Now we see: they apparently aren't so locked in after all.

And wives (4.00 / 1)
on behalf of their friends in the insurance industry.

Let no one forget about Bayh's conflict of interest at home.  Paint it as much like Duvall and his spankable lobbyists.  Why are we taxpayers subsidizing his bit'o'honey?

[ Parent ]
Blackmail (4.00 / 2)
That's the only leverage that would work. Everything else is pointless. Honestly, how much could he possibly care about his chairmanship?  
Calling the ghost of LBJ n/t (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
What have you got? (0.00 / 0)


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
I Wouldn't Give Lieberman the Pleasure (4.00 / 2)
of pressuring him. He doesn't care one bit about pressure, anyway. A poster on Kos wrote that his voicemail is full, and I imagine his mailbox is going to be full, too. That's enough attention for that narcissistic warmonger.
If the WH cared about the public option, THEY'D be pressuring Lieberman, just like they twisted arms to fund their losing occupation in Afghanistan.
I don't mean to sound so cynical, but this is becoming ridiculous. It's a trillion bucks over ten years, and they give away billions (and trillions) elsewhere in a matter of days.
Lieberman Contacts (4.00 / 1)
Lieberman Contacts:

DC Phone: (202) 224-4041
CT Phone: (860) 549-8463
Fax: (202) 224-9750
Email:
http://lieberman.senate.gov/co...

I recall... (4.00 / 2)
Someone blogging about trying to call his office in 2006 and being told they don't take calls from those voters who live outside of CT.

The guy is all over the place trying to wedge himself into make-or-break positions on questions of national policy, then he won't take calls from outside the state.

CT's senator, but my unapproachable overlord. Uggh.

[ Parent ]
Get Some Poll Data (4.00 / 2)
It would probably be helpful to get some polling on health care and specifically on the public option in the state of Connecticut.

It may be worth running ads in Connecticut contrasting Lieberman's current statement with his campaign promises.

Anything you can do to get home state press to bad mouth Lieberman will help. Politicians HATE getting bad-mouthed by press in their home state or home district.

Here ya go (0.00 / 0)
From Nate Silver . . .
[ Parent ]
I'm not too worried. (4.00 / 2)
Harry Reid is the ultimate vote counter. He knows how to get to 60, and I'm hopeful he'll get there with a decent public option with or without "Holy Joe" Loserman.

Reid is not a weak leader. If that's true, what's the use of urging him to do anything, if he's allegedly to weak to get it done?

In fact, Reid excels at that part of legislative leadership that's conducted behind closed doors, in Senate offices, in private, whispered conversations on the floor, in phone calls and e-mails and all the myriad ways that senators communicate. In that forum, Reid is extraordinarily effective at getting things done.

If he's put this plan forward, he must be confident he'll have 60 votes for cloture in the end... And/or has a successful plan for reconciliation just in case he needs one.

Want to save marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how! ;-)

Netroots pressure Lieberman? (4.00 / 5)
Asking netroots to pressure Lieberman is kind of like when Republicans threaten to go ballistic if we use the nuclear option.  Seriously, what else can they do that aren't already doing?

But the Senate leadership needs to make it very clear that Lieberman is only in the Democratic caucus, and only has committee chair, because Democrats choose to keep him in good graces.  If he can't be depended upon to break Republican filibusters on the top items in the Democratic agenda, he has no reason to be in the caucus.  Period.

Perhaps there is something we can do to pressure the leadership?

If Loserman keeps talking bullsh*t... (4.00 / 3)
I say we start calling leadership and demanding they pull Loserman's seniority. I'll write a note to Harry Reid now... And if Loserman keeps threatening to filibuster, I'll call Reid and demand he strip Loserman of his seniority and committee assignments. He should have just listened to all of us who warned about coddling Holy Joe in the first place, and Obama shouldn't have embraced the McCainiac so quickly and wholeheartedly.

Want to save marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how! ;-)
[ Parent ]
Simple: (0.00 / 0)
Get Snowe to vote for cloture.
lol (4.00 / 1)
how? ask nicely?
[ Parent ]
George Voinovich (4.00 / 2)
Here's a long shot, but, rather than focusing on Lieberman, what if we try wooing someone else?

I live in Ohio and called his Cleveland Senate office today and told the fellow who took the call that I wanted to invite George to consider supporting this healthcare reform effort. I said that I'd noticed that George has kept a low profile and understood why - that the republican party had gone crazy and there's no place for "moderates". But our side is open to "moderates" and George could make the choice to be for something that will benefit Americans, rather than ending his career with his tail between his legs. Told him George had traditionally been a pragmatist, not an idealogue and that we'd welcome him. The fellow was very friendly and thanked me - in strong contrast to a staffer in Boehner's office in July, who, when I called and said that Boehner should publicly condemn the death panels nonsense, spouted a string of repub talking points and hung up on me.

Anyone know how George feels about Lieberman? Anyone know whether George has been approached by Dems? I have the impression that some efforts were tried but George wasn't interested but I don't really know the history. I'm wondering if effort was made from here, from Ohio citizens, might he be more receptive? Or does he have a cushy job lined up post-senate with a healthcare company or something?

Voinovich as governor once championed health care reform... (0.00 / 0)
...in Ohio similar to the pre-Brandsen TennCare program.  It would have been a significant reform effort, but the Republicans in congress cut his Medicaid funding, so it never happened.

Of course, that's when he was more reasonable.  He's turned into a very cranky old man, and it seems that he doesn't mind being an obstructionist at the moment.  I think if Collins were to come in, Voinovich might follow, but that's about the only way, IMO.

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

[ Parent ]
My two cents' worth (0.00 / 0)

 I should have never checked the blogs before coming home from work. The weather was nasty, and nuclear-angry drivers and pouring rain don't mix well. Still, I made it home OK, no worries...

 Anyway. I tend to believe that Reid did approach Lieberman about his vote before his announcement yesterday, and Lieberman lied to him by telling him he wouldn't stand in the way of cloture. Reid might not be the most forceful majority leader, but he's never come across as dishonest. Lieberman, on the other hand, is a chronic liar and overall slimeball. So why wouldn't he lie to Reid and hang him out to dry?

 What disturbs me is the White House's low profile here. I think Reid is sincere about the public option -- I really do. He took a huge risk yesterday with his announcement. I'm less convinced Obama is. The coddling of Lieberman by this administration has been pathological.
 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

We'll see it that situation changes (0.00 / 0)
Whether it does or not will say much.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
Lieberman is Easy (4.00 / 2)
He has no principles. Zilch, zip, nada.

Reid can buy him off with whatever little Senate trinkets he has in his pocket come voting time.

Joe won't want to walk away empty-handed.  That's his greatest fear.

Reid Brushes Off Lieberman's Threat | 50 comments
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