The list of Stupak Democrats

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 14:15


As I noted yesterday, the House Committee on Rules still has not scheduled a time for a mark-up on the health care reform bill. They have to pass the bill before it goes to floor for debate, and the leadership won't send a bill to the floor until they believe they have the votes for passage.  So, this delay means they are not yet convinced they have the votes.

The reason for this, unsurprisingly, remains Bart Stupak.  He is, as Natasha described this morning, working to block the entire bill unless none of the insurance options in the new health care exchanges cover abortion procedures.  This is even though there is already a ban on federal funding for abortion in the bill, and in pre-existing federal law.  Using an alliance of Republicans, anti-choice Democrats, and Democrats who oppose the health care bill for other reasons, Stupak is claiming that he has enough votes to block the bill for reaching the floor (though the necessary "motion to recommit" vote), unless his demands are met.

As Natasha also mentioned this morning, the Democratic leadership does not actually know if Stupak has the votes or not, since no formal whip question around Stupak's demands has been completed.  However, a Capitol Hill source confirmed to Natasha that they are suspicious that he has the votes.  As such, they are currently whipping to see if a new compromise, which appears to re-ban something that was already banned, has enough votes to reach the floor:

Democratic House leaders have developed a compromise they hope will resolve an intra-caucus dispute about whether the health bill allows tax dollars to subsidize abortions, and they're surveying abortion opponents in the caucus to gauge support.

The language is not yet publicly available, but lawmakers familiar with it say it strengthens an existing provision intended to prevent abortion from getting any federal dollars.(...)

Leaders are hoping to start debate Friday or Saturday, and say there will definitely be a vote before Nov. 11, Veterans Day.

Lawmakers have said the abortion compromise may not be included in the final version of the bill to be released as soon as today, called the "managers amendment." Instead it may be included in the "rule" which is done the day before the vote. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said today he did not consider that a violation of his pledge to have the bill language available for three days before a vote.

Even though the whip is ongoing, a list I have obtained indicates that there are only 29 Democrats who are with Stupak, 28 of whom are men:

Altmire; Barrow; Boren; Bright; Carney; Childers; Costello; Dahlkemper; A. Davis; L. Davis; Driehaus; Griffith; Holden; Kildee; Kratovil (conflicting reports); Lipinski; Marshall; Matheson; McIntyre; Melancon; McMahon; Mollohan; Oberstar; Peterson; Rahall; Ross; Shuler; Tanner; Taylor

This list only makes 30 (including Stupak himself), and 39 Democrats are required to join with every Republican to block the bill from reaching the floor.  As such, Stupak does not have the votes to stop the bill on his own.  Then again, it is possible there are enough Progressives--and other Democratic members--upset with the bill for other reasons prevent debate from going forward.  At this point, it would only take nine such Democrats to join with Republicans and with this group, and block the whole thing.

There is a very narrow margin for the health care bill in the House.  However, while most national news stories continue to focus on the cost of the bill or on the public option, the major sticking point for conservative Democrats is actually reproductive rights.  Even under the widest Democratic majority in three decades, they are still attempting--and close to succeeding--in actually pushing reproductive rights backward.

Update: Debcoop confirms with McMahon's office that he is not supporting Stupak's amendment, although she did not ask McMahon's office about the motion to recommit.

Chris Bowers :: The list of Stupak Democrats

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My question (4.00 / 2)
How is this acceptable? It's bad enough that federal funding of abortions is already banned, but Stupak's efforts are simply ridiculous.  Do these representatives realize the potential implications of what they're doing?

Can we exercise no manner of coercion against them to get them in line? Someone like Oberstar, f*cking CHAIR of the Transportation Committee, is joining in an effort to pretty much shut down health care reform?

All of these individuals enjoy every privilege of being a Democratic member of Congress, and can't be bothered to back the most important domestic legislation of the last forty years? Strip them of everything. Strip them of anything having even marginal political value.  No more DNC/DCCC/DSCC help, no more committee chairs, no more PAC money. Blacklist them from Democratic politics, then let's see how long their opposition lasts.


Curious, isn't it (4.00 / 2)
that it's invariably MEN who are behind these efforts to keep women in line. As others have noted, one wonders whether they'd be as eager to join in as strenuous an effort to black Viagra and other erectile dysfunction treatments from being covered under these plans.

I think not. Especially seeing as most of them are getting up there in years (and likely less capable "down there").

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Strange list (4.00 / 1)
No Jews, no Buddhists, no Moslems.

One woman.

One black (Artur Davis). No Hispanics.

Slightly more recent electees than the House as a whole.  Otherwise the group is fairly typical in seniority.

A lot of these people were elected when a Republican was President but given mainly Republican Presidents since 1969, that would be usual.

This is not way more Catholic or Baptist than House Democrats as a whole.  Which is a surprise.

This list is non-Hispanic white, male, Christian.  Sounds like the Republican electorate.


[ Parent ]
"non-Hispanic white, male, Christian"` (4.00 / 1)
I.e. the very same kind of people who still hold the most power and money in the US, folks like Obama, Soros and Winfrey notwithstanding. Their power and money is slowly going elsewhere, but they still hold enough of it to be a royal pain in the ass for the rest of us. And for progressives. There are some issues on which some compromise with them is probably necessary, I believe (e.g. public option instead of single payer). And there are some issues on which caving is probably the only possible strategy, for now at least (e.g. gun control). But damn, we should NOT be doing either on this issue. On this, they should be CRUSHED, and messages transmitted that it's no long 1984. Reagan is long dead, the right doesn't control shit, and they need to get their fat white Christian male oppressor heads out of their fat white Christian male oppressor asses--and they are fat, morally (if not literally in some cases).

Enough already. Pelosi has got to OWN them on this.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
No gender differences on abortion views (0.00 / 0)
From the 2008 General Social Survey:

Please tell me whether or not you think it should be
possible for a pregnant woman to obtain a legal abortion if:  The woman wants it for any reason?

Men: Yes, 42%; No 58%
Women: Yes, 40%; No 60%

Of course other surveys vary depending on question wording, time and other factors, but there's it's clear that there's no substantial differences between the genders in abortion attitudes.


[ Parent ]
I was specifically referring to members of congress (4.00 / 1)
who are behind this effort, not to the general population.

Plus, the above poll question is so open-ended as to be useless. ANY reason? At what point in her pregnancy? The question implies any TIME in her pregnancy, not just any REASON.

I'm fairly certain that when people are asked if it should be legal for a woman to obtain an abortion for any reason during the first trimester (and for valid medical reasons beyond that), a majority would say yes. Although the specific numbers have changed over the years, that this has been a majority opinion has been the case for decades now.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
I agree majority is basically pro-choice (4.00 / 1)
I just chose that question because I could find the results quickly.  My point, which I'm sure holds across questions, is that women on average are no more pro-choice than men.  This particular group of members (relatively right-wing Democrats) is not representative of anything much.  There are plenty of female right-wing members of Congress who are militantly anti-choice.  My larger point is that the anti-abortion movement is not in any simple way an example of men oppressing women, because women play a big part in it, as both leaders and followers.  I'm sure at some deep level it is part of male domination, among other things.

[ Parent ]
This proves just what a red herring crock bipartisanship for its OWN sake is (4.00 / 2)
even and perhaps especially WITHIN one's caucus. As always, there are only three options in politics: cave, compromise or crush. There is simply no valid reason to cave in to, nor even meaningfully compromise with, the forces of stasis and regression on the right and center. There are enough progressives to crush both, and ram through almost anything that they like. The only things still lacking are spine, resolve, courage and principle, and perhaps not a little self-confidence. But the political MEANS to pass progressive legislation is there.

And has been since 1/20/09.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


I suspect you are largely right, but . . . (0.00 / 0)
Not because there are actually progressive majorities in either house (certainly not by my definition), but because the momentum of the times, i.e., economic crisis, could probably have dragged along enough soft liberals and moderates to ram through a lot of stuff had Obama and progressive congressional leaders gone this route.  But I don't see what makes you so certain, and there are obvious limits.  For example, single-payer could not have passed this Congress.  I think we could have gotten a much better health bill than we are likely to get, but I'm not sure, and even then probably only with reconciliation.

[ Parent ]
But I never said that there was a progressive majority (4.00 / 1)
Just that there are enough of them to determine what kinds of bills get passed, if they would only band together instead of caving time after time when push comes to shove. There are more of them in the House than Blue Dogs or any other organized group of Dems, so they have the most power in the caucus. And since Dems control the House, where minority rights are minimal, progressives can effectively run the House, if they wanted to. It's obviously different in the Senate, where there are fewer progressives, and where the minority party does have real power. But since, without the House, the Senate can't pass anything, House progressives--along with their Senate counterparts--have disproportionate power in congress right now. But they're not using it wisely as yet. It's only on HCR that we've finally seen some stirrings from them, and less than aggressive ones on the whole.

Clearly, there are limits to their power, for various reasons. But I don't believe that they've even begun to make full use of their actual power, for reasons that I can't quite fathom. I'm hoping that it's more out of a lack of self-confidence and experience than out of a lack of courage and conviction. The former is fixable, the latter not.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Interesting that three co-sponsors of HR 676 are on the list (0.00 / 0)
Kildee, Costello and Rahall.  

What @ssholes... (4.00 / 3)
These folks whine about "fiscal responsibility" all the time, then they do something that will ultimately cost us the taxpayers MORE in dealing with so many unwanted pregnancies? I swear it wouldn't be like this if men could get pregnant.

Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.

c'mon, Obama.... (0.00 / 0)
Seems to me this is a situation where Obama ought to be stepping in and kicking ass.  Tell Stupak and the rest of the stupniks in the House that they will never see another dollar of pork for their districts if they try to hold healthcare hostage with anti-abortion tactics.

Stupak is the reason why we have negotiated rates in the PO (4.00 / 2)
The leadership needed to compromise the medicare+5% option to get more votes around Stupak's insulting regressive block.

So, he's already hurt reform badly...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


Wait, what? (0.00 / 0)
The leadership needed to compromise the medicare+5% option to get more votes around Stupak's insulting regressive block.

Are you saying that the leadership made a deal with pro-choice centrists, saying that negotiated rates would be in the bill if they would not support Stupak's amendment?


[ Parent ]
The Nuclear Option (4.00 / 1)
This is dickishness of a monumental extent. Trying to torpedo healthcare to reban something that's already been banned is way beyond acceptable. It's not something we can even allow congressional Democrats to be seen to consider.

This is an issue on which there is only one acceptable answer. Anybody voting for the Stupak amendment should be guaranteed a progressive third-party challenger, willing to run on abortion rights and the need for decent healthcare.

There are a lot of people from conservative districts on this list. There are a lot of new representatives. There are plenty who are not much loved by their base. Kathy Dahlkemper could be torpedoed by a third party candidate. Bart Stupak might find a lot of Republicans smelling blood in the water. Chris Carney should be loudly primaried anyway. Heath Shuler must have pissed off just about every liberal in his district by now. Bobby Bright needs a united Democratic front to continue to hold office. John Tanner might be able to cope with Tennessee's rightward drift, but a left-wing challenger would make that more difficult.

There are very few people on this list who aren't vulnerable at all, and most of those are sufficiently good on healthcare that we might be able to row them back from the edge. Everybody else removes any right to support from liberal Democrats by supporting this amendment, and progressives should organise to see them defeated, even if they're replaced by Republicans. Ten fewer Democrats (the absolute most we could contribute towards the defeat of, if we're honest) would make the House a bit closer. But it would also encourager les autres in no uncertain fashion.

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"just about every liberal in his district" (0.00 / 0)
Remove "just about" from that phrase, and you'll have an accurate reflection of liberal sentiment in Heath Shuler's district.

[ Parent ]
Correction, Chris: (4.00 / 2)
They already have succeeded in pushing reproductive rights backwards. The Capps Amendment - the current language in the bill - calls for at least one plan that covers abortion and one that does not in the exchange. That's arguably a worse position than the current one, when 80+% of plans cover abortion services.

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Governor? (4.00 / 3)
Both Swing State project and Wikipedia list Stupak as a possible candidate for Governor of Michigan in 2010.  I would think he would be very easy to torpedo, especially if he personally blew apart the health bill.

Wikipedia lists him as a member of "The Family" although he hedges about it.  He seems like someone who would split apart the Democratic party in a statewide (probably losing) bid.


State wide primaries (4.00 / 1)
are a place where the netroots has a lot of unrealized potential.  Obviously in cases like this, if Stupak thought this move would hurt his chances to move up, he would have thought twice.  In addition, the caucus would move in a better direction, which would make it harder for people like Stupak to pull this sort of nonsense.  

Too often, we get involved after all the decisions have been made - CA governor, OH and MA senate, for example - important things are happening largely under the radar. Hopefully, that will change soon.

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel


[ Parent ]
So, isn't this the time to be involved...? (0.00 / 0)
Too often, we get involved after all the decisions have been made - CA governor, OH and MA senate, for example - important things are happening largely under the radar. Hopefully, that will change soon.

Right, but those three races are all on-going as we speak.  And arguably, in all three of them, liberals are not doing well. (Not so sure how liberal Coakley in MA is.)

I've read precious little on individual races on Open Left.  Granted, health care reform has sucked up most of the attention but if we really are going to pass a half-measure and then "fix it later", we're gonna need to elect good people who actually want to "fix it".  Shouldn't this be the time when Open Left starts getting involved in 2010 primaries?


[ Parent ]
Now is the time (0.00 / 0)
and before was the time too. We're already behind the ball, but that doesn't mean there aren't still opportunities.  

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel

[ Parent ]
While Oberstar is pro-life (0.00 / 0)
anti-choice, whatever you want to call it, I highly doubt that he is willing to kill health care over the issue. It seems as though Stupack may have just put out a list of "pro-choice" Dems.

"Never separate the life you live from the words you speak" -Paul Wellstone

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