I no longer understand Dem insider thinking (4.00 / 3)

Not even from a self-interest standpoint.  At least with the GOP, before they entered the Palin-Beck meltdown mode, they acted fairly predictably to preserve their own interests.

Obama seems to have -- truly bizarrely -- gone out of his way to take ownership of the economy.  It isn't just that he's helped out Wall Street.  He's done it in a way that insulates GOP from the fallout.

Incredibly, the Obama administration bends over backwards to find bipartisan support for all good legislation, even to the point of watering it down or bailing out Republicans (sure, its nice to break the GOP unanimity on the health care vote, but wouldn't Dems prefer to just take Cao's seat in 2012?).

But when it comes to extremely unpopular legislation or regulations, the need for which arose because of Bush policies, Obama hardly blinks before launching ahead and letting the GOP steal the populist mantle.  Again, bizarre.

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by: space @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 08:27:52 AM CST

It makes sense ONLY if you assume he's a Republican mole. (4.00 / 2)

Or a corporatist agent.

Despite the tinfoil aspect, no other explanation makes sense - at leat, to me.

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by: Randall Kohn @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 09:14:04 AM CST

[ Parent ]

What tin foil hat? (4.00 / 4)

Obama is as Obama does, and everything he has done indicates he is at his core deeply conservative.  The same goes for most of the Democrats today, even the likes of Pelosi.  Actions matter more than mere words.  Even Hillary Clinton (as loathsome as she is) told us that on the campaign trail last year, but nobody was listening.

Single-Payer is the ONLY viable public option.

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by: Single-Payer Advocate @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 09:28:32 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Unfortunately, I agree. (; (4.00 / 2)

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by: Randall Kohn @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 09:46:08 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Depends on what you mean by "mole" (0.00 / 0)

If you mean that he is working for the GOP and wants to get Republicans elected, then I suppose it DOES make sense.

But if you mean, as Single-Payer Advocate does, that Obama is simply a very conservative Dem then, no, it doesn't make sense.  Even if Obama is a DLC-esque Dem at heart -- a "Black Bayh" if you will -- then he should STILL be trying to implement conservative policies in a way that makes him more popular and makes re-election in '12 more likely.  That isn't happening.

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by: space @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 12:00:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

What if re-election isn't his goal? (0.00 / 0)

That threat only works for the little people.  If you have enough connections to get elected to a major public office, you have enough connections to line up a cushy next job.

Suppose instead the real reason for your election was to push the Overton window rightward -- to explicitly strengthen the DLC's role in the D party, and/or to strengthen and preserve the superordinate roles of the existing order and its constituent institutions in our lives outside the party.

This one might be more about the players' union than the teams on the field.

All that said, looking back I would have been better off to donate my hundreds to service organizations than politicians this year.

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by: marxmarv @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 19:13:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Why would they push a progressive agenda? (4.00 / 2)

Democrats are not progressive, and they do not have or advocate for a progressive agenda.  Most of them are corporate-owned, very conservative.  Why should we waste our energy working with (or for) them on anything?  They're the biggest obstacle to a progressive agenda.

If we progressives are going to push anything through the Congress, we'll have to do it without the help of the Democratic Party at large.  Sure, there are a few like Kucinich who are willing to go to bat for us, but they're the exception.

Single-Payer is the ONLY viable public option.

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by: Single-Payer Advocate @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 09:24:51 AM CST

Well, I see it another way (0.00 / 0)

We're talking just politically here, forget the moral issues, which are myriad.  I don't think they so much need to push a progressive agenda (though personally I wish they would) as I think they need to be seen as taking pretty bold steps and being tough.

Let's forget Afghanistan for a minute, which I don't believe has seeped into the politics of the masses the way it will over the next few years if the reports of yet another escalation are true.  And let's forget some of the things that we as progressives know are really evil, like failure to hold torturers accountable.  These things don't matter to most people now.  But there are two places where Dems have blown it that are going to hurt far more than I think they realize politically:

1.The stimulus.  This is plain and simple about jobs.  The stimulus was a watered down piece of shit, probably 25-30% of what was needed because it was both too small and had too much in it that was not stimulating.  For reasons relating to trade and other things you have written about, this "downturn" was always going to be when we finally had to face our jobs problem.  The stimulus succeeded in saving some jobs, no question.  Better that we had it than didn't. But it was so much less than was needed that the point is irrelevant politically.  It has been so poor that most voters don't know the difference between the stimulus and the bailout, because they perceive both were massive giveaways that haven't helped them.  It doesn't matter if they're right, that's political reality.

2.Health care.  #1 alone might have been enough to cause serious hurt to the Dems in 2012 in particular.  But healthcare has also been bad.  Forget arguments about whether the bill that will emerge helps more than it hurts and look at the politics.  Obama is the visible face of this, so we have to lay most of the praise and blame for the politics of it at his feet.  Obama's unwillingness to take real and visible risks to push real serious change has given us a muddled whirlpool of noise.  The result?  Most voters - who really do believe the system needs serious changes (unlike GOP leadership) - believe that the government is screwing it up.
  Now, IF a really good bill with a lot of immediate positive impacts to the masses of voters were to pass, that could be overcome.  But that's not what we have.  We have a bill that will help most those least likely to vote, that will not contain costs at all (according to the CBO), that will make most voters think their individual lot has gotten worse.  And Obama and the Dems are lining up to take "credit" for it.

Democrats have screwed themselves here politically.  And I don't quite understand why.  Let's even accept for a moment the questionable argument that this is about the best they could have gotten passed.  Do Rahm and the gang think they can spin this somehow?  If so, I want what they're smoking.  That's ridiculous.  They would have been much better off going down fighting than acting like risk-averse typical politicians and getting a short-term victory.

The only real hope for them is that the GOP seems to be imploding.  If that continues, they have a shot.

Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.

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by: egtalbot @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 09:57:09 AM CST

Our hopes lie entirely with 30 Senators... (0.00 / 0)

I'm so furious about the House trickery re Stupak. But Pelosi and Hoyer had to be in touch with the Administration before this went down.
The Administration has also been in the back room with Reid and Baucus all along.

The House and the Administration need to shut up now, because they've screwed thing up royally.

Our last hopes are with those 30+ Senate Dems who stood up and spoke out for the PO. They are a majority bloc and as such, have power available to wield.
I suggest we target them and demand they take all available drastic actions - which could include stripping Reid and Lieberman of their titles - for the sake of the country and the life of the Demcratic party.    

Nationalism is not the same thing as terrorism, and an adversary is not the same thing as an enemy.

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by: worldlymother @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 13:18:39 PM CST

Dems in Denial (0.00 / 0)

I've been wondering about this all along.  The only reasonable explanation I can offer is that Obama and his crew still don't realize how much the economic meltdown and the resulting bailout has fundamentally shifted the voters.  The voter upset (more like rage) at the actions of the government to bailout Wall St are not a Democrat or Republican phenomenon, but cross all party lines and left/right viewpoints.

Our government was designed such that quick change is difficult.  We've only managed to get our government into this sorry state through twenty five to thirty years of the Republicans setting the agenda, and watching the Democrats sell out party principles all in the name of economic progress.

The only time change can happen more quickly is when the government AND the "ruling oligarchy" view the county's situation as dire enough to threaten their control - which is what happen during the Great Depression.  Unfortunately, our government doesn't seem to think that we have reached that point yet.  Instead we here "happy talk" about how the recession is over, and are presented with rather bloodless economic data to support that view.

So my guess is things will have to get worse before action is taken for fundamental reform.  This leads to a perplexing situation which largely did not occur during the Great Depression, where was very clear that the Republicans and Hoover were making the situation worse by not acting.  How this plays out today - well, you tell me, I'm not sure.  Maybe rising unemployment and bad 2010 results will wake up the Democratic party.  Maybe not.

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by: glenjo @ Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 15:43:08 PM CST

If O had gotten out there while Congress was on vacation and gone (0.00 / 0)

all over the country pushing single payer, he would have gotten it. He has a silver tongue. He is listening to the wrong people and now he doesn't even know what he wants.

He is repeating his grandfather and his father's mistakes in his own way. Get on top of the pedestal and get scared and climb down. This is what identification can do to you and your unconscious.

Notice that little boy in the parking lot? See him square his shoulders and walk just like dad does. See it. Did you see it?

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by: abbeysbooks @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 00:27:50 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Obama is going to do 1994 all over again (0.00 / 0)

Just you wait Henry Higgins, just you wait.

A health bill with lots of opposition from the repugs would put them behind the 8 ball forever. Just think. We now have health care single payer and those bastards didn't want us to have it. How about that. Having them oppose, not joining the dems was the perfect strategy.

Doesn't anyone remember that FDR got masses of people voting dem long after he was dead! Congress was dem until 1994. Because of what FDR did. Who the hell wants them on the train.

Obama is stupid.

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by: abbeysbooks @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 00:23:55 AM CST