Targetting Dems In 2010--Some Points On The Big Picture & Strategy

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 19:00


In the earlier diaries I posted today a number of issues have come up that I think deeserve further reflection and response.  So I'm going to deal with several of them.

First up, some folks argued that the Stupak Amendment was no big deal, really, or at best overblown as an issue, even a red herring.  But Digby had is exactly right
--the Stupak Amendment is establishment payback for getting uppity [emphasis added]:

I've received a couple of comments and emails wondering why I haven't weighed in on the health care vote. I did, it was just done before the vote was taken. Sadly, my predictions were correct.

One of the things that those of us who follow politics from afar tend to see that those who are involved in the minutia often understandably miss, is the over arching themes that guide the politicians and the villagers. I don't suppose that they are necessarily aware of it, although some of the influential strategists may be, but it's there nonetheless.

I knew that after all the sturm and drang over the past few months over the public option, the number one liberal priority in the health care debate, there would be a price for its success. The ruling elite could never allow an unambiguous liberal victory.  It would endanger their narrative that says fealty to business, religion, military and other authoritarian structures is democratically inspired. They have to maintain the fiction that the people prefer to be subjects.  If politicians aren't convinced that there will be a price for being liberals, they might get the idea that they can actually govern liberally.

Second, another major issuse concerned the efficacy of challenging and defeating reactionary Democrats.  For the most part, this concern is either born out of chronic cynicism (in which case, I have to ask, why are you posting at Open Left?) or misunderstanding.  Challenging and defeating reactionary Democrats is not a silver bullet.  It's just one task among many.  In Digby's post just referred to she essentially talks about hegemonic struggle, and about why the establishment can't tolerate allowing a clean liberal victory.  Extracting a penalty in response to their penalty is just one part of the larger struggle we need to be engaged in.  And even if candidates do lose, their campaigns represent an opportunity to educate voters.  As I wrote in one of my comments, this is precisely how Bernie Sanders moved, over time, from getting 1% of the vote in his election to being a US Senator.

Third, some have complained that this is bad strategy.  That (a) it's already too late in the cycle, (b) we should be targetting other issues--such as economic ones, (c) we should be postitively supporting existing progressive challengers instead.  Both (a) and (b) have some truth in them--but this simply reflects the numerous ways in which the system protects itself.  The point is that this pair of votes--the Stupak Amendment and final House passage--have provided a rare opportunity in which points that are usually intentionally muddied for the general electorate have become strikingly clear.  And just because the timing is not optimal, and issue is not squarely in the middle of where voters are suffering most does not mean we should ignore this opportunity.  Sieze whatever opportunity you can grab hold of--especially the opportunity to strike back at the sort of move that Digby describes.  As for (c), it's most certainly true, but a case of walking and chewing gum at the same time.  

Paul Rosenberg :: Targetting Dems In 2010--Some Points On The Big Picture & Strategy

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I said it in an earlier thread (4.00 / 10)
but I'll say it again.

The point of Stupak was to knock the heart out of us. Let's don't let it.

Montani semper liberi


well said (4.00 / 6)
And, thank you Paul for providing a constructive outlet for all my pissed off anger I'm feeling today. These are the times when I really value what Open Left provides.

They call me Clem, Clem Guttata. Come visit wild, wonderful West Virginia Blue

[ Parent ]
What is called for here is blind unreasoning rage (4.00 / 11)
The centrists always use our intelligence against us.  So they say that health care reform is historic progress and we have to continue the fight (boolah boolah) in conference committee but do nothing that endangers the bill's passage.

That's reasonable.  So we had Anthony (Mr. Public Option) Weiner touting the glories of the bill even as the Stupak fight loomed.  Likewise Howard (he ducked) Dean.

Maddow on Meet the Press decried Stupak at the beginning of that segment but then went all historic within minutes.  And as Marc Antony said, they are all honorable women and men.

This bill is doomed.  The Senate will not support the House version, and the narrowness of the vote has emboldened Lieberman & Co. to kill it completely.  Waiting for the conference committee is to ask Charlie Brown to trust Lucy one more time.

THERE IS NOTHING TO LOSE!!!  Our stance must be that any Congressman (House or Senate) voting for a bill containing abortion restrictions must be challenged in 2010 or when available.  I don't care if that costs the seats of good liberals.  If they are good liberals, they'll vote no.    

Liberals mocked the teabaggers in NY-23, but the measure is support for policy, not Dem vs. Repub scorecard.  NY-23 was a success for the teabaggers.

See, if you're in a bar and you know the guy next to you is psycho enough to kill you if you insult his mother, you don't insult his mother.  Say smart things about my simplistic emotionalism.  I don't care.  We don't have enough psychos.  Blocking abortion rights is a red line.  We have to take on not just the blue dogs, but our liberals.  

Even if they are all such honorable ...

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


NY-23 isn't a success for the teabaggers (0.00 / 0)
because the Constitution hasn't changed. There is only room for two coalitions, evenly divided in the US system.

A "teabag" party will be routinely trounced by the Democrats, even as milquetoast as the Dems are.


[ Parent ]
to quote myself (0.00 / 0)
the measure is support for policy, not Dem vs. Repub scorecard

Or didn't you notice what happened yesterday?

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


[ Parent ]
O RLY? (4.00 / 1)
Where's the Constitution mandate plurality voting?

[ Parent ]
A Different Take (4.00 / 3)
When I was in law school, my criminal law professor wanted to make a point about the death penalty and arguments that it saves lives.  He said that if you really wanted to use the death penalty to save lives, what you'd do is take the name of every person in the country who got a traffic citation in a particular year.  You'd put all these names in a hopper and at the end of the year draw one name.  That person you would hang on television.  That would be real deterrence that would save lives.

I have something like this in mind.  Pick one or two so we can concentrate our resources, let them know that we'll be picking one or two every two years matter what, and then drag our choices through hell.

For maximum effect we should pick their leaders.  This would get a lot more attention than if we picked an obscure back bencher.  Once again, for my money (and I will be delighted to contribute) Dan Boren would be a perfect target, if for nothing else than just to punish him for being the son of David.


[ Parent ]
Oh god the example is the story The Lottery (4.00 / 1)
And the author said she had people writing her asking where this was so they could go and watch. How sick is that.

But the example is perfect.

And remember Stoller's way of using ads that are effective and cheap. They are here in the archives somewhere and we could do that easily.


[ Parent ]
then there's the blackout (4.00 / 2)
Stupak was coming a long time.  My impression is that the story broke big in the blogs on Wednesday.  On Thursday and Friday, it basically disappeared.  Then on Saturday, oh me oh my, abortion rights are threatened.  To arms!  To arms!

My wife Rose has rightly pointed out my own blindness in not seeing this long before Wednesday.  But my feeble defense is that I was kept in the dark until then.  And didn't see the smoke rising before that -- I actually should have been paying more attention to Chris Matthews.

But what happened on Thursday and Friday?  When liberal and feminist blogs went silent?  Not even a word from Maddow the Indignant.  I think there was a deliberate conspiracy to hide this issue, to not give progressives time to mobilize, whether out of cravenness or stupidity, I don't know.  But this was not a matter of being out-gunned by the dogs, it was a deliberate rollover.

I don't like the notion of witch-hunts, but there was high treason here.  And they were all such honorable ...

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


Right. (1.60 / 5)
The bigger prize is socialized medicine and completing the safety net, not a petty symbolic action in the "culture wars".

The black out was the right call; and in time the emotionally driven discussion of abortion will die down and we will move on.


[ Parent ]
Silly women. (4.00 / 16)
What are thinking? That we are American citizens or something?

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
No (4.00 / 1)
He's serious.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
I don't agree with this at all (0.00 / 0)
and I rarely follow Paul's logic but I don't think this was a troll worthy comment!

[ Parent ]
NOW National Action Center sent this on Nov 6 (0.00 / 0)
NEW ABORTION RESTRICTIONS -- Last minute restrictions adopted in the rule required to bring the House health care reform bill to the floor will explicitly prohibit federal funding for abortion services, guarantee patient access to insurance plans that do not cover abortions and require federal health officials to hire private contractors to handle payments to abortion providers. These restrictions represent a compromise to allow the full bill to go forward and were reached after days of negotiation with conservative abortion rights opponents in both parties, with heavy involvement of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. Members from the Congressional Pro-Choice Caucus were not pleased with the language but would not oppose it. Support from a few additional anti-abortion rights House members for the overall bill should now be enough to reach the magic number of 218 votes.
Came at the very end of the e-mail, Next paragraph asked you to support the bill.

Since negotiations extended beyond Nov. 6, this content may be incorrect.


[ Parent ]
B. Mull (4.00 / 1)
NOW was referring to the Ellsworth language (funds for abortion were to be segregated) which the anti-choice people later rejected. NOW is currently opposing the entire reform bill.

[ Parent ]
Enough with the electoral politics (4.00 / 1)
Enough with the on-to-the-next fight.
Enough with electing better Democrats.
Enough with strategizing.

We need to organize.

Mark Rudd has a great article in "Counterpunch" (but you need a subscription) about the difference between activism which he considers about self-expression and organizing which is about collective action. He felt that the SDS lost their way when they made it about them.  He wishes they had kept organizing against capitalism.  

The health care debate was meant to be a distraction from the heist of our money by Wall Street.  The fix was in a long long time ago.  

If you keep working within this corrupt party, you are Charlie Brown.

I have tried party politics in earnest for 5 years. I became a county chair.  I was a delegate.  I worked on two campaigns.   I am done with it.

 


Interesting Point About Mark Rudd (4.00 / 3)
Cathy Wilkerson made much the same point in her memoir, "Flying Close to the Sun."  It was a pleasure reading someone who was well versed and addicted to organizing.

On the other hand, here in the Redwood Empire, I have seen "activists" use the language of "organizing" simply as a tactic to put their allies off base.  It's easy to talk about how important organizing is.  It's quite another thing to actually organize.


[ Parent ]
I agree with you. I don't know how to organize (4.00 / 1)
I'm kind of lost.
Rudd quotes from Charles Payne's book "I've Got the Light of Freedom: The Organizing Tradition in the Mississippi Civil Rights Movement.  There is the top down model used by SCLC and then there is the model used by the black church women of the South.  Theirs was more democratic and relational than the model of following the charismatic preacher.  SNCC followed the church women model. Rudd notes that the Alinsky model is top down.

There seems to be a whole lot of manipulation going on.  Who are the leaders?  Who pays who?  These are two questions Rudd asks his students when he lectures. And he specifically uses Obama as organizer as an example.

Guess I need to read both books.


[ Parent ]
What an impotent reply to socialized health care (4.00 / 1)
if that is what it is.

With two elections between the implementation of the current bill, there will be ample opportunity to put the issue to the voters.

If the Democrats win, it will allow retention of idea in our polity (a GOP victory means it's gone, by the way... something to think about when talking about "targeting" people)


What is the Goal (4.00 / 1)
To get a more progressive nation?
Well that is my goal.
The question before us today: Is the risk of a step back worth the possible gain?

I would argue that it is. Very possibly it is essential if we want to make any real gains.

But I have a practical streak, A D-5 in a R+10 district is probably enough. A least at the start. I say that as time goes on a D in an R district had better have shifted that district towards the D or they are not doing their job.  


Hope, depair, and strategy (4.00 / 3)
Second, another major issuse concerned the efficacy of challenging and defeating reactionary Democrats.  For the most part, this concern is either born out of chronic cynicism (in which case, I have to ask, why are you posting at Open Left?) or misunderstanding.

Shaw once said, "The power of accurate observation is commonly called 'cynicism' by those who have not got it."  I'm not interested in characterizing my opinions as cynical or even pessimistic (which I think is closer to the mark) -- we're not writing a rap to use at the door or in a meeting.  I'm interested in the truth.

If the truth is that this plan will demand too many resources for too little return, then we should figure that out.  If the truth is that pouring our efforts into electoral fights like this wastes our scarce resources on a battle fought on our opponent's field, then we should figure that out (can't we conceive of revenge that isn't carried out according to the schedule of Congressional elections?).  If the truth is that the US political system is basically incapable of addressing the huge challenges our society faces, no matter how hard we work on elections or standard-issue grassroots lobbying, we need to know that, too.

Is that depressing?  Yes.  Could that suck the air out of the room?  Sure.  But if it's true, it's true.

As to why I personally am here, I'd say it's because as much as I strongly suspect that we, as a society, have fallen off the top of a skyscraper and are now debating how fast to flap our arms on the way down, I am not sure that that's the case.  I come here to be persuaded that there is some faint glimmer of hope.  I also come here because this is one of the few interactive progressive/left blogs I've found that doesn't fetishize electoral politics over pretty much any other means of driving social change.  There are good discussions here about organizing, about social movements, and power, that are much rarer elsewhere.

My gut feeling is that these kinds of electoral fights remind me of WWI trench warfare.


A True Either/Or Thinker (4.00 / 1)
If the truth is that this plan will demand too many resources for too little return, then we should figure that out.

You simply lack the vision to understand that some fights are not optional, even if the short-term payoff matrix can't be certified "AAA" in advance.

As one who's spent far more time on issue activism than party activism in my life, I have very little patience for being lectured on the futility of party politics.

Of course the heavy lifting is done by issue activists.  It always has been and always will be. It takes generations of issue activism to even get the big issues (abolition, women's suffrage, legal equality, etc) on the party radar.  But without the party activists to help carry those fights to their conclusions, they can never be won.

That's why I'm a dyed in the wool both/and type of guy. And it's why I find this sort of mock-sophisticated pose of superiority morally sickening.  You're amazingly similar to the Versailles operative types, only the ideology is different.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Wait, what is your goal in this fight? (4.00 / 2)
You simply lack the vision to understand that some fights are not optional, even if the short-term payoff matrix can't be certified "AAA" in advance.

Great.  You find where I asked for you to certify that, and I'll defend it.  Otherwise, go strawman someone else. I asked for your evaluation, ANY kind of evaluation, of the prospects of success.

You said on the other thread that "assertion is not argument".  I've pointed to a few facts that seem to indicate that these kinds of primary challenges are (a) very hard to win, and (b) not really that threatening to establishment DC.  Your only replies so far have just been ad hominem blather -- encouraging me to commit suicide, condescending to me, calling me names.  Oh, and the strawman I mentioned above.

And now, in saying that some fights are not optional, it sounds to me as if your point is simply to fight the fight, whatever the outcome, not to actually win.

So, is your intention to do whatever it takes to defeat Stupak and/or a couple of the other really terrible Blue Dogs?  If it is, I think it's asinine to just blow off any consideration of how possible it is to get that outcome.  But if the point is just to fight the fight, to demonstrate our élan, then that's a different matter.  It didn't sound that way from your previous posts, but now I'm not sure.

Lastly, I don't think it makes sense to talk about "issue" and "party" activists, because in reality virtually everyone does some of both.  People have chosen and will continue to choose whatever approach seems likely to make the most progress.  My personal sense is that lots of us have tended to overemphasize electoral work (because the results of elections are so clear, because they happen on a set schedule that's easy to plan for, because of the promise of political power, and probably a number of other reasons), and I want to challenge that inclination a bit.


[ Parent ]
Your "Arguements" Don't Pass The Laugh Test (4.00 / 1)
Sorry, but I can't even begin to take your arguments seriously for one simple reason: what I'm suggesting is our version of the very same strategy that conservatives used to pull their party far to right of where it once was.

Naturally, we need to do things a bit differently, and it makes very good sense to argue vigorously over how that should be done.

But to argue that it may not be worthwhile at all is so obviously delusional that I consider it a waste of time to argue with.

I might as well argue with a 9/11 Truther, or someone who thinks the Moon landing was filmed in the desert somewhere.

Not only are such arguments futile.  They give the false impression that the position being argued against has any legitimacy at all.

There may be emotions, attitudes and concerns behind those arguments that are quite legitimate, of course.  But the arguments themselves do more to obscure those legitimate factors than to elucidate them.

And the same is true with your arguments as well.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
More than anything (4.00 / 3)
I think this is an argument for holding the line on abortion rights. It took generations to win these rights. If the whole health care bill has to go down over this, so be it. As for how much it's worth investing in primary challenges, I think it's important but it has to be a contest-by-contest decision.

[ Parent ]
Wrong, wrong, wrong. (0.00 / 0)
Sometimes a thing is as simple as right or wrong.  We haven't got the luxury of a wide array of options like you seem to think we do.  You seem to be very condescending in your response, and it's not helping.

Single-Payer is the ONLY viable public option.

[ Parent ]
The abortion issue is and always has been a right wing ploy (4.00 / 2)

In light of Stupak and company's incredible assault on women's rights, I think it is worth remembering that the corporatists who have been running the Republican Party for the past forty years or so contrived to make the abortion issue a political issue, along with school prayers, to

a) use low information, undiscerning voters to create an electoral base for the GOP since the corporatists were and still are too few to win elections

b) help scuttle the line between church and state

c) deflect public attention from their looting the federal treasury for corporate welfare.

With the aid and financial support of both the corporatists and the church, they have kept on beating these self-righteous drums until the underlying issues of privacy and the right to choose have been swept aside by leading Democrats as well as Republicans.

Since the Democrats who voted for Stupak's amendment are in fact Republicans in Democrat clothing, it is just another example of the Trojan horses that have been led into the middle of the Democratic tent by fellow-traveling, right-leaning Democrats. I include Barack Obama in this deplorable group.

Stupak's amendment is yet another effective distraction that corporatists in both the Democratic and Republican parties have erected to deflect attention from the fact that Congress is giving private sector health insurers another huge giveaway.

Everyone in the country will now be forced to buy insurance from the insurance cartel whose premiums, deductibles and co-pays will rise to cover the costs of insuring everyone and dropping no one so that their profits will not decrease.

That the pro-life voting bloc takes advantage of the situation to force women to bear children is a reflection of the vindictiveness of the male chauvinist mysogenists who continue to hold sway in both the Democratic and Republican parties.


Nancy Bordier is the author of Re-Inventing Democracy: How U.S. Voters Can Get Control of Government and Restore Popular Sovereignty in America. The book can be read free online by clicking here.

A synopsis of the Interactive Voter Choice System can be read by clicking here.
                     


This is nonsense (4.00 / 1)
Look, there are Democrats who are opposed to abortion, for numerous reasons. Deal with it, come up with a strategy that works with this reality. Labeling everyone that opposes abortion a "Republican in sheep's clothing" is just the worst kind of denial and self-righteousness. Okay, maybe not the worst, but it definitely flows against reality.

[ Parent ]
No there aren't. (4.00 / 5)
Anyone who doesn't believe in full citizenship for women is not a Democrat. I don't care how many Obama stickers you have on your prius.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
you're Sadie Baker - you wear your delusions on your sleeves, and have your class warfare and what not always at beck & call.

[ Parent ]
So what if (4.00 / 1)
Ahn "Joseph" Cao decided he wanted to switch parties and become a Democrat, would you welcome him? He seems to have one major stumbling block, doesn't agree with abortion being Jesuit. He's also from Louisiana, more conservative terrain, even among blacks. What's the Southern strategy for white candidates? What are the show-stopper issues and what issues can be compromised?

[Yes, posted for the 3rd time, dying threads. As the comment above implies a lack of understanding of anti-abortion sentiment, we need some kind of ranking of what issues are show-stoppers for being a progressive, what are show-stoppers for even being Democrat, what are uncomfortable but allowable positions, what are the circumstances - regional, demographic, timing, power balance, type of challenge, etc. - that affect this evaluation. If the Democrats are 1 seat away from power, you can play hardball to get the policies you want or softball to get the majority and wait for later. Stupak played the first. But Stupak also has a lifetime 72% rating on crucial progressive issues - I don't think he's a Blue Dog by most definitions of the phrase.]


I want a scalp (4.00 / 4)
Let's face it they will never respect us until there is a twinge of fear in their hearts.

We cannot let this pass. If we do not assert ourselves now the change we have been working for will slip like sand through our fingers and another generation will be lost to the complacency of inertia.


The whole damn thing is Obama's fault (4.00 / 1)
because he didn't use his influenece to get us single payer in the first place. I am starting to hate him. Even Bush could get what he wanted because he was willing to fight for what he wanted. Obama is a house you know what.

what is the point? (0.00 / 0)
If all that is gained is elimination of "pre existing conditions" denial of coverage, how many lives are saved by this change? A small fraction of the 122 per day that die now for lack of care is my guess.

This percentage goes up dramaticly when the calculation is altered to include everyone in coverage. A provision which is also in the house bill.

This developing bill disappoints us all, but we have known that it would since the campaign when Obama continually pushed "health INSURANCE for all" instead of health CARE reform.

We all know the senate bill will be measurably worse than the house bill (if one makes it out of the senate) and the conference will weaken the house bill instead of strengthining the senate bill.

With near 100% of elected repubs and a high % of elected dems representing corporate profit over constituant lives, this is probably the best that can be done at this time.

The good news is; exploiting insurance companies will continue to gouge coustomers with uncontrolled rate increases. This will force this subject to congressional attention again and again with shorter intervals between fights. We are on the peoples side and whial this injustice continues we will gain more and more support, making electorial victories easier as time goes on. And we will have succeded in saveing thousands of lives by this small first step.


Government by organized money is no better than government by organized mob..... FDR


I see the strategy as being this. (0.00 / 0)
Run fierce primaries from the left against every single conservative Democrat, and make sure the primary challengers are vetted.  (We don't want more Obamas and Liebermans in Congress.  We want more Kuciniches and Sanderses.)  I've read this in diaries and comments both here and elsewhere, but we should also try backing strong independent candidates from the left in general elections, especially if primaries fail to send the message to incumbents.We won't be taken seriously by the DNC, the DLC, or any other Democratic Party organization until the base lets the leaders know without a doubt that their power depends on our support, and they've lost it.  Just as the GOP purged itself of ideological undesirables, Democrats need to get rid of the conservatives.  Some might balk at that, but it has to be done.  We're getting killed by our own, and unless we get rid of the cancer in the party, no progressive agenda has a hope in hell of passing.

Single-Payer is the ONLY viable public option.

We Don't Have To Purge Conservatives (0.00 / 0)
As I've demonstrated over and over and over again, conservatives support the welfare state.  The elected conservadems are something quite different.  They are heavily subsidized by the rest of the party, and yet actively work to undermine it's core policies and principles.  Although I would prefer it otherwise, I am not trying to purge the party of elected conservatives.  I just want them to actually represent their districts, rather than using that as a disingenuous excuse.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Oh yes we DO have to purge conservatives. (0.00 / 0)
You don't seem to understand what we're up against.  The Republicans who flocked over to the Democratic Party (like Arlen Specter) didn't change their political stripes along with their party registration.  They're still conservatives, and they still vote as such.  This is just as true for regular voters and activists as it is for politicians.  We can't survive as long as we let conservatives remain in the party to weaken the movement.  It's not pleasant, and in better times it wouldn't be so necessary, but now is not the time for niceties.  The right has its chosen political parties.  The left needs to take one over, and make sure that it represents only the left (and by extension the American people).  Otherwise we'll stay in a divided house in which the conservatives rule the roost and keep pushing us out.

Single-Payer is the ONLY viable public option.

[ Parent ]
Our Three Responses (0.00 / 0)
OK, I think we have three basic moves, and would like to lay out the strategy between them. They are:

a) Primary challenges.
b) Third party challenges with a realistic prospect of success (for 2010, this is the empty set, AFAIK, and it will usually be the empty set, but I'm including it for completeness).
c) Third party challenges where we are willing to be spoilers.

C needs to be used sparingly, but can back up A. Specifically, we can use it to demand what the Republican base got for sacrificing NY-23: that the national party stay out of primaries. Then strategy A becomes much more effective long-term. And the Republicans have just handed us our precedent; after all, there is nothing the Dem party establishment loves to do more than imitate Repubs.

Since we're only going to do a couple of C's, I suggest focusing them where they will have the most legislative impact: on powerful committee chairman. Odds are most of those chairs will move to more progressive hands, and "more progressive hands" constitute the bulk of the caucus.


The Combination of A & C Is The Common Thread Behind My Proposal (0.00 / 0)
That's assumed.

The discussion is primarily about targeting strategies.  And since we can't expect agreement on those, my proposal is to pick the best prospects for each of several targeting strategies.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I realize that (0.00 / 0)
I'm just trying to lay out what seems to me that best logic for when to do which, and what is the proper relationship between the two tactics.

[ Parent ]
B is not always the empty set (0.00 / 0)
While the Independence Party of Minnesota has fallen to the category of none of the above since Jessie won. It can shift from category C to B in a specific race if we were to support the candidate.

In the case of Colin Peterson her is my thinking.

The IP is desperate to remain a player. It has major party status and a party infrastructure. If Dean Barkely thought there was a chance that we could shift 15-20% of Colin's vote to his candidate, you can bet he would jump at the chance. All of a sudden the IP would be attractive to a moderate Republican who could not progress within the current GOP and so that party could mount a real candidate. With their base 10% and our 20% in a three way race anything could happen.

The danger of course is that this would slow the death of the IP in which has hurt Democrats more then Republicans across the state.


[ Parent ]
I realize B may sometimes be possible (0.00 / 0)
One reason I called it out is that the strategic considerations are different than for a spoiler play. I don't know the specific of Minn politics, so I'll defer to you on that, but you make an interesting point. Is the IP interesting other than for Ventura?

[ Parent ]
AFAIK, the IP tends to be fiscally moderate-to-conservative and liberal on social issues (0.00 / 0)
which doesn't really help us on health care. (Someone who knows better correct me if I'm wrong.)

It also serves as a useful outlet for those who want to participate in elections but are sick of Democratic and Republican candidates.

Since they seem to draw about equally from both major parties, I don't think we can really use them as a spoiler one way or another, unless by our machinations we somehow smuggle in a candidate of our choice as the IP nominee.


[ Parent ]
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