Senate will not pass Stupak amendment (Updated)

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 12:30


It can now be safely sated that the Senate will not pass the Stupak amendment.

Because 60 votes are required to attach an amendment to a bill in the Senate, there is no chance that the Senate will include the Stupak amendment in the health care bill it sends to conference committee.  And, there simply are not 60 votes in favor the amendment in the Senate:

Senator Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) said that 60 votes would be needed to strip the current health care bill of its abortion-related language and replace it with a version resembling that passed by the House of Representatives on Saturday. And, in an interview with the Huffington Post, the California Democrat predicted that pro-choice forces in the Senate would keep that from happening.

"If someone wants to offer this very radical amendment, which would really tear apart [a decades-long] compromise, then I think at that point they would need to have 60 votes to do it," Boxer said. "And I believe in our Senate we can hold it."

"It is a much more pro-choice Senate than it has been in a long time," she added. "And it is much more pro-choice than the House."

While it is not clear that the Senate is more pro-choice than the House, even the House did not have 60% in favor of the Stupak amendment.  On Saturday, 240, or 55.2%, of House members voted for the Stupak amendment.

This is a rare situation in 2009 where the 60-vote culture of the Senate actually works in favor of progressives. It is much harder to add an amendment in the Senate than in the House.

Even in the event that the Senate pursues reconciliation for a health care bill, where only a simple majority of Senators would be required, the Stupak amendment could not be included:

By the same token, the Stupak amendment would definitely run afoul of the Byrd rule. This rule dealing with abortion is clearly an "extraneous matter" and the Parliamentarian would rule is as such. It violates the first part of the Byrd rule because it does "not produce a change in outlays or revenues." I see almost no way the Stupak amendment could remain in a bill passed using reconciliation.

It isn't even clear that there are a majority of Senators in favor of the Stupak amendment. For example, the regressive Senate Finance committee already rejected Stupak-type language by majority vote:

On a 13-10 vote, the Senate Finance Committee rejected amendments from Sen. Orrin Hatch that would have the bill conform to current federal law prohibiting direct abortion funding.

Hatch amendment 355 would make it so the Baucus bill "prohibits authorized or appropriated federal funds under this Mark from being used for elective abortions and plans that cover such abortions."

The otherwise party-line vote saw pro-abortion Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe side with Democrats against it and Sen. Kent Conrad of Noth Dakota join Republicans in supporting it.

There are a few anti-choice Democrats in the Senate: Casey (PA), Conrad (ND), Nelson (NE), Reid (NV) and possibly a few more.  However, there are not enough to pass the Stupak amendment in the Senate.  It is a dead letter in that chamber.

The battle over the Stupak amendment will take place in the conference committee.  Supposedly, the White House is in favor of removing the Stupak amendment.  Also, supposedly there are enough House Democrats to kill the overall health care bill if the Stupak amendment is not removed. Further, Stupak himself has claimed that there are enough votes to pass the health care bill in the House without the Stupak amendment.  Right now, it certainly seems as though the tide is turning against Stupak, and his chances of victory before the end are less than 50%.

Update in the extended entry

Chris Bowers :: Senate will not pass Stupak amendment (Updated)
Update: In the comments, liberallatte asks a smart question:

How do we know that Harry Reid isn't going to put it in the bill he's going to introduce in the first place? He is anti-choice himself. or is he prohibited from doing so, because none of the Senate committees adopted the Stupak equivalent?

No, Reid is not prohibited from doing so.  He could, in fact, include the language in the Senate bill if he and the various Senate merger negotiators agreed.

However, Reid has already sent the bill to the CBO for scoring, and that version did not include the Stupak amendment. Also, Reid today came out in opposition to the language:

At a Capitol Hill event this morning, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid implied that the Stupak amendment exceeds the strictures of the years-old Hyde amendment which prohibits federal funds from financing abortions. "I expect that the bill that will be brought to the floor will ensure..no federal contribution to abortion, and that [the] rights of providers, health care facilities like Catholic hospitals, are protected," Reid said. "The one thing that we're certain to do is to maintain what we have had in the past. I had the good fortune, as did Senator Durbin to serve with Henry Hyde, the Hyde amendment has been a pretty good way to go through this last couple of decades."

To put it a different way, Reid is going with the status-quo, Hyde-amendment, rather than the extreme Stupak amendment.

That could change, but it is worth being vigilant.


Tags: , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Martha Coakley needs help in MA Senate race (0.00 / 0)
Martha has been clear from the start of her campaign (see Hardball on day one of her race;  http://tiny.cc/kZ0pR )  that she could never vote for a health care reform bill that restricted a women's right to choose.  Now that she is sticking to her principled position she is getting destroyed by her opponents and the media.  Seems that the national progressives are far more in tune with her than the so-called MA libs. Could it be the old boys club at work here?
She needs national help.  Please consider donating and getting involved.

grassroots; http://womenforcoakley.com  or campaign:  marthacoakley.com  


Please justify your depiction of Coakley as a strong progressive (4.00 / 3)
I am a Massachusetts voter under the impression that Capuano is rather more progressive than Coakley, although her record is thin.  But I'm open to persuasion.  Why do you think Coakley will be a powerful voice for progressivism worthy of representing us in the Senate?  All else being equal, I would prefer another woman in the Senate, but at present I am far from convinced that all else is equal.  Please elaborate.

[ Parent ]
MA Senate campaign (0.00 / 0)
As another undecided Massachusetts voter (especially one who lives abroad), I feel like I need more information.  Any campaign where the candidates are all claiming to be the most progressive of the bunch is great.  But I want our next senator to be a Ted Kennedy (or a Paul Wellstone or a Bernie Sanders) instead of another Kerry.  My gut instinct is to vote for Capuano, who has an extensive record* and has been a generally reliable progressive in the House, although he's basically been content to remain out of the spotlight.  But I'm certainly open to persuasion, and I'd consider voting for either Coakley or Khazei if I thought either could become a really influential progressive voice in the Senate.

*Try looking here or here.


[ Parent ]
How do we know that Harry Reid (0.00 / 0)
isn't going to put it in the bill he's going to introduce in the first place? He is anti-choice himself. or is he prohibited from doing so, because none of the Senate committees adopted the Stupak equivalent?  

that's a good point (0.00 / 0)
Will update with response.

[ Parent ]
thanks for the update (0.00 / 0)
and yes, we need to be vigilant to stop Reid from caving in to filibuster threats from the likes of Ben Nelson.

Also Senate is just the first step in the struggle; we need to work hard to get it stripped in the Conference as well.  


[ Parent ]
I'm also not comfortable with the numbers.. (0.00 / 0)
We know all of the Senate Republicans would likely support Stupak language - that's 40 votes.  

Does anyone seriously believe Harry Reid and friends couldn't coax 20 Dems - in the current climate - to make the 60 votes??
I don't trust Harry on this subject - at all.

Remember we only had 30 out of '60' who stood up for the PO.


Nationalism is not the same thing as terrorism, and an adversary is not the same thing as an enemy.


[ Parent ]
A further note of warning.. (0.00 / 0)
From our math whiz friend Nate Silver:

"...I was surprised at the number of Democrats who have solid pro-choice voting records but who nevertheless voted for Stupak Amendment."

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com...

When Nate is surprised, we should all take heed..

Nationalism is not the same thing as terrorism, and an adversary is not the same thing as an enemy.


[ Parent ]
They obviously traded votes (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Furthermore... (4.00 / 3)
To the Quick Hit from the other day, smart progressives would out Stupak and his involvement with The Family, his residence at the C Street house, and other fun stuff. Make Stupak toxic between now and when this issue comes up again. Let's hope pro-choice advocates will loudly out Stupak early and often from now till then.

Martyrdom (0.00 / 0)
also has its selling points. Not that I don't agree that the Family needs some serious attention from the media. They and their minions need a strong shot of sunshine.

I just don't think it will be as toxic as you hope. They'll be seen as martyrs slain by the godless left.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Nah (0.00 / 0)
Democrats can't be Martyrs.  This may be one time the bias works in our favor.

[ Parent ]
Christians make excellent martyrs (4.00 / 1)
Some folks are more christain than democratic.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
It would still be worth giving Senators like Casey (0.00 / 0)
Study the Faces (0.00 / 0)

"Those who cry out the loudest against abortion are the ones born of  unwanted pregnancies, or aborted in a previous life, and the experience is stamped in their characters.

You see them picketing abortion clinics during the morning drive by hours. They look like zombies, marching up and down, a super serious, wrenched-from-the-pre-birth womb look on their faces.

Always, in any conversation, they slip in their personal driving force at the end. 'Would you like that to happen to you?'" Because it happened to them!"


- Michael Stephen Levinson (slightly modified)



Among the optimum scenarios left (4.00 / 1)
in this health care debacle is a GOP filibuster.

So yes, strip Stupak out, and tempt the GOP to kill the total bill on that account.

Maybe after a few more convincing Democratic wins we can fashion a proper bill.


Boxer's fuzzy math (0.00 / 0)
Bear in mind that the GOP's goal is to kill the bill, and extending the period over which floor action takes place is fine by them.

Senate 101 is that there is no way except via cloture to force a vote on any amendment.

There is the motion to table an amendment - nondebatable, passing on a simple majority - which, if passed, kills the amendment. But a vote on an amendment which survives a motion to table still cannot be forced except via cloture.

The hypothesis underlying the discussion is that there are more than 50 but less than 60 votes on Stupak in the Senate (assuming all senators vote). A motion to table would be defeated, but there would not be enough votes from Stupak supporters to pass cloture.

On the other hand, one often sees senators vote for cloture on a bill or amendment and then against the bill or amendment.

I'm not sure how the more than 50 but less than 60 situation would play out.

But Boxer's analysis of the situation is skimpy to the point of non-existence.

Plus - there's no reason why antiabortionists and fellow-travelers should get hung up on the Stupak wording: I'm sure they could come up with a kinder, gentler amendment that does pretty much the same thing, but with throb in its voice. Dems voting for it could maintain that they were against Stupak, and offering a constructive alternative to it, in a typical Gang of N tone of collegiality and sweet reason...

As for Bowers' It can now be safely sated (sic!) that the Senate will not pass the Stupak amendment, apparently wholly in reliance on the Boxer snippet, it smacks of the British PM Neville Chamberlain in April 1940 confidently proclaiming that 'Hitler had missed the bus'. (In May, Hitler invaded France.)


I also want to point out just how much better of (4.00 / 1)
"we" are having passed the bill in the house, even with the immaterial Stupak Amendment.

Had he listened to the bomb-throwers, the Democrats would have been responsible for the death of the bill. Game. Set. Match.

Now it is certain that

1: A bill passes.

2: A bill is killed by the right (the better outcome given the rancid nature of the bill)

Calm rational thinkers 1, bomb-throwers 0.


You're killing me Chris.. (0.00 / 0)
Do you seriously trust Harry "No I never told Joe Lieberman I would give him his seniority back" Reid to suddenly take control over the abortion language,  when he lost/gave up control of the whole frigging thing long ago.

He wanted to drag this thing out to March - and now has a damn good excuse to do just that.

 

Nationalism is not the same thing as terrorism, and an adversary is not the same thing as an enemy.


Dem leadership isn't THAT stupid (0.00 / 0)
They know the only way they get elected is because women (1) turn out more heavily and (2) vote more reliably Dem.  Reid simply cannot be reelected if he pisses off the women of Nevada and I presume he knows that.

And Obama would be sleeping in the Oval Office for the remainder of his (single) term if this passes and he knows that.  That's why he made the statement he made today.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]





Donate to Open Left




blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you
USER MENU

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search