The Congressional MoveOn Madness: Shaking Off The Demons

by: Paul Rosenberg

Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 11:10


The recent behavior of Congress approaches the level of clinical insanity.  This is not snark.  It's reality-based observation.  And such observation is vitally necessary in order to not sucked into the insanity ourselves. I want to explain precisely what I mean, and I want to present some reference points, so we may appreciate how deep and long-standing this insanity is.

Otherwise, quite frankly, the French Revolution option starts to look mighty good.  And we all know how badly that turned out. Just because we are ruled by an imbecilic, out-of-touch, gang of narcissistic twits does not mean we should kill them all.  Actions have consequences.  They may not know it, but damn sure better.  And so it behooves us to find a place of sanity from which to observe, analyze, and start to correct this sea of madness that threatens to engulf us.

And make no mistake, it is a sea of madness.  One that we have all been swimming in from at least 1995, when the GOP took over Congress.  If we think it started with 9/11, we are deluding ourselves, and one consequence of that delusion is that we expect Beltway Democrats to recover their sanity mush faster than they are actually capable of.  Of course, it's eminently reasonable to expect to be governed by people who are sane.  But we have not been a reasonable nation for a very long time now.

Paul Rosenberg :: The Congressional MoveOn Madness: Shaking Off The Demons
Clearing The Decks

First, let's get clear on the basic fact of the madness.  What did MoveOn say?  Did MoveOn criticize the military? (Gasp!)  No, in fact, MoveOn did not.  Did MoveOn attack the military?  No, in fact, MoveOn did the precise opposite:  It defended the military by pointedly asking if the troops were being sold out for a political purpose.  And the people who mounted this attack on MoveOn were precisely those who have been selling out the military since day one.

This is projection, folks, pure and simple.  Pot. Kettle. Black.  It's been the dominant form of political discourse since the GOP took over Congress in 1994.

Consider.  Here is the military's own summary of its "lessons learned" from the Vietnam War.  It came to be known as "The Powell Doctrine," because it was prominently articulated by Colin Powell around the time of the First Gulf War.  But in fact it did not come from Powell personally.  If was a consensus judgment, and for the military as an institution, it made a lot of sense.  Here it is:

The questions posed by the Powell Doctrine, which should be answered affirmatively before military action, are:
  1. Is a vital national security interest threatened?
  2. Do we have a clear attainable objective?
  3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
  4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
  5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
  6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
  7. Is the action supported by the American people?
  8. Do we have genuine broad international support?

By now, the fiasco of Iraq is so well-known that simply to pose these questions is to indict the Bush Administration.  Every single question can unambiguously be answered in the negative.  And this is not simply something that we can say with the wisdom of hindsight.  This was obvious as events were unfolding.

So, here's the simple construction:

(1) The military developed the "Powell Doctrine" as its set of lessons learned from Vietnam, to protect itself in the future, and thus to protect its ability to defend America.

(2) Bush carelessly discarded the "Powell Doctrine", thus severely damaging the military and  its ability to defend America.

(3) Bush hates the troops. He treats them with utter contempt.  General staff that chooses to do his bidding aligns itself with Bush, and against the troops entrusted to their care.

(4) Criticizing officers who betray the troops is defending the troops against their betrayal.

Taking the Measure of Insanity

Without even thinking about it, most of us have our political clocks set to the time-scale of 9/11.  This is where we go terribly wrong.  If our collective political insanity really had started then, then it would be perfectly normal to expect that madness to be wearing off.  The election of a Democratic Congress nearly a year ago should have signaled a sharp turning point.

But this assumption is wrong.  And it's not just that the Democrats actually controlled the Senate when they voted to authorize war with Iraq in 2002.  It's wrong because we had already experienced more than half a decade of madness before 9/11.  Indeed, we have every reason to believe that that period of madness was why 9/11 happened in the first place.

If you think that a President getting a blow-job is the greatest crisis in the history of American government, then it pretty much goes without saying that you're missing the big picture.  And that big picture includes people plotting to destroy the Twin Towers, the Pentagon and the White House and/or Congress.

To gain some perspective on that madness, I want to quote from a document--a collection of email posts, actually--from the pre-blog era.  These are from Phil Agre, whose essay, "What Is Conservatism and What is Wrong With It?" also figured prominently in post-2004 election discussions at MyDD, and was the first subject of the first Book Club discussion there.

Like that essay, the posts collected in this document--Notes On The New Jargon came from Agre's email list, the Red Rock Eater Newsletter, which had around 5,000 subscribers as I recall--a pretty considerable audience for the time.  Some were written during the 2000 Florida election contest, some earlier in 2000, and a couple in 1998 and 1999.  The document as a whole runs over 30,000 words, and is well worth reading in its entirety.  But here are just a few choice excerpts, worth reading both for their invaluable insight, and for the reminder of just how long things have been going on like this:

12/9/00

The Florida Supreme Court's order to finally count the votes in the presidential election should not have been a surprise.  Republicans in Florida insist on counting illegal ballots and not counting legal ballots, and accuse the Democrats of stealing the election for insisting otherwise.  Florida Republicans stole the 1998 Miami mayor's race using illegal absentee ballots, and now they insist that illegal absentee ballots be counted in the 2000 race, and excoriate the Democrats for circulating a memo that summarizes Florida absentee ballot laws.  It's incredible.

Meanwhile the Republicans accuse the Democrats of trying to change the rules after the election simply for going to court to make the election boards follow the Florida election law, even as the Republican Florida legislature attempts to change the rules after their election with their utterly illegal attempt to replace the citizens' votes with their own.

We see here the central principle of the new jargon: whatever you're doing, falsely accuse your opponents of doing it.  Now the far-rightwing of the US Supreme Court has engaged in the most extreme case of judicial activism in American history, staying action by the Florida Supreme Court under the very clear authority granted to the Florida courts by the Florida legislature, shutting down the contest procedure that Florida law provides and thus effectively throwing the election to its preferred conservative choice.  In response to all of this,the sidewalk of the federal building in Los Angeles is filled with right-wing protesters whose signs use words like "fascism" and "evil"-- to describe what the Florida court did.

This is what actually happened to bring George Bush to power.  It was so bad that, for instance, Agre was one of the few public commentators to actually note at the time something that has been totally flushed down the memory hole--there never even was a full Florida recount in the first place.  A significant chunk of counties did not recount their ballots as required by law, but simply re-ran the tabulation software.  This could readily be seen at the time, since they were the counties that had identical vote totals for the original count and the recount--something that virtually never happens with more than a few thousand votes.

Did this make a difference in the outcome?  We'll never know.  But it is fully indicative of how utterly lawless the process was, left to itself, and how utterly incompetent the media was in reporting on it.  These are the filters through which all the known outrageous need to be viewed.

Agre continues:

America is now Upside-Down-Backwards Land; it is filled with people who are capable of doing anything, because whatever they do, no matter how crazy or extreme, they hallucinate that it is really being done to them. How do they get themselves into that state?  Let me give you an example. Looking at the map of which American states voted for which presidential candidate, conservative pundit Mike Barnicle remarked on MSNBC that the southern and middle states, which voted for Bush, represented "family values", and that the northeastern and west-coast states, which voted for Gore, represented "entitlement".

In a normal country this sort of thing would be denounced as ugly and divisive stereotyping.  Instead, Gore supporter Paul Begala responded in a polite way by arguing that the situation is more complicated, and that every state has both good and bad aspects.  To illustrate this, and clearly in that context, he pointed out that the states that Barnicle praised where also the states where James Byrd was lynched, Matthew Shepard was crucified, a federal office building was blown up, and so on.  He continued by repeating that each of those states also has good attributes, and repeated that the picture is complicated.  He concluded by calling Barnicle a "gifted commentator".

Then Peggy Noonan, writing in the Wall St. Journal, took out of context the bit about the Bush states being places where people got lynched and crucified and so on, and presented it as if Begala were claiming that those events defined the states they happened in.  She mentioned nothing of Barnicle's comments, or of the message about things being complicated. Noonan's out-of-context quote was then repeated over and over by the conservative media echo chamber, Michael Kelly in the Washington Post for example. 

The quote bounced all over the Internet, and was mailed tome by several different people.  In each case, starting with Noonan, the argument was the same: this is the viciousness of Democrats to which we must respond in kind.  Can you see the projection?  Republican columnist issues vicious stereotype of Democratic states.  Nobody expresses outrage. Democrat responds that the picture is complicated and that stereotypes do not apply.  Republicans quote Democrat out of context, accusing him of issuing vicious stereotype of Republican states, using said accusation to justify further vicious behavior of their own.  That's how it works.

That's the ways it's done: hysterical rightwing propaganda is normalized, and not even liberal, but a purely factual centrist observation is demonized as vicious and hateful.

(Of course, Begala could have said something much more damning and appropriate to the specifics of Barnicle's claims: It is the the northeastern and west-coast states, which voted for Gore, which supposed "represented 'entitlement'", that are by in large net donors to the federal government, and the Bush red states that live off of federal money.  Likewise, the southern and middle states, which voted for Bush and supposedly  "represented 'family values'", are the ones with the highest divorce rates.

But, of course, Begala would never say such a thing.  After all, he's one of the ones they let onto tv.) 

Here's one final quote from that first email in the document:

Here's another example.  The Republicans have incessantly used the word "selective" to suggest that there is something wrong with the Florida law that allows a party to an election to ask for recounts in particular counties.  This law is not remotely unusual, and Republicans have asked for recounts under similar laws in many jurisdictions.

Now, however, they claim to discern a 14th amendment equal-protection problem, an idea that the courts have basically laughed at.  Like so many words of the new jargon, the word "selective" is nicely ambiguous: it has one meaning that is true but trivial, and another meaning that is menacing but false.

The true-but-trivial meaning is simply that the recounts are to be held in some jurisdictions and not others; a more suitable word might perhaps be "selected".  But "selective" carries a negative connotation that the selection has been made in an arbitrary, unfair, or biased way, and this is the second, menacing, false meaning -- false because, as everyone on a sane planet would clearly recognize, the Republicans had a perfectly equal right to ask for recounts of their own, and simply declined to do so.

This starts to get into the sort of linguistic analysis that Agre excels at, unravelling how two different frameworks interact with one another to obfuscate and confuse.

Another thing Agre does is illuminate how projection works in larger context.  This is from the next emai in the document:

(1) The words "partisan" and "bias".  In the time that I have been writing about the current elections, I have received perhaps 100 messages telling me nothing except that I am either "partisan" or "biased".  These words are outstanding examples of the perversity of the current jargon.  The first entered into circulation when some Americans called people like Newt Gingrich "partisan" for doing things like training political candidates to describe their opponents with words like decay, sick, pathetic, stagnation, corrupt, and traitors (LA Times 12/19/94).

The jargon-speakers did something characteristic with this: they accused their opponents of identifying as "partisan" any views other than their own.  Notice how this works: it inflates the word, deletes all mention of the justification for using it, and projects both of these moves onto Them.

Next, they started using the word "partisan" in the inflated, dishonest way that they had ascribed to their opponents.  Again very characteristically, this gave them the cover they needed to go around irrationally abusing people: it let them think "they're really the ones who are doing this to us".

This is one reason why the speakers of the new jargon so cherish the slights that they sometimes experience: they now have new cover to employ in abusing people.  What is more, the word "partisan", like the word "bias", now means nothing except "you have a different opinion than mine", except that having a different opinion is now ipso facto wrong -- not just mistaken but improper.

Faced with the discomfort of differing views, you can now release the tension by flinging these empty words, thereby assaulting people while feeling inwardly that you are standing up for morality.  And if they have a problem with that, then of course you can ask surprised and accuse them of abusing you.

These quotes, although somewhat long, only scratch the surface of this collected work on jargon. The point of my presenting it, again, is two-fold: first, to introduce folks to some powerful insights, and second to remind us all of just how long things have been this crazy.  Because we live in America, rather than Versailles, it's a lot easier for us to see through all this BS.  But if you're living right in the middle of it, and if you have done so for years, then this sort of insanity becomes "normal" and normal thought comes to seem insane.

Speaking of insanity, here's one final excerpt before I sign off:

9/3/00

American culture is going insane.  I'm not sure that I mean this in a clinical way, but I do mean it.  In "The Divided Self", R. D. Laing described the experience of going insane, and I think that his model applies well.  Insanity, he says, starts with "ontological insecurity", which is a doubt about whether one's own self exists.  People who suffer from ontological insecurity are unhappy, and they may even be crazy, but they are not insane.  Insanity starts when the individual decides that his or her own personality is evil, and that they are obligated to destroy it.

American culture has always been prone to ontological insecurity, ever since Europe exported all of its religious fanatics to us. Not all religious people are crazy; indeed, true religion is the cure for craziness.  Rather, Europe was raked for centuries by horrific wars and epidemics, and the cultural upshot of these experiences in a deeply religious and badly educated society was religious fanaticism.

In the American context, religious fanaticism rapidly turned into a politics of conspiracy theories, and that politics has returned periodically to the surface ever since.  Conspiracy theories are precisely but a kind of political psychosis driven by ontological insecurity: a doubt that the institutions of the country even exist.

This takes extreme forms with wackos, mostly on the right but on the left as well, who believe that the United States Constitution was officially repealed in the 1930s, or any number of other wild scenarios.  But ontological insecurity was also a dominant theme of 1990s mass culture, for example in the X-Files -- to be sure a great show, but very much a product of the encapsulated psychosis of American conspiratism.

But it wasn't just craziness that came to the surface in the 1990s, but insanity as well: the delusional belief that one has an obligation to destroy one's own personality.  And this insanity was found equally on the left and right.  The self-destruction of the country's cultural personality is easy to find: look for either anger or humor that gets its bite by stigmatizing and then punching through some boundary of morality or conscience.

On the left, the highest product of American cultural insanity is "South Park", whose humor consisted precisely of -- as the patter goes -- "breaking taboos".  Why is it funny to see little kids cussing their faces off?  Because it's a blow for freedom against the uptight ayatollahs of the religious right who don't like it.

On the right, the highest product of American cultural insanity is Rush Limbaugh.  His humor works the same way: those politically correct jerks on the left are oppressing us, so we have to stand up for freedom by, for example, instructing a black caller to get the bone out of his nose.  In a normal world this would be racist garbage, but in the insane world of Limbaugh it's a courageous act of standing up to the intimidation of liberal thought control.  The very fact that "they" don't like it *obligates* us to do it.

This sense of continually, purposefully punching through the barriers of conscience is exactly the process of making oneself insane.  It becomes a habit of mind, and as one's conscience is slowly cut away one becomes less and less capable of rational thought.

I would disagree with Agre that "South Park" is on the left, although they definitely appeal to some folks on the left. But the rest of this seems amazingly spot on to me.  Who has ever pegged Rush better than this?--his whole purpose is making his audience insane... and proud of it!

All the above strongly suggests that what we are up against is not just "crazy" in some vernacular sense.  It is actually crazy in a clinical sense.  Books like "Bush on the Couch" are not just sly digs, they are survival manuals.  And not nearly enough of our representatives in Versailles are surviving.

I do not have a 10-point plan for dealing with this.  But I think we need to start a very serious dialogue about how we go about deprogramming an entire village, a subculture that rules America and dominates the world.

The problem clearly is not just Bush, not just the Administration, not just the Republicans, or even the Conservative noise machine and its "mainstream" echo chamber.  The problem has deeply infected the Democrats as well.  And we need to be thinking about basic mental first aid on a mass basis.


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As If We Needed More Proof Of Who's Anti-Military... (4.00 / 1)
A diary by Brandon Friedman "Army Disowns Republicans One Week Too Late", frontpaged at DKos, notes:

The Washington Post reported yesterday that the Army is now saying 15-month deployments without a proper recovery time are "not sustainable."  Again, this is exactly what the Webb-Hagel Amendment was all about-that is, until it was torpedoed by Republican al Qaeda supporters in the Senate last week.

Sorta says it all, now, doesn't it?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Cultural Complexes (0.00 / 0)
It sounds like you are describing a set of cultural complexes. I'm reading a book on the subject right now, in search of insights into how we can go about fixing the problem you point to.

Don't Hold Out Like That! (0.00 / 0)
What's the book?

Tell us a little about it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Mental fist aid on a mass basis (0.00 / 0)
Paul,
I just printed your post and read the last graf as it came off the printer.  I think you hit a key nail on the head regarding the need for "mental first aid on a mass basis" (or as you put it in the preceding graf, "deprogramming an entire village").  While there are many key tasks that lay ahead, I think this mass-scale mental first aid is among the most fundamental.  While extremely challenging, it may ultimately be essential, and would certainly have broad and highly leveragable benefits, to the extent it can be achieved.  And it is, of course, tied to a range of media- and communication-related issues and questions tied to today's mass "craziness" and strategies that can start to reverse it.
Time to read the rest of your post over a belated breakfast.

The Obvious Response To MoveOn's Ad That Dems Were Too Addled To Make (4.00 / 1)
Okay, say for a moment I bought the idea that the MoveOn ad was a bad idea.  Does that automatically mean it has to be a disaster?  Not in the least!

How hard would it have been for Democrats to turn the ad to their advantage?  Easy as falling off a log.

Also from DKos, this time a recommended diary by  DarkSyde:

One week ago Senate Republicans sunk a shiv deep into the back of US combat troops to prove their loyalty to the most unpopular President in living memory by killing the Webb Amendment. Traditional media downplayed it, and instead spent the next week asking every democratic pundit, candidate, and sitting lawmaker about MoveOn. On its face, that would appear to be another episode of the media focusing on an issue that helps the GOP and portrays Democrats in a bad light. Boohoo! Except, what exactly would have stopped the progressive advocate from deftly turning the tables on the GOP each and every time that dynamic played out by sticking up for the troops?

How hard would it have been, each and every time you were put on the spot on cable news opposite a conservative apologist, to simply use the MoveOn question as a frictionless segue to challenge that neocon shill to support the troops by pledging to support the Webb Amendment? Democrats, you tell me: You do have control over what words you speak, right? You're physically in possession of your larynx? You're not a puppet, hmm?

So, whenever your anti-cognate on the right brought up the MoveOn ad, what irresistible force was it that prevented you from responding with "Mr. Wingnut, I understand we're all concerned for the troops, so how about you join me right now in pledging to support the Webb Amendment guaranteeing our brave men and women in harm's way a decent amount of time with their families in between combat tours?" Repeat as needed: MoveOn --> troops --> Webb --> Challenge--> Ask for pledge. See how beautifully that flows? Do it in as many formats in as many versions as you wish, until Mr Wingnut answers, evades and squirms, or the time runs out. And please, for crying out loud, no complaints the politicians are helpless in dodging a question or answering a different one than what was asked.



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

Or more simply, (4.00 / 1)
what you said: "Did MoveOn criticize the military? (Gasp!)  No, in fact, MoveOn did not.  Did MoveOn attack the military?  No, in fact, MoveOn did the precise opposite:  It defended the military by pointedly asking if the troops were being sold out for a political purpose.  And the people who mounted this attack on MoveOn were precisely those who have been selling out the military since day one." And then follow up, point by point with the "Powell doctrine".

I think the far more important question is, what's wrong with criticizing the military? I think the Dem/liberal buy-in to the military-worship cult is either a primary symptom or a prime cause of the insanity. We are supposedly not a military dictatorship. It seems that the more fraudulent and pointless the war, the more we stampede to heap baseless praise on our soldiers and demonization on Theirs. Most theories, I believe, put cognitive dissonance at the top of the list of insane-making pathogens. The need of Dems/liberals to hate the war and love to death the ones who carry it out cannot be sustained forever and allow the mind to remain intact -- especially when that stalker-level obsessiveness is focused tightly on a military bureaucrat who is still trying to sell his own failed strategy.

We will know we're on the path to recovery when "military intelligence" is once again the first example that comes to mind when trying to explain what an oxymoron is.


[ Parent ]
What's More Important? (0.00 / 0)
I think the far more important question is, what's wrong with criticizing the military? I think the Dem/liberal buy-in to the military-worship cult is either a primary symptom or a prime cause of the insanity.

This is possible, but I don't think so.  That's part of the reason why I wrote this piece the way I did, quoting so heavily from Agre, who isn't talking about the military at all.  I think that the problem we face is far more general, although the pathological desire for a strong daddy figure to make all the demons go away certainly plays a key role in all this, and contributes enormously to mindless militarism as well.

The need of Dems/liberals to hate the war and love to death the ones who carry it out cannot be sustained forever and allow the mind to remain intact

But this need not be crazy-making, as the potent example of Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW) dramatically illustrated over 30 years ago.  And the peace movement ever since then has been deeply infused with veterans and their families.  It's the intense need to suppress awareness of this dynamic that drives a good deal of the crazy-making in the mainstream culture.

Don't forget, Military Families Speak Out formed very quickly, as did Gold Star Mothers For Peace and Iraq Veterans Against The War.  This was no accident.  It's a direct result of the trauma of the Vietnam War, and the tremendous amount of important work done by VVAW, Veterans for Peace and others since then.

The chickenhawks really are the farthest away from all of this.  Maybe it's easier for me to see this, simply because I am from the Vietnam generation, and as a dirty fucking hippy I met hundreds of Vietnam Vets hitch-hicking across the country who spilled their guts out to me, unable to talk to their friends and family, but knowing intuitively that I was someone they could say anything at all to.  I have simply never seen them as the enemy.  They are victims.  Even the ones who have committed atrocities.  For I have never met one of them who set out to commit atrocities.  That was all from the higher-ups.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Webb's movie (4.00 / 1)
Jim Webb wrote the story and produced a 2000 movie called "Rules of Engagement" starring Tommy Lee Jones, Samuel L. Jackson, and Ben Kingsley.  The core of the movie was, as Tommy Lee's character said repeatedly, "A Marine does not leave anothe Marine out to dry."  It's pretty clear how I interpret this in the context of MoveOn.  A Democrat does not let another Democrat be slandered without fighting back.  Webb certainly did not see it this way.  He wanted to protect Petraeus's image rather than protecting either the troops or the Democrats.

That long list of freshman Democrats who took MoveOn's money and were elected with MoveOn's help and then voted to condemn MoveOn broke that code.  Is Marsha Blackburn going to contribute $100,000 to your campaign?  Was the ad factually true?

Then what in God's name encourages you to turn on MoveOn rather than snapping back at Blackburn and her GOP friends?  Democrats lose because they appear "weak" and this was as snivelling as they come.  Fir decades MoveOn will be blacklisted by the right in the same terms as the McCarthyites blasted "Communist front" organizations and GOPers assault Michael Moore.  Maybe worse because Democrats gave them the ammunition.  This was dying off the newspaper pages.  I can't find the vote count on the usual sites (Thomas, Washington Post, google searches on MNarsha Blackburn).  And you caved?  Why?


Why They Caved: A Culture of Insanity (4.00 / 2)
The first rule of conservatives: everything they accuse others of is true of them.

Application:

Projection: For decades they have accused liberals of creating a depraved culture that undermines individual morality.  This discourse has focused on the welfare state, separation of church and state, and the 1960s.

Reality:  Conservatives created a culture of insanity in which they call people names all the time and Democrats cower.  MoveOn broke the rules of this culture, and got mobbed for it in a 5-minute hate.



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
It's not just Democrats (4.00 / 1)
I've lost track of how many times I've seen here and at other lefty blogs people stating that MoveOn called Petreus a traitor, or that they were engaging in character assassination, or that they were attacking the military, when they did none of those things.  But that's been the right-wing spin on it, and many people who would consider themselves good lefties have been spun as well.

[ Parent ]
That's Quite True (0.00 / 0)
The Congressional Democrats are responding to a Beltway-centric, but by no means Beltway-only, political culture and environment that affects a much wider range of people.  The workings of this culture are explicable in part through the Gramscian theory of cultural hegemony, which is the implicit (soon to be explicit) theme behind the series of posts I began last weekend.

However, Gramscian theory generally has assumed competing rational worldviews in a struggle for determinig the ideological content of "common sense."  This is clearly not the case here.  So we need to be thinking in terms of two different--though related--projects.  One is be developing our own institutions, including media, so that people don't mindlessly parrot rightwing propaganda without even realizing what they're doing.  The other is that one thing those institutions need to do is restore basic sanity to our political discourse.  This is a multifaceted project, but one part of the task is to learn to recognize the patterns of jargon that Agre talks about.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Pot - Kettle -Black Projection (0.00 / 0)
Is certainly the dominant theme in US political discourse.  Such is clearly the basis for the "Vote for our party because we are not the other party" mentality that drives every election cycle.

You point to 1994 as the start of this politics of projection and perhaps that is true, but perhaps it came about a bit earlier.  I became "politically aware" during the Watergate hearings (I was about 12 years old and the first time I remember realizing that I actually had a federal government - as opposed to the one described in history class - was when I saw John Deam weep on national TV.  Maybe a story for another day).  My point is: P-K-B Projection has been the basic fact of national politics ever since I started paying attention to them.  Maybe I over simplify, but Cater was elected because he was NOT a crook like Nixon.  Then Reagan was elected because he was NOT a wimp like Carter.  Then Clinton was elected because he was NOT an economic idiot like Bush.  And then Bush was elected because he was NOT a immoral liberal like Clinton.  Now, some one will get elected because they are NOT an inept war-mongerer like Bush.

I think its important to understand when this phenomena began to take root in the US electorate because by understanding the source - one might be able to undo it.

I'm not certain that characterizing it as a "psychosis" is the best analogy (although you make a strong case) because that implies that such can be "cured", or treated - as if it were an organic and natural product of our collective minds.  Perhaps I will be labeled as a conspiracy theorist, but I rather believe that this "sickness" has been promoted (if not created) by the ruling elite - the corporate aristocrats and blue-blood bankers.  I don't think that this "conspiracy" requires any more collusion than shared interest in maintaining the power (economic, military and political) in the control of those that have it.  No one had to plan this scenario. No secret cabal had to meet in a star chamber to work out the details - all it took was seeing how the trends were tending, and then working to promote those trends.  An accidental conspiracy of shared interests in the rarified space of the ruling classes.  No evil master-mind - just a lack of attention by those who might have nipped it in the bud.

I'd place the birth date of the PKB projection in the end-game of WW2.  Right about the time that Ike was warning us about the Military/Industrial/Congressional complex.  But, really, hasn't that ALWAYS been the cabal at the center of human political endeavors?  Armies - Technology - and the Leadership?  So maybe that's just the way humans deal with their politics - as far as I can tell it has NEVER been a bad thing to be rich and well-connected in ANY human political group - from hunter/gatherers to representative democracies. 

But - WW2 changed the rules of the game in a very fundamental way.  It essentially invalidated warfare as a "useful" tool for empirical expansion.  Yes, I'm talking about nuclear weapons and M.A.D.  Oh, small, regional conflicts might still end with one nation actually "winning" the war, but one the grand scale - no one could win a war - the best result was a radioactive draw. Whereas the military component of the complex had been dominant in the pre-nuke age - the industrial and congressional components became more dominant in the Cold War era.  The military was recast as cash cow  - wars became "low intensity conflicts" that were basically promoted to make money for the industrialists and hobble the economies of less developed lands.  Oh yeah - and they made excellent campaign slogans too - not that anyone every actually ENDED the cycle of these conflicts - but it gave them something to talk about, while they rifled your wallet.  (pun intended).

Inevitably, perhaps, the Corporo-Military Politians began to convergently evolve under the steady selection of expensive campaigns and aristocratic tastes.  Now - there are so few actual differences between the right wing Republican and the Left wing Democrat that any substantive debate is pre-emptively negated.  What's left?  PKB - Vote me because I am not them.

Most recent example of the lack of GOP/Democrat divide (other than on social issues that are more a personal choice, rather than the realm of political discourse) was provided by Duncan Hunter on the PBS NewsHour last evening.  he pointed out the each of the GOP front-runners - Romney, Guliani, and McCain - had recently sponsored one bill, or another with the uber-Liberal Ted Kennedy. 

So, in my analysis, the situation is less a political psychosis and more a last ditch effort by the Main Stream Parties to maintain the illusion that they really are different in some fundamental way, when in fact, they are two sides of the same coin. 

Yes - actions have consequences - but that applies to all actions, not just those that might include breaking a political party.  If our current political situation is one in which "America is now Upside-Down-Backwards Land" - perhaps the "proper" response is to act in a manner which is backwards and upside down. Maybe its time to tear down the parties, rather than build them up?  Maybe its a time for inaction, rather than action.  Say what you will about the world described by Ayn Rand - but Atlas Shrugged was nothing, if not a depiction of what might be accomplished by NOT PLAYING along - by withholding participation in a corrupt system. 



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


Woah, There, Buddy! (4.00 / 1)
First off, I didn't mean to imply that this phenomena started in 1995.  That was simply when the GOP took over Congress, and what had been a constant undercurrent became an ubercurrent.  It changed the overt operating assumptions, but it was based on deeper pre-existing assumptions.

Second, "Vote for me, I'm not like him" is not projection.  For the most part, the sequence you laid out, as you described it had nothing to with projection:

Cater was elected because he was NOT a crook like Nixon.  Then Reagan was elected because he was NOT a wimp like Carter.  Then Clinton was elected because he was NOT an economic idiot like Bush.  And then Bush was elected because he was NOT a immoral liberal like Clinton.  Now, some one will get elected because they are NOT an inept war-mongerer like Bush.

Projection is Reagan getting elected because unlike Carter, he'll stand up to the Iranians and others like them, and because he did a deal with the Iranians not to let the hostages go until after the election.

Projection is Bush II getting elected as "a uniter not a divider" and because Gore was such a big liar.  ("Invented the internet," Love Story, Love Canal, etc.)

Third, this dichotomy:

I'm not certain that characterizing it as a "psychosis" is the best analogy (although you make a strong case) because that implies that such can be "cured", or treated - as if it were an organic and natural product of our collective minds.  Perhaps I will be labeled as a conspiracy theorist, but I rather believe that this "sickness" has been promoted (if not created) by the ruling elite - the corporate aristocrats and blue-blood bankers.

not only mis-states my argument (where did I say it was "an organic and natural product of our collective minds"?) but needlessly sets up a misleading either/or framework that impedes systemic understanding.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
What is Dem form of craziness? (0.00 / 0)
I think the "projection" view of right-wing mindsets and psycho-pathology is pretty accurate.  But that doesn't seem to be a very good description of what ails the Dems in DC.  It seems that this DC-Dem disorder is the one that can and should be first targeted by progressives wanting to see the federal government change into a progressive institution that can effectively address our nation's needs and problems.

Whereas the extreme right seems to project its demons onto others, DC Dems are more puzzling to me.  Sometimes they strike me as a mix of longtime abused spouse and desperate, weak, conniving political survivors struggling to play what has become an exhausting, nasty, manipulative, money-grubbing, debasing and overly mass-mediated game of DC politics...maybe with a touch of the addict, with the "fix" being "political victory," which isn't always associated with successful and effective governing.

While this form of pathology doesn't make for good leaders (and we seem to be lacking in these), it strikes me as one that is more "treatable" than the right-wing projection mechanism. But, as with abused spouses and addicts, there's a need to recognize the problem and the need for change.  And this, unfortunately, often requires hitting a solid and often painful bottom of budding self-awareness, and realizing that you have--and that repeating the same mistakes will not work any better the next time around.  My concern is that not too many DC Dems have reached this point.  My bigger concern is that they won't until some really BIG shit hits the fan and millions of citizens get plastered with it.

I'm reminded of the environmental/energy issue, which flared up in the 70s, and opened up a pretty clear path to a sensible energy policy we could have pursued.  Instead, this country elected Ronald Reagan, who charmingly (at least to some) helped usher in the era of "black is white" that has since become a lethal and increasingly psychotic art form. As a result, we've continued to subsidize old, dying and destructive industry sectors (as well as despotic regimes controlling oil-rich lands), and are driving vehicles that are less efficient than they were a few decades ago.

One thing we need and that is emerging via the Internet (OL being one of many examples), is an alternative media infrastructure that can, over time, counter the existing dominant media and the consciousness (or lack thereof) that it breeds.  I put my TV in the closet a few months ago, but last I checked, cable and broadcast news were almost unwatchable in their mix of pettiness, glibness, meanness and duplicity, all jazzed up with the idiotic and zombifying graphics and fast cuts that Steward and Colbert have done such a good job mocking.


[ Parent ]
You Raise A Very Good Question (0.00 / 0)
About how to describe what the Dems so.  I think it's easier with the Reps because they are driving the process, and deliberately so.  They have a relatively uniform set of behaiors.  The Dems are all over the map in response, but that doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and give up on trying to figure them out.

However, the most immediately useful strategy, which should be applicable across the board, is simply to analyze how they get suckered into a particular mindgame, and how they could have avoided it.  A clearer picture of how the Dems act crazy should come out of carefully analyzing the picture that emerges from specific examples.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
That makes sense... (0.00 / 0)
...to start with real world examples of Dems being "suckered into a particular mindgame" (unfortunately, no shortage there), which can help reduce their frequency and damage...and then, as the number of cases expands, to develop a more wholistic sense of the dynamic, its causes, "cures" and points of leverage.
Thanks for the reply to my comment.

BTW, have you gotten any traction on your "battleground district poll and organizing strategy" proposal?  I'm no expert on such things, but it seemed very well thought out and struck me as a potentially very high-return, high-leverage investment of time, money and effort.  But, of course, it does require significant and sustained amounts of such investment, which means it needs to compete with other good ideas out there (of which I assume there are many) for relatively scarce resources and attention.  That being said, I think its worth circulating beyond OL, where things tend to fade chronologically, as is the nature of a blog-based forum.


[ Parent ]
Not Much Traction On The Battleground District Proposal So Far (0.00 / 0)
I need to re-tool it a bit and re-present it to peoplel.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Vote for me because I'm not them (0.00 / 0)
encompasses all the same meaning as your projections - each of which is based on a false distinction created by one side or the other. 

Point being - they are all irrelevant as political arguments. Rather than attempting to further detail each of these meaningless non-existent distinctions, I hoped to provide a slightly condensed version.  Sorry to confuse you.

My comments as to disease being an "organic" phenomenon is, perhaps, derived of my professional back-ground.  With the possible exception of some cancers, most human illness has rather "organic" sources - whether one wants to talk genetics,  infection, or symbiosis, I would contend that each is organic - if not "natural" in a general sense of a living ecosystem of hosts, prey, parasites and predators.

We are not "sick" - we are being beaten.  I don't mean only in elections. We are not "ill" - we have been violently mugged. These projections are not a disease - they are a boot-heel pushing our face into the dirt (thank you, Mr. Orwell).

You want to fix the system now and I'd like to see it crack a bit more.  We haven't gotten to roots - yet.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Let's Be Clear! Blurring Is Very Bad For Analysis (0.00 / 0)
Projection is a very specific psychological mechanism, and should not be confused with any other.  It's hard enough to keep straight what these different defense mechanisms are.

Dichotomizing in general is characteristic of many different mechanisms, as well of thinking that is not best understood as any sort of defense mechanism.  The real problem as I see it with the examples you presented was simply their primative nature, their lack of sufficient sophistication to address what the real challenges were.  And a different sort of cognitive analytic lens is best for discussing this.

As for the beaten/sick dichotomy.  Well, it's another dichotomy, isn't it?  And like I just said about those other dichotomies above, I think it's too simplistic.  The best current social science theories posit both individual attitudinal components and damaging hierarchical social sctructures, whose most harmful impacts are most likely not directly violent (more deprivation, ala poor schools than folks getting beaten with clubs).  The best example, IMHO, is Social Dominance Theory.

In response to this, I think that Robert Fuller's concept of dignity as a human right in order to combat rankism in all forms is our most promising over-all organizing principle.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Dignity (4.00 / 1)
When I first read one of your earlier posts about "dignity for all," my first response was that the term seemed too vague to me.  But as I read and thought more about it, I came to appreciate that this perception of "vagueness" (i.e., "I need you to explain what you're talking about") has the potential to open up a more honest and serious consideration of what the term means and the broad range of issues to which it can be applied. 

In some ways this contrasts with "freedom," which has become so overused and abused that it can tend to prompt knee-jerk and ignorant but very deep-seated intepretations that can tend to block communication and trigger distorted cognition and emotion.

I began to appreciate the term "dignity" as a potentially potent ice-breaker (or mind-logjam breaker), that might help trigger genuine dialog at a relatively human and honest level.  Part of the reason, I think, is that the experience of mutual dignity is a key element of real dialog, which means that the discussion of its meaning can occur in tandem with the practical experience of it in the course of that discussion....sort of learning by doing, if you will.

And, as you explained in your posts, the meaning of dignity is, in fact, closely tied to fundamental political, economic and social issues and questions we face as a nation.


[ Parent ]
Illness/Beating is not a dichotomy (0.00 / 0)
From Merriam- Webster:

Main Entry: di·chot·o·my
Pronunciation: dI-'kä-t&-mE also d&-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -mies
Etymology: Greek dichotomia, from dichotomos
1 : a division into two especially mutually exclusive or contradictory groups or entities ; also : the process or practice of making such a division
2 : the phase of the moon or an inferior planet in which half its disk appears illuminated
3 a : BIFURCATION; especially : repeated bifurcation (as of a plant's stem) b : a system of branching in which the main axis forks repeatedly into two branches c : branching of an ancestral line into two equal diverging branches
4 : something with seemingly contradictory qualities

So your dismissal of my post as such has no basis.

Viewing the problem as an illness is mis-leading because it leaves the impression that all "will pass" and can be "cured".  When you buy into that view, you necessarily limit yourself with respect to possible solutions.  That is my point.  Your rhetoric limits your view. 

For all the "sophistication" and "specificity" of your sickness analogy - I don't see you coming any closer to understanding what the "real challenges" are or were.

In fact, I'm beginning to feel as though you might have a touch of the PKB "disease" yourself.  As I read through some of your other comments on this topic you seem to suggest that, while Democrats and Republicans BOTH engage in this particular form of "mental illness", somehow Republicans are BETTER at it.  Somehow, Democrats are slightly LESS crazy than Republicans - which, simplistic as it may sound to your ears (or appear to your eyes, as the case may be), is yet another variation on the "Vote for me because I'm not them theme" - this time cast as, "vote for us because we are quite as crazy as our opponents".


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
I'm Utterly Baffled! (0.00 / 0)
I'm fully aware of the meaning of "dichotomy."  I'm utterly baggled as to why you think that presenting a definition of it constitutes a refutation of what I'm saying.

But I'm just as baffled at why you would write:

Viewing the problem as an illness is mis-leading because it leaves the impression that all "will pass" and can be "cured".

Illnesses don't necessarily pass.  Some are chronic. Some last a lifetime. Some even kill you.

When you buy into that view, you necessarily limit yourself with respect to possible solutions.  That is my point.  Your rhetoric limits your view.

It's your limitations that you are reading into this, from start to finish.  The only reference I made to illness per se was implicit, in speaking of "insanity."  But I never said that this meant people were suffering from an organic illness.  You were the one who introduced the terms, not me.  It's well known that trauma is a common cause of mental illness, so all your yammering on about being sick vs. being beaten was not only a misleading dichotomy, it was one that was entirely from you, not me.

Standing back a bit, it seems to me that you are simply trying to hijack this thread for your own purposes, but that rather than just jumping in and doing it up front, you've decided to try to be sneaky about it, and insinuate yourself into the discussion as if we were talking about the same thing--except, of course, that you immediately change all the terms.

Thus, instead of projection, we're now talking about "Vote for me because I'm not them," which is a lame reason, to be sure, but hardly a sign of mental illness.  And instead of talking about mental illness, we're talking about your preconceptions about the nature of physical disease, and its cognitive entailments.

If you want us to vote for Ralph Nader, why don't you just come out and say it?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Welcome to Club Baffled (0.00 / 0)
What took you so long?

I've been here ever since I first read an exchange between yourself and another with whom you do not agree.

I'm baffled why you so easily abandon the clear logic and insight that so often characterize your initial analyses and enter a semantic cul-du-sac when the discussion leads into areas that you find less familiar and comfortable.

Assign whatever motive you may to my actions, but rest assured, they are based simply on my trying to learn something about this political process in which are all involved.  I'm an experimentalist at heart, so I'm also gauging how various groups and individuals respond when cajoled, or confronted.

As for Nader, I've said elsewhere that he got my vote in 2004 - as a protest - a form of abstaining, or "none of the above".  But, I acknowledge that gesture is quite weak, too.  Nader is a product of the same system as those he rails against - he plays his role and will not go beyond it.  I wish he had the conviction to openly state that he seeks to split the Democratic Party and force a larger political rearrangement. (an element of which I sense on this site as well, perhaps not in this particular thread, or yourself) But, he won't go that far - even though many of his actions appear to move in that direction. 

Is it a good idea?  I'm not certain.

I wish I could get a sense that the "progressive", "netroots", wing of the Democratic Party had the confidence in their positions and their organizing skills to accept such a challenge from the "Naderites".  To realize that such reformation might just jump-start their efforts to re-direct the Party. But I don't.

I'm sorry if my zeal to understand what and how this particular corner of our electoral system is all about has upset you.  It is not my intention to provoke anger.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Confusion Begets Confusion (0.00 / 0)
I'm baffled why you so easily abandon the clear logic and insight that so often characterize your initial analyses and enter a semantic cul-du-sac when the discussion leads into areas that you find less familiar and comfortable.

Assign whatever motive you may to my actions, but rest assured, they are based simply on my trying to learn something about this political process in which are all involved.  I'm an experimentalist at heart, so I'm also gauging how various groups and individuals respond when cajoled, or confronted.

When you confront people with incoherent arguments, the results you get may well say more about your arguments than they do about anything else.

As I already noted, you were the one who introduced--via assertion--distinctions, and claims about consequences that were entirely foreign to my argument.  Rather than develop your own perspective in a straightforward manner, you attempted to insinuate it into my own.  And that is what I had a problem with.  Your assumption that your steering the discussion "into areas that you find less familiar and comfortable," presumes a clarity of presentation on your part which is simply not there.

To the extent that I could guess what you were trying to talk about, it was definitely not less familiar to me.  I read The Power Elite as a teenager, and have read William Domhoff for almost 40 years.  I have no problem discussing the role of unelected anti-democratic elites in perpetuating the sorts of phenomena discussed.  But I do have a problem with doing so simplistically, for example, by assigning all the blame to them, and none to vagaries of human nature and the constraints of history, and current power relations. My initial attempt to make this point met with outright rejection by you, which pretty much put the kibosh on anything further.

As for Nader, I've said elsewhere that he got my vote in 2004 - as a protest - a form of abstaining, or "none of the above".  But, I acknowledge that gesture is quite weak, too.  Nader is a product of the same system as those he rails against - he plays his role and will not go beyond it.  I wish he had the conviction to openly state that he seeks to split the Democratic Party and force a larger political rearrangement.

Ah, well.  The truth is out.  You live in total delusion land, since the only plausible result of such an effort, should it somehow manage to succeed, would be another 20 years or so of Republican rule, at a minimum.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
the insanity is bleeding into everything (0.00 / 0)
Here in Michigan, the government will likely shut down until the Democratic house /governor and Republican Senate can agree on a budget deal.  Both sides convinced they are right.  Of course, as a Democrat, I blame the republican senate for refusing to budge on compromise and consider them more insane but, to me anyway, points out the general dyfunctionality that conservatism has brought about.  The GOP cut taxes year after year to almost no benefit to the state, MI has the highest unemployment rate, one of the highest foreclosure rates and various other huge economic issues and tax cuts haven't been the magic elixer on any of them.  Not to say that tax money can fix everything.  But the failure of MI's government to factually review data and come to reasonable policies speak volumes about how the repetitive and constant blurring of the truth by the conservatives to win their arguments at all costs is sinking the entire ship of state. 
And then look at the subprime lending mess, that is insanity of a whole other level.  The willful belief that no regulations are needed and nothing could go wrong and this will work themselves out.  Insane.

But on your point of mass mental aid, what I've seen for years coming from Republicans is that everyone can get rich, that, for the most part, everyone can win the lottery.  and not just win economically but win at everything including war, always.  And this is, to me a deeply disturbing viewpoint.  One of our neighbors, who are Republicans, and we get along well say this of the war, to withdraw is to lose, like the French they just want us to lose the war.  Man, when someone has a viewpoint like that, it's like drilling through concrete with a pencil.  So to save my own sanity, I don't engage them on the subject of the war.  But this is probably where Paul would disagree.  I say no, I seek out like minded individuals where ever I go and instill upon them the importance of voting, and Democratic at that.  Once we have a true progressive majority we can start to dillute the insanity that the extremist right has been "projecting" for years.


The Situation Is Not Monolithic (4.00 / 1)
Would you be wasting your time with someone who still thinks the war can be won?  Yes.  Does that mean you can't/shouldn't ever confront the insanity directly? No.

Is it more productive to spend more time as you say:

I seek out like minded individuals where ever I go and instill upon them the importance of voting, and Democratic at that.

Yes.

But the problem with only doing that is the sort of ongoing frustration of going the wrong direction on Iraq, then capped off by the MoveOn ad insanity.  If Dems in power act like that consistently, with no counter-efforts on our parts, then all your recruiting efforts are likely to be in vain--or at least far less effective than they ought to be.

That's reason number two why I say we can't wait until we're in power.

Reason number one is that if we had started doing this back during the Clinton impeachment, we never would have had Bush as President in the first place.

Let me be clear: our frontline targets are not folks like your neighbor.  They are our own party leadership, they are the media, they are opinion leaders in whatever capacity.

So yes, save you sanity.  Don't go at it with your neighbor over the Iraq War. But take it up with other people in other ways.  Maybe with him just use a mantra talking about state government, "You get what you pay for," or something similarly folksy and undeniable.

As for what you say about state government in Michigan, that's true pretty much everywhere, I'm afraid.  Why else do bridges collapse and levees break?

It sure ain't them welfare moms and tax-and-spend liberals what did it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Excellent analysis (4.00 / 1)
and this helps me get my mind around exactly what is going on here. I've been grappling with the nonsense of the Democrat's recent actions, and your explanation really makes sense.
The big question is how to fix it, and and is that possible?

It's Possible To Fix (4.00 / 1)
History shows this.  Madness does pass.  But not without a lot of hard work.  The Alien and Sedition Acts were an early example in our history.

The first thing everyone can do is become more informed and aware about how these mechanisms of madness work.  A good place to start is to read Agre's whole 30,000 word piece--in chunks, so you have time t mull it over, reflect on it, make your connections.

As you assimilate this information, you'll be able to do your own analysis of things happening right in front of you, and then you can point out what's happening to others, and once they realize you're onto something, you can point them to Agre's piece as well.  Just like I'm doing now with you.

As more people assimilate a basic understanding of what's going on, we will be in a position to start doing more.  But basic knowledge is an irreplaceable foundation.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Madness can be overcome (4.00 / 1)
The Alien and Sedition Acts were actively opposed.  If I remember my history, Jefferson used several friendly state governments to dispute them (the Kentucky Resolution comes to mind).  More importantly, Jefferson analyzed what he needed to win and did it (taking Burr on to win New York state). 

The price of overcoming madness varies.  If madness is entrenched it will fight like hell to hold its grip.  The butcher bill to defeat Hitler was enormous (but worth it).  The butcher bill to end slavery and save the union was 626,000 dead in a country of a little more than thirty million (equivalent to losing the city of San Francisco within the population of California). 

The corrollary of that has to be that the sooner we fight and control madness the smaller the bill.  Republicans have had a bad history of trying to fight wars "on the cheap" (Iran coup in 1953, Afghanistan arming of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, a coup in Nicaragua in the 50s that led to the problems of the 80s, arming Saddam to fight Iran, using tribal warlords rather than US troops to finish off Osama).  Strangely, the one piece that haunts me is US support of Pol Pot after he achieved power to placate China and to bedevil the (North) Vietnamese. 

Fight, fight against the dying of the day and the awful fall of night.


[ Parent ]
Great Post (4.00 / 1)
Thanks for pulling all this information together in a clear analysis.

Essential to the Right being able to sustain their insane narrative has been their ability to control and dominate the mainstream media and shape the "conventional wisdom" (while pretending that it is all controlled by the wicked "liberal media"). Without the Right-wing noise machine echoing their nonsense, rational and sane people using logic and facts would quickly debunk their propaganda.

I hope that as we challenge Fox News, the WSJ editorial page, the Washington Times, conservative pundits, hate talk radio and all the other pieces of the Right-wing noise machine, their ability to baffle and mesmerize the American people will decrease.

Overturning the 1996 Telecommunications Act, restoring the Fairness Doctrine, preserving network neutrality, and appointing commissioners who care about the public to the FCC would really help. We also need to build up the blogosphere and progressive media so that they don't dominate the conversation.


How many lives has this cat got? (0.00 / 0)
Historically the cure for an insane slide into unreality in our polity has been catastrophe. Think Civil War (near dissolution), Great Depression (collapsing international capitalism). 

Collapsing ecosystem? Nuclear war? Not happy thoughts.

Can it happen here?


Cognitive dissonance (4.00 / 2)
I mentioned cognitive dissonance in a reply above, but think it's much more virulent and deep than just the current fad for military-worship. We are in a time of truly mind-blowing change. That is inevitable because of technology as well as demographic and economic shifts. We have not begun to see the ultimate societal changes that the computer/communications revolution will bring.

It is not surprising that one strong reaction to that is to cling to old "verities", from creationism to nativism to "free market"/capitalist ideology, and defend them mindlessly and desperately. This is most pervasive and obvious, and more truly insane, on the right, but the Dems/liberals react with much the same blind rote behavior. Hence the MoveOn cravenness, which seems to me more and more shameful the more I think about it. You and Agre make an excellent point about the habit of reacting to words instead of to the idea they are supposed to represent.

If we want to point to cultural influences that drive us crazy, I think our advertising-drenched environment has to take the number-1 spot. Advertising by its nature consists almost entirely of lies that sell products precisely by attacking weaknesses in the sense of self. Political propaganda is simply an application of advertising and marketing techniques, which our all-pervasive infosphere empowers to radically new levels. I suspect that that is why books about "motivation", executive leadership, and "success", which are all just rehashes of salesmanship manuals, remain constantly on the bestseller lists. The process makes a feedback loop in that the more self identity is perverted and the more obviously upside-down "logic" becomes, the more urgently people seek relief in the nostrums offered by marketing, whether commercial or political.

I remember a sociology book from the 70s, maybe, that stunned me with the insight that the more prophesy fails, the more fanatically its adherents believe in its truth. That is what is happening today on both sides of the political divide. For the Dems/liberals, that means pathetically clinging to the Clinton years as an ironclad path the "success", for example, or their habit of succumbing to hysterical fear of ever challenging cliches that no longer have any meaning at all. It doesn't matter that real-world results do not support the practical value of either belief.

Well, I could go on but will just say thanks for an intellectually rich piece -- I hope it inspires much thought and futher discussion. Pieces like this bring out my frustration with the format, where posts that deserve extended discussion and thought scroll off to some archived oblivion way before their time. This one deserves better.


No Success Like Failure (0.00 / 0)
I remember a sociology book from the 70s, maybe, that stunned me with the insight that the more prophesy fails, the more fanatically its adherents believe in its truth. That is what is happening today on both sides of the political divide. For the Dems/liberals, that means pathetically clinging to the Clinton years as an ironclad path the "success", for example, or their habit of succumbing to hysterical fear of ever challenging cliches that no longer have any meaning at all. It doesn't matter that real-world results do not support the practical value of either belief.

Bingo! [Re the Clinton Years.]  Perhaps even worse than mental illness is a path toward health that produces "success" that any sane person would shun like the plague.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
well said (0.00 / 0)
DaveW,
I appreciate your comments and share your frustration with so much reliance on the chronological blog format.  It would be nice to have more ability to keep some discussions ongoing--perhaps using some modified software tools.  This could make them more fruitful, and possibly lead to more discussions that turn into ongoing projects.  This was done a number of times here and at MyDD and though I still think some new tools would help, it was fairly effective. 
This makes me wonder if there are any next steps to follow up on the Open Legislation discussions with Sen. Durbin.  Anyone know anything about that?

[ Parent ]
great post! (0.00 / 0)
A joy to read and understand a little bit more about what's going on.  Thanks for the post, and especially your insightful comments!

end the occupation of Iraq

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