request for help (0.00 / 0)

- Mangrove swamps are more valuable than the shrimp farms that often replace them. A new United Nations report has delved into the economic benefits of these and other ecosystems and found that the services they provide are generally very expensive to replace by technological means.

I've recently started eating fish and seafood on a consistent basis after several years of vegetarianism.  I'm having trouble figuring out whether there's a way to eat fish and seafood in a responsible way since I saw the author of Oceans on Colbert.  I've looked through the diffeerent sites, I read labels when I can, I even ask at at delis and when I overcome my shyness will at restaurants at well.  However, I still find it almost impossible, because I'm not clear on what the situation is.  Can someone help?

What I'm going on is:

line or pole caught is better and trawling is really destructive.
farming is better than catching?
local is better than nonlocal?
freshwater (yuck) is better than sea.

Are these correct?  Is there a way to actually do this effectively (e.g. here in London, the supermarkets actually label the place of origin and the method of caqtching sometimes, but then i don't want to support supermarkets and chain stores)?  Are there things i can get involved in without TOO much time commitment to learn and maybe help (esp if you're in Britain/Europe)?

Thanks!

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by: dr anonymous @ Sun Nov 15, 2009 at 13:18:07 PM UTC

Monterrey Bay Aquarium's website is really valuable here: (0.00 / 0)

http://www.montereybayaquarium...
but it does tend to be US focused.
I heard the author of Oceans on NPR, and I found her quite affecting as well. She emphasized that tilapia was a fabulous choice, and you can certainly go to town on squid, since squid is what will take over the ocean once everything else is depleted.  

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by: sb @ Sun Nov 15, 2009 at 13:39:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

squid!? (4.00 / 1)

i love squid.  problem (partially solved?) :)

thanks for the tips.  I've been to the MB aquarium site and most others on the Internet that focus on this, but the disconnect between what's provided on the Internet and what you have to do in day to day life is too great for me to deal with without more information that's specific to my particular life circumstances.  Essentially what you've said about squid is exactly the kind of information I'm looking for (thank you again!).  I think it might be helpful both for me and others if there are any sites of dialogue among people actively concerned with these issues to converse - know of any (online or offline)?

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by: dr anonymous @ Sun Nov 15, 2009 at 14:05:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Lower on the food chain is better. (0.00 / 0)

For example, it's less harmful to eat sardines (the mice of the ocean) than tuna (an apex predator).

Montani semper liberi

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by: Sadie Baker @ Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 14:49:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

right (0.00 / 0)

if only there were sardine steak...

the tuna here seems to come from far away (like the maldives) whereas the salmon comes from norway or scotland, but i don't know if farmed salmon from those places is supposed to be okay or not.

anyway, i had deep fried squid yesterday nighta nnd am paying for it now. :)

btw, anyone who hasn't seen it, i highly recommend Food Inc. It's an excellent expose of a movie that's highly informative, shocking, but not hyperbolic or annoyingly polemical in tone (which allows the polemical substance to get through).  it features a lot of human faces, whistleblowers, contrarians, etc.

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by: dr anonymous @ Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 15:34:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

request for help (0.00 / 0)

- Mangrove swamps are more valuable than the shrimp farms that often replace them. A new United Nations report has delved into the economic benefits of these and other ecosystems and found that the services they provide are generally very expensive to replace by technological means.

I've recently started eating fish and seafood on a consistent basis after several years of vegetarianism.  I'm having trouble figuring out whether there's a way to eat fish and seafood in a responsible way since I saw the author of Oceans on Colbert.  I've looked through the diffeerent sites, I read labels when I can, I even ask at at delis and when I overcome my shyness will at restaurants at well.  However, I still find it almost impossible, because I'm not clear on what the situation is.  Can someone help?

What I'm going on is:

line or pole caught is better and trawling is really destructive.
farming is better than catching?
local is better than nonlocal?
freshwater (yuck) is better than sea.

Are these correct?  Is there a way to actually do this effectively (e.g. here in London, the supermarkets actually label the place of origin and the method of caqtching sometimes, but then i don't want to support supermarkets and chain stores)?  Are there things i can get involved in without TOO much time commitment to learn and maybe help (esp if you're in Britain/Europe)?

Thanks!

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by: dr anonymous @ Sun Nov 15, 2009 at 13:18:16 PM UTC

The economic news is very, very bad (4.00 / 2)

caused by lousy GOP policies and so far uninterrupted by lousy Democratic policies.  For people who think there's no worry because a recovery is around the corner, I think they're kidding themselves.  Here's why:

What would it take to get back to 5% unemployment? I played with the spreadsheet and came up with the following numbers, which get us below 5% by 2020. I assume no recessions for the next ten years, and 2 million new jobs a year after 2011, which I start off with almost 1.5 million jobs. Of course, we have never done that, but let's be optimistic.

You can read the entire analysis here, but basically even though we don't seem to have any idea where new jobs will come from, we're going to have to create more of them for a longer period than we've ever done to get unemployment down to a respectable level.  When, of course, so far the only "jobs" program we really have is an extension of unemployment benefits that came too late and a "summit".  

Beyond anything else, the deteriorating economic conditions are the number one political issue in the country.  Yet, neither party has any kind of meaningful plan to fix it (at least at the leadership levels).  It's been a complete FAIL of our elite.  And that, IMO, is what is going to drive the dynamics of American politics for the next decade.  

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by: BDB @ Sun Nov 15, 2009 at 13:27:48 PM UTC

Michigan Answer (0.00 / 0)

Recently the governor of Michigan stated that there would be 40,000 new jobs created by Green Energy in the next 10yrs.  How's that for a Democrat answer to the problem?

I will go down to the gas station and fill up my car with.....windpower?  This has been a complete fail of the "highly educated elete."  I would rather put my efforts behind electing the next plumber running for congress.

Conservative......CNN news:Nopenhagen: US PRES 2 WKS LATE ATTEND 1 DAY, GORE JOURNEY BY TRAIN.

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by: Money Man @ Sun Nov 15, 2009 at 14:38:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Actually (4.00 / 3)

You could power your car with wind energy (Denmark already gets 20% of its power from wind and has started using it to power cars).  In fact, if we wanted to - meaning if we were willing to put our resources into saving ourselves and our planet and not in Goldman Sacks bonuses - we could move the entire world to renewable energy as quickly as 2030 (which would create lots of jobs and be a big step in cleaning up the planet).  

As with so many things, the problem is not the ability, it is the political will to buck both parties' corporate overlords.

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by: BDB @ Sun Nov 15, 2009 at 20:55:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh Denmark (0.00 / 0)

During WWII Denmark and the other scandinavian countries powered their cars with methane.  The pictures of the period show their cars with large gas bag collectors attached to their roofs.

The Goldman Sacks (as in sacking the economy) debacle comes from the saying by the Bush administration that the industry was too large to fail.  That's a crock.  We would have been out of the problems there if it had failed.  Also, bonuses were permitted by Chris Dodd, Democrat presidental contender, would never have taken place.  Only the most moronic could have gone along with his explanation of how the bonuses remained in the bail out.    

In renewable energy, the automotive section of Wal-Mart sells a variety of synthetic motor oils.  The Nazis in WWII ran a war on synthetic fuels.  We have the technology today and can use the vehicles that we currently drive.  As far a pollution is concerned, if drilling for oil caused a lot of it, the State of Oklahoma would probably be uninhabitated.  

I do think we need to keep cleaning up the environment.  We have made good progress over the last 30-50years and should continue to do so.  

As you say, "It's political will."  We have practical answers in front of us now.  We will not have to endure a period of privation or failing economy due to lack of energy or pollution control.

Conservative......CNN news:Nopenhagen: US PRES 2 WKS LATE ATTEND 1 DAY, GORE JOURNEY BY TRAIN.

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by: Money Man @ Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 04:24:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

wow (4.00 / 4)

I will go down to the gas station and fill up my car with.....windpower?

you know energy isn't destroyed as soon as it's created

there are things that store it, so you can use it later

you can also transfer it in places different than the one that it was created and consume it there

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by: The Big Hurt @ Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 00:08:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm sorry (0.00 / 0)

My sarcasm overrides my logical thinking.  I was trying to say that we don't need to wait on the green jobs that the Obama administration is talking about.  They are or seem to be in bed with GE which is one of the largest manufacturers of wind turbines.  Another point I was trying to make was that we need answers now that we can work with not promises.

Conservative......CNN news:Nopenhagen: US PRES 2 WKS LATE ATTEND 1 DAY, GORE JOURNEY BY TRAIN.

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by: Money Man @ Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 04:30:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Filling the tank with windpower? (0.00 / 0)

The guys at stranded wind (strandedwind.org) can tell you how.

Use the wind to make electricity, use the electricity to make ammonia through the Haber-Bosch process. Ammonia runs in standard ICEs with minor modifications to the fuel system, and has decent energy density compared to gasoline.

Haber-Bosch does use water, but there's no carbon in this cycle at all.

You allude above to using Fischer-Tropsch to make synfuel. This should be considered a last resort since the usual substrate for Fischer-Tropsch is coal -- it's just another way of burning fossil hydrocarbons and rendering the planet uninhabitable.

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by: cenobite @ Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 18:10:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No (4.00 / 1)

One of the things about electric vehicles is that you don't have to go to the gas station to fill them up. Just plug 'em in while they're parked. So, IF and WHEN non-fossil fuel-derived electricity is available you can fill up your car with windpower. Right at home.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 15:27:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]