Bart Stupak Lied at Midnight Friday and then He Lied All Day Saturday

by: debcoop

Mon Nov 16, 2009 at 18:45


If Bart Stupak was Pinocchio, his nose would just keep growing and growing.

Right after midnight on Friday November 6th,  Bart Stupak began his testimony to the House Rules Committee.  The (be)witching hour.  Less than 24 hours later the vote began on his amendment.  Not much time to understand his amendment.  

It was a bait and switch.  There had been an earlier amendment whose language had circulated.  It prohibited the use of federal dollars, i.e. federal subsidies, in only the public option, not the newly created exchanges. The new amendment did much more.  It extended the prohibition to the exchanges. By doing that,  it will in short order,  2-3 years after the exhanges begin operating, eliminate almost ALL insurance coverage for abortion.  

Rep. Bart Stupak lied in his testimony. When he lied in his testimony before the Rules Committee. Therefore he lied to those 64 Democratic members who voted for the Stupak-Pitts-Kaptur-Dahlkemper amendment. Some of them are having buyer's remorse. It should be further inflamed by this. They were sold a dishonest bill of goods by Rep Stupak.  How did he do that? Let us count the ways.

debcoop :: Bart Stupak Lied at Midnight Friday and then He Lied All Day Saturday
 These words are my transcriptions from listening to his testimony over and over (oh vey!)

"This amendment does one very simple thing.  It applies the current law,  the Hyde amendment, which bars federal funding for abortion except for rape, incest and the life of the mother.  The Hyde amendment has been the law of the land since 1977.  A it appies to all federally funded programs from S-chip, Medicare (really Medicare), Medicaid, Indian Health, Vetreans Health, Military and Federal Health Benefit Progam ( for all federal employees)

You are all familiar with as are all our prolife mebers and what this amendment seeks to do,
WE WISH TO MAINTAIN CURRENT LAW WHICH says no public funding for abortion"

Does his amendment do one simple thing --maintain the Hyde amendment?
Does this maintain current law?

The answer is NO and Bart Stupak knew that it went much further than Hyde. He knew  that even as he proposed it

Henry Hyde's amendment is unethical and vindictive.. It was initially targeted at the weakest and most vulnerable among us.  Poor women whose lives would only be further blighted by the vicious provision.

Hyde should be repealed...but repealing Hyde  would not eliminate it from the Health Reform Act.  Hyde is a  restriction on the federal budget which must be reauthorized each year.  The Stupak amendment would be a continuing  provision in the health care reform bill.  Repealing Hyde would still leave it intact.

The Stupak amendment is broader and deeper than Hyde.  It has very long tentacles and would pull the entire health insurance market into its vortex.  

Bart Stupak made claims that he knew couldn't really be true.  He put phantom provsions into his amendment which could not happen.

First:  

No funds authorized or appropriated by the Act (or amendment made by this Act) may be used to pay for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion,

Then

http://documents.nytimes.com/t...

(c) OPTION TO OFFER SUPPLEMENTAL COVERAGE OR PLAN -
Notwithstanding section 303(b), nothing in this section shall restrict any nonfederal QHBP offering entity from offering separat supplementa coverage for abortions for which funding is prohibited under this section, or a plan that includes such abortions, so long as-
(1) premiums for such separate supplemental coverage or plan are paid for entirele with funds not authorized or appropriated by this Act;
(2) administrative costs and all services offered through such supplemental coverage or plan are paid for using only premiums collected for such coverage or plan; and
(3) any nonfederal QHBP offering entity that offers an Exchange-participating health benefits plan that includes coverage for abortions for which funding is prohibited under this section also offers an Exchange-participating health benefits plan that is identical in every respect except that it does not cover abortions for which funding is prohibited under this section

The principle here is simple: Follow the Money
Another Simple Metaphor: The federal money is like a dye which taints the pool....the insurance plan

As long as a plan gets federal subsidies ---and anyone making less than $88,000 a year will be subsidized, then THAT PLAN CAN NOT OFFER ABORTION. At present the 40 million plus uninsured would go into the exchanges.  So would additional millions of people who are now in the private insurance market...the self employed, consultants, solo practitioners from lawyers to real estate agents.

Then there are 2 other parts of the bill which Bart Stupak would have known extended the reach of his amendment to every plan in the exchange.

Guaranteed Issue and Risk Adjustment.  Guaranteed issue means insurance companies must take all applicants...Can't turn you down just because you have subsidy money.  Voila! Every plan in the exchange can't provide abortion coverage.

Risk Adjustment is like NFL profit sharing.  The money gets redistributed to avoid the problems of adverse selection.  Presto chango!  Federal subsidy money goes into every plan.  The end result? NO PLAN IN THE EXCHANGES CAN PROVIDE ABORTION COVERAGE.

When Bart Supak offered this amendment he knew all this.  He knew that provison (b) and (c) of his amendment were fundamentally  impossible from  the first day the exchanges would begin operation.  Insurance companies would know that too.  They would not offer such plans because they could not.  

His entire principle is that federal money taints the pool.  He rejected the Capps amendment because it has a mechanism for keeping federal money separate from private money.  To him all money is fungible.  Funny I bet that neither he nor the Catholic Bishops would apply that to the Church.  The Church that gets taxpayer funds for charitable work and its hospitals.  The church pays no taxes and it keeps this IRS status despite the fungibilbilty of money. Apply Bart Stupak's and the Church's own theory to itself,  then the Church either has to give up federal funds or lose its IRS status.  

Representative Diana De Gette on what happened Saturday after the midnight Rules Committee.  

From the Paul Rosenberg interview with Open Left.  Rep De Gette, co chair of the women's Pro Choice caucus describes confusion on the parts of some Members as a result of the misdirection and lies by Bart Stupak

http://openleft.com/diary/1603...


I think a couple of things happened.  Number one, a lot of people did not realize that this wasn't just Hyde, because Congressman Stupak unto this day keeps saying he's just putting Hyde in there. But this is unprecedented, because now it says people with their own money-either in the exchange or the public option--cannot buy insurance policies that buy abortion. So that's a expansion.

Hyde says that no federal funding.  Somehow he thinks that if there's public money and private money, that then the private money's tainted by the public money. So, that's not in current law.  

Open Left: So do you believe that that confusion is what accounts for the margin that he was able to win on?

Congresswoman DeGette: Absolutely. Absolutely.  No question about it,  Because I had quite a few people say to me 'This is just Hyde.' And I was running around... Most people found out about this on Saturday morning, when they got there, because the decision was made late Friday night, and I was literally running around, trying to tell people what it did.

At the same time, a lot of people were being pressured by their bishops, which, you know, that's a whole different thing.  So they thought, 'Well if this is just Hyde, then no big deal.' But I had several people after that vote say to me... people who voted for Stupak, they said, 'This needs to be fixed by the conference.'

And we have several people who have 100% pro-choce voting records who voted for it.

Congress has been authorizing the Hyde Amendment in its annual budget every year since 1977.  Lots of them just thought they were voting for the usual,  pro forma vote for Hyde.  That doesn't excuse them.

Pressure must be brought on those Members to make it clear to their constituents and the public that they don't support Bart Stupak's attempt to sneak in the biggest blow to the reproductive right of women since Roe via the back door.

This is what happens when you give up fighting for fundamental principles. Ignore the symptoms, neglect the signs, think everything is going to be okay because we have  someone who campaigned as prochoice become President.  Sit quiet and be good girls.  It becomes a cancer that kills.

For more than 30 years national pro choice groups never entered the arena on this fight.  So over time Hyde expanded its ugly tentacles from the initial Medicaid prohibition to Medicare, military, veterans programs, federal employees and now soon it will be almost all women. National groups endorsed candiates who were for the Hyde amendment. what could they expect?

So Bart Stupak fooled them into believing it was just Hyde...no biggie...why not get some brownie points with the anti choicers... it's so third way, it's so now

It's a very big deal indeed.

Watch Bart mislead, misdirect aka lie.

 


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In the end, however (4.00 / 2)
thisw language isn't going to survive conference committee.  Leadership doesn't want it, it will probably endanger the bill in the conference floor vote in the House, and it seems like people legitimately ARE mad at Stupak.  

And at least we've sussed out the rats.  Enjoy your phyrric victory, bart.  


If they ever do a second edition of Franken's (4.00 / 4)
Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, they should do a section on Stupak.

Well whaddaya know. (4.00 / 4)
A forced childbirther told a lie. As Gomer Pyle used to say "surprise, surprise, surprise."

Montani semper liberi

EVEN the Third Way thinks Stupak went too far!! (4.00 / 4)
Ezra Klein of the Washington Post interviews Rachel Laser of Third Way

http://voices.washingtonpost.c...

How does the Stupak amendment fail?

It changes the federal role, for a start. It goes beyond the Hyde amendment, which says that federal funds can't be used for abortion. It effectively causes there to be no abortion coverage in the exchange, which bans you from using private premiums, which is unprecedented.

It also challenges long-standing policies regarding the segregation of funds. Even religious organizations are expected to be reliable in separating federal funds they receive from religious practice and proselytizing. The community service block grant says that religious organizations have to segregate those funds in a separate account from non-federal funds. If you apply the logic of the Stupak amendment, this system fails.

In fact, the logic of the Stupak-Pitts amendment not only rejects the segregation scheme, but also the scheme whereby federal dollars are consistently used to subsidize insurance through the employer tax exclusion, the subsidy for health savings accounts, and flexible spending account. Those programs cover abortions.

The important thing is to make some of the 64 members who voted for Stupak, mistakenly thinking it was somethingelse, make them regret their vote and pubilcly disavow it.

 

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


the true believers (4.00 / 2)
Stupak is a C Street House fanatic. A political ideologue and a crusader for Christ.

Lying is easily rationalized by minds like this because the end always justifies the means.

What makes them particularly dangerous, of course, is there is no reasoning with them. And that is because their convictions are so hard wired into their emotional and psychological reactions to the world around them that reason is merely another tool to sustain the feeling that they are in touch with the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help them God. The irony of lying in the name of truth is always lost on them.

The only possibilty of jolting the Stupaks out of their reverie of self-righteous crusading is a jolt of reality that confronts them eyeball to eyeball with the actual consequences of their holy roller agenda. Let one of their wives, sisters, mothers, daughters etc. become pregnant in a world where abortion is deemed murder. Let one of the women they most love be arrested, charged, indicted, tried, found gulity and sentenced to death row for having an abortion and see how self-righteous they are about their black/white, right/wrong, good/evil world...then.


I'm not sure that would change things for them. (0.00 / 0)
They believe in original sin and they believe Eve (womankind) is the source of it.  

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
A Slow Burning. . . Firestorm (0.00 / 0)
I think the Stupak amendment may have started a slow burning firestorm.

He may have thought he was pulling a fast one because of the sneaky way he thrust it into the bill when no one appeared to be looking.

But I think that because the extraordinary leap in the dark he made was unchecked by any countervailing pressures, it was so extreme as to evoke slowly but surely a real firestorm of opposition.

The anti-public health care bills in the House and the Senate that will force all Americans to purchase costly insurance from unadulterated corporate predators, when coupled with these harsh new restrictions on abortion coverage, have the nefarious distinction of being the most viscerally harmful policies endorsed by the large majority of our contemptible Congressional representatives since they started misappropriating and spending U.S. taxpayers payments to the Social Security Trust Fund 40 years ago.

If there is one single piece of legislation that has the potential to arouse the tsunami of popular opposition that will be needed to overthrow the plutocracy that is ruining the quality of life in America, this is it.

Nancy Bordier is the author of Re-Inventing Democracy: How U.S. Voters Can Get Control of Government and Restore Popular Sovereignty in America and the inventor of the Interactive Voter Choice System. A synopsis of the book and the invention can be read free online by clicking here.  

   


[ Parent ]
I hope you are right. (0.00 / 0)
I know I have not been this pissed off in a long time.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
the ring of truth [one of them] (4.00 / 1)
Yes, there are always those fanatics who go all the way.

To Hell, hopefully.

But then that's where they insist I'll end up.

If there be a God, He or She must be truly dumbfounded by the right wingnuts. Or, as Frederick pointed out in Hannah and Her Sisters, if Jesus were to come back today and hear what is being said in His name, He would never stop throwing up.

I'm not a believer myself, true, but that does have a ring of truth about it.



[ Parent ]
You nailed it right here (4.00 / 1)
Apply Bart Stupak's and the Church's own theory to itself,  then the Church either has to give up federal funds or lose its IRS status.

Who is actively working to deprive politically oriented churches of their favored tax status?  I want to help.

The Libertarian Party is right now working to find common ground with the Green platform.  I have no reason to expect a repeat of 1860 but the time has never been better for minor parties to fuse or coalesce and stir something up in 2010.


Whats the big fuss (0.00 / 0)
I'll put my views forth as such. I don't care whether people have abortions. People make mistakes and people correct them. I'm not going to get in a debate regarding what is considered life because its an argument that can't be settled. I'm not going to tell you whats right or wrong.

However, why should the government provide funding for abortions? Abortions are not accidents. People consciously decide they want to have unprotected sex. This isn't breaking news that having unprotected sex can lead to pregnancy, the human race has known this for thousands of years. People don't get pregnant magically unless your the mother of Jesus. There are cases of rape and life endangerment for the mother where I could see funding for abortion as legitimate, but in the bulk of cases, its two adults making a decision that they know will have consequences. This isn't about rights, you have the right to an abortion. You have the right to not get pregnant. You have the right to buy condoms. You have the right to morning after pills. I don't see how this is a healthcare issue and I don't see why this should be funded as such (except in the few cases as noted above). We all make mistakes but it doesn't make sense that government should subsidize them.

I'm not commenting specifically on Stupak, just abortion and healthcare in general.


to be or not to be...pregnant (4.00 / 2)
You say:

Abortions are not accidents. People consciously decide they want to have unprotected sex.

I say:

What of women who become pregnant because of a faulty contraceptive device? What of women who choose to become pregnant but are then caught up in a circumstantial landslide that changes their lives dramatically---making pregnancy something they no longer want or, perhaps, can even endure?

I subscribe to Gloria Steinem's premise that if men could become pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. And even though I believe personally that abortion is the killing of a human being, I share your conviction that this can never be resolved.

Viscerally, I react from the perspective that, since I can never experience the ordeal of being forced to give birth, it is not for me to say what those who can experience it must do. Let it be their choice.


[ Parent ]
I object to war..at least some wars (4.00 / 3)

Some people are morally opposed to war.  Some people are morally opposed to meat eating.  Federal money funds many, many things that large numbers of Americans think are immoral.  Should Quakers can tax refunds because they oppose war?  Should you or I?

Should federal funds not be allowed for meat in the school lunch program or on military bases?  

It is the age old argument but that doesn't mean that it doesn't hold water.

You are right; no unwanted fetus is the result of an immaculate conception. The fecklessness you decry is NOT CONFINED TO ONE GENDER. But men while they participate in the frolic THEY don't suffer any of the dangers. Only women's lives, bodies, healths and futures are put in jeopardy by losing reasonable access to abortion.  

It is almost never 2 adults consciously deciding to allow what may be may be.  Birth control fails.  It happened to me.  Bad things go wrong. It happened to me.  Sad things happen to those wanting a child ...like carrying a dead fetus around, no spontaneous abortion (aka miscarriage)  in sight...so an elective abortion must be done. It happened to me.  At no point in time did I ever behave recklessly, carelessly, willfully or like a sexual libertine.  Most women who have had abortions are just like me.

1/3, again,  One Third of all women in America will have an abortion in their lifetime.  Turn to your left, to your right, to someone you know or love who's been silent...that woman has had an abortion for good reasons.

Good reason.  Abortion is not a moral decision for others to make for you. Or legislators to prohibit for you. Abortion is a medical procedure.  Abortion is healthcare....plain and simple.  It should be in this health bill...and Hyde must be repealed.



"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
To further challenge the credibility of Dems who voted for Stupak (4.00 / 1)
The original bills of both House and Senate Finance Committee contained language that would maintain Hyde and the status quo of not using federal funds for abortions.

Pro-choice Dems are claiming they didn't know?!?

Ok, Stupak played a bait and switch - no worse, outright lied. Thank you for this. I hope it makes it to the main stream media.

But nobody had the presence of mind to say, hey, if that's all your amendment is, we don't need it.

An article by Jessica Arons, excerpted below, also contains a chart that compares the House and Senate bills with status quo Hyde language with Stupak's addition.

http://www.americanprogress.or...

Opponents and supporters of abortion rights agreed early on, in theory, to maintain the "status quo" with "abortion neutral" health care legislation. The idea was that health care reform is not the appropriate place to continue the fight over abortion and neither side should attempt to use health care reform as a vehicle to further expand or restrict access to abortion.

In pursuit of this objective, Rep. Lois Capps (D-CA) introduced an amendment in the House Energy and Commerce Committee that attempted to strike a balance and preserve the status quo on abortion funding. This proposal was adopted and ultimately included in the original House bill. The Senate Finance Committee also passed a bill that closely mirrors the Capps Amendment's treatment of abortion funding.



Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905


An additional point (4.00 / 2)
You say:
Hyde should be repealed...but repealing Hyde  would not eliminate it from the Health Reform Act.  Hyde is a  restriction on the federal budget which must be reauthorized each year.  The Stupak amendment would be a continuing  provision in the health care reform bill.  Repealing Hyde would still leave it intact.

Does this mean that even if the Stupak amendment is defeated, Hyde would become a continuing provision?

If so, and I hate to say this, but defeat this health care reform bill over abortion. Demand Hyde language be taken out of it!

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905


Yes Capps reifies Hyde... (4.00 / 1)
maybe a little more

The natinal health care groups were told by this admoinsitration not to fight this this.  That's what Capps was wrtiten for.  They were told by this administration.. We;ll protect you.

After all Barack Obama said fromt eh beginning that Hyde was federal tradition.  Listen to the end of Stupak's testimony.  He quotes Barack Obama. Barack Obama said " no federal funds fo rabortion in this bill:

If just Capps is in this bill, thank Barack Obama, Rahm Emanuel etc.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
This is why. (0.00 / 0)
This is why Democrats eat their young.  To Dems, a win is a win, no matter how you achieve it.  Politics is even better than reality because they lie to each other and know it's a sport.  The public just picks up the bill.

I have no personal pick with abortion.  People will abort their young for many reasons.  I don't believe that I have to pay for it.  I could care less about how the fundamental churchs believe.  As a previous poster said, it is a choice to have sex.  

Conservative......CNN news:Nopenhagen: US PRES 2 WKS LATE ATTEND 1 DAY, GORE JOURNEY BY TRAIN.


You already pay for a lot of stuff you probably don't want to (4.00 / 1)


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905


[ Parent ]
Thank you. (0.00 / 0)
You are very correct, and the future with Obama doesn't look any better!

Conservative......CNN news:Nopenhagen: US PRES 2 WKS LATE ATTEND 1 DAY, GORE JOURNEY BY TRAIN.

[ Parent ]
I'll bet he doesn't . . . (0.00 / 0)
he's one of these rightwing trolls, they don't pay taxes.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Smoking, drinking , eating too much are choices too (4.00 / 4)
They have health care costs associated with them.. I don't smoke, drink too much and I'm skinny. Yet my tax dollars will pay for health care for the heavy, the smoker and the drinker ...and you know what?  That's okay by me.  We're all in this together.


"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
Why do you only target pregnant women? (0.00 / 0)
If somebody chooses to drink in excess and then choosing to drive their car in that impaired condition end up wrapping it around a tree, and as a consequence is becomes quadraplegic, are you willing to spend a few of your tax dollars on taking care of them?

Or the fellow citizens that keep choosing to inhale burning tobacco because it makes them feel good. Are you upset that your tax dollars (or even insurance premiums) might be used to provide them with medical care if and when they get lung cancer?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
This is why I think taking down Stupak is good (4.00 / 2)
even at the cost of electing a Republican. He has become the public face of screwing the party for the agenda of the other party, like Holy Joe. Someone commented that no one who is not from his area - a Gooper I think it was called - could win there. OK, this race may be worth running a spoiler to make a point. As I said elsewhere, we need to be willing to do this, but must do it sparingly, and do it where it makes a statement and/or takes down a powerful committee chair likely to be replaced by someone more progressive.  

Revisionist history (4.00 / 2)
I'm totally against Stupak, and I agree that Stupak lied in presenting his amendment, but the claim that people didn't know what the Stupak amendment did is either false, or represents a level of ignorance and lack of awareness that should clearly disqualify anyone from serving in Congress.

The facts about Stupak were clearly reported repeatedly in the mainstream media (for example here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11... as well as at Open Left and other blogs long before the vote.  I seriously doubt any member of the House really didn't understand what they were voting for, and as I said, it's frightening if they really didn't.

If it's useful to use this "bait and switch" meme to overturn Stupak, I'm all for it, but I think at Open Left we should stick to the truth.  


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