Crossing & double-crossing the authoritarian/non-authoritarian divide

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Dec 05, 2009 at 17:45


This week, I participated in TPM Cafe's book discussion  of Authoritarianism and Polarization in American Politics, which I also wrote about here last weekend.  I was going to write something longer about it this weekend, and I still intend to do that tomorrow, but I want to write something more focused on spurring further discussion in light of Dan's  diary earlier today, Exploiting conservative character flaws and weaknesses.  I want to key of this passage in particular:

Liberals need to understand that the psychological differences they have with conservatives go beyond mere opinions or factual beliefs, but to issues of thinking style, temperament and even core personality traits.  There is ample psychological research that demonstrates that conservatives and liberals are not merely "flip sides of the same coin" like most centre-fetishizing village types believe.  Instead, there are deep asymmetries between the camps, and an awareness of that is vital to finding strategies that accent liberal strengths and exploit conservative weaknesses.

In my view, the problem that progressives face is multi-faceted.  Here are just a few examples:

First of all conservative's authoritarian tendencies predispose them to follow orders.  This makes it relatively easy to organize for fighting--be it physical, political, military or whatever.

Second, the conservative's cognitive strengths and propensities are specifically related to fighting.  Among other things, they tend to see the world in black-and-white terms, and seeing things in black-and-white terms is much more conducive to fighting.

Third, this is reinforced by their value tendencies--their heightened orientation to identify with high-status ingroups and demonize and despise out-groups.  This makes it much easier to organize for mass attacks on whatever target is identified.

Fourth, conservatives tend to experience divergent ideas as well as individuals and groups as a form of existential threat.  In their minds, gay marriage really does threaten to destroy marriage as we know it (and the more marriages they've had, the more threatening this may be, however hypocritical--or even downright silly--it may seem to us.

I could go on, but you get the point.  Conservatives really are wired for fighting, in multiple different ways.  OTOH, liberals are wired for lots of things, too.  We've definitely wired for understanding how stuff works, we're curious, we're interested in exploring what we don't know.  And since we don't know how to fight as well as conservatives do in a hard-wired sense, then why shouldn't we be interested in that?

Plus, of course, we're wired for humor.  It's no accident that Al Franken is a very funny guy--and yet funny with a long history of serious intent.

So how do we make the most of these--and other--liberal strengths?  This is an open thread for discussing your ideas in answer to that question.  I'm going to integrate the results of this discussion into the diary I'm working on for tomorrow.


p.s. One thing Dan said that I disagree with--though in a somewhat subtle way:

Too often over the past number of years, you find liberals lamenting the "circular firing squad" while grudgingly admiring the lock-step conservative façade and wishing to emulate it.  No. No. No.  

I understand what he's saying, and agree with it in a fundamental sense: We need to find ways of acting that are true to our values and cognitive styles and strengths.  That's the main post of his diary, and I agree 100%.  But it's also true that learning how to adapt and use different tools for different jobs--to think situationally--is also a liberal strength.  And so while it's a bad idea to want to be like that all the time, I think it's a good idea to be able to act like that on occassion, when it would be particularly good to do so.  We maybe don't want to be fast-ball pitchers.  But we want to be able to throw one when we need to.

Paul Rosenberg :: Crossing & double-crossing the authoritarian/non-authoritarian divide

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The structural is political (4.00 / 5)
I've mulled over the intersections between psychology and political ideology ever since I read that (in)famous metastudy "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition" back in 2003.

While I think that some people are "wired" with authoritarian/conservative tendencies, I don't see the evidence that it's "hard wired" - the brain, even in later years, is a remarkably malleable and adaptable organ compared with the rest of our bodies.

The connection of authoritarian to conservative personality traits (and anti-authoritarian to liberal/progressive ones) also suggests that how we educate, agitate, and organize is just as important is why and to what end we do so. Teaching left/progressive ideas in an authoritarian manner is needlessly counterproductive (but it's a nice explanation for all the David Horowitzes and Irving Kristols who moved from the hard-left over to the hard-right: they switched politics, but their authoritarianism remained constant.)

Structurally, we should push for progressive organizations and groups to be as anti-authoritarian and democratic in structure as feasible. We should ask: should CAP have the same internal structure as Heritage? Should The Nation have the same internal structure as The Weekly Standard?

We should also be pushing for non-hierarchical democratic decision-making structures in non-ideological organizations like schools and workplaces - not just because they are more humane and equitable (and often more efficient!) ways of working together, but because they lay the foundation for a serious long-term Overton shift.

We've all had our share of unproductive shouting matches with conservatives. Tackling their politics indirectly, through modifying the social relationships around them, has at least in my experience been much more effective than arguing with them head-on.

If one wants to be pithy, one could say that if we want better Democrats, we first need better democrats.

Join the fight to give students a real voice on campus: Forstudentpower.org.


from Brecht's To Posterity (4.00 / 3)
Indeed I live in the dark ages!
A guileless word is an absurdity. A smooth forehead betokens
A hard heart. He who laughs
Has not yet heard
The terrible tidings.

Ah, what an age it is
When to speak of trees is almost a crime
For it is a kind of silence about injustice!
And he who walks calmly across the street,
Is he not out of reach of his friends
In trouble?

. . .

Live out your little time
Fearing no one
Using no violence
Returning good for evil --
Not fulfillment of desire but forgetfulness
Passes for wisdom.
I can do none of this:
Indeed I live in the dark ages!

. . .

You, who shall emerge from the flood
In which we are sinking,
Think --
When you speak of our weaknesses,
Also of the dark time
That brought them forth.

. . .

For we knew only too well:
Even the hatred of squalor
Makes the brow grow stern.
Even anger against injustice
Makes the voice grow harsh. Alas, we
Who wished to lay the foundations of kindness
Could not ourselves be kind.

But you, when at last it comes to pass
That man can help his fellow man,
Do no judge us
Too harshly.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


[ Parent ]
Thanks (0.00 / 0)
I've been looking for that Brecht poem for ages. It's somehow not in my own collection, and I could never seem to google it, maybe because I couldn't remember the title.

This is my lucky day. I recommend the entire poem to everyone, but this passage is particularly, eerily relevant:

Böses mit Gutem vergelten
Seine Wünsche nicht erfüllen, sondern vergessen
Gilt für weise.
Alles das kann ich nicht:
Wirklich, ich lebe in finsteren Zeiten!

To repay evil with good
Not to fulfill one's desires, but to forget them
counts as wisdom.
I can't do any of that
Truly, I live in dark times



[ Parent ]
The Marines have a saying (0.00 / 0)
"It's easier to pull a string than to push it."  This is the philosphy of their leadership.

I wouldn't think authoritarian methods of installing progressive ideas would work well.  Pitching progressive ideas as being more attractive than the alternative, might work better.  

Conservative......CNN news:Nopenhagen: US PRES 2 WKS LATE ATTEND 1 DAY, GORE JOURNEY BY TRAIN.


[ Parent ]
I agree to an extent (4.00 / 1)
But if we want to organise, we do need structures. We do need united fronts. We do need message discipline.

We don't need rigid and inflexible hierarchies. We don't need to suppress internal dissent. We don't need shibboleths and we don't need messiahs. But embracing anti-authoritarianism completely is, to my mind at least, likely to reduce our impact.

We don't need to oppose all authority. We need to make sure we can choose our authorities and that we can replace them when necessary.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
Right (4.00 / 1)
The issue shouldn't be authority, but authoritarianism and illegitimate authority. (See the long-running episodic discussion of rankism on this site.)

When you hold a meeting and you have a parliamentarian to make sure everyone doesn't talk at once and everyone gets a chance to be heard, that's a legitimate authority.  And it doesn't matter if you're using Roberts Rules of Order or a Quaker talking stick.

Same principle applies on the macro scale as well.  More complicated to implement, but the same basic principle holds.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Empirically accurate (4.00 / 1)
But what underlies all this?  To apply a traditional hard Marxist approach, the Republicans are the party of unfettered, naked capitalist interests.  Democrats, on the other hand, are the intermediaries whose task is to soften the harshest features of capitalism and thus chill out the working class.

This is obviously rigid and dogmatic and overly mechanistic.  But it has its kernel truth.  The way progressives are now trying to sell a health care bill which is a straight giveaway to the insurance companies would have Leon Trotsky smiling in his grave.

In any event, this difference in function at least to some degree impacts the temperment of progressives.  In other words, a philosophy that validates egalitarianism is going to attract (and shape) different personalities than a philosophy whose bottom line is submission to power and authority.

Full Court Press!  http://www.openleft.com/showDi...


I found this article persuasive (4.00 / 1)
In the Eye of the Storm: Updating the Economics of Global Turbulence, an Introduction to Robert Brenner's Update

It comes out of a marxist tradition - one that seeks to harness marxism's deep analysis of political economy - without falling into the trap of old-time marxist "religion" that assumed an ever-rising curve of "progress through contradiction" that both inspired people to continue fighting in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds, but also served to justify the most despotic and hypocritical regimes ruling in its name.

Why is our economy so dominated by bubbles and bubble-based thinking?

Money graph:

If this is correct, there is no easy fix for our problems. The blowing of asset bubbles is not an unfortunate side effect of regulatory capture or Wall Street's greed. It was the only way governments could keep economic growth from falling below politically dangerous levels once traditional Keynesian methods of fiscal stimulus through deficit spending were no longer adequate to compensate for the sclerosis at the heart of the advanced capitalist economies: "worsening difficulties with profitability and capital accumulation." Brenner labels this bubble-blowing "stock market Keynesianism" referring to deliberate measures by governments to steer credit into equity markets.

This seems right to me.

It fits into this authoritarian/non-authoritarian mold as well.  It tells us WHY it's been so damned difficult to pass decent health reform.  In fighting bubble-capitalism we are forced to to oppose measures that are or at least had been POPULAR in some sense.  It's so much easier to be consistent as the party of NO.  

I think we need to think about this more and what we're really up against.  If we had such an understanding we might be less vulnerable to mood-swings and less apt to engage in food fights over whether Obama is or isn't "one of us".  No he isn't one of us - but that doesn't necessarily mean that our energies need to be devoted to replacing him with someone who is - that is likely to be a fool's errand.  Instead we need to understand this environment and learn to function within it.  That is why, even though the results of the health care reform fight are not encouraging, the fight itself has been, and has left us in a stronger position to make a more focused fight - if we go about it with intelligence.

I am extremely encouraged, for example, that Jane Hamsher is already taking the next steps in promoting single-payer supporting Democratic challengers, building off the lessons of this fight instead of letting ourselves go down the toilet.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Good Point (4.00 / 1)
Brenner is an excellent analyst, and he's an occasional (too occasional for my tastes) guest on one of the local Pacifica station programs that I listen to regularly, if not religiously (I missed a few minutes last Friday--forgive me father, for I have sinned).

The one thing I'd add to this is that Keynes himself is much closer to Marx analytically than most people realize, even though his philosophical grounding is quite different, and he certainly wanted to save capitalism, rather than destroy it.  But he truly wanted to humanize it--not just for appearances sake--and that meant wrestling control away from the asset-holders, which, among other things, is a radical means for forestalling precisely this stage of "development" we've fallen into.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I had never heard of Brenner (4.00 / 1)
before reading this article but it does make me want to go out and buy his book.

It seems to me that so many of the arguments we see here on Open Left represent a kind of frustrated lashing out at bad actors in government and politics that don't pay enough attention to the questions of hegemony raised here.  If this regime is currently hegemonic, then lashing out at "sellouts" who don't deliver to some extent misses the point.  Unless we are prepared to overthrow the system entirely, such talk is futile.  This is not to argue that we are or even should be prepared to overthrow the system entirely.  We're not, and no path that gets us to that point is at all discernible.  

Therefore it behooves us to be able to understand both the limitations of the current regime and the extent to which it still does represent some sort of advance.  LAST YEAR all we could talk about was ousting Bushism.  THIS YEAR we talk about how far short of the mark current Democratic party thinking and action is.  THAT IS some sort of advance, and we cannot, as some seem to want to do, say that there's no difference worth caring about between the two parties.  Obamaism has, if nothing else, opened the space in which this discussion can occur.  We need to learn the best ways to fight both against our enemies and our "friends" while understanding the difference between the two.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Opportunity? (4.00 / 1)
Pardon me for re-posting this comment and adding on:

I had a rather conservative (although after the disaster of Bush II he calls himself a libertarian) friend of mine email me the link to Flemming's web page where one can sign a on-line petition to support H.R. 615 to force Congresspeople and Senators onto the public option.  I chuckled as I examined the link because it certainly looked like a resolution I would support, and most real progressives in Congress would support.

Both he and I have very similar backgrounds, both engineers, and both rather cynical about DC.  Watching DC bail out Wall St was a horrific experience for both of us.  He readily acknowledges that government, in general, is out to screw the little guy, but for some reason he remains committed to supporting conservatives and conservative ideology.

I remain puzzled by the large amount of people I know who are similar to my friend.  I rationalize much of it as almost all being long time listeners to talking heads like Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly, and disciples of Reaganism.  These talking heads have tapped into a deep seated cynicism with being screwed by large government, but with the perception that the progressives are the one's out to screw them.

I wonder why now is not the opportune time to have a Democratic version of the "Reagan Revolution".  Never has the hypocrisy of screwing the little guy been on more open display in our government.  Why haven't the Democrats come out more strongly for supporting the middle class and wenching power back from the "ruling plutocracy" that has destroyed our country over the last thirty years?  Why aren't we actively recruiting the large amount of people who are not dumb and can plainly see how conservatives have screwed America?

I view my friend as one of a large group of people who are not dumb and fairly well informed.  I think they were conservative because they viewed themselves as "above the little guy", and as such, one of the guys doing the screwing rather  than getting screwed.  I think recent events have put a large dent into their understanding of their place in the world, and that they could be easily convinced to support efforts to "save the middle class."

I agree with reasoning that conservative leaders are not fundamentally like progressive leaders (although I also view politicians as not fundamentally like the rest of us), but must we view even conservative dupes from Kansas in the same light?


Leaders And Followers Are Not The Same (4.00 / 2)
I've said this so many times, I can't believe I just have to keep saying it over and over again, as if I've never said it before.

In fact, this was precisely the terms in which I early on criticized Obama--for confusing the difference between reaching out to voters across party and ideological lines--which was all for the good--and reaching out to politicians, which was nothing but a death wish, so far as effective progressive governance was concerned.

I am, after all, the guy who keeps reminding folks that a majority of self-identified conservatives supports America's welfare state spending.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Good! (0.00 / 0)
Pardon me for missing that.  

How do we grab onto a few million or so followers and get their vote?

Or better yet, how do we jump them past just voting Democratic and turn them into progressives?


[ Parent ]
Just Getting Progressive Dems in Congress (0.00 / 0)
to work together, take some lessons from Lakoff & listen more to the netroots would be a good start.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Yes, (4.00 / 1)
we need to talk to the Ron Paul types in their own language, prevent them from reannealing to the GOP base, and partner with them on issues of mutual interest

1) Peace
2) Crony capitalism
3) Civil liberties

Why not have Dave Sirota et al. go onto libertarian shows carrying the banner of mutual struggle?

The difference between a Progressive and a Libertarian is chiefly in the size of the welfare state, and that can be proven to be an indispensable part of a healthy society (in fact Hobbes did so in the 17th century...)

THe biggest sin of the Progressive movement was spurning the good faith Libertarians and pushing them in the hands of the Glen Beck / Alex Jones "Tea Baggers".

Do what Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson do, reach out to them on issues of mutual concern.


[ Parent ]
re the post script (4.00 / 1)
I can accept that provision and agree with it.  I had in mind the prototypical Dailykos entreaty to just everyone get in line with X and stop attacking policy Y because that's the circular firing squad again etc.  

But of course there are situations where lock step is needed and useful.  I don't think most of the people deploring the divided left are thinking the way you are though, Paul.  Still, point taken.



Agreed (4.00 / 1)
Most aren't.  I'm 100% with your main thrust.

I just wanted to emphasize that we should be thinking in terms of flexibility, situational opportunities, and diversity of strategy and tactics.  And that includes doing like the conservatives from time to time.  If nothing else, to keep them off balance.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
it's called consensus (4.00 / 1)
I think it's a good idea to be able to act like that on occassion, when it would be particularly good to do so.  We maybe don't want to be fast-ball pitchers.  But we want to be able to throw one when we need to.

it's really hard to do quickly (although certain circumstances encourage fast decisions) but i'm a big believer in consensus or, in a pinch, buy-in because i haven't seen the kind of shared mission and direction i think you are describing without it.


Consensus & Communication (0.00 / 0)
I heard some tell about this thing called the intertubes that might just help us out.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
technology can't overcome intention (0.00 / 0)
but that's a subject for another day.

[ Parent ]
This is an important perspective (4.00 / 1)
and it's something I try to keep in mind when analyzing politics and human society in general.

If you tend to identify with many of the views commonly espoused on a website like openleft it's a big mistake to assume "conservatives" view reality more or less the same way you do, just from a different point of view. There are some profound psychological differences. It's not that shades of gray make them uncomfortable, they can't even see the shades of gray. And if you're trying to seek common ground with someone who's totally tuned-in to conflict, you may find yourself at a major disadvantage.  

Also, it's true that many people who identify themselves as "conservative" easily gravitate toward an absolute, either/or perspective, "I'm this, so you must be that". But many people whose consciousness doesn't work that way aren't nearly as quick to self-identify as "liberal" or "progressive" or any other label. Open minds tend not to be interested in group-think. I doubt that someone like say, Steve Jobs or Carl Sagan or George Carlin or Matt Groening would spend much time sitting around thinking "I'm a liberal, I need to get together with all the other people who think like me and fight the damn conservatives". They just do what they do and assume that smart people will get it.  

Luckily, non-authoritarian minds also tend to be more creative. They make things happen, alter the status quo, AND they're good at coming up with solutions, once they know the score.


Focus (4.00 / 2)
It seems to me that the problem with our side isn't necessarily fighting. It is faith. Not in a religious sense, but in the sense of believing in your ideals even when things look darkest. Too many on our side doubt too quickly. They give up because they start thinking too much about how things could possibly go wrong. We forget too readily that possible is not probable. What I saw as a hopeful sign last year was that many in the Democratic party decided to finally believe that things we believe in can win. That's why Obama's win was so powerful. Not necessarily because he's the first black president, but because of the months that preceded it. All of our history and all of the pundits kept reiterating with such uninformed self-evidence that a black man couldn't win. We decided to believe that he could and it happened, even in spite of all the obstacles thrown in the way. That didn't happen in 2004. We decided to follow Kerry based on calculations that he could win, not because we believed in him. We "brilliantly" calculated that a Vietnam War Vet would be able to take down the Pretender in Chief. But we didn't believe in him. We could have gone with Dean because we believed in his message but were too afraid he wouldn't win. And that's what is destroying us right now. Our leadership could choose to believe in the Public Option or even Single Payer and fight for it all the way, but they keep choosing to follow the path they think is "smarter" and "more achievable," but which is really more cowardly. We need to have more courage of faith.

Good comment. (4.00 / 2)
I tend to think of this in terms of authenticity, which was the way Jean Paul Sartre framed it, or rather the larger issue which includes it.  In order to be authentically human, we must openly act as what we really are, and all of our actions, including our political behavior, must be true to the part of what we are which we choose to affirm. Otherwise our activity will be self-defeating, because our actions will not carry the self-investment and conscious efficacy which those which express our aspirational selves can.

[ Parent ]
Very True (0.00 / 0)
This isn't the sort of thing I was thinking of originally, as it isn't obviously inherent in being non-authoritarian--as opposed to being a product of recent history--but it's certainly a huge issue that you've pegged perfectly.  In fact--particularly in light of how Querent expands on it below--it's really an example of us struggling against the situational forces which tend to make non-authoritarians act like authoritarians.  At the most outward level this manifested itself in the astronomical levels of support Bush enjoyed right after 9/11.  But at the most inward level, it manifested just as Querent puts it--as a loss of authenticity--which took most of a decade for us to recover as a party.  Too bad our party leadership has not gotten the message.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Having most of the authoritarians in one political party (0.00 / 0)
has been bad for the GOP. It has also been bad for Democrats. The two party system stops working when all the authoritarians are on one side. Either the GOP loses some authoritarians and the Democrats get a few more, or we can just fold up and watch the two party system collapse. Good ridance.

I'm an anti-authoritarian, but I know there is no getting rid of them. They will always be 20% or so of the population. They must be assimilated, rather than concentrated in one place. They are more dangerous when concentrated.

ec=-8.50 soc=-8.41   (3,967 Watts)


An Interesting Point (0.00 / 0)
As a matter of fact, the child-rearing-based scale from the NES that the authors use paints the majority as authoritarian.  This is not to say that another scale might produce different results, since I certainly agree that Bush/Cheney dead-enders seem significantly different from others who must have scored as authoritarians on the 2008 NES.  But the authors had to use the scale they had, and it clearly yielded significant results, even if it may have been somewhat right-shifted.

So, anyway, by that standard, at least, there are still plenty of authoritarians left in the Dem party, and in fact authoritarianism was a factor that predisposed people to vote for Clinton rather than Obama in the primaries.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
So very, very sleepy... (4.00 / 3)
Today I had to work and was gone all day and most of the evening. It's now 12:56 am, and about an hour ago I finally got a chance to start working my way "up" (oldest to most recent, that is) today's OL front page diaries. This is one I really would have liked to participate in, but at this point I'm too tired to even read the comments. Sadly, goes without saying I won't even make it to read Jeff's "full court press" until tomorrow. Better go ahead and start the Revolution without me - I'll catch up later.

Oh well. Good night. Zzzzzz...


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